BAKx - bake all kinds

[Shit Snacks]

I pretty much have been at the base settings right out the box. The bowls are quite tasty and rather intense if i do some heat soaking. I am thinking about dropping the temps to around 185 - 190 on the cruise mode.
I did have one issue with the Bakx out of the box, i noticed the glass heater was chipped. It works fine but it was chipped. I took a pic and emailed Funky and he said he would replace he unit at next drop. Thats why i will always be a customer for life, i will deal with the hassles of the drops, his products are amazing and his customer service is even better.

Yeah I run mine even lower really, the longer heat soaking, depending on the load etc... Oh mine also does have a little chip in the top part of the heater but it's super tiny from the manufacturer of the tubes I think and hasn't affected anything one bit... I finally have a banger to try as well as steel stem!

 

[hoyo77]

Yeah I run mine even lower really, the longer heat soaking, depending on the load etc... Oh mine also does have a little chip in the top part of the heater but it's super tiny from the manufacturer of the tubes I think and hasn't affected anything one bit... I finally have a banger to try as well as steel stem!

Let me know about the steel stem...I have one as well. I basically ordered all the accessories including the screen maker for this beast. I have noticed the clouds are still there at the lower temps but the flavor picks up quite a bit.

 

[gordontreeman]

Yeah, I have also been very happy with the stock settings--I had Funky set the resistance on my mod though. I couldn't say if it was his goal or just the way he configures them or what, but it feels very similar to my Tetra P80. I do 360F for whispier vapor but amazing taste and that is where the Bak gets me. I push to ~430 for a dark roasted coffee bean esque avb, and again, gets me about there. So I am also getting amazing bowls without doing anything but varying my temp. For DNA I highly recommend grabbing the profiles from Lamart's site. You will need to find your resistance sweet spot, but that is the only variable you need to tweak. In a pinch just read that at cold and adjust your temperature to get the results you want like @Shit Snacks said. Maybe your display will say 380F and the heated air passing over your material won't be at 380F, but who cares? So long as you know what 380 means on your bakx you are good to go. For the Tubo compatible mods I would set them as Funky describes and again just play with the resistance. That is how the P80s are calibrated as well and it works fantastic.

I mean if you want to have fun and play with all the variables knock yourself out. I think there is a physics problem that might be interesting with the PID settings and such from an academic pov, but if you're reading this thread and worried a 510 vape might not be for you seeing those walls of text and crazy incantations to set up the Bakx its really not that complicated. The out of the box settings will give you a fantastic experience, and then when if you want to tweak to your hearts content have fun!

 

[n0tu2]

I pretty much have been at the base settings right out the box. The bowls are quite tasty and rather intense if i do some heat soaking. I am thinking about dropping the temps to around 185 - 190 on the cruise mode.
I did have one issue with the Bakx out of the box, i noticed the glass heater was chipped. It works fine but it was chipped. I took a pic and emailed Funky and he said he would replace he unit at next drop. Thats why i will always be a customer for life, i will deal with the hassles of the drops, his products are amazing and his customer service is even better.

Yeah I run mine even lower really, the longer heat soaking, depending on the load etc... Oh mine also does have a little chip in the top part of the heater but it's super tiny from the manufacturer of the tubes I think and hasn't affected anything one bit... I finally have a banger to try as well as steel stem!

Don't feel bad I also have a similar half inch hairline surface scratch on bottom of inner chamber close to the opening. Didn't notice it till couple days out of the box. Doesn't effect performance and nothings perfect - figured it was always there or possibly from heating/cooling along with expanding/contracting of the coil may have brought it out - who knows.. I do hear some clicking noises sometimes as it cools from the coil shrinking. It might just be the nature of this beast. The material is in separate glass stem so doesn't matter to me unless it starts to grow. Told Ralph about it and will just keep an eye on it for now.

