Anvil by Vestratto

[vandalizedbythelotus]

Does induction even work on copper, that I don’t know? If it doesn’t the induction heater is heating surrounding steel and transferring to the copper. Copper is the heat storage on this device to my understanding, but I could be wrong.

induction works on anything electrically conductive, with varying degrees of efficiency. even stuff like carbon fiber or composites like SiC. so yeah it works great on copper too.
but the issue here is the increased mass of the anvil overpowers IH's generally used for dynavap. best case scenario it takes a very long time to heat up.

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

induction works on anything electrically conductive, with varying degrees of efficiency. even stuff like carbon fiber or composites like SiC. so yeah it works great on copper too.
but the issue here is the increased mass of the anvil overpowers IH's generally used for dynavap. best case scenario it takes a very long time to heat up.

I suggest you look it up, the induction coil is made of copper which would get hot if it was affected by induction,i imagine a current that strong wont be safe for the circuit board.
Just google it, copper and aluminum cookware does not work on induction stoves.
"". Induction tops typically will not heat copper or aluminum vessels because the magnetic field cannot produce a concentrated current, but cast iron, enameled, carbon steel and stainless steel pans will usually work. Any vessel can be used if placed on a suitable metal disk which functions as a conventional hotplate.""
If the Wand is not powerful enough for the Anvil, how about using an induction cooking stove ? Those are pretty high watts .

 

[Petetbay]

According to sneaky Pete it does

I looked it up and copper don’t work good if at all as it has be a metal that has magnetic properties as there are types of steel that also don’t work when they have too much nickel.
Electrically conductive is not the prerequisite it’s magnetic, if that was true aluminum would work and it doesn’t, copper pans require magneticly conductive steel on their base to heat and transfer the heat to the copper. Duh

 

[VapingCrow]

is the pre order discout over for the website? it worked when i added to cart yesterday but I just went to order and its full price and 20 dollars for shipping

I think the pre-sale is over however with all the issues and concerns people had over the weekend it would be nice if he extended the sale price.

 

[Magiano]

I looked it up and copper don’t work good if at all as it has be a metal that has magnetic properties as there are types of steel that also don’t work when they have too much nickel.
Electrically conductive is not the prerequisite it’s magnetic, it that was true aluminum would work and it doesn’t, copper pans require magneticly conductive steel on their base to heat and transfer the heat to the copper. Duh

Ok. Then we need to know what kind of steel the Anvil uses.

 

[Petetbay]

Then we need to know what kind of steel the Anvil uses.

“Made from 316 Medical Stainless Steel and Pure Oxygen Free Copper.” From PH blog on the Anvil.

 

[SquirrelMaster]

is the pre order discout over for the website? it worked when i added to cart yesterday but I just went to order and its full price and 20 dollars for shipping

Shoot them an email and they'll credit you the difference. You can email them before you place your order to be sure.

 

[Magiano]

“Made from 316 Medical Stainless Steel and Pure Oxygen Free Copper.” From PH blog on the Anvil.

Thanks. Forgot about that.
What I have found about 316 SS is, it has

• 16 percent chromium
• 10 percent nickel
• 2 percent molybdenum

in it, but couldn't really find, if it's ih friendly or not.
Most common used SS seems to be 304 ss in the kitchen.

 

[Whiff]

Pardon if I missed it earlier, but how large are the full and half chambers when compared to the OmniVap full and half chambers?
Is Anvil just a little larger, or is Anvil exponentially larger?

I admit, even after all the shit I am still on the fence... if it is a true Dyna-killer... but I am skeptical.

The full bowl holds 0.1g and 0.15 if packed tightly ( i packed it tight a few times and got it to 0.14)
The half bowl holds 0.5 and 0.7 when packed tightly

 

[Vestratto]

you are of course right @Vape Soda , my apologies.

let me pose this question then??? what's the draw resistance like on the anvil?? is it tight like a Dynavap or more fee flowing???

Hi - its John here from VESTRATTO.

The Anvil airflow adjustment is directly through the herb chamber. After filling you can test and adjust the draw to your liking. This must be done before heating as you have to hold the oven to adjust the airflow. Direct airflow adjustment through the bowl allows you sprinkle or pack a bowl and still have the extraction in a 10-12 second long draw. Higher draw resistance in the Anvil will result in a reduction of pressure in the herb chamber yielding smaller aerosol particles making the vapour more bio-available. You can see this in the videos as a dense whiteout of the water unit with amounts as small as 0.05 gram in the half bowl. Anvil does not have a dilution port like other vapes in this genre. If you find the aerosol too intense you will need to remember to open up airflow for the next bowl. A bit of experimentation and you can easily dial in your preference.

