Jah75
Well-Known Member
10:1 it goes to March. This seems to be following the same story as the original M22 drop
AVS m22
- Thread starter Deleted Member 1643
- Start date
tennisguru1
EXCELSIOR!
Fwiw, at least some v2 escc and some of the chinese-made mods are arriving this week and v2 zirc is in-house today. End of March is when I myself will begin to look for American-made versions of all three pieces. I'm actually rather surprised by how fast the change to USA mfg is taking place.
"The V2 ESCC – We received a very limited batch of the Chinese made V2 ESCC. We will begin shipping these today. If you do not want the Chinese made one and would rather wait for the American made version, you must contact us so we can add a note to your order. We do not expect the American made version to be ready until late March. We will be receiving more of the Chinese made V2 ESCC, enough for everyone and then some, around the end of this month. We also are finding some out of spec units in this batch and so wattage only ESCC will be available again while supplies last."
Wow, that's quite an upgrade!
Unfortunately my M22 still sits in the graveyard as I simply cannot get a reply from anyone who works there.
To everyone else: this looks pretty fun
Unfortunately my M22 still sits in the graveyard as I simply cannot get a reply from anyone who works there.
To everyone else: this looks pretty fun
Should be in my hands by Wednesday.Wow, that's quite an upgrade!
Unfortunately my M22 still sits in the graveyard as I simply cannot get a reply from anyone who works there.
To everyone else: this looks pretty fun
I suggest their site chat. Open your message with "Hey STUART... ". If no joy, maybe pm me. Maybe I can get their attention......
Lest I forget - product and availability updates are now done via their website m22 blog, not reddit.
tennisguru1
EXCELSIOR!
Molecule22 Blog
Deleted Member 1643
Well-Known Member
Can't wait! Plan on treating the upgrade more gently.
tennisguru1
EXCELSIOR!
Thanks for the detailed review. I’m ready to pull the trigger and order my first M22 ESCC. I just picked up a Dovpo Odin Mini DNA25c. But I saw comments about the M22 ESCC being too unstable to use with a DNA box mod without generating errors. Your review is encouraging. But should I get rid of the DNA25c and buy the AVS $150 custom box mod instead?
Glad you found it useful!
Resistance stability of the escc is very good. What often isn't is clip and escc installation - which manifests as odd resistance behavior, same as any poor connection. Clip and escc installation has been an issue for some users and most are convinced they're "doing it right" so escc gets blamed. Fwiw, I've got osteoarthritis in my hands, mild hand tremors, and bad eyes - takes me under a minute per clip and I regularly go 8 to 12 weeks between clip changes, with literally 0 change in cold resistance and no TC oddities. So it's absolutely a matter of getting clip/escc installation techniques just right. It's more a case of the required details being subtle than being hard. A calm patient sober approach is key, while getting it down. Don't sweat wasting some clips - using it with sloppy clips is poor practice and increases the likelihood of future oddball resistance related stuff.
Use with DNA mods is highly recommended, at this time. I use them with excellent results, myself. The AVS Control Tower should be better still and reportedly has features no other mod has ever had. Being designed for OUR use rather than vape juice almost guarantees it. We'll see... I'll be testing the Chinese beta as well as the American made, when they're each released. My best guess, based on information I have, is that the CT will be worth the $150. Better board design, better board components, aircraft aluminum case, most sophisticated firmware/features (self-calibrating tfr for escc! )...and all American made. Nothing else like it, at any price. Assuming it meets the claims, it'll be a steal at $150 imo.
All of that said, an Eleaf iStick Pico does a decent job, too. Lots of truly viable possibilities!
florduh
Well-Known Member
I thought I've been following this thing pretty closely, but seeing the m22 used as a wax pen, an "e-rig", and as an e-nail... easily switching between them, really demonstrated the value of this thing. And a lot of people seem to hate Brent. I dunno. He comes off as a pretty genuine, nerdy hash-head. Compared to someone like Puffco Roger's streams which always gave me used car salesman vibes.
I've been using the redesigned zirconia dish for a couple weeks now on my Pico. It sort of solved the only issue I've had with it: clip installation. The bigger dish looks even easier.
thevapist
Well-Known Member
Brother, just wait, it will be changed to April. I was laughed at for calling 2021 over a year ago as well. It's too confusing to even keep track of what these dates mean now. Is that end of April just the Chinese batch? Because there is no way they're already producing here. I'm about ready to call 2022 for fulfillment of all outstanding orders. Anyone want to bet? Lol.
