CCA Liger banger V3.0

[mrbonsai420]

I'd like to see this design tried. That's how I thought the Hurricane Cap functioned until that vid.

It is. Like I and littlebab have said, the hurricane rotates better on the 20mm. That is my favorite combo. But you're right, a BIG ass one would work even better on the 30mm! It does work with the 30mm but it just works more or less like the storm cell on the 30mm, In fact I prefer the storm cell when I am using the 30mm bucket. The 20mm is where the Hurricane cap really shines!
Check this out.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BMaQ2T9B8a6/?taken-by=mrbonsai710&hl=en

 

[herbivore21]

It is. Like I and littlebab have said, the hurricane rotates better on the 20mm. That is my favorite combo. But you're right, a BIG ass one would work even better on the 30mm! It does work with the 30mm but it just works more or less like the storm cell on the 30mm, In fact I prefer the storm cell when I am using the 30mm bucket. The 20mm is where the Hurricane cap really shines!
Check this out.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BMaQ2T9B8a6/?taken-by=mrbonsai710&hl=en

I'm interested to see the difference in performance on them. I have a 30mm Liger with Sapphire and SiC inserts on the way over soon enough with both carb caps (and the ball dabber). I have to say it has been great to make Josh's aquaintance, his service has been wonderful already! Looking forward to having a chance to check it out and provide my thoughts - the Liger should arrive just in time that I will have practically bottomless full melt for testing

 

[Gonzo_da_wind]

Well guess you all are gunnar have to wait for Josh to release a new version of the carb cap to sell your ideas back to you.

 

[ReeferChiefer]

I spoke to him, linked him to this conversation and he likes the idea.

I wish I had the opportunity to buy a design I actually helped suggest. lol

 

[PoopMachine]

Well guess you all are gunnar have to wait for Josh to release a new version of the carb cap to sell your ideas back to you.

Thats the story of my life.

 

[GSR]

Any rough estimate on when all the pre orders will be shipped out? I keep checking my email in anticipation, but I havent gotten that shipment confirmation yet

 

[LazyIdol]

I was told about a week or two this Monday, I placed my preorder around the 21st I believe.

 

[killick]

I dislike sounding like a total newb (not really, but sometimes I'm surprised by how little I actually know), for example I've been focused on learning as much as I could with my own med supply, which has always been dried flower. I've been a med patient for about 3 years, and before that knew nothing about 'cannabis advances' bigger than the Bic lighter.

So here's my question - given that I have a High Five press on order, with both 16 mm and 20 mm barrel coils, will the 20 mm coil I have work (link below)? Or are there different styles of barrel coils I should be aware of?

Also, and most important, what do I need to ensure I can be up and operational right away, and not missing something key? I'm thinking I'll start with the SiC insert, and can always swap later, but don't want to send in a rambling preorder that shows I really have no idea what I'm after. With the websitesite catalog available makes it trickier, too, in that I'm scrolling around in the thread for photos, instead of linking catalog items to names.

I have a cheapie titanium 20mm nail and carb cap I purchased at a shop that looked like it needed the business, but haven't used any of it yet. Ditto for the charged torch. And a little oil barrel 16 mm male joint watertool. Maybe tomorrow I'll go try not to burn myself too badly, in anticipation of an actual well designed and useable device.

I've learned loads from FC and Youboob, and being new to the area means I don't know anyone who has experience with these things, so you guys are it. Again. And I wouldn't be asking if all y'all haven't steered me the right way all those other times. Thanks

http://www.highfivevape.com/online-shop/coils-heaters

(postscript - in the end I sent a note to CCA asking for a PW before preordering - it just seemed to make sense - thanks for reading along. I wish I could add a 'follow the bouncing hamburger' type of visual to go with it. PS - Chronic Thunder is todays fave strain)

 

[Monsoon]

So here's my question - given that I have a High Five press on order, with both 16 mm and 20 mm barrel coils, will the 20 mm coil I have work (link below)? Or are there different styles of barrel coils I should be aware of?

You're good you just need to order either a 16mm or 20mm compatible version of the Liger, probably the 20mm based on comments so far.

I know you're going with a rosin setup but if you ever want to dabble in BHO or try some variety, check out this post on reddit for mail-order options. It's basically defacto legalization in Canada at the moment! Most shatters are priced in the $30-50 range which makes it competitive with self-production for me anyway. I like making QWET but I also like being able to order 10 different strains at once with 2-day delivery, at least for variety.

