AVS m22

thevapist

Well-Known Member
I remember being laughed at when I called summer 2020 for the mod, and this was before all the fuss. I don't think people realize how long these things take.

Looking like it won't even be ready by then, though. I'd question a 2020 release for the mod at all with the info we have. Who knows what the rest of 2020 holds in regards to the "FUSS".
 

JCat

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
I remember being laughed at when I called summer 2020 for the mod, and this was before all the fuss. I don't think people realize how long these things take.

Looking like it won't even be ready by then, though. I'd question a 2020 release for the mod at all with the info we have. Who knows what the rest of 2020 holds in regards to the "FUSS".
I'm still anxiously awaiting the ESCC let alone the mod :lol: ... can't wait to finally get a shipping notice ... and then the couple/few weeks wait for it to get here ...
 

Herbie Hancock

The 60 Second Assasin
August 13th preorder. Still no update. I wonder if they are sending new Essc’s out randomly. Or if they are “trying” to do it In order.

Cause I can’t understand why I haven’t got the email for the working ESCC for my Blu unit ordered in August 13.

at this rate I’ll never receive my second working ESCC for the purple unit ordered in September.
What a joke
 

tennisguru1

EXCELSIOR!
August 13th preorder. Still no update. I wonder if they are sending new Essc’s out randomly. Or if they are “trying” to do it In order.

Cause I can’t understand why I haven’t got the email for the working ESCC for my Blu unit ordered in August 13.

at this rate I’ll never receive my second working ESCC for the purple unit ordered in September.
What a joke
From Brent at AVS: Re-post from Reddit
VapeMore4Less 6 points 1 day ago

No, just getting to August 10th, but from here the process will be much faster. Most orders were on the 8th and 9th of August. Everyone will get the email within a week though. If by Friday of next week you haven't heard from me then there is an issue with my email being sent to spam or something and then you should reach out to me directly, through email.

Thank you for being patient, I promise it's worth it!
 

sirwalter

Well-Known Member
August 13th preorder. Still no update. I wonder if they are sending new Essc’s out randomly. Or if they are “trying” to do it In order.

Cause I can’t understand why I haven’t got the email for the working ESCC for my Blu unit ordered in August 13.

at this rate I’ll never receive my second working ESCC for the purple unit ordered in September.
What a joke

Same deal here, still no email. Can't say I'm surprised at this point.

Joke is right.
 
sirwalter,

tennisguru1

EXCELSIOR!
Same deal here, still no email. Can't say I'm surprised at this point.

Joke is right.

Shipping on or around June 4th... by l3oosh in AdvancedVapeSupply



[–]VapeMore4Less[M] [score hidden] 20 hours ago stickied comment
Unfortunately that batch has not arrived yet. The factory that did the gold plating went out of business due to the coronavirus. This resulted in a delay. We found a new factory and the escc is being shipped to us this week, so they will ship later this week or the beginning of next week.
I apologize for the delay, and assure you we're doing all we can to expedite the process while still making sure to allow for adequate qc.
With that said, our ESCC production is going great despite the minor hiccup with the gold plating. That is the easiest and shortest part of the process. Machining is where this is difficult and the most time consuming. We have another 300 esccs just about to finish and then our factory will start on 1000. The batch of 300 will take care of people ordering the escc now. We'll have a surplus of esccs by the end of this month!





#41848/Aug 13 (M22/ESCC) by vapingOregon in AdvancedVapeSupply


[–]VapeMore4Less 1 point 1 day ago
Be on the lookout for your email today!



#41848/Aug 13 (M22/ESCC) by vapingOregon in AdvancedVapeSupply


[–]VapeMore4Less 2 points 1 day ago
Be on the lookout for your email today!



#41848/Aug 13 (M22/ESCC) by vapingOregon in AdvancedVapeSupply


[–]VapeMore4Less 2 points 1 day ago
Yes, you'll get the email today likely!

here is where its at...
BTW.. to source materials & manufacturing here in USA would have pushed cost near $1000
for the finished package. I'm just hoping I can get a second one so I can leave one hooked up
to my fav 14mm banger and another for portability & tasty terpy hits without water.
Getting complicated managing mods for DT4 , now soon DT4 Sic cup separate atty & mod?
Going to need a spreadsheet soon lol

No one is happy with Virus, shutdown, tariffs, shipping delays, ect...
I'm just trying to help by passing on info Good Luck & stay safe everyone our lungs are #1