Why do people even want this? I was originally interested in direct energized SiC for portable usage, but most people seem to be using the whole kit with bubbler etc. Why? There are so many better desktop options for cheaper. Their coils were nice the few times I ordered, but they have shown to be incompetent at this point. I couldn't imagine having an actual warranty issue with these people on a mod or something. I recognize some of you from the VROD thread. How high do I have to be to want to use this frankenstein battery powered setup over my VROD? I believe when I preordered, it was just the mod and m22. I don't even remember the other stuff. Scope creep caused quality issues and huge delays on these products.
and @invertedisdead is 100% correct, these people are impossible to reach. You have to hunt them down to get updates or figure out what is going on. It's just flat out bad communication/support and they deserve to be called out for it. I'm not the only one either, their reddit is just controlled by them and most negative stuff gets nuked.
Yes, I'm frustrated. And I have every right to be after waiting a year plus and cancelling, and now watching them months later just change dates and string people along. I rooted for these guys and owned some of their other stuff. But I waited a year+ to be told the "paint wasn't sticking correctly so I would get stainless" and that it "only supported USB-A to USB-C charging because of an error but we will probably fix it in the US version who knows how long from now". It's unacceptable. I hope people realize how long it will take them to get their US operation setup, whatever that's even about. After waiting so long why would I want the Chinese one anyway? These people are like that bad ex who always had excuses
Wait until PMTA/shipping ban are the next hot excuses.
EDIT: And I'm over looking at the latest reddit "update" to see this same guy astroturfing. How much is Brent paying you @Olde7? I'm here to balance out spinners like you.
The scariest part of the future is the battle for control of information on the internet. My lord.
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Don't know what to tell you. While I understand your frustration (and I DO), you cancelled? Events subsequent no longer affect you directly? And now you imply I'm a paid employee, out of your frustration?Brother, just wait, it will be changed to April. I was laughed at for calling 2021 over a year ago as well. It's too confusing to even keep track of what these dates mean now. Is that end of April just the Chinese batch? Because there is no way they're already producing here. I'm about ready to call 2022 for fulfillment of all outstanding orders. Anyone want to bet? Lol.
Why do people even want this? I was originally interested in direct energized SiC for portable usage, but most people seem to be using the whole kit with bubbler etc. Why? There are so many better desktop options for cheaper. Their coils were nice the few times I ordered, but they have shown to be incompetent at this point. I couldn't imagine having an actual warranty issue with these people on a mod or something. I recognize some of you from the VROD thread. How high do I have to be to want to use this frankenstein battery powered setup over my VROD? I believe when I preordered, it was just the mod and m22. I don't even remember the other stuff. Scope creep caused quality issues and huge delays on these products.
and @invertedisdead is 100% correct, these people are impossible to reach. You have to hunt them down to get updates or figure out what is going on. It's just flat out bad communication/support and they deserve to be called out for it. I'm not the only one either, their reddit is just controlled by them and most negative stuff gets nuked.
Yes, I'm frustrated. And I have every right to be after waiting a year plus and cancelling, and now watching them months later just change dates and string people along. I rooted for these guys and owned some of their other stuff. But I waited a year+ to be told the "paint wasn't sticking correctly so I would get stainless" and that it "only supported USB-A to USB-C charging because of an error but we will probably fix it in the US version who knows how long from now". It's unacceptable. I hope people realize how long it will take them to get their US operation setup, whatever that's even about. After waiting so long why would I want the Chinese one anyway? These people are like that bad ex who always had excuses
Wait until PMTA/shipping ban are the next hot excuses.
EDIT: And I'm over looking at the latest reddit "update" to see this same guy astroturfing. How much is Brent paying you @Olde7? I'm here to balance out spinners like you.
The scariest part of the future is the battle for control of information on the internet. My lord.
Mr, I didn't piss in your wheaties. And while it's absolutely none of your business, I'm not now nor have I ever been employed by any vape mfgr, AVS included. Other than early access, I do not profit from being a tester - all product that I test, if it survives, gets given away to some local unable to afford expensive toys. If I like a product enough, I buy it at the same price everone else pays. Not even a discount.
You're going after the wrong guy, and after you gave up your vested interest at that. And bringing your reddit drama here. Even to the point of exaggerating the degree of moderator activity.... It's almost unmoderated, in fact. The most recent negative post thread was deleted by its author, not a moderator - to my certain knowledge.
Sorry you dislike AVS, and sorry I can't help you, but as a redditor that has clearly followed the goings on, you alteady knew I'm the wrong guy.... Makes me wonder which of my reddit 'fans' you are, to be coming here with that drama. Personal vendetta BS....