------

I just started the pre-order process for the Liger V3 30mm, sapphire insert, sic insert, master and standard dab caps with express shipping. The sapphire basically the price, figure it's going to end up costing me CAN$900-1000 total depending on the exchange rate and whether or not I get billed for taxes. I can afford it but it's still a lot of money so I had to give it some serious thought. I think it's a safe buy at this point though since if I don't like it I should be able to get rid of it easily especially given the Liger's rising prominence, likely the most popular its been since Napoleon Dynamite I did't like the Liger V2 20mm with quartz when I tried it last spring, but I see there's been some conversions already and that surface area looks spectacular!

 

[EpicNameGuy]

I just started the pre-order process for the Liger V3 30mm, sapphire insert, sic insert, master and standard dab caps with express shipping. The sapphire basically the price, figure it's going to end up costing me CAN$900-1000 total depending on the exchange rate and whether or not I get billed for taxes. I can afford it but it's still a lot of money so I had to give it some serious thought. I think it's a safe buy at this point though since if I don't like it I should be able to get rid of it easily especially given the Liger's rising prominence, likely the most popular its been since Napoleon Dynamite I did't like the Liger V2 20mm with quartz when I tried it last spring, but I see there's been some conversions already and that surface area looks spectacular!

Ahhhh, $900-$1000!?!? Congrats to you on the luxury purchase. Hope it works out well. I wouldn't really consider myself someone who is 'strapped' for money as I frequently tend to splurge, but ouch... when I think of spending a grand on a dab surface, as opposed to actual dabs, I can't help but wonder how that could be worth it, especially if its an upgrade and not a first purchase.. if you spent $50 a gram, that's 20 grams. Or, in my use, nearly half a years worth of concentrate.

The day I find a dab surface worth a half-a-years worth of concentrate, I'll youtube myself doing the Macarena and post it on facebook! haha, no really though, closely watching to see the satisfaction levels... I'm sure it's a quality piece, but those prices....

 

[mrbonsai420]

Ahhhh, $900-$1000!?!? Congrats to you on the luxury purchase. Hope it works out well. I wouldn't really consider myself someone who is 'strapped' for money as I frequently tend to splurge, but ouch... when I think of spending a grand on a dab surface, as opposed to actual dabs, I can't help but wonder how that could be worth it, especially if its an upgrade and not a first purchase.. if you spent $50 a gram, that's 20 grams. Or, in my use, nearly half a years worth of concentrate.

The day I find a dab surface worth a half-a-years worth of concentrate, I'll youtube myself doing the Macarena and post it on facebook! haha, no really though, closely watching to see the satisfaction levels... I'm sure it's a quality piece, but those prices....

Haha, it's one of those unnessesary luxuries for connoissuers. I look at it the other way, If I spend thousands in concentrate why wouldn't I spend just as much to enjoy them even more and get more out of them?
That being said sapphire isn't for everyone. The SiC and Quartz inserts would be fine for most people, and most peoples wallets! But a lot of the people that would buy that came from Quave, Pukinbeagle, and other high end quartz that can cost several hundred each. That or the equivalent Halo's which are pretty pricey too!

Most people will be fine with the Sic and/ or quartz insert and the 20mm setup. That won't set you back any more than a good quartz banger.



Ha, I love glass but most people would think I am crazy to drop $160 on this marble yesterday. But I love it!

 

[invertedisdead]

You can spend $1000 on a honey bucket just as easily. A glass collector spends thousands per rig, might as well go all the way. Part of the experience.

 

[ReeferChiefer]

One day I just caught myself being ridiculous. Here I am, willing to splurge $1800+ on glass but complain about a $200 nail...

I'm convinced that investing in accessories is just as important as investing in glass.

 

[alittledabwilldoya']

One day I just caught myself being ridiculous. Here I am, willing to splurge $1800+ on glass but complain about a $200 nail...

I'm convinced that investing in accessories is just as important as investing in glass.