I mean if you want to have fun and play with all the variables knock yourself out. I think there is a physics problem that might be interesting with the PID settings and such from an academic pov, but if you're reading this thread and worried a 510 vape might not be for you seeing those walls of text and crazy incantations to set up the Bakx its really not that complicated. The out of the box settings will give you a fantastic experience, and then when if you want to tweak to your hearts content have fun!

Agree.. I figured get the data out there for the vape geeks because I've done quite some tinkering.. but don't be gun shy about this vape... just have Ralph configure it for you on a mod at drop and you will have a great time with it and not have to worry about my blah blah blah resistance blahbity blah blah TCR zzz post

 

[AssistedLiving]

just have Ralph configure it for you on a mod at drop and you will have a great time with it and not have to worry about my blah blah blah resistance blahbity blah blah TCR zzz post

sounds good to me!

 

[GoldenBud]

yeah I learnt that it doesn't matter what mod screen says, as long as the walls temp are around 430F or even more, after 30s of soaking, you'll have huge clouds like the Supreme or so.... So if it's configured by Ralph, 345F heater/mod screen means 430F walls...so start from 345F or so...

Watch BAKed | Streamable

Watch "BAKed" on Streamable.

streamable.com

 

[gordontreeman]

Agree.. I figured get the data out there for the vape geeks because I've done quite some tinkering.. but don't be gun shy about this vape... just have Ralph configure it for you on a mod at drop and you will have a great time with it and not have to worry about my blah blah blah resistance blahbity blah blah TCR zzz post

For sure, they were great posts--very informative! I might have to give it a try at some point myself.

 

[GoldenBud]

I don't know but common sense says that the thicker more mass the metal is it would need more power applied to get it to heat up. I know metal has to be responsive to electrical resistance and the purity of it will make the resistance lower and work better with TCR. It may have similar properties with its smaller brothers of the same metal type no matter its mass. The coil in the BAKx is actually pretty quick to respond and even at low watts of 15 or 30 it heats up. You wouldn't want to touch it while applying 20 watts for a short period.. expect a burn.

TCR = (R2- R1)/ R1 (T2-T1).
R2 was 0.285~ with the Wismec Predator ("Zero All" after a session, the system is hot. just after a good session)
R1 was 0.215~ (cold system)
T2 was 225c (hot temp)
T1 was 25c (room temp)

but it took me about 2sec after the session to get into menu>vaping>coils and clicking Zero All, maybe even 4s, so maybe the R2=0.295
TCR= (0.295-0.215)/0.215(225-25c)
TCR = 0.00186= 186
very close to TCR=185

in case R2=0.285:

TCR= (0.285-0.215)/0.215(225-25c)
TCR=0.00163 = 163 -
so it's closer to 185 other than 120...
but
I locked my coil 0.193, not 0.215
so
TCR= (0.285-0.193)/0.193(225-25c)
TCR= 0.00238 = TCR 238 tubomyevic form
and it doesn't make sense too much. So pretty sure it means COLD R=R1


I think the way to calculate this is with 0.215. not 0.193. but if you have an idea with explanation, I'll be very happy to hear that.
I think R1 is just cold R, not what you do lock.

I know for sure T1, T2, R2. R1 is cold R or locked R? I think cold R.

 

[n0tu2]

(Part III)

Warning + Additional Info

First, a warning: After tinkering some more I came across a possible new bug in the TUBO firmware. After activating a new TCR in user defined M2 or M3 locations (3 Clicks/Edit) be sure to either power down the mod (5x clicks) and turn it back on (5x clicks) before you have the first session or a new test session. Better yet, reboot the whole mod (open battery chamber or remove a battery for a second or two) JIC. It appears switching between M1, M2 or M3 mid session a certain amount of times swapping numbers in the same session it may randomly cause a runaway situation where either Warmup to Cruise activates and sends 70w for longer than desired during the cruise session or TCR may be reverting back to 185 unexpectedly or possibly both.

