Arizer Solo

[lwien]

Your "inquisitive mind" can be a real pain sometimes, and unfair to company that could simply be trying to do right by it's customers.

While I TOTALLY agree that it can be a real pain sometimes, I've never been the one to put ANY company into the "sacred cow" category for to me, anytime something like this comes up, their strategies and intentions SHOULD be questioned so that it gives them an opportunity to answer those questions. Holding any company accountable, to me, is the most fair thing I can do.

However, doing so in a manufacturers thread where there are many proud and passionate owners of their particular product that hold not only the product, but the company themselves in VERY high regard, I realize that my comments may ruffle some feathers. Kind of comes with the territory but I firmly believe that it is warranted, regardless if the company or an end user believes that it is fair or not.

 

[darkrom]

lwien I agree. I'd rather people get offended at you asking the "wrong questions" than us simply take everything as fact. Again this is concerning to me. I know arizer is a good company, but are they a good enough company to say "you've been inhaling dangerous shit so stop?" I don't know. I still want to know what is UNDER the ceramic that is flaking off. Mine is fine personally, but if the ceramic flakes then the material under it would be exposed to that heat AND become part of the air path. I'd really like to know what is under the ceramic.

 

[VaporEyeSore]

Got to agree with lwien on this one. I was very close to buying one of these but it is now a no way! Not until I know exactly what this 'organic ceramic' is.

 

[Vaped Ape]

Friendly reminder offered.

Something I would add to those returning their Solos. I think it would be well advised if you folks did not return their Solo for warranty with the used stems with particulates and residue in them. Keep them back as spares.

Maybe everyone figured that out. If so great.

DA Ape

 

[Willeh]

Hello everybody, so Steve (The big man!) at Arizer has contacted me back about the coating. I didn't get told it was an 'organic ceramic', just ceramic he wanted to bind 'organically'. Even he used quotes on the word. This is not the full email, and I changed the formatting a bit (condensed paragraphs). He offered to replace my unit, I just needed to send him my serial number and shipping info, with a picture of the chipping. I'm very happy with how this turned out and my Solo will continue to be my daily driver. And I'll have one to use as an aroma device or something haha.

The chipping paint you mention is ceramic, it is chemically inert so there is zero risk to ingest it but still it's a disappointment. You're right it was done primarily for looks as the steel bowl underneath 'blues' over time with repetitive heating. Having it black just looks better. To get ceramic to adhere to steel is usually a potentially toxic undertaking because of the 'binding agents' used. They normally use a combination of silica's and glues. I wanted a black bowl and I wanted a ceramic coating applied "organically". My suggestion was to bake it on using no binding agents. I insisted on it.

It's possible to do this, our research found it's been done this way in parts of Europe since the early '90's.
It works great 'if' you bake the ceramic on for an exact length of time, to short or too long and you get either flaking or peeling. That's what's happening now. Some bowls could of been baked in an oven that wasn't preheated long enough, or left in for too long.

I wanted to give you a detailed explanation so you're not concerned. I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience

 

[vape4life]

Arizers instructions for warranty strictly state not to include any glass aroma tubes or anything except for the actual unit itself, which must be in a clean shape. Pretty common sense to me, ESPECIALLY cross border.

Friendly reminder offered.

Something I would add to those returning their Solos. I think it would be well advised if you folks did not return their Solo for warranty with the used stems with particulates and residue in them. Keep them back as spares.

Maybe everyone figured that out. If so great.

DA Ape

 

[vape4life]

Hey Willeh thanks much for passing that on! The future will definitely be interesting.

For all those who HAVE experienced this flaking/chipping of the ceramic:

Have you noticed any gross or unusual tastes in the vapour? Before I even knew about this issue I noticed some VERY disgusting vapor pulls and i'm curious if one has to do with the other? I also have the odour issue with mine so maybe that could be it...otherwise the taste soured extremely fast!

I await my replacement...question is do I try it again with the risk of another warranty repair, or sell it brand new and wait it out until they get it right?

Praise to Steve at arizer for informing everyone so quickly and providing excellent AAA customer service as always.

Hello everybody, so Steve (The big man!) at Arizer has contacted me back about the coating. I never got told it was an 'organic ceramic', he wanted to bind it 'organically'. Even he used quotes on the word. This is not the full email, he offered to replace my unit, I just needed to send him my serial number and shipping info, with a picture of the chipping. I'm very happy with how this turned out and my Solo will continue to be my daily driver.

