Ascent Vaporizer by DaVinci

[Tanz]

You realize those two statements don't go together unless you include "it's impossible to get well cured silicone on the next unit you get". That is what you say exists won't ever be used in an Ascent? Why?

There is a lot of work on "out gassing" of silicone rubbers (as well as epoxies and other similar system), much of it sponsored by NASA, it's basically a diminishing returns thing. It is constantly slowing down as individual molecules of the catalyst make their way to the surface and evaporate off (so we can smell them). Heat, vacuum and time effect this. But like watering your Scotch, there's still some detectable amounts (with instruments) past were you can smell them. That's what well (or properly) cured means. Not complete, but to an insignificant level. There are standards but no tests for this.

There is going to be some catalyst, whether that can be detected by the owner is not a given. There is a HUGE difference in smell sensitivity in us humans. Some people can smell stuff only bloodhounds do, other people don't smell very good at all...........

It's also worth noting that 'food grade' (which this no doubt is) catalysts are used over the cheaper, easier to use kinds, specifically because it's not toxic. Repeating that, the 'evil toxic fumes' are not really a hazard as we define them. Unpleasant perhaps, off putting to some no doubt, but claims that they are dangerous from a health standpoint should IMO be backed up or dropped.

OF

It would be nice if you were right (or I'm out $300 for nothing) but I have to ask, how do you back up what you are saying? Even if it is food grade silicone used, eating something and smoking it are two different things. Why are you so sure that this thing is not emitting any harmful fumes?

One guy say's it's toxic and one guy say's it's not...after seeing and smelling fumes that burned the inside of the nose, who should I believe is right...one whiff tells me it's not a good thing, honestly.

 

[OF]

It would be nice if you were right (or I'm out $300 for nothing) but I have to ask, how do you back up what you are saying? Even if it is food grade silicone used, eating something and smoking it are two different things. Why are you so sure that this thing is not emitting any harmful fumes?

One guy say's it's toxic and one guy say's it's not...after seeing and smelling fumes that burned the inside of the nose, who should I believe is right...one whiff tells me it's not a good thing, honestly.

OK, there are two separate health concerns here. First is the catalyst, the cheaper and easier to use ones are toxic (or at least have health issues). Shifting to 'safe' versions is what makes it food grade. What catalyst leaches to the surface is benign.

The second issue is one of temperature range. Depending on the exact polymer used, the cured material can decompose (chemically break down, as opposed to simple evaporation in the catalyst case) this can give off a host of stuff you don't want (and cause the failure of the material). Such materials exist, suitable to 500F or so, appropriate for our needs like this tube:
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23884&catid=799

So the maker needs a two pronged spec here. First 'food grade catalysts', secondly a cured material with a temperature rating high enough to prevent decomposition. He claims to have done that, I see no reason to doubt that. The maker is already sensitive to customer concerns here, having gone through both the 'smells like rubber nasty toxic fumes' issues with it's prior product, which was made more complex by the use of mica insulation in the heater which is also generally considered safe (it's in your toaster and hair dryer.....) but being a mineral had the added variable of stuff stuck between the sheets of the mica. This is not a part of the Ascent design.

Hey, if you're not comfortable, buy another vape. But IMO this one is plenty safe and the concerns raised generally not supported by conventional standards. I think some guys like to feel 'I'm too smart to get poisoned by that', we all like to feel superior...... There are safe materials of this sort available for this use, granted the maker could be lying about using them, but IMO that's really stupid in that it's extremely easy to disprove his safety claims in the laboratory. For not a lot of money his competitor could get some really damning evidence? Such 'sniffing around' is pretty common, I can think of several vape makers who have done elemental analysis (both EDX and gas chromatography, the first identifying the atoms used, the second their structures) on competitor's gear to ID the materials used. I think it's a safe bet they would not be too shy should they find a smoking gun?

OF

 

[Tanz]

OK, there are two separate health concerns here. First is the catalyst, the cheaper and easier to use ones are toxic (or at least have health issues). Shifting to 'safe' versions is what makes it food grade. What catalyst leaches to the surface is benign.

The second issue is one of temperature range. Depending on the exact polymer used, the cured material can decompose (chemically break down, as opposed to simple evaporation in the catalyst case) this can give off a host of stuff you don't want (and cause the failure of the material). Such materials exist, suitable to 500F or so, appropriate for our needs like this tube:
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23884&catid=799

So the maker needs a two pronged spec here. First 'food grade catalysts', secondly a cured material with a temperature rating high enough to prevent decomposition. He claims to have done that, I see no reason to doubt that. The maker is already sensitive to customer concerns here, having gone through both the 'smells like rubber nasty toxic fumes' issues with it's prior product, which was made more complex by the use of mica insulation in the heater which is also generally considered safe (it's in your toaster and hair dryer.....) but being a mineral had the added variable of stuff stuck between the sheets of the mica. This is not a part of the Ascent design.