Fix: either re-assign 3 Clicks back to 'Warmup' to Cruise and/or disable it completely as well since it's broken right now with the BAKx:

(Menu->Vaping->W2C) Set to 0 (disabled)

You can just re-assign Edit to a different number of Clicks if you need to use it again. I haven't tested using it with 3 Clicks after W2C has been force disabled with 0. It's up to you if you want to keep using Edit with 3 Clicks and test on. Just not sure if it's a W2C bug or the assigning of Edit to 3 clicks where 'Warmup' was located that's causing it. It may very well be a combination of changing from one M setting to another a few times in the same session and having Edit assigned to use warmup's 3 Clicks.. The perfect storm.

I have since assigned Edit to 4 Clicks overriding Tstep temporarily and haven't seen the issue since.

Now for some additional interesting info and tweaks...

(Menu->Interface)

1C5F.. ON (allows you to adjust temp by 1C or 5F increments)

PwBar.. ON (last option on the bottom, PwBar NOT PPwr. this gives you a little fancier power usage display bar during cruise)

(Menu->Interface->Expert)

LSL.. OFF (Light Sleep Mode. If your mod seems to drain your batteries over a couple days when not in use you can try to disable LSL. If you use the mods date/time clock it may lose some time when now in deep sleep after turning it OFF. This saves some juice, especially if you don't use the clock)

I have learned that you CAN use Arctic Fox Device Monitor with TUBO firmware (thanks Ralph!) It doesn't work in the latest version. The last version of NFE that it works with is 7.1.1:

https://nfeteam.org/forum/threads/nfe-tools-v7-1-1.124/

Don't update your firmware or save mod settings with this version, just use the Device Monitor!

After you unpack that version and run NToolbox.exe on a PC you can use Device Monitor to watch live stats and graphs while your TUBO firmware mod is connected via USB and actively firing or cruising. You can see locked resistance and live resistance, temperatures at coil and at the mods motherboard (according to mod) ..and much much more.. in real-time like a DNA mod. Helps a lot for tuning!

It helps more with Algo PID tuning as you can watch the graph over time as set temp is hit and see if it corrected correctly and maintains stable over time via degree of oscillation in the graph. Give it a whirl, even if you don't follow what it's showing - it's still kinda cool to watch!

Happy BAKx'ing.

 

[GoldenBud]

Maybe your display will say 380F and the heated air passing over your material won't be at 380F, but who cares?

In the course of "Heat Principles" they teach you that the heater is the hottest thing in the system. If you dig google, you'll find that fact too. or read a book or so...

but because funky wanted to inform people to lock 0.200 resistance, with temps of 345F-370F, that it'll be easy for everybody. so the settings will be global. but then walls temp will be ~~+85degF than the heater. it seems like in most cases, the walls are (+30degC=+85degF ) than the heater. it goes against the physics, but it makes life much easier. and that's more important than physics when you have somehow "complicated" vape

and that's before we look at air's temp..

 

[n0tu2]

but it took me about 2sec after the session to get into menu>vaping>coils and clicking Zero All, maybe even 4s, so maybe the R2=0.295
TCR= (0.295-0.215)/0.215(225-25c)
TCR = 0.00186= 186
very close to TCR=185

Hi GB,

The fomula you mentioned:

TCR = (R2- R1) / R1 (T2-T1)

This solves for and returns a TCR value; it will tell you what TCR you are currently using (set in the mod) at this point in time after plugging in some numbers and calculating it. It should return 185 if your mod is set to 185 and the numbers plugged in were accurate to begin with. Not sure it helps any for tuning or how to apply it (yet) still thinking about it. I feel like it's just spitting back TCR used during the calculation.

"Zero All" will lock in the current/at this point in time live resistance of the coil as the mods locked setting for coil cold resistance or last known cold coil resistance (sometimes buggy) Best to edit this value and dial in the true cold resistance manually. You could lock in a much hotter resistance doing this by accident and that would be a very unhappy next session if you let it cool down before use. Mod would think that whatever temp the coil was when you locked is room temp and fire hard to give you a nice combustion event. Safest is to run Zero All at cold w/BAKx sitting unused for a long while if your going to use that.

After explaining this I hope it gives some people more insight to the Quest for the Exact Tune!