The chipping paint you mention is ceramic, it is chemically inert so there is zero risk to ingest it but still it's a disappointment. You're right it was done primarily for looks as the steel bowl underneath 'blues' over time with repetitive heating. Having it black just looks better. To get ceramic to adhere to steel is usually a potentially toxic undertaking because of the 'binding agent
s' used. They normally use a combination of silica's and glues. I wanted a black bowl and I wanted a ceramic coating applied "organically". My suggestion was to bake it on using no binding agents. I insisted on it.

It's possible to do this, our research found it's been done this way in parts of Europe since the early '90's.
It works great 'if' you bake the ceramic on for an exact length of time, to short or too long and you get either flaking or peeling. That's what's happening now. Some bowls could of been baked in an oven that wasn't preheated long enough, or left in for too long.

I wanted to give you a detailed explanation so you're not concerned. I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience

 

[vape4life]

thanks Hippie... i have noise induced hearing loss and tinnitus from far too many rock concerts, car stereos, and dance clubs lol But I could still hear the damn squeel until i tapped it. Then again, I can usually hear the squeel on an old CRT television lol

the whiny high pitch noise coming from my EQ

i am guessing this is from the pulse width modulator (PWM) that controls the temperature. my vape does the same thing, but you need to have extremely good ears to hear it -- not surprising most people don't notice it (too much loud rock'n'roll in the earbuds, eh?) -- there are some birds i can't hear (uh oh, getting too personal).

i read the Arizer comment that the coating is organic, not the ceramic overwhich it is laid.

 

[lwien]

The chipping paint you mention is ceramic, it is chemically inert so there is zero risk to ingest it but still it's a disappointment. You're right it was done primarily for looks as the steel bowl underneath 'blues' over time with repetitive heating. Having it black just looks better. To get ceramic to adhere to steel is usually a potentially toxic undertaking because of the 'binding agent
s' used. They normally use a combination of silica's and glues. I wanted a black bowl and I wanted a ceramic coating applied "organically". My suggestion was to bake it on using no binding agents. I insisted on it.

It's possible to do this, our research found it's been done this way in parts of Europe since the early '90's.
It works great 'if' you bake the ceramic on for an exact length of time, to short or too long and you get either flaking or peeling. That's what's happening now. Some bowls could of been baked in an oven that wasn't preheated long enough, or left in for too long.

I wanted to give you a detailed explanation so you're not concerned. I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience

MUCH better explanation. Thanks Steve.

 

[Willeh]

I have never experienced any 'strong' or 'gross' flavor in any hits, or any strong smell coming off the unit. However I always notice a background flavor for sure and I know this is arizer's fabric insulation from my experience with the extreme. To test this out I just heated up to seven then took some heavy empty bowl hits on seven, on a cold stem. The taste is super obvious and super familiar. It's almost like the smell of cardboard but hot. It was not harsh and did not feel toxic. I mostly 'tasted' it in my sinuses and nose which leads me to believe it's just a smell and nothing more. I did this all on my 'chipping unit', I'm really not worried though it sure felt like a bad idea! My extreme used to make this very taste with an empty bowl, and it is in the hands of a friend that I use it quite frequently with anyway and have used it several times since getting my solo.

I trust arizer did their homework when they picked out that insulator and it's probably good for temperatures much above what we use, and the fabric itself just has a smell. Smells don't necessarily mean off-gassing do they? When a dog smells marijuana being smuggled in someones sealed gas tank, you surely can't say the weed was offgassing and thats why the dog smelled it. I think that shows that smells are something more complex than just a 'gas' or necessarily an indication of anything harmful. Especially when it doesn't smell like burning rubber or plastic.

My main other vape, the well known around here purple-days, had left me very puzzled over smells and stuff in the vapor stream. I can say for a fact my purple days and magic flight have woody tastes, but the wood is kiln dried which means that I shouldn't be inhaling any wood fumes. However when I took my purple days apart the whole inside along the heater cover was charred black...? It seems that the wood was breaking down further. I also noticed the smell/taste of the solder the first few days I had it. I'm not so sure their lead free solder is really that temperature safe. However I know this can all probably be blamed on my assembly or fudging up the solders. I'm getting a little off-topic.

I have had some gross tasting pulls off this thing. I got this strain that I was told was rockstar kush (off the black market). It tasted super sour, and the flavor was very strongly accentuated by the vaporizer. I describe the taste as sour salsa. It was very unpleasant and I did not ever want to vape it through the solo again; but combusted it was not so bad, so I ended up caving in and combusting it all as it was very frosty/potent regardless of flavor. But I'm assuming you just got one random gross pull, then the next pull of the same strain tasted fine?