Haha, it's one of those unnessesary luxuries for connoissuers. I look at it the other way, If I spend thousands in concentrate why wouldn't I spend just as much to enjoy them even more and get more out of them?
That being said sapphire isn't for everyone. The SiC and Quartz inserts would be fine for most people, and most peoples wallets! But a lot of the people that would buy that came from Quave, Pukinbeagle, and other high end quartz that can cost several hundred each. That or the equivalent Halo's which are pretty pricey too!

Most people will be fine with the Sic and/ or quartz insert and the 20mm setup. That won't set you back any more than a good quartz banger.



Ha, I love glass but most people would think I am crazy to drop $160 on this marble yesterday. But I love it!

You can spend $1000 on a honey bucket just as easily. A glass collector spends thousands per rig, might as well go all the way. Part of the experience.

Agreed.

I used to combust out of dirty, oily $15 spoons that I would likely just throw away rather than clean.
Then I convinced myself to spend $100 on a "nice" piece of glass and just about shit a brick when I saw some really nice looking "bongs" for $2.5K, made by some space dudes in a Mothership?
WTF, when did stoners become so liquid?

Yeah, well I'm in deep now.
I medicate often and outlay a fair bit of cash for concentrates.
I want it to be as pleasant and effective as possible.
Purchasing glass and accessories is a one time cost that I can easily rationalize.


But now I think I may have too many rigs and it might be time to simplify.

 

[herbivore21]

Ahhhh, $900-$1000!?!? Congrats to you on the luxury purchase. Hope it works out well. I wouldn't really consider myself someone who is 'strapped' for money as I frequently tend to splurge, but ouch... when I think of spending a grand on a dab surface, as opposed to actual dabs, I can't help but wonder how that could be worth it, especially if its an upgrade and not a first purchase.. if you spent $50 a gram, that's 20 grams. Or, in my use, nearly half a years worth of concentrate.

The day I find a dab surface worth a half-a-years worth of concentrate, I'll youtube myself doing the Macarena and post it on facebook! haha, no really though, closely watching to see the satisfaction levels... I'm sure it's a quality piece, but those prices....

A half a year's worth of concentrate? Man the meds I use in 2.5 months would be worth as much as an entire liger setup. I am a moderate medical user and of course different doses for different folks. My d-nail sapphire setup was a little less at about 2 months worth of meds.

The real question is this - do you have tasty concentrates? Do you want to taste your concentrates the best way possible without wasting your dabs? Get a sapphire enail. Especially for those dabbing expensive concentrates with flavors worth savoring, sapphire is a no brainer. I dab full melt as my daily medicine. not because I'm a billionaire but because I know how to make it myself. Full melt tastes like bliss on sapphire. It melts up perfectly and doesn't get a 'hot taste' early in the dab like quartz does. Quartz's less even heat spread also means that the dab takes longer to melt up when dabbing on that material. Full melt also tastes clearly better still on sapphire than SiC. If folks are dabbing quality concentrates, then sapphire makes sense. As many above have said, many spent much more money on glass for strictly aesthetic purposes (worked glass).

Why would we not shell out for the best possible flavor/efficiency of vaporization? In the same way that lots of folks here love the Evo and other expensive but clearly efficient and tasty vape products, so too are sapphire enails the clear best option for dabbing.

Consider how much of every dab is wasted on quartz when we 'waste to taste'? Would that hard-earned money boiling into the air before your eyes not pay for an upgraded nail over time?

 

[Danksta]

I look at the liger as an investment towards a better dabbing experience. It made the price very easy to justify. In the long run it will pay for itself.

 

[herbivore21]

I look at the liger as an investment towards a better dabbing experience. It made the price very easy to justify. In the long run it will pay for itself.

A perfectly fair way to think of things. Anything SiC or Sapphire is easily justified by long term benefits IME.

The choice between SiC and Sapphire could be made on the following basis:

Do you have average entry level or middle-of-the-road quality concentrates and a budget to match? Go for SiC. No need to spend on Sapphire if your meds aren't especially tasty and worth savoring. SiC is justified over quartz if you can afford it due to durability, ease of cleaning and ability to get lower temp vaping with full vaporization. SiC is an option to not waste your meds just like sapphire, but the latter really outshines the former in flavor.

If you have very tasty meds and are a flavor chaser who is otherwise inclined to 'waste to taste' if you don't have a sapphire option - then you really should get sapphire. Your decision will pay for itself in saved medicine over time.