The Real-Time Temp Calc Function of a mod is something like this:

(R2- R1) / (T2-T1) + RTC

The first half of the formula will return the Celsius temperature value of the difference between the actual live resistance of the coil and the locked cold resistance of the coil real-time. Then it adds a fixed [+ RTC] Room Temperature Cold variable of either 20C or 25C to the result to arrive at what it thinks the temperature of the coil is in this point of time in Celsius. This calculation runs lots of times per second when you are actively firing or cruising depending on mod chipset and displays the result on the mod screen as current coil temperature (fluctuating)

DEFINE THE VARIABLES

R1=The current live resistance of the coil in ohms at this point in time after heating for some amount of time or not (cruising for 30 seconds) according to mod sensing/detection

R2=The cold resistance value in ohms of the coil at room temp (COLD locked resistance of coil) according to mod sensing/detection and locked in by user for algorithm reference to calculate current temp of coil

T1=The current TCR setting value of mod as set by user or pre-defined in firmware (can be changed) default is .00185 in TUBO firmware or user defined if known

T2=The cold resistance value in ohms of the coil at room temp (COLD locked resistance of coil) according to mod sensing/detection and locked in by user for algorithm reference to calculate current temp of coil (yeah, it's the same value as R2 in our use case)

RTC=Room Temperature in C. Mostly this value is hard set to 20C (68F) or 25C (77F) - depends on the mod firmware but I think TUBO and AF firmwares are using 20C for this variable (if anyone knows for sure, let me know) going with 20C.

Now we plug in some numbers..

All numbers are ohms except T1 which is the TCR. TCR is just a co-efficient or just some number we are going to multiply another by. All numbers are using 5 decimals for greater accuracy in sub-ohm measurements.

pick some numbers..

R1=.00305 (live resistance after applying some power for a while .305)
R2=.00260 (cold resistance .260)
T1=.00112 (TCR 112)
T2=.00260 (cold resistance .260)

Coil is warm:
(.00305 - .00260) / (.00112 * .00260) + 20

Result: 174.532967033 C

You can paste that in Google and replace with your numbers. All it does is tell you what it thinks the temp of the coil is in C by calculating the difference between cold resistance R2 and live resistance R1 taking into account the set TCR. It can be a different result if you change TCR +1 or -1 or R1 or R2 (which is also T2 for our use) values and recalculate.

Coil is cold:
(.00260 - .00260) / (.00112 * .00260) + 20
Result: 20 C

The thing is you can play with TCR number and live resistance and cold resistance till blue in the face but can never get truth unless you actually temperature test the coil on a meter or good thermometer (testing the coil not the walls)

You set the mod to a temp, lets say 356F/180C. Lock cold resistance to actual true mod detected resistance at cold. Set TCR to a safe number, let's say 92. Then run a cruise session. Take a live temp reading of the coil at 30 seconds and 40 seconds. Keep testing the coil for a while (letting it cruise) unless it's grossly low then start over. Is it really 356F/180C or pretty darn close/stable for a while? Probably not, set TCR to 100 and try again. What is it now? Try 101..102..103..110.. until you have a 356F/180C reading on the coil or as close as possible. That's your TCR sweetspot! Now test other temps 383F 401F 410F 428F. Close? If it's not as accurate at higher temps you may have to tune to a higher temp where it's most accurate for your favorite temp range (coil instability) by manipulating the TCR. Our friend the Algo PID can play a role here too. Many factors and more tinkering may be needed for more precision. Depends how determined you are.

Keep in mind, as you said coil temp doesn't equal chamber temp. chamber can be cooler or much hotter depending on other variables and your settings. After you have the real temp at coil set accurately or close now you can tweak TCR a little up or down to tune chamber. Goal is if 356F (displayed on mod) but really some other temp is at coil. As an example 365F or 346F (at coil) so the extra +/-10F can conduct into the chamber and stem load to compensate so it will be actually be 356F in there for a short time after X seconds. You can test your theory of +30F more in chamber over a certain amount of time to get there. Need to know some things like what's that time? Coil accurate but chamber +30F at 30 seconds? 45 seconds? And then how much to compensate without hurting performance time to set temp. It's a time consuming process, lol. It may be easier to just get close and raise the cruising temp a tad for more agressive heating results.