 

[darkrom]

Wow that response from Steve is exactly what I was looking for. A response that was honest, to the point, answered our questions, and felt like it was from a human being rather than some copy paste response. That is very comforting now that I understand the process involved in attaching the ceramic and the fact that even without the ceramic at all, the solo is safe. I like that he went into enough detail to have me understand, rather than simply take his word. I like that he considered safety when figuring out how to attach the ceramic. Its very comforting to see first hand how good arizer is with customer service.

Now all I need is a permenant backup of my serial number emailed to myself and my confidence will be 100% restored. It is too bad that this happened, but how it handled impressed me. My unit never flaked, but the health concerns and product quality was in question by me immediately after seeing this issue. Now I don't worry about either one at all.

Arizer will resume being recommended with 100% confidence. This is much better. Vaping doesn't help very much with anxiety when you are anxious about the health risks of your vape. Quite glad Steve settled this for us!

 

[vape4life]

Hey Willeh, thanks that was a very informative post for me, especially in regards to the smell of the solo, extreme, mflb, and pd. This has also helped me raise my standards even more. Surely you are correct that a smell does NOT mean offgassing of anything, harmful or not. And that was quite a nifty idea to just vape with nothing in the bowl but i'm sad to hear that there IS a taste, on all said vapes including my previous love affair with the Extreme. I don't like this AT ALL...on any of the vapes. I never really noticed any odd insulation tastes with the extreme...i surely thought it was pure vapour that not even the medical/food grade whip could tamper with. But if these tastes are there i'm not interested. At this point I can only think of the herborizer and the cloud as being the "safest" and that's actually probably not the best word for it, but most pure airpath...no cold air over electronics, no insulation, etc. so looks like for the time being i'm putting a stoppage to vaping anything until I get my hands on something that is "pure".

It was mostly over an evening where I noticed the harsh gross taste with the exact same weed I used before that tasted fine. I used temps in the 3-5 range and never higher and i noticed the taste on the first few pulls too which is why i'm concerned. I understand that with high temp and after a few pulls it begins to taste awful but for some reason this occured much sooner and lower temp.

I have never experienced any 'strong' or 'gross' flavor in any hits, or any strong smell coming off the unit. However I always notice a background flavor for sure and I know this is arizer's fabric insulation from my experience with the extreme. To test this out I just heated up to seven then took some heavy empty bowl hits on seven, on a cold stem. The taste is super obvious and super familiar. It's almost like the smell of cardboard but hot. It was not harsh and did not feel toxic. I mostly 'tasted' it in my sinuses and nose which leads me to believe it's just a smell and nothing more. I did this all on my 'chipping unit', I'm really not worried though it sure felt like a bad idea! My extreme used to make this very taste with an empty bowl, and it is in the hands of a friend that I use it quite frequently with anyway and have used it several times since getting my solo.

I trust arizer did their homework when they picked out that insulator and it's probably good for temperatures much above what we use, and the fabric itself just has a smell. Smells don't necessarily mean off-gassing do they? When a dog smells marijuana being smuggled in someones sealed gas tank, you surely can't say the weed was offgassing and thats why the dog smelled it. I think that shows that smells are something more complex than just a 'gas' or necessarily an indication of anything harmful. Especially when it doesn't smell like burning rubber or plastic.

My main other vape, the well known around here purple-days, had left me very puzzled over smells and stuff in the vapor stream. I can say for a fact my purple days and magic flight have woody tastes, but the wood is kiln dried which means that I shouldn't be inhaling any wood fumes. However when I took my purple days apart the whole inside along the heater cover was charred black...? It seems that the wood was breaking down further. I also noticed the smell/taste of the solder the first few days I had it. I'm not so sure their lead free solder is really that temperature safe. However I know this can all probably be blamed on my assembly or fudging up the solders. I'm getting a little off-topic.

I have had some gross tasting pulls off this thing. I got this strain that I was told was rockstar kush (off the black market). It tasted super sour, and the flavor was very strongly accentuated by the vaporizer. I describe the taste as sour salsa. It was very unpleasant and I did not ever want to vape it through the solo again; but combusted it was not so bad, so I ended up caving in and combusting it all as it was very frosty/potent regardless of flavor. But I'm assuming you just got one random gross pull, then the next pull of the same strain tasted fine?

