CCA Liger banger V3.0

[Cannabis Connoisseur]

I agree, it bugs me too. it's the nature of the beast, all the different temps reported are due to the poor thermal interface plus having the thermocouple embedded in the hot runner heater coils that has become the (not so great) industry standard. my open source e-nail project uses an induction heater to rectify this.

I also have not received my liger but with the Ti banger (sans insert) that I currently use I have the TC (thermocouple) spot welded to the bottom of the bucket. I think the readings are as accurate as possible for e-nails.

that said, @Hogni is right,


not everyone has the ability or the desire to be as anal about temps as us. it's an engineers' curse.


AFAIK the Hex-Nail does not measure bucket or dish temp directly, it is a calculated reading which would suffer the same errors.

my e-nail has an uptemp mode so I drop the dab at 390F then it ramps the temp up to 490F in 90 seconds. these parameters are user adjustable.
the vapor is wispy but loaded with flavor until about 440F then thickens but loses flavor as the temp increases.
http://www.d-nail.com/info/blog/stabilized-uptemp-procedure-writeup-available/
I

What Enail Do you have

 

[hardboiledfrog]

the point is, my 20mm coil was REALLY tight, so tight i could use it only on some nails, for most the coil was too tight. with the v3 it was also tight, but putting it on scratched the liger in some places but it's very tight. so i started with 600f but found the vapor as too hot and it triggered coughing when inhaling for a longer time. i found my sweet spot at 550, but a friend of mine likes 525 even more on mine. he and and the other person who also ordered one are dabbing more @ the 600f on their own liger (with spread coils to make them tighter). so 525-550 seems quite low to what everyone else is dabbing at

so that's why i want to know what everybody's dish temp is.

yes, I understand your point, I was trying to explain the wide variations in reported preferred temps.
you are fortunate (other than the scratches) as your reported low dabbing temps indicate that your coil to liger thermal interface is quite good, much better than your friend's.
possibly as good as it gets with a hot runner coil, but it will most likely degrade over time due to heat cycling, again due to the nature of the beast.

What Enail Do you have

the controller is my design listed in my sig.
the nail itself is this one:
http://www.dhgate.com/product/smoking-dogo-2015-may-new-arrival-universal/238802269.html

 

[Hogni]

the point is, my 20mm coil was REALLY tight, so tight i could use it only on some nails, for most the coil was too tight. with the v3 it was also tight, but putting it on scratched the liger in some places but it's very tight. so i started with 600f but found the vapor as too hot and it triggered coughing when inhaling for a longer time. i found my sweet spot at 550, but a friend of mine likes 525 even more on mine. he and and the other person who also ordered one are dabbing more @ the 600f on their own liger (with spread coils to make them tighter). so 525-550 seems quite low to what everyone else is dabbing at

so that's why i want to know what everybody's dish temp is.

Thanks, but with which insert/-s are you driving these temps??

 

[KimDracula]

I don't have the tools to measure dish temp but I've found that a pretty good range of temperatures work pretty well with some minor differences.

I've gone as low as 525 but have settled at around 585-600 (first with SiC now with sapphire). My coil is spread out and snug on the Liger (v2.0). It took me a long time to figure out that too low a temp not only means it's going to take longer to vape the dab but doesn't deliver the same flavor either because of that drawn out vaporization. I also found it slightly more irritating on the inhale. It's fairly negligible but combined with the longer inhale time at lower temps it almost always resulted in a cough near the end of the dab.

 

[dizaster096]

the point is, my 20mm coil was REALLY tight, so tight i could use it only on some nails, for most the coil was too tight. with the v3 it was also tight, but putting it on scratched the liger in some places but it's very tight. so i started with 600f but found the vapor as too hot and it triggered coughing when inhaling for a longer time. i found my sweet spot at 550, but a friend of mine likes 525 even more on mine. he and and the other person who also ordered one are dabbing more @ the 600f on their own liger (with spread coils to make them tighter). so 525-550 seems quite low to what everyone else is dabbing at

so that's why i want to know what everybody's dish temp is.

That's normal 580F with sic on 20mm when tightened is the highest temps i would use, still to hot. I use 520-570.

The actual rig you use and size is also gonna have an effect, less travel small bore will give better flavors.

 

[Scootcha]

That's normal 580F with sic on 20mm when tightened is the highest temps i would use, still to hot. I use 520-570.

The actual rig you use and size is also gonna have an effect, less travel small bore will give better flavors.

Funny you mention that. I just got my 20mm v3 yesterday and a new 9" Dhgate recycler. After stretching and seating my coil. I've been taking dabs at 550 with the quartz insert. Before I was around 610-625 with a quartz banger. Still waiting on SiC and a proper carb cap though. The Storm Cell that came along with it doesn't seat or seal . Still performs pretty damn well with a glass ufo cap. Can't wait to experience it when it's 'firing on all cylinders'.

