Athlete Vaporists?

[Dustin McKief]

No, @stoic is asking for a citation to a published study backing up what this Huberman guy is saying. The only "citation" he seems to reference is his own video about vaping nicotine.

I'm pretty sure @Green420 understood that. He was responding to my question asking if he was experiencing any of the purported symptoms.

Obviously breathing in anything other than pure mountain air is risky.

I think that's a really good way of putting it. The effects of deep inhalation of vapor/smoke on the lungs is, to me, common sense (especially in the context of this thread). I always try to listen to my body and stop introducing anything that has an unwanted effect. One hit of rosin causes me back of the throat and upper lung discomfort, so I limit my intake.

 

[666Honeybadger]

Between that and his insane bit where he does "vocal phrenology" in an attempt to prove "stoner voice" is a real thing,

You made me look/listen!
I was cynical about this bold statement until he did "the voice"... (For a second i thought i heard myself talking!!!)
And his cannabis laughing.....
Spot on!
Amazing! What a guy!! He is onto something!

I'll start analysing every voice from now on!
So the K Billy Super Sounds of the 70's-DJ must have been a chronic user, right?

Might be my chronic stoned mind but two or three minutes was all it took this professor for me to say:
"Byebye" (in my mindless, dull, chronic user-voice)

What a total douche...

 

[GoldenBud]

How much veggies do you eat per day? I eat 6-8, trying more than that

 

[neoncheesecake]

As a trained neuroscientist, I get icky feelings from Dr Huberman. He's a YouTuber, which isn't exactly common in the science field. It's just not seen as a reputable way to educate people. He also sells supplements - LOL. credibility is in the garbage in my opinion. he's just a content creator with an advanced degree and trying to cash in on it. It's kind of disturbing to be honest.

Someone stated earlier that cannabis research is simply too far behind to be able to make bonafide medical claims. that is 100% the case. I am very hopeful that Biden's desire to reschedule cannabis will open the floodgates for cannabis research. at my university, our behavioral neuroscience labs had a very difficult time getting access to THC to research, because it is scheduled so aggressively. we simply don't have much published data on cannabis intake. no human clinical trials (except maybe for Dronabinol, the FDA approved synthetic cannabinoid).

I've seen a lot of cannabis users becoming increasingly concerned with the process of dry herb vaping/cannabis consumption and how it affects their body. please know that existing on our earth is harmful enough, as you all have stated. most of you on this thread are leading very healthy lives, and that is a HUGELY beneficial protective aspect. from a biochemistry aspect, your bodies are extremely well prepared to process and expel any foreign material. your bodies also rebound much faster and I think overall, healthy folks have very little to worry about when it comes to vaporized cannabis use (this is a generalization but I hope it makes sense).

It helps to be in tune with your body and understand when it's not feeling right - which many of you seem to have a really good grasp of.

 

[Siebter]

It's just not seen as a reputable way to educate people.

I know this is way offtopic and I think we all can agree that Andrew Huberman is not the best source of information, however, I strongly disagree with the idea that educating people via YouTube is not reputable or being viewed as not being reputable by colleagues. It might depend on the exact field and in fact I haven't come across any YT channel about neuroscience, but here in Germany science communication has become a *huge* thing. And I think in today's world it becomes more and more important for us to understand the deeper levels of science – take climate change for example: in order to alter the course our climate has taken in any way, we all have to work on it together, hence we all should understand what all the fuzz is about; actually, lectures about climate change were the first I remember to have watched as a kid. Now, that was on TV (YT wasn't launched yet), but YouTube has taken the role of TV in many ways, so I think it's wise to use it as a way to spread knowledge. It *shouldn't* harm anyone's reputation.

He also sells supplements - LOL.

That on the other hand is a bright red flag indeed.

 

[vapirtoo]

Super small cannabis study:
Five 70 yr. old men who smoked weed almost every day for 50 yrs;
have no breathing problems, no weight problems, enjoy exercise
3 days a week and are mentally sharp.
Are we an anomaly, the norm or just lucky?

 

[CANtalk]

I haven't been able to get outside on the MTB since my last post early this week. The weather has not been good enough and I definitely ran myself down physically on that burst of big miles on MTB trail rides. I have tight leg and core body muscles, etc. Still recovering. Hopefully we get one or two more days of warm enough weather next week here before the season ends.