My apologies to the moderators. It would appear that the hostility and toxicity that so many here dislike about reddit has followed me here. It's unfortunate someone has taken it upon themselves to spread that crap here.
Deleted Member 1643
Well-Known Member
Nope, the web site now says (for just the ESCC): This is available on backorder and will ship around March 12th. So, for the record, it's not just pasted.
More worried about the shipping ban. Some small nicotine vape and crossover companies are already ceasing operations. ASFAIK, AVS hasn't addressed, but IMO the ban will apply to their Control Tower, at least. Don't know if they can get around it - hope it ships before the postal/private carrier bans take effect. An exemption doesn't make sense, because when nicotine vapers can no longer have box mods shipped, AVS (or any cannabis company that sells box mods for their vapes) would have an unfair advantage. (That said, it may be too much to expect the mail ban to make any sense.)
Not sure how much of the delays are AVS' fault. Maybe changes in marketing like crowdsourcing have created an environment where manufacturers feel compelled to release products earlier that they would traditionally. And it really is an entirely new technology that works extremely well. Don't have a VROD, but from time to time break out the D-nail SiC HALO rig. Always go back to the ESCC right away. Still excited about the v2 upgrades and CT.
florduh
Well-Known Member
For me personally, I want this thing because I enjoy using wax pens. I'm a dry boy. I prefer not using a water piece 99% of the time. I want something that delivers low temp, tasty hash rosin hits when I'm sitting in my backyard. The m22 is the best option I've found for that use case. This might be a minority opinion, since it seems like most people dab through water.
It's also the first crucible wax pen that can somewhat compete with carts for portability. I double click my shitty 8 year old mod, and I get vapor about as fast as a cartridge.
I'm not personally interested in the whole e-nail setup. But as to why someone would pick this kind of setup over a traditional e-nail: not everyone wants to leave an exposed 500° heating element on for hours. Especially when they're gonna be inebriated. With a m22 "e-nail" setup, it goes from room temp to vaporization temp in seconds. Then the thing is cool a minute later. Is there a market for this sort of setup? I dunno. Guess we'll find out.
From my perspective, AVS's biggest sin was simply not being upfront that this was basically a crowdfunding operation from the start. People would probably be more generous waiting 2 years for a Kickstarter to pay out than they are with a "preorder". Also a lot of the AVS issues started making more sense once I realized "AVS"= like 3 dudes.
I suppose the whole thing could be a big scam. But I feel like there are better grifts to get into than the "energized SiC" game. Personally, I've already received exactly what I paid for. It's transformed my beat up old Pico into the best dabbing device I've owned. The only cordless option that might compete is the newest Peak. But then I'm stuck with having a built in bubbler I'd prefer not to use. And I don't live in the most friendly State anymore. Using a little toilet bong outside in FL would give me anxiety. With the m22/Pico I just look like a Nic Vaping d-bag.
I'm on a few Nicotine vape shop email lists. Several have already said they're putting together a network of alternative shippers. My guess is, it will be way more expensive than even Fedex. Also, if you live in the boonies you're probably fucked.
Hamilton Devices, a distributor of CCELL products, claims they will be unaffected by the bans. Their products were "never meant for nicotine". Watching the AVS livestream, someone asked if the Control Tower could be used for Nic atomizers. Brent said "probably not. Everything has been tuned for the M22. We haven't even tested it with nicotine atomizers." So maybe they're just going to try and get away with it. Risky. Hamilton Devices doesn't have VAPE right in their name.
It's also the first crucible wax pen that can somewhat compete with carts for portability. I double click my shitty 8 year old mod, and I get vapor about as fast as a cartridge.
I'm not personally interested in the whole e-nail setup. But as to why someone would pick this kind of setup over a traditional e-nail: not everyone wants to leave an exposed 500° heating element on for hours. Especially when they're gonna be inebriated. With a m22 "e-nail" setup, it goes from room temp to vaporization temp in seconds. Then the thing is cool a minute later. Is there a market for this sort of setup? I dunno. Guess we'll find out.
From my perspective, AVS's biggest sin was simply not being upfront that this was basically a crowdfunding operation from the start. People would probably be more generous waiting 2 years for a Kickstarter to pay out than they are with a "preorder". Also a lot of the AVS issues started making more sense once I realized "AVS"= like 3 dudes.