Thanks. Forgot about that.
What I have found about 316 SS is, it has

• 16 percent chromium
• 10 percent nickel
• 2 percent molybdenum

in it, but couldn't really find, if it's ih friendly or not.
Most common used SS seems to be 304 ss in the kitchen.

Hi - its John here from Vestratto

316 is the most corrosion resistant. In the Anvil the live vapour path is 316. It is overkill but using the best material for the job means not being disappointed later. The stainless on the oven and body is 304. The 316 vapour path is fully sealed the entire length of the unit.

From a manufacturing perspective the 316 is more expensive but chips much better in the CNC machines and as such can be processed slightly more reliably.

 

[SquirrelMaster]

The Anvil should fix one of the major gripes I have with Dynavap's, the tiny bowl. That would be irrelevant if it didn't produce a good amount of vapor and Sneaky Pete has a nice video showing the output. This was probably already posted but I'm not going back through that mine field.
1hr:06min into his live stream

Vestratto Anvil First Look

Today I'm talking about a really exciting new butane-powered portable dry herb vaporizer, the Anvil made by Vestratto. It has really knocked my socks off.

www.sneakypetestore.com

I have a large, spare, glass slide that I mistakenly ordered for my first DIY induction heater so I plan to use it when I fab something up.

 

[Magiano]

Hi - its John here from Vestratto

316 is the most corrosion resistant. In the Anvil the live vapour path is 316. It is overkill but using the best material for the job means not being disappointed later. The stainless on the oven and body is 304. The 316 vapour path is fully sealed the entire length of the unit.

From a manufacturing perspective the 316 is more expensive but chips much better in the CNC machines and as such can be processed slightly more reliably.

So that would mean it can be used with an induction heater, because of the 304 ss on the oven then? It just needs one made with the right amount of power output.
(Still would love to hear about someone trying the wand specifically in flower mode, cause I really think everyone just tried it in concentrate mode till now, but I might have missed something)

 

[ChooChooCharlie]

I placed preorder yesterday and got the $50 discount

Like supporting new vape designs, even if they are more of a tweak on existing ones

Intrigued by the copper clad thermal concept, no more spinning

Not so thrilled with the discussion of air flow in @venturig post above:

"Higher draw resistance in the Anvil will result in a reduction of pressure in the herb chamber yielding smaller aerosol particles making the vapour more bio-available."

Say what, now!?
Reminds me of Mark's VRIPtech venturi flow infatuation, or Sublimator's sublimation theory into smaller particles, or a carb cap user's claim that smaller opening drops pressure in banger...ugg, this pressure drop bro-science has been spoken of so much over the years, people accept it as true. My pet theory -- brain conflates friction caused air resistance of smaller openings with the vacuum like resistance sucking air out of a sealed container -- throw in a dash of French names and equations, and voilà. But, what do I know, I'm just another googling Cheeto-eating clown with an opinion

 

[Zuhdj]

I placed preorder yesterday and got the $50 discount

Like supporting new vape designs, even if they are more of a tweak on existing ones

Intrigued by the copper clad thermal concept, no more spinning

Not so thrilled with the discussion of air flow in @venturig post above:

"Higher draw resistance in the Anvil will result in a reduction of pressure in the herb chamber yielding smaller aerosol particles making the vapour more bio-available."

Say what, now!?
Reminds me of Mark's VRIPtech venturi flow infatuation, or Sublimator's sublimation theory into smaller particles, or a carb cap user's claim that smaller opening drops pressure in banger...ugg, this pressure drop bro-science has been spoken of so much over the years, people accept it as true. My pet theory -- brain conflates friction caused air resistance of smaller openings with the vacuum like resistance sucking air out of a sealed container -- throw in a dash of French names and equations, and voilà. But, what do I know, I'm just another googling Cheeto-eating clown with an opinion

That's only with the airflow control all the way closed I'd think. I hear it's pretty open when it's opened up. It's there any way @PaperClouds could confirm this and maybe could we get a video of a RTL hit with airflow open and ripping really hard?

 

[vandalizedbythelotus]

I suggest you look it up, the induction coil is made of copper which would get hot if it was affected by induction,i imagine a current that strong wont be safe for the circuit board.
Just google it, copper and aluminum cookware does not work on induction stoves.
"". Induction tops typically will not heat copper or aluminum vessels because the magnetic field cannot produce a concentrated current, but cast iron, enameled, carbon steel and stainless steel pans will usually work. Any vessel can be used if placed on a suitable metal disk which functions as a conventional hotplate.""
If the Wand is not powerful enough for the Anvil, how about using an induction cooking stove ? Those are pretty high watts .

i suggest you look it up, the induction coil generates the field by running absurd voltages, it's not affected by it. obviously it gets hot but not like what's inside the field.
you are thinking of a different coil configuration with the cookware stuff.
work piece inside the coil only needs to be electrically conductive, not magnetic, graphite crucibles are used in IH to melt stuff.