Hey, if you're not comfortable, buy another vape. But IMO this one is plenty safe and the concerns raised generally not supported by conventional standards. I think some guys like to feel 'I'm too smart to get poisoned by that', we all like to feel superior...... There are safe materials of this sort available for this use, granted the maker could be lying about using them, but IMO that's really stupid in that it's extremely easy to disprove his safety claims in the laboratory. For not a lot of money his competitor could get some really damning evidence? Such 'sniffing around' is pretty common, I can think of several vape makers who have done elemental analysis (both EDX and gas chromatography, the first identifying the atoms used, the second their structures) on competitor's gear to ID the materials used. I think it's a safe bet they would not be too shy should they find a smoking gun?

OF

I was going to add, 'say something to make me more comfortable to use this thing now!' lol, because it seems like such a waste, and I must say, you did a good job. I am stuck with this one, but I actually did go out and get another vape, and it is flawless and doesn't have any strange scent's I have to question.

I understand that certain materials have boiling points and in this case it should be one that is safe/food grade and one that will have a boiling point above what the vaporizer is heating it to, but then I have to question why there is visible smoke/fumes coming out of this thing. If it were a fact that the material they used was not cheap and had a high temp rating then why is this happening?

And I have to agree it would be pretty stupid to use some cheap toxic stuff that a competitor can slam you with in a second, and that is comforting in a way but is anyone really watching...? There was a supplement company out there that went on for years until they got caught and that's an industry where there are plenty of competitors looking to nail each other, yet it took a long time when the product in question was always the same.

And you gotta wonder why they are so easy with returns. If you have a solid product then I'm sure you would need a legitimate concern to even consider a replacement but yet they replace these things with no questions asked. I don't think it's because they want to shine above the rest, because every replacement I got so far has been faulty in one way or another, and they all smoked.

Just found this: http://vaporblog.org/blog/news/update-on-the-davinci-ascent/

I find it interesting that one of the issues they supposedly dealt with was "Silicone has been updated", making me wonder what they used before...was it the cheap stuff...?

IDK really, and I guess that's the only thing I can say for sure.

 

[CarolKing]

I was going to add, 'say something to make me more comfortable to use this thing now!' lol, because it seems like such a waste, and I must say, you did a good job. I am stuck with this one, but I actually did go out and get another vape, and it is flawless and doesn't have any strange scent's I have to question.

I understand that certain materials have boiling points and in this case it should be one that is safe/food grade and one that will have a boiling point above what the vaporizer is heating it to, but then I have to question why there is visible smoke/fumes coming out of this thing. If it were a fact that the material they used was not cheap and had a high temp rating then why is this happening?

And I have to agree it would be pretty stupid to use some cheap toxic stuff that a competitor can slam you with in a second, and that is comforting in a way but is anyone really watching...? There was a supplement company out there that went on for years until they got caught and that's an industry where there are plenty of competitors looking to nail each other, yet it took a long time when the product in question was always the same.

And you gotta wonder why they are so easy with returns. If you have a solid product then I'm sure you would need a legitimate concern to even consider a replacement but yet they replace these things with no questions asked. I don't think it's because they want to shine above the rest, because every replacement I got so far has been faulty in one way or another, and they all smoked.

Just found this: http://vaporblog.org/blog/news/update-on-the-davinci-ascent/

I find it interesting that one of the issues they supposedly dealt with was "Silicone has been updated", making me wonder what they used before...was it the cheap stuff...?

IDK really, and I guess that's the only thing I can say for sure.

That article was dated Oct 19, 2013. Shortly after the Ascent came out.
You are probably in the category of folks that are highly sensitive to smells. You said you had problems with another vaporizer too.

 

[KeroZen]

Are your fumes visible under any lighting condition? How much do you got? Are they really that obvious?

You could eventually see a very faint fuming during the first burn-in (and I said *eventually*, it's not the norm at all!), but anything stronger or longer than that means you have probably a defective device.

What is the fumes origin? Check inside the vapor-path with a flash light and see if you can see any exposed wire. If it seems to come from the bowl, check that there is nothing stuck anywhere on the white ceramic bowl or its black support element. Check the bottom grill for any trace of glue too.