For the cycling lovers, here are a few interesting videos.

The countdown has begun!

https://www.reddit.com/r/BeAmazed/comments/y3sftn
Getting out?

Cheers & have a great weekend

 

[GetLeft]

Checked my garmin settings, adjusted my max heartrate up which was probably around 10 bpm low. Everything else appears to be in order. Here's today's ride on another beautiful northeastern PA autumn day (mix of sun and clouds, 63 degrees).







Riding up hills gets your heart beating and keeps it beating!

Got passed by an ebike on the way up the access road again. They aren't always easy to pick out as they pass you but the slow cadence to speed ratio is the giveaway. Ran into the rider a few times. She was getting a good ride in and enjoying it as much as I was, by all apearances. My tolerance level is improving with regard to the presence of ebikes on the mtb trails.

A few nice hits of MTF on my Edge (which keeps on ticking, an impressive vaporizer imo) prior to the start def gets the mindset right

 

[CANtalk]

Sweet

 

[vapirtoo]

I went for a long ride on my road bike after doing numerous short rides (12 miles) on my mountain bike.
The easy speed and an edible from the Cookie King of Queens had me spinning real easy and fast for the first 20 miles.
My 14 mph average started to plummet on the ride back as I started to have various cramps popping up in my legs.
I really have to try an eat more eventhough the really healthy stuff takes so much preparation. ( baked sweet potatoes are easy)
Oh yeah, 37 miles in 3 hrs.

 

[CANtalk]

That's it, all she wrote... my MTB trail riding season has ended . Cool late fall weather has shown up and it's leading to winter soon. Between all the yard work and winter prepping, I did manage to get out for two more enjoyable ~17 mile trail rides on the last two half decently warm sunny days this week to wrap up the season. And I included the top two difficult trails in the area. Big cardio challenges and fun as always. I'm finally starting to recover my the end-of-season flurry.

Overall this year, I managed near 1000 miles total on the MTB. I got a lot of memories, further improved and refined my mountain bike skills and had lots of fun. Four crashes (lost the front end three times <lowside>) but nothing more than some bruising and minor abrasions. ~4400 miles in the last 4 years

At this point of the season, I will again turn to lurking more here, posting less, and living vicariously through everyone's inspiring stories here. Cheers!

 

[Marlon Rando]

Shawagunks mountains, aka da Gunks!
All Gravel baby..

 

[GetLeft]

@CANtalk hope you get a mini stretch or two of warm weather yet. But if you're done, you had a good season! Great work and thanks for the inspirational posts!

@vapirtoo and @Helios studliness imo I looked up the Gunks to find they are in the Catskills. I drive through the Catskills each winter on my way to the Adirondacks to ski. The Catskills are definitely a step up elevation-wise from my local trails a few hours to the south. The topography of NE PA into NY is fascinating. Poconos, Endless Mts., Catskills, Adirondakcs ... incredibly beautiful country.

This week I'll do my best to take advantage of what appears to be some upcoming favorable temps for riding (for the time of year) and get in a slightly longer ride on some more mellow trails to the south. Not quite ready to quit and as I am no longer punching a clock I may find a way to fight against the cold a little longer than I do typically. Some folks ride through the winter here. But I'm not a fan of icy/snowy rocks and roots. Tends to be less fun.

Had a great 7 mile hike with some great mates the other day. OG buddies who still fire it up while I pull out my Edge. The last time I did that same walk, my knees got a little achy due to not having been riding consistently at that time. But with a few good recent rides under the belt the knees felt fine.

Have a good week everyone

 

[Marlon Rando]

@CANtalk hope you get a mini stretch or two of warm weather yet. But if you're done, you had a good season! Great work and thanks for the inspirational posts!

@vapirtoo and @Helios studliness imo I looked up the Gunks to find they are in the Catskills. I drive through the Catskills each winter on my way to the Adirondacks to ski. The Catskills are definitely a step up elevation-wise from my local trails a few hours to the south. The topography of NE PA into NY is fascinating. Poconos, Endless Mts., Catskills, Adirondakcs ... incredibly beautiful country.