If you are on a low budget and you only use cheaper meds that do not taste so outstanding and have a small budget for nails, then cheap ti, quartz or ceramic with a torch is probably the only justified option. If you aren't looking to savor the flavor, then you don't need to spend more cash than that.

Hopefully this helps all of the readers. By the way, to any new readers checking this out - I was one of the first people on earth to use an all SiC and all sapphire nail. I have more experience with these materials than most people. I also am not any kind of Liger fanboy. In fact, I have long been beta tester for D-nail! The only other manufacturer who makes a comparable product!

Still, I know how to give credit where it is due and I'm always interested in checking out the bleeding edge of dab technology. I don't know that the Liger will be clearly better than what I have, but it is certainly worth a look. This is for my daily medicine. If I can find an advantage in efficiency, durability or ease of use, then it is justified. Even if not, I have wanted a spare sapphire nail sitting around just in case the worst should happen anyway!

EDIT: Just wanted to highlight that in a conversation with Josh, we discussed whether the liger is appropriate for use with no dropdown on rigs with hand formed glass GonGs. I will not copy and paste his exact language since I would rather get his permission for that first, but he explained that it is best to only use the liger without a dropdown on rigs with factory made scientific gong joints. Rigs with handformed gongs should be used with a dropdown since minor differences in the dimensions due to the hand-made joint may lead to breakage appearing immediately, or over time with heat and stress.

 

[killick]

You're good you just need to order either a 16mm or 20mm compatible version of the Liger, probably the 20mm based on comments so far.

I know you're going with a rosin setup but if you ever want to dabble in BHO or try some variety, check out this post on reddit for mail-order options. It's basically defacto legalization in Canada at the moment! Most shatters are priced in the $30-50 range which makes it competitive with self-production for me anyway. I like making QWET but I also like being able to order 10 different strains at once with 2-day delivery, at least for variety.

Thanks brother - appreciate the feedback! Josh sent me a note with some great pix - I'm gonna try a preorder of the 20 and the SiC and Quartz insert to get me started. Carb cap - any opinion on

-Storm Cell 3.0 cap ($28.75 cap only, $48.35 traditional set, $77.50 master set)
-Hurricane cap ($28.75 cap only, $48.35 traditional set, $77.50 master set)

I have pix of all the caps in one pic, but there is no clue what the difference is between a traditional set or a master set, although I'm guessing master set is 'all the things'. I'm sure 'traditional' is enough ...

Umm, OK - typing that while looking at the pic and it's starting to make sense...
Traditional is likely the long knurled handle with a (replaceable?) tip
Master is likely the shorter handle with the two lightening spaces and 7 sets of screwon tips beside it.

Canada is great! I do some volunteer work with www.MFTgroup.ca here in the GWN. BC has a lot of interesting people, like the 72 year old I met last week who is a serious grower for over 45 years, and has offered to lend me his vacuum oven should I want to experiment. (Which I really have to say almost knocked me over - he's an old suit and tie guy, looks like a retired lawyer!)

Edit - for you Canadians outside of BC and PQ - get yourself to the OvergrowCanada website and order yourself a bag of seeds, and start some anywhere you can find some dirt. Thats how we get the feds to fully 'legalize'. It'll be like trying to legalize tomatos

These guys aren't that far away, either http://thompsoncaribouconcentrates.ca/

edit - @herbivore21 I was *just this minute* trying to figure out which insert, and decided to start with quartz to SiC, and then sapphire later. To my uneducated pallette it could be like pearls before swine, or your first car being mom's 911 - you have nothing left to aim for. I think, in this instance, the Banger is a great start, and my upgrade can only make what should prove to be a great success even better! I'm looking forward to the sapphire insert already, and I still haven't sent Josh my preorder.

Chemo is this evenings strain, in case anyone is interested...

 

[mrbonsai420]

Thanks brother - appreciate the feedback! Josh sent me a note with some great pix - I'm gonna try a preorder of the 20 and the SiC and Quartz insert to get me started. Carb cap - any opinion on

-Storm Cell 3.0 cap ($28.75 cap only, $48.35 traditional set, $77.50 master set)
-Hurricane cap ($28.75 cap only, $48.35 traditional set, $77.50 master set)

I have pix of all the caps in one pic, but there is no clue what the difference is between a traditional set or a master set, although I'm guessing master set is 'all the things'. I'm sure 'traditional' is enough ...