The silicone has a smell at first but shouldn't emmit anything visible. There are various ways to clean it though, but a lot of ventilation during the initial empty runs should be enough to lower the smell to acceptable levels.

 

[Tanz]

That article was dated Oct 19, 2013. Shortly after the Ascent came out.
You are probably in the category of folks that are highly sensitive to smells. You said you had problems with another vaporizer too.

Ya, I noticed it was an old article but my point is that it seems they went cheap to begin with, and that's concerning, to me at least.

Are your fumes visible under any lighting condition? How much do you got? Are they really that obvious?

You could eventually see a very faint fuming during the first burn-in (and I said *eventually*, it's not the norm at all!), but anything stronger or longer than that means you have probably a defective device.

What is the fumes origin? Check inside the vapor-path with a flash light and see if you can see any exposed wire. If it seems to come from the bowl, check that there is nothing stuck anywhere on the white ceramic bowl or its black support element. Check the bottom grill for any trace of glue too.

The silicone has a smell at first but shouldn't emmit anything visible. There are various ways to clean it though, but a lot of ventilation during the initial empty runs should be enough to lower the smell to acceptable levels.

What do you mean by eventually? And why is not the norm? Every unit I got smoked. I can't believe there are unit out there that didn't, even once at least. (although they all smoked continually without ever stopping)

Ok, so this is another replacement unit I am talking about here. Maybe the fifth now, maybe more, who knows, I lost count. (just being sarcastic here, but I am up there in units now)

First burn off, smoke...second burn off, a little smoke that seemed to stop. Can it be that I possibly got a unit that will work out this time, hmm. It still smells but not as bad as the last ones. If I don't see any more smoke coming off this thing then I think it will be good for use...?

 

[hoptimum]

Ya, I noticed it was an old article but my point is that it seems they went cheap to begin with, and that's concerning, to me at least.



What do you mean by eventually? And why is not the norm? Every unit I got smoked. I can't believe there are unit out there that didn't, even once at least. (although they all smoked continually without ever stopping)

Ok, so this is another replacement unit I am talking about here. Maybe the fifth now, maybe more, who knows, I lost count. (just being sarcastic here, but I am up there in units now)

First burn off, smoke...second burn off, a little smoke that seemed to stop. Can it be that I possibly got a unit that will work out this time, hmm. It still smells but not as bad as the last ones. If I don't see any more smoke coming off this thing then I think it will be good for use...?

What exactly do you mean by "smoke?" Smoke happens when things burn. Do you have any evidence of your Ascent catching fire?

 

[smokie]

Hey tanz, I know how you feel. I'm also on 4th or 5th model now can't remember. And the one I have now doesn't work properly! You can't go from 380-400 you have to go right up to about 410 for it to heat! I have spent as much on postage and customs fee's as the ascent or very close. And have now lost faith with davinci and their customer service.

 

[Amoreena]

... I can't believe there are unit out there that didn't, even once at least. ...

Mine never smoked or smelled bad. I got it last March from a local retailer.

 

[hoptimum]

Mine never smoked or smelled bad. I got it last March from a local retailer.

same here.

 

[KeroZen]

@smokie : I think you are just experiencing the temperature display bug. There is indeed a range which you can select (and I'm 100% confident that the device will reach them) but it will not be displayed (the LCD temp will be stuck to the previous setting)

@Tanz : mine smelled of silicone at first (and also all the nasty shit inside the packaging, ffs I don't understand why they don't include a silica dessicant pack inside the box, it costs practically nothing) but I tried under all possible lighting conditions and never saw any visible fume. At best I saw the "visual distortion" caused by hot air (the same effect that produces mirages on the road) but never any fume and even less "smoke"!

I did something like 10 empty runs in a super ventilated room to lower the silicone smell to something acceptable, but it's said we humans have very different nose sensitivities, that explains why some people don't notice anything and others do. I would say I'm rather sensitive and noticed "new vape" smells in all my vapes, excepted the Firewood.

@OF : glad to have you as an official member of the family! I didn't answer your last two posts from a while ago as I'm short of time, and well, it's not that important and now it's too late! It's nice that you enjoy the Ascent, the puck or flowers way, and I agree, the way it fits in your palm, the form factor and weight, make the experience very enjoyable. The design is very good.