This week I'll do my best to take advantage of what appears to be some upcoming favorable temps for riding (for the time of year) and get in a slightly longer ride on some more mellow trails to the south. Not quite ready to quit and as I am no longer punching a clock I may find a way to fight against the cold a little longer than I do typically. Some folks ride through the winter here. But I'm not a fan of icy/snowy rocks and roots. Tends to be less fun.

Had a great 7 mile hike with some great mates the other day. OG buddies who still fire it up while I pull out my Edge. The last time I did that same walk, my knees got a little achy due to not having been riding consistently at that time. But with a few good recent rides under the belt the knees felt fine.

Have a good week everyone

Yea, Mohonk Mountain preserve is so much fun to ride up then rip down, there are literally endless amounts of trails here, all are dirt or Gravel, only paved areas are some parking areas, Since I bought a Gravel bike the roadie sits in the garage. Granted it's alot heavier and traversing uphill on Gravel and dirt significantly impacts mph. Will be mixing it up for a bike packing trip soon.
BTW I just picked up a pair of Solomon stance skis over the summer. Which mountains to do you ski in the Adirondacks? I'm planning to go to a few resorts, so many to try so little time. Gore is a no brainer, Whiteface too. Local spots for me are Bellyeare, Windham, Hunter, Bromley (Mass) Belleayre is good for quick trips good quiet area, all the city cats go to Hunter so no lift lines to wait for. Gonna be a good winter me thinks, snowy and cold!

 

[GetLeft]

Yea you got to be tough to be a gravel rider. Lots of pushing.

Heading down tomorrow to some nice mtb trails for a day of riding on familiar but infrequently ridden favorites. Gotta get to bed so I'm rested!

Regarding skiing, my mountain of choice is Whiteface. Gets a bad rep for its iciness at times (whence the nickname 'iceface'). But it's big, lots of variety, you can find a challenge on any day, ill weather or not. Best suited to skiers who aren't looking to be pampered.

I've never ventured to Belleayre, Wyndham or Hunter even though I pass a couple of them on the way to Whiteface. They have the reputation of being the go to mts. of folks getting out of nyc. Chaos and skiing makes me nervous. Whiteface is the right mix of distance (6.5 hrs. drive from where I am and far enough away from nyc to dissuade the casual skiers), 'affordable' lodging (there are options unlike in some of the pricier ski areas) and unbeatable terrain imo. Steep? You got it. Long? Got it. Bumpy. Covered. Icy? Maybe at times but it can be avoided if you know the mountain. And if you're skiing anywhere in the northeast, you're going to have ice. Folks who like to ski WF tend to be into skiing more than having a 'ski vacay.' Gore is legit in that regard also. Did Gore for the first time last year. Great place but not as much variety as Whiteface.

I've hit Vt. (Sugarbush, Mad River Glen) but as great as it is up there it's farther than I want to drive and lodging and food are also more expensive so for me time and expense take Vt. off my ski map. Who knows I may venture up there this winter just to mix it up a bit.

I'm currently skiing the most recent version of the Rossi Exp. 88 titaniums. Got them a couple of years ago. Favorite skis I've had so far. Light, responsive (handle bumps nicely) and can handle speed on the groomers. Perfect for my age and ability. I can handle some off piste (did the Slides a few yrs. ago albiet on a different version of the Exp 88), but I stay clear of parks and especially glades.

I'll spare everyone here my garmin data from last years' ski trip

Looking forward to hearing your ski reports!

 

[Marlon Rando]

Yea you got to be tough to be a gravel rider. Lots of pushing

Yea, but it's rewarding, even run this rig on pavement rail trails nearby.

And if you're skiing anywhere in the northeast, you're going to have ice.

'Icecoast'

I've hit Vt. (Sugarbush, Mad River Glen) but as great as it is up there it's farther than I want to drive and lodging and food are also more expensive so for me time and expense take Vt. off my ski map. Who knows I may venture up there this winter just to mix it up a bit.

Yea I hear that. I'm gonna try okemo and magic this season for a 3 day trip if possible.