 

[Vestratto]

You may be right, but has anyone at least tried it in flower mode with 4 flames on?

So that would mean it can be used with an induction heater, because of the 304 ss on the oven then? It just needs one made with the right amount of power output.
(Still would love to hear about someone trying the wand specifically in flower mode, cause I really think everyone just tried it in concentrate mode till now, but I might have missed something)

Hi - Its John here from Vestratto

This post will try and answer a few questions about Anvil and IH.

Present IH units have been designed for other vendors vaporizers and only generate about half the power required to heat the Anvil rapidly enough to be useful. I have spoken to IH vendors that think the current generation of units which have about 70 watts will need to be doubled to 150 watts. I will bring more information as discussions proceed but do NOT expect anything soon. No vendor wants to undertake a development effort until Anvil has an installed base large enough to justify the development cost.

The current Anvil CopperCore oven has a 304 inner liner, the copper layer, and the outer stainless 304 layer. The outer layer is only slightly magnetic because of the cold working of the CNC machine process. It is designed for torch not IH. If an IH heater has 150 +/- watts it will likely work with the current Anvil but needs testing.

In a Vestratto conducted bench test with a current popular IH heater the Anvil got hot enough to boil water inside the herb chamber in one minute. The Anvil never got hot enough to generate vapour from dry herb no matter how many heat cycles were applied.

My patent application discloses a future version of the CopperCore oven where the outer stainless layer is 400 series martensitic steel, likely 410. The 400 series is significantly magnetic and as such much more susceptible to heating with IH. A magnetic 400 series bottom layer can be found on any high quality fry pan that is marked Induction Compatible so the technology is well proven in another industry. When we make a prototype we will be able to report how well it works with any of the current IH units.

 

[Cannabiker]

This guy does some great IH experiments, and, yes, he heats aluminum. This whole video is entertaining, but skip to 8:30 if you want to see aluminum magic tricks with an IH:

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

This guy does some great IH experiments, and, yes, he heats aluminum. This whole video is entertaining, but skip to 8:30 if you want to see aluminum magic tricks with an IH:

Doesnt seem very practical to use that big of a power supply,so you can heat copper/aluminum,also doesnt seem safe to be playing with such current. There are metals more effectively heated by induction. Good luck fitting a coil that strong in small enclosure with circuitboards and wires,not to mention cooling for the coil itself. Good thing the Anvil has SS plates.They will probably melt if you introduce enough current to heat the copper itself by induction.

 

[Vestratto]

I placed preorder yesterday and got the $50 discount

Like supporting new vape designs, even if they are more of a tweak on existing ones

Intrigued by the copper clad thermal concept, no more spinning

Not so thrilled with the discussion of air flow in @venturig post above:

"Higher draw resistance in the Anvil will result in a reduction of pressure in the herb chamber yielding smaller aerosol particles making the vapour more bio-available."

Say what, now!?
Reminds me of Mark's VRIPtech venturi flow infatuation, or Sublimator's sublimation theory into smaller particles, or a carb cap user's claim that smaller opening drops pressure in banger...ugg, this pressure drop bro-science has been spoken of so much over the years, people accept it as true. My pet theory -- brain conflates friction caused air resistance of smaller openings with the vacuum like resistance sucking air out of a sealed container -- throw in a dash of French names and equations, and voilà. But, what do I know, I'm just another googling Cheeto-eating clown with an opinion

Hi - John here from Vestratto

You don't know me very well yet. You can learn more about me if you want by googling "john mumford xltek" to see my background. With that I hope you will see that I am serious about what I'm doing here. I am trying to help advance new ideas in the cannabis vaporizer world. You may not agree with me and I'm totally willing to be proven wrong but I am not a snake oil salesman.

The original science this post, and the Anvil airflow design, is based on is not mine but was developed by the cigarette industry in its investigations of nicotine bioavailability and cigarette design. In designing Anvil many investigations of parallel technologies took place.

As you lower the pressure liquids boil at a lower temperature because it takes less energy for the molecules to escape. Its why in movies about mountain climbing the tea never gets hot despite boiling vigorously in the kettle. The average human generates a Maximum Inspiratory Pressure of about 80 cm/H2O. That's how hard your diaphragm can pull when you inhale. This is negligible industrially but if you've ever had to explain a hicky you know its very real. Think of an aerosol cloud as balls. Some particles are big, basketballs while some are small, marbles. As you inhale the basketballs in the cloud would get stuck in your mouth or your throat. The golf balls could go much deeper. Marbles deeper still.