Absolutely not related, but I completely destroyed by accident one of my lower glass stems: half of the bottom cracked and separated. Now it's not 4 holes anymore but a single giant hole at the bottom. I kept using this straw (and have been for several weeks now) and it works exactly the same, if not better, air-flow wise. Made me wonder if it would be possible to use the device "stem-less", but that would surely mess the air-tunnel and be harder to clean... and if you haven't fixed your top air-leak, that would be obviously a pretty bad idea... Nevermind!

 

[smokie]

@KeroZen. Thanks for reply. It seems to work just can't believe I'm on 4th or 5th model and still getting bugs. This bug is new to me.

 

[Amoreena]

@KeroZen - Enlarging one or two uptake holes with a Dremel tool (and appropriate bit) greatly improved air-flow for me. I finger-crumble herb for the Ascent rather than grinding so it's not fine enough to get sucked up.

 

[Tanz]

What exactly do you mean by "smoke?" Smoke happens when things burn. Do you have any evidence of your Ascent catching fire?

Really? I have seen an engine smoking before, and it wasn't on fire. I've seen a drop of oil smoke off a hot burner with no fire. I've done hot knives, lot's of smoke, but no fire So it's not always true that, where there is smoke there is fire. Surely on the verge of combustion but not quite there yet.

This thing was smoking or fuming or whatever you want to call it. There are many other people here and elsewhere that have had the same problem so the evidence is there. Davinci themselves told me that it happens and they have "a fix" for it, but they sure haven't used their fix for any of the unit's they sent me.

This product is a money hole, bottom line. From the first time you purchase it to the many times you have to ship it back to get another one. It's just ridiculous.

 

[hoptimum]

Really? I have seen an engine smoking before, and it wasn't on fire. I've seen a drop of oil smoke off a hot burner with no fire. I've done hot knives, lot's of smoke, but no fire So it's not always true that, where there is smoke there is fire. Surely on the verge of combustion but not quite there yet.

This thing was smoking or fuming or whatever you want to call it. There are many other people here and elsewhere that have had the same problem so the evidence is there. Davinci themselves told me that it happens and they have "a fix" for it, but they sure haven't used their fix for any of the unit's they sent me.

This product is a money hole, bottom line. From the first time you purchase it to the many times you have to ship it back to get another one. It's just ridiculous.

I don't doubt that you've had problems, but I haven't and neither have a lot of other people.

 

[CarolKing]

Tanz, Maybe you could trade your Ascent in for another Davinci vape like the original Davinci portable vape that looks like a little radio? I can't remember who you said you bought your Ascent from?

If it's DV maybe that would be an option for you? The original Davinci has been out a long time and many people like it a lot.

I do disagree about your opinion regarding the Ascent. But understand why you feel the way you do. I am sorry for all the trouble you've been having. This is my second one from last Oct and it's been working like a champ. The folks here on FC are a tiny percentage of the Ascent consumers in the marketplace.

 

[OF]

I don't doubt that you've had problems, but I haven't and neither have a lot of other people.

Exactly so. More over, since every return wipes out the profit from many others, I think it's a very safe thing to say that the average customer has not had any issue worthy of return. In fact, the majority?

Forums like this, with self selected 'experts', is a most unreliable way to estimate such quality issues I think. Some customers are far more demanding than others, something very hard to factor in.

OF

 

[Tanz]

I don't doubt that you've had problems, but I haven't and neither have a lot of other people.

It would be nice if I could say the same. But it would be better if everyone could. I could understand if there were little things here and there but the problems people are having, and the one I am having is especially bothersome. I shouldn't have to think twice before or while I'm hitting this thing and no one else should. We paid good money for this product and we should have a better quality product in out hands for that and not something we have to second guess.

Tanz, Maybe you could trade your Ascent in for another Davinci vape like the original Davinci portable vape that looks like a little radio? I can't remember who you said you bought your Ascent from?

If it's DV maybe that would be an option for you? The original Davinci has been out a long time and many people like it a lot.

I do disagree about your opinion regarding the Ascent. But understand why you feel the way you do. I am sorry for all the trouble you've been having. This is my second one from last Oct and it's been working like a champ. The folks here on FC are a tiny percentage of the Ascent consumers in the marketplace.

I guarantee that you would be in agreement if you had experienced what I had so far. This is not my opinion, this is my experience with this product. I'm not just saying this thing sucks because I don't like it. I am saying this thing has too many problems that it shouldn't have and the most concerning is the fuming issue. I wish it would be working out for me since I am the one who paid for it.