Umm, OK - typing that while looking at the pic and it's starting to make sense...
Traditional is likely the long knurled handle with a (replaceable?) tip
Master is likely the shorter handle with the two lightening spaces and 7 sets of screwon tips beside it.

Canada is great! I do some volunteer work with www.MFTgroup.ca here in the GWN. BC has a lot of interesting people, like the 72 year old I met last week who is a serious grower for over 45 years, and has offered to lend me his vacuum oven should I want to experiment. (Which I really have to say almost knocked me over - he's an old suit and tie guy, looks like a retired lawyer!)

Edit - for you Canadians outside of BC and PQ - get yourself to the OvergrowCanada website and order yourself a bag of seeds, and start some anywhere you can find some dirt. Thats how we get the feds to fully 'legalize'. It'll be like trying to legalize tomatos

These guys aren't that far away, either http://thompsoncaribouconcentrates.ca/

edit - @herbivore21 I was *just this minute* trying to figure out which insert, and decided to start with quartz to SiC, and then sapphire later. To my uneducated pallette it could be like pearls before swine, or your first car being mom's 911 - you have nothing left to aim for. I think, in this instance, the Banger is a great start, and my upgrade can only make what should prove to be a great success even better! I'm looking forward to the sapphire insert already, and I still haven't sent Josh my preorder.

Chemo is this evenings strain, in case anyone is interested...

Nice! If you have any other questions just ask.
I would go with the SiC if I was just going to have 1 insert. And the 20mm is a good choice. The hurricane or Storm cell caps will work as well, I prefer the Hurricane but it is heavy so be aware of that.

 

[killick]

@mrbonsai420 Gracias!

So the last thing... 'all 4 adapters'... I was told somewhere that it's best to utilize male glass as males can cause damage to female glass.

If this is true, and it seems slightly plausible, I should aim for 14/18mm female adapter. However 'precision fluting reduces active heat transfer', which might make that less of an issue, in which case it doesn't matter so much. (my thought process... make any sense? Anyhoo)

Second part of the process - I tend to aim for the larger sizes to reduce draw resistance. This may be different for a Banger. Which leaves these (last I can think of) questions:

1. Male or female?

1b. Large or small?

2b. Can I make a suitable business case to get an OpEx for all 4?

Not 2b. Would I ever use all 4? Would any one be preferential? I still need the glass anyways, this way I can just get what I need when the Banger is ready for action...

Make any sense? I'm onto Sedamen in winterized oil format, jammed into a Yocan Cerum on top of an eVic VT. Giddyup

 

[vapewithape]

Nice! If you have any other questions just ask.
I would go with the SiC if I was just going to have 1 insert. And the 20mm is a good choice. The hurricane or Storm cell caps will work as well, I prefer the Hurricane but it is heavy so be aware of that.

I am worried the Hurricane may be too heavy for my set up

I use a CCG Fab Egg (http://www.dhgate.com/store/product/ccg-2016-new-arrival-glass-water-pipes-glass/376451832.html) with a High Five 20 mm enail and i find my 20 mm Liger v3 is constantly tilting to the side

I cant get the lug to lock in place and im scared the hurricane cap may add to the weight and tilt the Liger even more

How far am I supposed to thread the piece into the bowl area? I cant get the SiC insert out bc of the metal protruding into the bowl piece as I have to thread it in deeper to insure a stable fit that wont tilt

Should I go with the Storm cap then? I am still waiting for my cap to ship and want to make the right decision as I am using a tiny glass disk and it is VERY annoying to use and have already burnt myself a few times

I am also finding i am getting alot of reclaim in my piece why would this be i am not even hitting the liger that hard? I am running at 720-730 i think my coil is not making the right fit even though i tried squeezing it as much as possible and posted pics on here

I dont know what else to do to get proper functioning

 

[Hogni]

Any news when Josh will open his new Site?