 

[GoldenBud]

DEFINE THE VARIABLES

R1=The current live resistance of the coil in ohms at this point in time after heating for some amount of time or not (cruising for 30 seconds) according to mod sensing/detection

R2=The cold resistance value in ohms of the coil at room temp (COLD locked resistance of coil) according to mod sensing/detection and locked in by user for algorithm reference to calculate current temp of coil

where did you study that R2 is the cold and R1 is the hot temp? it's always 2>1 so 2 is the hotter.. T2 is always the hot temp, T1 is the cold..
or T1 for hot, T0 for cold.. in all the courses being teached in the universities/colleges..
not saying you're right or wrong, but want to know

and i'm not sure that tiny coil of ss316l gets the same TCR value as the huge coil of BAKx, dunno, doesn't make sense to me, still trying to search it online and can't get a certain answer

 

[n0tu2]

I never went to school for this, lol. Mods didn't exist when they wrote those text books. Evolv created temp control in the sub-ohm mod world and adapted it for these purposes. That's why none of it makes sense when reading those explanations on engineering type websites because they are talking about using it for other purposes,. not vaping the devils lettuce. It just works like magic. Believe

 

[GoldenBud]

I never went to school for this, lol. Mods didn't exist when they wrote those text books. Evolv created temp control in the sub-ohm mod world and adapted it for these purposes. That's why none of it makes sense when reading those explanations on engineering type websites because they are talking about using it for other purposes,. not vaping the devils lettuce. It just works like magic. Believe

FYI everytime you have T2 and T1, the T2 is hotter. same with T1 and T0.... and R2 to R1, R1 to R0....
I am still looking to see how the weight/volume of the coil affect TCR value, well, we know that TUBO/TETRA need TCR 185 because it's not 1 coil, but 3 or 4, so the TCR is higher, but I think because the BAKx is bigger and has much more volume than the tiny ss316l coil it's also around 185, still looking....

 

[n0tu2]

Keep researching! I'll listen. Always want to learn something new.. but remember TCR is just a co-efficient, a multiplier of the cold resistance like in algebra 3x + 4x .....3 and 4 are the co-efficients..what is that TCR multiplier for your coil.. part of the quest! sure you can set any number to TCR 184 185 186 within reason and then tune to it by lowering the cold resistance .22 and then .02 up or down at a time till you get to a temp you like. That simple! Is it right or wrong..? I don't know.. There are two sides and two theories/views on how to approach it. Neither are probably wrong.

 

[Fesob_31]

The Temperature coefficient of resistance (TCR) is the calculation of a relative change of resistance per degree of temperature change - in the range of use.
Mass is not in the equation.
TC stands for Temperature Control but reads as Resistance control.
The resistance of the coil (resistive metal) changes when power is applied.
The power in time to get the coil in working condition has almost nothing to do with a “chosen“ TCR. The power needed to get in working conditions can be delivered with almost any TCR (not negative) and in power mode too.
The coil is just a part of the system and understanding how to drive the coil is just the beginning of the journey.
The system BAKx works through convective, conductive and radiant heat, there is mass involved and it’s dynamic, during the draw.
Firmwares and softwares available have limitations and it could be wise for the maker to skip some math feticism, and get a better overall user experience. (Here I am not saying that corrections have been applied or needed).

I’d like the theory to be discuss in a different thread and leave this thread to be more about techniques, accessories, hints, real user experience, cause the last pages are pita even for someone enjoying the theory.