 

[Seth_]

Thanks, but with which insert/-s are you driving these temps??

i only bought the SIC insert

 

[Monsoon]

My replacement 30mm sapphire, storm cell and heater shroud all arrived! The shroud is nicely designed, fits on perfectly and looks great. The storm cell fits in without issue, gonna have to play with it a bit more to see which I prefer. From a couple tests though I think I might be able to get a tighter seal with the Hurricane cap. But I do like that the Storm locks into place correctly each time while the Hurricane you need to be more careful with the angle and placement. Lighter size and weight are also pluses.

After using the SiC insert exclusively for a month now, the flavour burst from the sapphire was instantly noticeable! I tried some Phyto Ghost OG shatter which is my best tasting one now with a nice orange taste and at 620F it felt like a flavour bomb went off in my mouth on the exhale.

 

[dizaster096]

Ordered a 20mm v3 had some extra cash and the hurricane cap is a little rough on v2 because lip is smaller.

Edit: Was gonna get a bates worms pump but properly just gonna save some money and get something local from @browski_glass

 

[LazyIdol]

Looks like my storm cell master set and SiC are out for delivery today!

Edit:

Looks like it was just the SiC insert. Still waiting on the Storm cell master set.

 

[6079Smith]

My SiC insert is also out for delivery It's been all quartz up to now and, while the quartz has been great, it sounds like the SiC is generally preferred out of the two. Looking forward to ringing in the new year with a new surface!

 

[matthend]

@LazyIdol would you mind sharing which glass piece do you use the liger in and how does it handle the bulk of the nail and coil?
i have an ftk and the only thing keeping me from an fc-710 is the smallish base. I currently have the 710 whip in the ftk and it works pretty well, but always up for improvements.
Thanks!

 

[LazyIdol]

@LazyIdol would you mind sharing which glass piece do you use the liger in and how does it handle the bulk of the nail and coil?
i have an ftk and the only thing keeping me from an fc-710 is the smallish base. I currently have the 710 whip in the ftk and it works pretty well, but always up for improvements.
Thanks!

I have both the FTK and the FC 710. They both handle the nail and coil easily. I prefer using a dropdown so that I can easily swap between pieces, but I just checked and wouldnt be concerned about tipping with either of these.

 

[PoopMachine]

Looks like my SIC will be here tomorrow. Thanks, Josh!

 

[hardboiledfrog]

woohoo!!! just got my "out for delivery" notice. looks like I get to bang in the new year with my liger.
@CCA710 must have upgraded my shipping. thank you sir, much appreciated!

 

[Danksta]

Well it was bound to happen at some point, I killed the sapphire 30mm insert after a killer sesh with @Terpstar. Thankfully we got in plenty of dabs before the accident. I ending up tipping my incycler and the water poured into the bucket, causing the water to boil and sapphire to crack all over the place. It was quite the sad scene. Now I know if I wanna take this setup out of the house I should probably use a drop down. The setup is great at home, but in a social setting it's kinda awkward. The liger wants to make the incycler tip over any chance it has. Shit happens, we move on. Lesson learned.

I couldn't afford to replace the sapphire so I emailed Josh to see if he had some SiC in stock. He did! I should be back up and running by Thursday. THX @CCA710 !!!

The whole experience left me with a new appreciation for the liger. Dabbing is not the same on any other nail. The ritual I have with the liger is so much more fun than a normal nail.

Those of you who have both, what numbers you liking on the SiC? I was doing 608 with my sapphire. I was hoping to go lower since it's a more efficient surface.

 

[mutten840]

I have been liking my SiC at 620 or lower

Sorry to hear about the sapphire sacrifice. That shit is all kinds of suck =/

 

[Danksta]

I have been liking my SiC at 620 or lower

Sorry to hear about the sapphire sacrifice. That shit is all kinds of suck =/

Thankfully I've broken lots of glass over the years so it was easy to handle. Hardest part is losing the setup for a few days and the taste. The liger is just such a great setup.

 

[herbivore21]

Well it was bound to happen at some point, I killed the sapphire 30mm insert after a killer sesh with @Terpstar. Thankfully we got in plenty of dabs before the accident. I ending up tipping my incycler and the water poured into the bucket, causing the water to boil and sapphire to crack all over the place. It was quite the sad scene. Now I know if I wanna take this setup out of the house I should probably use a drop down. The setup is great at home, but in a social setting it's kinda awkward. The liger wants to make the incycler tip over any chance it has. Shit happens, we move on. Lesson learned.

I couldn't afford to replace the sapphire so I emailed Josh to see if he had some SiC in stock. He did! I should be back up and running by Thursday. THX @CCA710 !!!

The whole experience left me with a new appreciation for the liger. Dabbing is not the same on any other nail. The ritual I have with the liger is so much more fun than a normal nail.

Those of you who have both, what numbers you liking on the SiC? I was doing 608 with my sapphire. I was hoping to go lower since it's a more efficient surface.

Ouch! Man that is brutal! You're right, the ligers definitely need to be placed on a rig with a solid base and low centre of gravity. This is true of all e-nails but it is even more important with the liger due to added mass.