And at this point I spent too much on shipping, I could have bought two of them pretty soon if I keep paying for shipping. I am hoping on the next burn off the smoke doesn't return and then I may just use this thing or just keep it around for now...or maybe someone here wants to buy it? It's "new" from Davinci, with an unlimited warranty it seems until two years is up or you had it with shipping charges

Exactly so. More over, since every return wipes out the profit from many others, I think it's a very safe thing to say that the average customer has not had any issue worthy of return. In fact, the majority?

Forums like this, with self selected 'experts', is a most unreliable way to estimate such quality issues I think. Some customers are far more demanding than others, something very hard to factor in.

OF

Are you saying they lose money from the returned units?

If you pay for the product and then pay to ship it back to them and they clean it up a bit and re sell it then how do they lose?

 

[Amoreena]

... It's "new" from Davinci, with an unlimited warranty it seems until two years is up or you had it with shipping charges

According to Ascent's User Manual: "... Warranty applies to original end-user purchaser only. ... Warranty is non-transferable. ..."

 

[Norcalsun]

Has anybody talked to Davinci about paying the shipping on returned units? I haven't had any problems with my unit but if I had to return it more than one time I would definitely be talking to a Supervisor about free shipping.

 

[OF]

Are you saying they lose money from the returned units?

If you pay for the product and then pay to ship it back to them and they clean it up a bit and re sell it then how do they lose?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. This is not unique to vapes, of course, but when your warranty cost exceeds more than a few percent of 'cost of goods sold' you're in deep trouble. That's the way it works.

And "clean it up a bit and re sell it" is not how it works, that is strictly illegal. And a foolish thing to do even if it was legal (sell a potential 'problem child' again????). You cannot sell as new anything that contains even a single part that's been sold before. Nor can you use one field return to cover another failure. Repair the customer's unit or replace it with a new one, unless your warranty reads otherwise. That's the law......I've been there. It has to be clearly identified as 'reconditioned' or some such. Your assumptions are off I think.

OF

 

[Tanz]

According to Ascent's User Manual: "... Warranty applies to original end-user purchaser only. ... Warranty is non-transferable. ..."

Forget that idea then.

Has anybody talked to Davinci about paying the shipping on returned units? I haven't had any problems with my unit but if I had to return it more than one time I would definitely be talking to a Supervisor about free shipping.

They will not pay for shipping it back to them. And depending on where you live it can get really expensive, really fast.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. This is not unique to vapes, of course, but when your warranty cost exceeds more than a few percent of 'cost of goods sold' you're in deep trouble. That's the way it works.

And "clean it up a bit and re sell it" is not how it works, that is strictly illegal. And a foolish thing to do even if it was legal (sell a potential 'problem child' again????). You cannot sell as new anything that contains even a single part that's been sold before. Nor can you use one field return to cover another failure. Repair the customer's unit or replace it with a new one, unless your warranty reads otherwise. That's the law......I've been there. It has to be clearly identified as 'reconditioned' or some such. Your assumptions are off I think.

OF

I do know that something refurbished can't be sold as new. And the only reason I am assuming that this is happening is from the condition of the unit's I received from them, even the first one that was of course supposed to be new. The chamber was not fully closing and it had numerous scratches, as did all the other ones, until this one now, which at least looks new or newer than the previous ones. Also the fact that their customer service could not answer whether or not the unit's I was receiving were refurbished kinda made me think that way. I figured since I bought it as new I should receive a new one for the return, at least since I had not used it at all yet, and when I saw them coming in one after the other like that I had to ask, and the answer they gave made me think my assumption were not off at all.

 

[OF]

They will not pay for shipping it back to them. And depending on where you live it can get really expensive, really fast.

Understood, but those were the agreed to terms of the sale. I get it that it's unfortunate you might live far away, but am not sure it's fair for the other customers to cover the additional costs there. We all agree to cover our own costs, expecting 'them' to cover yours just means everyone will have a (hopefully slightly) higher price to pay, right? I think the majority of buyers would prefer the lower cost.

OF

 

[Tanz]

Understood, but those were the agreed to terms of the sale. I get it that it's unfortunate you might live far away, but am not sure it's fair for the other customers to cover the additional costs there. We all agree to cover our own costs, expecting 'them' to cover yours just means everyone will have a (hopefully slightly) higher price to pay, right? I think the majority of buyers would prefer the lower cost.

OF

What's not fair is taking people's money and giving them the run around with a low quality product. Like I said earlier, I wish I could say different, since I am the one who paid for it, but I can't.

 

[CarolKing]

At this point tanz, it between you and the company. I think we need to move on.