 

[Hippie Dickie]

However, google on "ceramic silicosis" yields 72,300 hits -- for example:

It is well known that male ceramic workers have elevated risks of chronic silicosis

etc.

 

[stickstones]

^^^
That's interesting

------------------------------------------

Arizer is one of those companies that really shines when things fuck up. They can and do make loyal customers out of their own mistakes.

 

[pakalolo]

Smells don't necessarily mean off-gassing do they? When a dog smells marijuana being smuggled in someones sealed gas tank, you surely can't say the weed was offgassing and thats why the dog smelled it. I think that shows that smells are something more complex than just a 'gas' or necessarily an indication of anything harmful. Especially when it doesn't smell like burning rubber or plastic.

Odours can only reach the olfactory system by means of molecules that have volatized. In other words, something has to "off-gas" to create a smell.

 

[Willeh]

That is very strange vape4health that the vaporizer would just start producing a smell. I have never experienced this but I could understand how that could be off-putting for sure. I understand theres plenty that can go wrong what with a short circuit, or battery failure, or anything. I however do not think the solo average solo poses any health risk.

Googling ceramic silicosis finds it's caused by working with ceramic and inhaling lots and lots of dust. You'll also find it's 100% preventable by modern technology, eg wearing a facemask. Non of this dust is present anywhere in vaporizers, and these flakes were surely chipping off in paint-chip sized chunks. The solo, nor the purple days, or any other vape with a ceramic heater wont cause the same effects as working in areas with lots of ceramic dust without a face masks.

I too long for an inert portable air path that has no tastes. I am eagerly awaiting the cloud as the glass all the way through is nice. The bud toaster would be the portable for me if its price point was not significantly higher than either the solo, or cloud, and I felt truly confident in its algorithm to keep heat when I would jerry-rig it to a waterfilter, because non-waterfiltered vapor simply doesn't work for me and it's not being tested under those parameters. Right now, out of all the vaporizers out there that are portable, the solo fills me needs best and I don't see mine presenting any kind of health risks, and I honestly don't taste anything offputting, on the contrary I find this vape very tasty compared to any other vape I have owned.

[Edited in] Science would say if you smell something a molecule is hitting your nose, the magic school bus teaches that. That's why I brought up that ridiculous example of marijuana gas particles flying through a sealed gas tank, and into a dogs nose. If the gas was sealed in there why wasn't the marijuana 'gas'? What's up with that? Smell molecules aren't necessarily bad molecules, they're extremely tiny and penetrative and all around us.

 

[GooglyEyes]

A very good and very reassuring answer from Arizer (thanks Wileh).

Some cookware manufacturers use ceramic coatings as a replacement for teflon (for supposed health reasons... or marketing). They also mention how precise they have to be in their manufacturing process to get the ceramic to stick to the steel. So, Arizer is not doing anything unique, using this coating. And it also shows that they are using a safe process too.

 

[aesthyrian]

Personally I would sacrifice the aesthetic value of a black bowl and just enjoy the uncoated bowl with its "blue" hint as Steve from Arizer was mentioning. This seems like an unnecessary step that's only purpose is to make the bowl look black inside. Completely superficial.

Not really worth all the warranty claims IMO.

 

[Vaped Ape]

Does anyone have an e-mail address to this fellow named Steve at Arizer? If so I would appreciate an e-mail with that information through the forum here. Thank you in advance.

Da Ape.

 

[Stu]

Does anyone have an e-mail address to this fellow named Steve at Arizer? If so I would appreciate an e-mail with that information through the forum here. Thank you in advance.

Da Ape.

I can venture a guess. Try steve@arizer.com

 

[large lungs]

Steve is available at the customer service email address in the manual, arizertech@gmail.com.
Arizer shipped my free replacement today.

 

[charliedontsurf]

My warranty replacement also shipped today.

I'm in the process of letting my old Solo bake off the coating, leaving it cranked at 7 in another room for many cycles. We'll see what it looks like afterwards.

 

[large lungs]

I was able to remove the left over coating in mine with several grades of steel wool.The metal now has a nice gun blue after some heating cycles.

 

[vape4life]

That's some great customer service you guys are getting sending pics and receiving replacement units? I had to send mine in and I deliver it in person to save shipping time and yours gets shipped before mine! For $&@"& sakes!!

Also I'm very surprised that arizer would spend the extra money, r&d, etc just to have the inside of the heater black? Like a previous poster this makes no sense. I'd rather have NO coating and just have the steel whether it turns blue or not.

 

[large lungs]

Being polite and professional goes along way when dealing with customer service.