Holy shit my heater setup is not even close to efficient if you guys are dabbing on sapphire at 608 without mega trails! Bring on the incoming final heater cover lol

I've been using my sapphire halo and sapphire liger back to back on multiple rigs/controllers for a while and and experiencing the trade-offs between each one a lot here. I gotta say, the threaded section of the liger can get filthy and is difficult to clean. It reminds me of the main inner shaft of an Infiniti and how gunked those used to get. The d-nail slim series got this part of the path super small and I do prefer less pieces of less-dirty titanium!

Qtipping the d-nail sapphire is much harder work than the liger sapphire though, the polished finish helps on the liger helps a lot here. The d-nail cap and sapphire wik surface make for much better spreading with much less effort to get the dab to boil evenly IME. I do not like moving carb caps during the dab and do not find it effective due to vapor loss when the cap inevitably loses seal during movement!

I really don't like the liger hurricane cap nor the traditional dabber handles (too short, so many burns from recently used carb caps!).

The adjustable airflow on the cap IME is not useful, since only one of the settings is usable for my needs. The other settings leak too much vapor in-between pulls. The Liger also needs to be set up angled just right or your dab is going to all pool in the one corner very easily due to the polished finish encouraging clumps of boiling oil to roll to wherever gravity leans.

So many trade-offs I really can't list them all just now lol, after a while, I have found that I use both sapphire e-nails and can't settle on a clear winner. I just use each one on the rig that it matches better lol

 

[Manchovees]

Ugh, I ordered from High 5 expecting them to have it in stock to be listing it on their website and I'm just now finding out they're going to have to wait until it's made to ship just like on CCA710 I've been trying to contact Josh to see if they have SiC in stock, if they do I would order it right now, but he's not responding to any emails or Facebook messages...

Anyways....

Have any of you used your Liger without an insert? It looks like I'm going to probably have to wait a while for my SiC insert, and I'm not going to just not use it... I currently use the High 5 6-in-1 domeless Ti nail for my 20mm coil from them. Would the liger be leaps and bounds smoother just from having better Ti? Or is titanium titanium no matter what?

Edit: @Danksta that is horrible to hear man... I don't think I'd leave the house for a week in depressed solitude over cracking a $300+ insert... sorry for your loss..

 

[Danksta]

Ugh, I ordered from High 5 expecting them to have it in stock to be listing it on their website and I'm just now finding out they're going to have to wait until it's made to ship just like on CCA710 I've been trying to contact Josh to see if they have SiC in stock, if they do I would order it right now, but he's not responding to any emails or Facebook messages...

Anyways....

Have any of you used your Liger without an insert? It looks like I'm going to probably have to wait a while for my SiC insert, and I'm not going to just not use it... I currently use the High 5 6-in-1 domeless Ti nail for my 20mm coil from them. Would the liger be leaps and bounds smoother just from having better Ti? Or is titanium titanium no matter what?

Edit: @Danksta that is horrible to hear man... I don't think I'd leave the house for a week in depressed solitude over cracking a $300+ insert... sorry for your loss..

When I spoke to him Monday he said he had 20mm and was running low on the 30mm SiC. I was able to get a 30mm after double checking it was in stock and ready to ship. You should be in luck.

I was going to use the liger without the insert myself and changed my mind. Didn't like the idea of oil getting stuck in that seal.

 

[Cannabis Connoisseur]

I've used it several times with no insert. Hits great!

 

[Terpstar]

Sorry @Danksta. I feel partially responsible since the casualty occurred in my basement. Next sessions melt is on me!

THANK YOU for bringing over and sharing the liger sapphire experience with me! It was an epic session even with the fatality. We must of just been way too stoned by the end. That sure is one fine piece of vaporization equipment, @CCA710. It complimented my slim dnail very nicely.

Man, I am scarred by the sound of that sizzling water and popping sapphire. I've had nightmares about it for the past 5 nights in a row.

I hope you get that SIC insert soon so I can try it out!!

Peace!

 

[Scootcha]

I got my 20mm SiC dish and Hurricane cap in (to hold me over until Stormcells are in stock). Whew lad. She goes low and gets full vaporization. I wasn't sure how big of a difference to expect going from over a year on quartz to SiC today. I thought most where just exaggerating. As soon as I took that 1st dab and blew it out, I'm a believer. No banger+cap combo I've used has gotten such good results, and I've used a bunch.

Feels good to have something designed to pair so well together. Looking forward to trying the Stormcell.

And it's just so sexy. When my Bates / Worm outside pump comes in tomorrow, no one will hear from me for a few days as my garage will be a fog of extract vapor and me drooling in a chair.

 

[KimDracula]

Put some very fine cracks in my sapphire insert when I mistakenly picked up a wet q-tip to do routine mop-up after a dab.

I heard it pop and started shaking my head and thinking "I can't believe this happened right after reading about it. D'oh."

It seems usable still so I'll see how it works. I'm not sure I would notice the feel of the surface imperfections if I couldn't see them.

Careful, people. It's a dangerous time for sapphire inserts.