This is from Brent.... if you want to follow what's going on thread on Reddit





Why does the future have to cost some damn much money!!! I'm going to be broke by the time the mod come around for pre-order! Hahahaha stoked to get my mits on this smooth boy. by coducus in AdvancedVapeSupply


[–]VapeMore4Less 6 points 3 days ago
No worries, I myself would be skeptical as a customer too. Nothing wrong with being a cautious consumer especially in an industry with a history of overpricing and under delivering. My hope is that as you come to get to know AVS and how we operate you won't have any worries in the future. Our goal has always been to deliver the best quality at the best price possible, while also pioneering new technologies. The ESCC is insanely expensive to make but 100% worth it. We can't wait for everyone to get it and have no doubt this is the best by far in this industry and is the future of dabbing.


My personal belief is Brent at AVS & Matt at DT are two of our vape developers.
 

Olde7

Electronic Vaporist
M22 Final test and review, as posted on reddit. Pt. 1

First things first - the m22/bubbler (and final ESCC plus upgrade parts) tested here were received free of charge for testing and critical reviewing purposes. I have also purchased a second m22 plus silicone base kit, with the intention of gifting the free unit to some local person unable to afford one - as I've done with all other products I've tested and reviewed. Outside of the opportunity to try it a little earlier than I would have otherwise, I will not profit from testing this.

All testing was done on my LostVape Therion DNA 75c, YiHi ML class, and Eleaf Pico75 unless otherwise noted.

This review is focused almost entirely on m22 use with the ESCC since that is its main reason for existing. However, coil use is an option - so I'll get that out of the way...

The m22 is supplied with an alumina-ceramic cup specifically intended for use with the supplied (it comes with 10 coils) flattened oct-core clapton coils. With the updated cup (standard in the final. Supplied free to early adopters) fit is perfect and installation is easy, even with my poor eyesight and shakey hands. Performance is excellent. Temperature control in SS316L mode is superb, imo. Accuracy of +/- 10°f according to my thermocouple. Flavor is likewise very good - best flavor from a coil I've personally experienced. Vapor density is also very good, tho it's worth noting that, as with all coils, very high-density vapor comes at a slight cost in flavor. Other coil styles (barrel, accordion, etc) can be used too, tho you'll sacrifice the advantages offered by the flattened coil. Reclaim is minimal with the supplied coils and is less of an issue than with my other coiled attys for a couple reasons. One is that, with correct load size, the coil wicks everything I load and very little can 'run away' from the hot coil because it vaporizes before that can happen - flattened coils tend to do this better than other styles. The other is there are fewer nooks/crannies for vapor to get into. My other rebuildables use more bits and pieces in their design with more opportunities for reclaim infiltration into places it doesn't belong. A full teardown and iso cleaning is much easier with the m22, ime. Worth mentioning - like *all* complex-wire (clapton, twisted, staple, etc) coils, rosin use will irretrievably gunk coils *much* faster than solvent-based extract. Flower rosin being the worst offender....

Fortunately, the ESCC is ideal for *all* rosin. Much better than any coil and better than any other existing bucket (more on that below).

Tech stuff: tested on dna75c and pico75 with AVS-supplied custom TFR temperature control; on a Yihi ML class and pico75 using AVS-supplied TCR value 123 - 127. 40 to 50 watts. Pre-heat used - 150% of set power, temp (400°f) or time (2 seconds) limited according to the mods abilities. Cold resistance on mine is 0.685 ohm on a clean deck with correctly installed new clips. Temperature for tc accuracy testing was 470°F to allow both thermocouple and cotton-singe tests. BHO crumble, BHO shatter, distillate, thc-a crystalline, and home-pressed flower rosin were used for 'live' tests. Tests took place over a 20 day period and were done under real-life daily use conditions (this ain't no lab... Lol).