Rossi a good ski I used to run those. Havnt tried these Salomon yet we shall see how they respond to groomers. No parks for me either, I miss skiing out west nothing like it. But we have our gems here in da 'Beast'.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

when he's talking about vaping, it's not vaporization, i think, it's like you have cartridge that is liquid and has 80% or more of THC
if you vaporize buds, each bud contain max 30% or 35% including terpenes, and ofcourse it's not ideal for the body, i mean the temperature of your body is way less than vaporizing temp, and our lungs are built to inhale air, not thc/cbd etc'

THC mimics Anadamide, and that's why it's addictive comparing to CBD and also can increase anxiety as he said. i think CBD is fine if you don't over use it. yes CBD bind CB1 and CB2 but not in the same way THC does.
temp of smoking is 1300F, while vaporization is 465F max, so it's much healthier anyway. he doesn't speak about the differences between THC and CBD, and about temperatures. find a better research/vid

No, @stoic is asking for a citation to a published study backing up what this Huberman guy is saying. The only "citation" he seems to reference is his own video about vaping nicotine.

Huberman conflates vaping nicotine with vaping cannabis. He also conflates vaping tobacco with e-juice vaping. The guy seems incredibly confused by this entire topic. Between that and his insane bit where he does "vocal phrenology" in an attempt to prove "stoner voice" is a real thing, I don't know why we should take him seriously on this or any other topic.

Obviously breathing in anything other than pure mountain air is risky. But he's claiming vaping herb or dabbing is causing permanent damage to the endothelial tissues and putting users at an increased risk of stroke. Big fuckin "citation needed" on that besides the magic supplement salesman saying "trust me, bro".

I'm going to do more research, and I'll share my findings in the medical section, as this isn't really the thread for it, but Huberman isn't simply conflating all types of vaporization. Here are two studies that support the idea of there being endothelial cell damage with dry herb vaporization:
Endothelial Cell Study 1

With the increasing popularity of “vaping” - using devices that aerosolize marijuana leaf vapor, a small study conducted in rats sought to examine the difference in endothelial function upon exposure to aerosol versus marijuana smoke. Researchers discovered that marijuana leaf aerosol substantially impaired endothelial function to a level comparable to marijuana smoke, controlling for differences in cannabinoid temperature or level of concentration [11]. Their results suggest vaporized marijuana smoke carries similar risks compared to conventional smoking - endothelial damage would therefore be an intrinsic property to marijuana, rather than a consequence of how it is ingested [11]. This contradicts popular perceptions that “vaping” is a cleaner, healthier, or less risky method of using marijuana.

Endothelial Cell Study 2

Methods: We exposed groups of rats (n=8) to aerosol generated by two vaporizer systems (Volcano and Yocan) using marijuana with varying THC levels. MS conditions ranged from 1 min constant exposure to pulsatile exposure 2 sec/min over 5 min. To model SH exposure, we exposed rats for 1 min to diluted aerosol approximating release of partial Volcano balloons into typical residential rooms. Air and marijuana smoke were controls. Endothelial function was measured as flow-mediated dilation (FMD) and pre- vs. post-exposure FMD differences were analyzed by 2-tailed paired t tests.

Conclusion: Acute mainstream exposure to marijuana leaf vaporizer aerosol regardless of cannabinoid level or temperature, and modelled secondhand exposure, substantially impairs endothelial function in rats comparably to marijuana smoke.

I like Cannabis as much as the next guy, but it's in our best interest to look at it from an objective standpoint, while making an effort to minimize our own confirmation/desirability biases, and to stay up-to-date on the most recent studies.
Unfortunately, there are a handful of studies that were published between 2019 - 2022 that do show some negative effects. Whether or not they are serious enough to warrant quitting, or if they are even going to prove themselves to be replicable, the studies are there for us to read, so we might as well give them a fair look, if we care about our health.

 

[florduh]

I'm going to do more research, and I'll share my findings in the medical section, as this isn't really the thread for it, but Huberman isn't simply conflating all types of vaporization. Here are two studies that support the idea of there being endothelial cell damage with dry herb vaporization:
Endothelial Cell Study 1

Endothelial Cell Study 2

I like Cannabis as much as the next guy, but it's in our best interest to look at it from an objective standpoint, while making an effort to minimize our own confirmation/desirability biases, and to stay up-to-date on the most recent studies.
Unfortunately, there are a handful of studies that were published between 2019 - 2022 that do show some negative effects. Whether or not they are serious enough to warrant quitting, or if they are even going to prove themselves to be replicable, the studies are there for us to read, so we might as well give them a fair look, if we care about our health.

Ok, but if I'm recalling correctly Huberman said cannabis vapor damages endothelial cells. And he definitely never couched this claim by saying "limited studies suggest". He just states this as a fact.