 

[ReeferChiefer]

I am worried the Hurricane may be too heavy for my set up

I use a CCG Fab Egg (http://www.dhgate.com/store/product/ccg-2016-new-arrival-glass-water-pipes-glass/376451832.html) with a High Five 20 mm enail and i find my 20 mm Liger v3 is constantly tilting to the side

I cant get the lug to lock in place and im scared the hurricane cap may add to the weight and tilt the Liger even more

How far am I supposed to thread the piece into the bowl area? I cant get the SiC insert out bc of the metal protruding into the bowl piece as I have to thread it in deeper to insure a stable fit that wont tilt

Should I go with the Storm cap then? I am still waiting for my cap to ship and want to make the right decision as I am using a tiny glass disk and it is VERY annoying to use and have already burnt myself a few times

I am also finding i am getting alot of reclaim in my piece why would this be i am not even hitting the liger that hard? I am running at 720-730 i think my coil is not making the right fit even though i tried squeezing it as much as possible and posted pics on here

I dont know what else to do to get proper functioning

I too own a Fab Egg from DHgate and I can tell you that yes, if it is already prone to tilting, the cap will be a bit too much weight. You can counter this by always having your non dominant hand on the base of the rig at all times. I do this with some of my poorly designed rigs.

I personally prefer to thread it far enough so the dish can't fall out. Between sessions, I move my stuff around. The first week I got the nail I almost dropped the insert on the ground because I forgot the nail had an insert to begin with. I see it as a "why not" and just have the threading help me keep it all together.

If this decision is entirely based around one rig, then yes, get the Storm Cell to help alleviate the weight issue. If you plan to use this nail setup in the future with a rig that has a proper base to hold all the weight? Then might as well get the Hurricane cap if that's the one you want.

As for the reclaim in the rig, I've actually had the opposite experience. First make sure the coil is actually making full contact with the base of the chamber. I had to use a metal washer on mine in order to ensure an even tight seal. The pics are in the previous page. Also, as for the reclaim I have had zero reclaim in my rig, even my drop downs after a week of heavy use. I would have to say it is entirely due to the low temps I'm able to hit now. I'm using this nail between 650-670. At that temperature, you're not frying the concentrate, most if not all of it is properly vaporized.

Try making sure you have solid, even contact between the coil and the chamber. A washer did the trick for me, try avoid having to tighten the screw too hard. It doesn't need to be if there is proper contact anyway.

 

[Monsoon]

Any news when Josh will open his new Site?

I was told that my recently placed pre-order would likely ship next week so probably around then. I think he's just waiting for the stock to arrive.

 

[mrbonsai420]

I am worried the Hurricane may be too heavy for my set up

I use a CCG Fab Egg (http://www.dhgate.com/store/product/ccg-2016-new-arrival-glass-water-pipes-glass/376451832.html) with a High Five 20 mm enail and i find my 20 mm Liger v3 is constantly tilting to the side

I cant get the lug to lock in place and im scared the hurricane cap may add to the weight and tilt the Liger even more

How far am I supposed to thread the piece into the bowl area? I cant get the SiC insert out bc of the metal protruding into the bowl piece as I have to thread it in deeper to insure a stable fit that wont tilt

Should I go with the Storm cap then? I am still waiting for my cap to ship and want to make the right decision as I am using a tiny glass disk and it is VERY annoying to use and have already burnt myself a few times

I am also finding i am getting alot of reclaim in my piece why would this be i am not even hitting the Liger that hard? I am running at 720-730 i think my coil is not making the right fit even though i tried squeezing it as much as possible and posted pics on here

I don't know what else to do to get proper functioning

First of all tighten the nut to where it is locked into place. Even if you have to use a small pair of pliers lightly, It should not be swinging at all.
Second , enail cord placement can help a lot. Try having the enail cable route from front to the back of the rig for extra stability instead of off to the side (most likely it's falling to the side with the cable )

Third you can screw the air intake into the bucket as much as you like. Sometimes I screw it in just a few threads so I can hot swap inserts. Other times like on my travel rig I thread it through a little more and lock the insert into place. Little things like that aren't going to effect function much but play around with it and figure out your preference, either is correct.

You say at 730 your nail isn't getting hot enough? Can you explain how this coil performs with the standard 20mm enail that came with your unit? Just wondering if you have a bad/cold coil?

Have you tried hitting it at 650 degrees or so? If you hit a rice size grain do you get a huge cloud? Can you post a picture of the product you are putting into the nail? I am wondering if you are getting more claim because you are running too hot? How do your hits look like compared to the ones I have posted hit in the low 630 degrees area?

And lastly, Do you have a shot glass? anything glass should work as a makeshift carb cap for a little while. It doesn't have to be that small to where you burn yourself.