I'll get my sole real area of complaint out of the way - the spring clips. Unless installed just right (not deformed by getting cocked while 'driving it home' etc ) resistance can be inconsistent. Careful installation is a **must**. *On mine*, if cold resistance reads 0.8 ohm or higher with new clips and/or the cold value shifts more than about 0.1 after a few loads - I've probably got clip installation issues (or overloading). 90% of the time I get it right - considering my hands shake, I consider that to be an adequate success rate. Something a bit more 'macro' would be good, tho. Because vapor inevitably condenses on every surface it's exposed to, some does end-up on the ESCC legs. This is the main reason for resistance shifts requiring cleaning/clip replacement. When used with either the bubbler or a BB, this happens sooner than with the top-cap - vapor is blocked from that area by incoming air with the top-cap but fully fills the area with bubbler/BB. Regardless of your preferred method of use, clip replacement is going to be required on a regular basis as a part of normal maintenance. Probably at least as often as iso soaking and/or post-hole cleaning (I don't reuse clips once removed, and thorough cleaning requires it) - how often depends mostly on load control and controlling draw-speed. Insist on 4 huge clouds per load (like many demo vids depict) and frequent deep cleaning/clip replacement *is* required, ime. Not surprising since loads like that amount to misuse - not being layg uncooked-grain-of-rice sized, as recommended.
 

Olde7

Electronic Vaporist
M22 Final test and review pt. 2

Temperature control - this is where the ESCC really shines. First, it is heated by current flow thru the bucket itself - making the bucket and heater one and the same. It does not use an embedded heater nor does it sit on top of a separate heating-element nor does it use inductive heating - **all** other buckets use one of those 3 methods, with most sitting on a heating-element. It is impossible to achieve temperature control with any of those. The best they can offer is a way to limit power button pulsing thru use of a temperature control mode on the mod powering their buckets. Wysiwyg temp control never happens with any of them. 150°f to as much as 500°f above set temp is fairly normal. ESCC allows very good temperature control, according to my tests. Effectively WYSIWYG, which was unheard of, previously. Using the AVS-supplied custom TFR on my DNA75C yields +/- 20°f accuracy consistently on my thermocouple and gives consistent cotton-singe results over +/- 10°f set-temperature range. Add approximately 10°f to those figures for the same tests done with my Pico75. Thermocouple tests show similar accuracy from 380°f thru 500°f. TCR tests on my YiHi and Pico gave best accuracy with a tcr value of 127 on the Pico and 130 on the YiHi. Best accuracy fell between 410°f and 480°f for YiHi and between 425°f and 460°f for Pico - +/- 25° for YiHi and +/- 35° for Pico. This kind of accuracy compares favorably with good tc in SS or Ti coils - very very impressive considering how far off other buckets are. Worth noting is that subjective performance is excellent well outside of the temperature ranges stated here. I expect the AVS mod will be noticeably more accurate and consistent, tho I can't know until I get one to test...

The final ESCC itself is greatly improved over the og and 'interim' versions. More precise dimensionally for better fit. Smoother finish on the legs with better plating than even the 'interim' version, which was orders of magnitude better than the og. For long-term consistency, this is a big improvement. Overall, the ESCC appears to be nearly indestructible - I've been pretty rough with the test unit with no indication it was in danger of breaking. I suspect careless use of metal tools in cleaning or handling could scratch, chip, or even shatter an ESCC - but considerable force would be required. Using force to insert and seat the legs in the clips when they're (the legs) not lined-up correctly is the most likely way for breakage to occur.

In use, I literally hold the power button until just before I stop drawing and get consistent vapor quality/density within 2 seconds with no evidence of overheating - no scorching or off-flavors. The worst I get is a light 'glaze' when I jack the temperature way up or neglect to swab the bucket before it's completely dry. A drop or two of distilled water boiled in the bucket plus a swab takes care of that nicely. Bear in mind, this applies to temp control operation - it's fairly easy to scorch in wattage mode, as is the case with all attys.

The silicone base kit paired with the YiHi and bubbler fits almost right - well enough that the pkg (with tether and bumper-bands) has hit the floor, from tabletop-height, 5 times without breakage or individual parts separating. Both bubbler and silicone parts are well made - mine are very sturdy and fit/finish are excellent, just like the m22 itself. Lol, I did chip the tip of the mouthpiece by getting heavy-handed with a bottle brush - I hope AVS plans to sell spares! Regardless, the AVS mod will fit even better. For me, the worst aspect of the bubbler are the holes in the down-tube. They clog easily when using it without water, my preference. Of course, it *is* a water piece and as such those holes are fine. This isn't a complaint - just a comment pertinent to users like me that prefer dry. Overall I find the bubbler to be very nice. ☺