And the vapor study does not say endothelial cells are permanently damaged by vapor. It demonstrated that if you give rats a 5 second hit from a Volcano twice a minute, for 5 minutes, their endothelial function became impaired. They measured this by looking at how dilated the lung tissue was after the session.

The only thing this study demonstrates is that lung function is reduced after taking 10 hits in 5 minutes. Specifically, if you're a rat. I bet lung function is impaired in humans too immediately after a session. But that doesn't mean you've damaged your lung tissue permanently.

That's what Huberman said. That cannabis vapor is as damaging to the lungs as smoking. He's making a massive leap from what the study he's referencing actually demonstrated. Just like a clickbait journalist.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

thanks for these posts, guys. i have watched a few Huberman videos. his recent exercise protocol is a lot like what i do, except my 35 minute aerobics is 5 out of 7 days. i have evolved my own strength training routines as i have aged - now 74 yo.

i know that for me, vaping is far better than smoking a j or from a glass pipe.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

thanks for these posts, guys. i have watched a few Huberman videos. his recent exercise protocol is a lot like what i do, except my 35 minute aerobics is 5 out of 7 days. i have evolved my own strength training routines as i have aged - now 74 yo.

i know that for me, vaping is far better than smoking a j or from a glass pipe.

74 and still working out! Good for you, man!

 

[Hippie Dickie]

74 and still working out! Good for you, man!

yeah. thanks. i have been doing about 20 minutes of calisthenics at night - push up, sit up, squat. and recently added a spine twist that has completely eliminated lower back pain in the morning. plus, being exercised seems to tune down the fraught dreams.

all the muscles and joints need to move to help the lymph system work to support immune function - physical activity takes the place of not having a lymph system "heart". as i mentioned in another thread (at another time) i have been studying nutrition, seriously, since sept 2018, and biochem since feb 2019 - at least 2000 hours per year - which set me up for navigating this current dystopia with an understanding of how utterly, absolutely fucked the mRNA technology is - fundamentally. my engineering spidey sense was tingling when i read about codon sequence optimization and i had the technical background to understand the science. it is crystal clear that CDC and FDA do not know shit about health.

i don't take meds. i just say no to drugs. and to the entire pharma-medical complex. my motto since 1967: "know your chemist".

 

[Siebter]

@Hippie Dickie – Please don't spread anti-scientific bs here. There's other threads and platforms for that.

 

[CANtalk]

The earlier Red Bull Rampage MTB video links are up again (compiled) and available, cheers.

Red Bull MTB Rotura downhill is being streamed live shortly (~4 min), enjoy.

Downhill – Rotorua

Check out all the action from the Downhill at Rotorua, the final stop of the Crankworx World Tour 2022.

www.redbull.com

These links will likely follow a similar pattern to the Rampage video (they may go down after streaming as the video is compiled).

 

[CANtalk]

My outdoor MTB season is definitely over . I never was able to get out again, terrible weather here. Well, it was still a good year . And everyone can tell by my recent posts that I'm in withdrawal . I hope everyone is enjoying their exercise, how's it going?

And here's some more good MTB & cycling content, enjoy.

For the roadies

MTB spiciness
https://www.reddit.com/r/MTB/comments/ypxmqt Same source moar

First year on the MTB
https://www.reddit.com/r/MTB/comments/yohys8
Here's the world class Moab Utah Whole Enchilada trail (downhill) & very recent YT video.

Incredible MTB talent and skills, he recently did the MOAB Whole Enchilada backwards (so very uphill). Watch the beginning of this for the context of the video & the rider. Open separately and read the comments for more info.

Then the ride starts here.
https://youtu.be/liFHsc8h0hc?t=3024

TGIF & have a great weekend

 

[CANtalk]

Sorry, I swapped the the order of the two different Whole Enchilada trail ride videos in the last post and it messed up the related language a bit... they are two different riders. Plus, as mentioned the 8600 ft video has two links, one to watch the introduction and the second is a hyperlink which takes you to the start of the ride. The "Open separately and read the comments for more info" was meant for the MTB spiciness video . It seems I enjoyed the vape a little too much yesterday after a break .

With that out of the way, here's one more MTB video, so young & very talented. Enjoy.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MTB/comments/yos9p0