 

[Shit Snacks]

100% agree this thread has become a total turn off and I fear the same for others ... Yeah it should just be about using BAK really

 

[Grass Yes]

100% agree this thread has become a total turn off and I fear the same for others ... Yeah it should just be about using BAK really

Yeah, that captures well what I was thinking. All this talk of TCR and resistance makes the BAKx seem way more complicated than it is. I do think there is fun technique with this one, but the mod settings are the least interesting part. Although maybe this is a secret ploy to reduce demand to make drops easier

 

[Cheebsy]

Personally I've really enjoyed the recent more technical posts. I'm familiar with some mod stuff but I found that really interesting! Horses for courses....

 

[zeus420]

Finaly!!! got the Sofware on my DNA
thanks for the help guys!!

gonna enjoy some biig big Hits with my BAK

arw the Stock settings good/perfect? 70Watts 420 seconds

greez
Zeus

 

[passenger]

Dialling in the Bakx is not a hard thing to do, don't be scared off by some in depth discussions. In my experience a cheap needle thermometer is needed to get it exactly done.

For example mine runs the recommended 30C hotter on the inner walls than shown on the display. If I set it to 190C and let the load bake for 30 seconds it delivers a single hit like no other portable I know. That is a serious heater, it's safe, all glass and very consistent.

 

[hoyo77]

Dialling in the Bakx is not a hard thing to do, don't be scared off by some in depth discussions. In my experience a cheap needle thermometer is needed to get it exactly done.

For example mine runs the recommended 30C hotter on the inner walls than shown on the display. If I set it to 190C and let the load bake for 30 seconds it delivers a single hit like no other portable I know. That is a serious heater, it's safe, all glass and very consistent.

Which is the main reason i dropped mine down to 180C, kinda got tired of picking myself up of the floor and putting my lungs back in after coughing them out. The BakX is a beast. It delivers, have not tried hash yet, never really done hash before but i want some cause the BakX can bake the fuck out of it!!

 

[RedZep]

I'm a bit intimidated by all this. Not sure I'll be jumping in. Just want to say though that I love the design of a glass piece wrapped in a coil for conduction heating. I hope we see this more in the future.

 

[gordontreeman]

I'm a bit intimidated by all this. Not sure I'll be jumping in. Just want to say though that I love the design of a glass piece wrapped in a coil for conduction heating. I hope we see this more in the future.

It really isn't that bad at all. Some of the more involved conversations aren't necessary to pay attention to or think about at all, and you aren't missing anything by not going through them--I am not even convinced that having your displayed temp perfectly match your coil temp is what you should be aiming for withe Bakx or any other vape (you probably want the air temp as it goes over your bud, but I think we would need a separate temp probe for this).

That being said, if you are totally computer illiterate or not at all savvy it is certainly more involved than a Tinymight or a Mighty. However, all you really need to do is install the Bakx profile (DNA) or the Tubo firmware and lock the cold resistance. The last part just consists of clicking a button on the mod prior to use so that it can detect the resistance of the Bakx.

If you still think its too much that is fair--and I guess one less person to compete with in the drops! I just wanted to clarify that it really shouldn't be that intimidating. Read Lamart's manual to get a more accurate depiction of what 99.99% of users will be doing.

 

[RedZep]

It really isn't that bad at all. Some of the more involved conversations aren't necessary to pay attention to or think about at all, and you aren't missing anything by not going through them--I am not even convinced that having your displayed temp perfectly match your coil temp is what you should be aiming for withe Bakx or any other vape (you probably want the air temp as it goes over your bud, but I think we would need a separate temp probe for this).

That being said, if you are totally computer illiterate or not at all savvy it is certainly more involved than a Tinymight or a Mighty. However, all you really need to do is install the Bakx profile (DNA) or the Tubo firmware and lock the cold resistance. The last part just consists of clicking a button on the mod prior to use so that it can detect the resistance of the Bakx.

If you still think its too much that is fair--and I guess one less person to compete with in the drops! I just wanted to clarify that it really shouldn't be that intimidating. Read Lamart's manual to get a more accurate depiction of what 99.99% of users will be doing.

That's fair. So it's a complexity that is by choice, but not required. I'll keep an open mind then. Won't be jumping in soon, but I will keep on eye on the thread.