My conclusion at this point is: this is a one-of-a-kind device. Nothing else available or about to be available can do actual temperature control - kludged devices recommending a tc-mode deliver wannabe tc that requires power pulsing and/or deliver bucket temps greatly in excess of what was set. Thus making it nearly impossible to accurately choose vaping temps - accuracy being fairly important for medical users, this delivers *excellent* temperature control; build quality and fit/finish are excellent; it allows both high-quality coil use as well as ESCC use; accessories fit correctly ime with more on the way (some of which are such good ideas they have already been knocked-off by opportunistic competitors. Not talking about private parties, here). Altogether, a real accomplishment of innovation and engineering. It's *not* perfect, as noted above - but it comes far closer to perfection than anything else available or announced as being in development. My guess is that it'll be awhile before anything comes around that can compete - and I'm told AVS has things being developed that adress the issues I've mentioned and further improve function. Possibly a dedicated ESCC-only device....


Edit: for more information and links to dl TFR files and DNA specific material profile see my post history. Instructions for TFR file use with Arctic Fox and Red Panda can be found there along with other misc info.

Also, sry this turned into a novel...

Hope this is useful. Enjoy!
 
Last edited:

tennisguru1

EXCELSIOR!
Repost from Brent at AVS

M22 Final test review by Olde7 in AdvancedVapeSupply


[–]VapeMore4Less [score hidden] 34 minutes ago
You guys are both making your points clear. Olde is right about this being the only real tc besides a direct coil. This is largely the selling point and benefit of the escc, direct power resulting in fast heat up and accurate tc. What you guys are doing with your v4s and other indirect heated crucibles is not tc. It is merely overheat protection. Using a thermocouple this can easily be shown. The dt4 is reaching temps way higher than you guys think. For you to get a 450f hit off a dt4 or puffco etc, they actually reach hotter temps so that when the air hits, it cools down to roughly the temperature based on your hit feel. The escc does not work this way. It reaches the temp that is set and then based on resistance changes like that caused by airflow, it moves wattage up and down to hold temp, not greatly exceeding it like the competition due to lack of power and to compensate for the cool down from air. No other crucible can come close to the accuracy or performance of the escc and no other crucible is giving you accurate tc. When you get the final escc you will understand. Nothing comes close to its performance or flavor, or tc accuracy.
As to your analogy, Cruise control on a car maintains the speed you set. What your doing with the v4 or other crucible atomizers to mimic tc is like taking a weak car that can't make it up a hill and speeding up to the hill and setting your cruise control 20mph higher than intended speed limit knowing you'll lose power on the hill and your cruise cotnrol will push its hardest but still slow down from lack of power making you hit the intended speed and not the higher speed you set your cruise control for. The escc in this analogy is an electric motor packed with torque and unaffected by the hill, so it can be set on cruise at the intended "speed" and it doesn't have to overshoot the temp to compensate for the loss of power when airflow hits it. Every single crucible atomizer reaches a much higher temp first to compensate for their lack of power when airflow hits them, like a weak car hitting a steep hill. The escc is like a supercar compared to the competition. It won't be affected by the hill. I hope this analogy helps you understand what olde is saying. The escc is the first and only truly accurate tc crucible. Another factor of direct heating, there is no delay of reading resistance. If air hits the crucible, a heater under the crucible will not detect a change in resistance right away, more reason why indirect heating is simply not capable of accurate tc.
 

Azn2101

Well-Known Member
So have all the beta & batches that came with OG ESCC's been taken care of now?
 
Azn2101,

Olde7

Electronic Vaporist
So have all the beta & batches that came with OG ESCC's been taken care of now?
I don't know for certain, myself. Last word I saw states all those still waiting (myself included. I ordered my personal unit in October) should get an email with ship date by sunday and if you don't, email Stuart to inquire. All dependent on DHL (or whoever)...
 

JCat

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
I don't know for certain, myself. Last word I saw states all those still waiting (myself included. I ordered my personal unit in October) should get an email with ship date by sunday and if you don't, email Stuart to inquire. All dependent on DHL (or whoever)...
I did get my e-mail yesterday :) (and I ordered September 24th) I e-mailed Brent back right away to add the bottomless banger and M22 bubbler as well, + to pay for the DHL shipping (instead of USPS). Excited!!!
 

al bundy

Vaporist
Just received email yesterday stating Essc shipping out on or before June 26 :clap:
They’re making sure address still the same
And if you received the other updated parts ( orings, zirconia housing, screwdriver) Which I have
I ordered on Aug 19
 

Azn2101

Well-Known Member
I don't know for certain, myself. Last word I saw states all those still waiting (myself included. I ordered my personal unit in October) should get an email with ship date by sunday and if you don't, email Stuart to inquire. All dependent on DHL (or whoever)...