Closing down the air valve on an Anvil and pulling hard with your diaphragm will decrease the pressure in the herb chamber by 80 cm/H2O resulting in a small statistical shift in the size of the aerosol particle mix towards smaller particles. These smaller particles penetrate perhaps only one bronchiole branch deeper in the lungs but that is huge in bioavailability because it doubles with each branch. With Anvil we can't generate an ideal aerosol - because we are powered by human lungs - but we can optimize the engineering and apply basic physics to improve the results. We are trying to, even if only by a small amount, shift some "basketballs into golf balls into marbles".

 

[Xclerk]

It was almost magical to read all that science, then to instantly see that username chage to Vestratto- Manufacturer right before my eyes. Welcome to the club. This community has alot to offer and is definitely a huge stepping stone toward achieving that ultimate device. Some big shoes to fill

 

[Planck]

Hi - John here from Vestratto

You don't know me very well yet.

Hello John,
Welcome to the FC forums. I for one, look forward to getting to know you, I hope you will have the time and inclination to continue interacting with us FCers. The depth of experience and knowledge of vaporizers and vaporization the FC collective has is I believe unparalleled by any other online resource. Here's hoping for a long and mutually beneficial relationship.

Cheers.

 

[Petetbay]

i suggest you look it up, the induction coil generates the field by running absurd voltages, it's not affected by it. obviously it gets hot but not like what's inside the field.
you are thinking of a different coil configuration with the cookware stuff.
work piece inside the coil only needs to be electrically conductive, not magnetic, graphite crucibles are used in IH to melt stuff.

What’s your point, you want to melt an anvil and I‘m not talking vaporizer. I gotta dig out my welding gloves now and try do a few hits on my DV with a torch, just need to top up the oxy-acetylene tanks 1st. That is as practical as that crap you googled. We’re talking about realistic IH’s maybe even battery powered to heat a vaporizer, not melt it. Or is it an attempt to be funny? Doesn’t sound like it. Now there, you have your 1 free argument, now go away or I will taunt you a 2nd time.

 

[vandalizedbythelotus]

What’s your point, you want to melt an anvil and I‘m not talking vaporizer. I gotta dig out my welding gloves now and try do a few hits on my DV with a torch, just need to top up the oxy-acetylene tanks 1st. That is as practical as that crap you googled. We’re talking about realistic IH’s maybe even battery powered to heat a vaporizer, not melt it. Or is it an attempt to be funny? Doesn’t sound like it. Now there, you have your 1 free argument, now go away or I will taunt you a 2nd time.

my point is, as i said in my original post, IH works on the Anvil. IH can heat copper and ALU just fine, not only ferritic metals, and anyway 304 SS is the same material as the dynavap caps (tips are either 316L or TI).
but the ones currently on the market made for dynavap (max 10A) are severely underpowered only because the Anvil tip is 2x-3x as massive.
not because of the materials used in the Anvil.

pretty sure the 20A ZVS board should work for this. doubt we will see a battery powered version any time soon.

edit:
@Abysmal Vapor i mentioned in my origial post it works with varying degrees of efficiency on those other electrically conductive materials. in this case the cooper would pick up heat faster from the 304SS just like the dynavap tip does from the cap. you don't need to heat it at the same level since they are very much in contact.
i was disagreeing with you saying it doesn't work at all for copper and that nonsense bit about the coil. hopefully this doesn't need more explaining.

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

my point is, as i said in my original post, IH works on the Anvil. IH can heat copper and ALU just fine, not only ferritic metals, and anyway 304 SS is the same material as the dynavap caps (tips are either 316L or TI).
but the ones currently on the market made for dynavap (max 10A) are severely underpowered only because the Anvil tip is 2x-3x as massive.
not because of the materials used in the Anvil.

pretty sure the 20A ZVS board should work for this. doubt we will see a battery powered version any time soon.

Copper is barely heated by induction compared to SS that is the point. IH works on the anvil because it has SS,not because it has copper. By the time you use enough current to heat the copper the SS would be melted ,so it aint practical. You can do a test by inserting copper a dynavap IH, it wont get heated,you will probably need 5x-10x the current to heat it to the same level as the SS. Anyway lets agree to disagree and move on with this.
""Induction Heating systems require water cooling in order to remove the heat generated by electrical losses in the heating system. In particular, losses due to the very high amperages present in the induction coil.""

 

[Petetbay]

not because of the materials used in the Anvil.

Wrong.