I suppose the whole thing could be a big scam. But I feel like there are better grifts to get into than the "energized SiC" game. Personally, I've already received exactly what I paid for. It's transformed my beat up old Pico into the best dabbing device I've owned. The only cordless option that might compete is the newest Peak. But then I'm stuck with having a built in bubbler I'd prefer not to use. And I don't live in the most friendly State anymore. Using a little toilet bong outside in FL would give me anxiety. With the m22/Pico I just look like a Nic Vaping d-bag.
I'm on a few Nicotine vape shop email lists. Several have already said they're putting together a network of alternative shippers. My guess is, it will be way more expensive than even Fedex. Also, if you live in the boonies you're probably fucked.
Hamilton Devices, a distributor of CCELL products, claims they will be unaffected by the bans. Their products were "never meant for nicotine". Watching the AVS livestream, someone asked if the Control Tower could be used for Nic atomizers. Brent said "probably not. Everything has been tuned for the M22. We haven't even tested it with nicotine atomizers." So maybe they're just going to try and get away with it. Risky. Hamilton Devices doesn't have VAPE right in their name.
I hope that's settled. If not it can be taken to a private conversation. Please do not imply that a member is a shill. It's not cool and breaks our Be Nice rules.
If someone has actual evidence that suggests astroturfing they can reach out to a staff member.
Thanks.
VapeEnthusiast
Troy's Army
Man, I followed this project very closely on reddit when it first started but I'm literally a year+ behind in info. I don't even really care at this point - the concept was always solid and the only task to be done was to work out TC and consistency issues it seemed.
I'm thinking about jumping onboard and getting one of these before the ban. How is everyone's M22 holding up?
I'm thinking about jumping onboard and getting one of these before the ban. How is everyone's M22 holding up?
Peepyopee
Member
I have an M22 with an OOS ESCC. It heats about 3 times faster than the DTV4 with SIC, and it delivers great flavor/clouds. I would say when it comes to heating and efficiency that the ESCC is first in class. However, AVS uses a spring clip system to directly energize the ESCC, and that was the deal breaker that made me cancel my control tower and TC ESCC pre-order. I would have gotten the Chinese and American control tower too, but I still canceled.
The spring clips last about 2 weeks to a month depending on your device use and maintenance. I know there have been some design changes in the newest ESCC and its zirc housing, but resistance creep is a constant concern. Proper maintenance will limit this problem, but the inevitable creep will come. The spring clips are really are the main design flaw in my opinion, and my biggest issue is that it ends up being a cost to the consumer. Everyone ends up throwing away bent spring clips that they paid money for and never used. Unfortunately, the response from AVS and the M22 crowd is usually "you don't do spring clip right". However, the protocol for installation is in no way robust and very "feel" based.
If AVS can create a system to energize their ESCC using a less wasteful system than the spring clips, I think it would increase the user friendliness and customer base significantly. Compared to the M22 ESCC, the DTV4 is just so much more reliable IMO.
VapeEnthusiast
Troy's Army
Are these standard clips? Or unique to AVS? Worried about longevity in the Era of ultra-prohibition.
Peepyopee
Member
100% proprietary unfortunately.
Fwiw, mine are holding up very well. I have all versions of the escc and zirc. 10 to 12 weeks on a set of clips. My temperature control v1 escc + v3 zirc has shown 0 resistance rise, after 3 months daily use. I have both oos and tc v2 escc, but haven't had them long enough to say that they are capable of similar resistance stability, but I haven't seen any creep over the past month.
Most, if not all, issues with clips/zirc/resistance have been pretty effectively dealt with, ime. You still need to do clips correctly, watch load-size, and not suck like a Hoover - but what's currently shipping is greatly improved imo.... And I loved it before the improved bits.
Hope this helps!
Most, if not all, issues with clips/zirc/resistance have been pretty effectively dealt with, ime. You still need to do clips correctly, watch load-size, and not suck like a Hoover - but what's currently shipping is greatly improved imo.... And I loved it before the improved bits.
Hope this helps!
VapeEnthusiast
Troy's Army
Thanks for the write-up! What mod were you using? Were you using the TC version of the ESCC? TIA!
I appreciate this write up too!
Peepyopee
Member
I only have an OOS version ESCC. So, I only ran wattage mode. When I used it more often, I ran it on a pico 75w or an evic basic with AF.
I hear and see great things about the v2/v3 TC ESCC, but I don't know how many people have actually received them outside of reviewers or influencers.
VapeEnthusiast
Troy's Army
Is the current PO that's up the first official batch of non-beta units? Or have there been others?
Does anybody know when the next batch is due to arrive, roughly?
Also - I'm assuming the TC version works with the non-proprietary mod, correct? I have a DNA mod.