Ya last night I was scrolling thru the Reddit and say that he said he'd have another confirmation batch going out which is cool.

As to my order i'm kinda flying blind over here since I didn't "order" one...I bought this 2nd hand here

He said he'd hit me up when he gets anything new delivered to his inbox/mailbox and ship it out to me so I'm waiting on anything from him especially since the switch over to the new platform.

Don't wanna bug the guy since he didnt respond to my last message asking if he got a confirmation email when i saw more than a few Beta customers getting e-mails on Reddit so that's why I was wondering if the first round/Beta ESCC's were out to see if he's just dealing with other more important things right now or what's up you know?

Either way I just want to get my hands on a non-OG version.
 
Azn2101,

tennisguru1

EXCELSIOR!
Got the email for my final ESCC for an October 15 order this morning.

Mine had to be resent because Cox is rejecting them...
From AVS Brent: repost on shipping


[–]VapeMore4Less[M] [score hidden] 5 hours ago stickied comment
Maybe I should make a post about this but we've found cox email to be blocking all emails from us. If you have a cox email account and that is what you used to place your order, you will not get our messages and will need to contact us directly. Brent@advancedvapesupply.com or Stuart@advancedvapesupply.com
 

Deleted Member 1643

Well-Known Member
A year after starting this thread, the final ESCC arrives, and it's... FABULOUS! :clap:

Coil killer. Heats up almost as fast as a coil, much faster than other portable quartz and ceramic cups. Flavor's outstanding. Wrapped a fresh coil yesterday and was disappointed by weak flavor of new shatter. With the m22 ESCC, flavor's there. Can't wait to try better concentrate. Even the effects seem cleaner.

Installing the spring clips was a little frustrating - be sure to watch the video. And the ESCC didn't click when seated. But the resistance was a a steady 0.77 Ohms. At 50W, TCR=138 and 450F, vapor production began in 2-3 seconds. Easy to clean with supplied cotton swabs - less need to remove the ESCC from the clips.

Very enthusiastic first impressions. This just might be the "game-changer" we hoped for.
 
Last edited:

sirwalter

Well-Known Member
Just received email yesterday stating Essc shipping out on or before June 26 :clap:
They’re making sure address still the same
And if you received the other updated parts ( orings, zirconia housing, screwdriver) Which I have
I ordered on Aug 19

------

Escc should be here Tuesday
Shipped Friday:clap:

Have no idea what order they could be going in...my early August preorder still hasn't even shipped. Not sure why I keep taking these AVS updates seriously, looking back the May one turned out to be nonsense. About to hit 11 months since preorder..
 
Last edited:
sirwalter,

Olde7

Electronic Vaporist
Have no idea what order they could be going in...my early August preorder still hasn't even shipped. Not sure why I keep taking these AVS updates seriously, looking back the May one turned out to be nonsense. About to hit 11 months since preorder..
If you're saying you haven't received your beta preorder m22 yet... Huh? You must mean the updated parts. Do you by chance have Cox internet? Emails from AVS sent to verify shipping info have been getting bounced by Cox and nothing will ship without a reply.. Just a thought. Either way, you should inquire with AVS about your position in the queue.... Early august should be shipping now, afaik.
 

sirwalter

Well-Known Member
If you're saying you haven't received your beta preorder m22 yet... Huh? You must mean the updated parts. Do you by chance have Cox internet? Emails from AVS sent to verify shipping info have been getting bounced by Cox and nothing will ship without a reply.. Just a thought. Either way, you should inquire with AVS about your position in the queue.... Early august should be shipping now, afaik.

I'm waiting for the same thing everyone else in this thread has been waiting for- the final ESCC. I find it odd that I am seeing preorder dates well past mine that have been received and mine still hasn't even shipped. I have received the shipping notification email. I immediately replied. Nothing has shipped. I don't have Cox email. I think the issue is more that these updates aren't realistic.
 
sirwalter,

al bundy

Vaporist
I received mine on Tuesday
It shipped Friday
You should e mail AVS with your order number
And if you did receive tracking mine didn’t update until the day it arrived
 
Top Bottom