Anvil by Vestratto

[Flow]

If you read my first post you’ll see I’ve bought extra bowls. In fact, a bought a whole new anvil.

I’ve really done everything I can to explore and tick off every possible hardware variable.

I have actually damaged a clicker from an ISO soak before, so I know exactly what you mean.

Current theories are - It’s either my heating tech, herb humidity, bowl pack, or some other as yet untested variable

@Anvil_help_420
Ever tried a different botanical in your Anvil ?
 It might be your issue ?

 

[Anvil_help_420]

@Anvil_help_420
Ever tried a different botanical in your Anvil ?
 It might be your issue ?

A different strain? Here in the illegal UK market we have two main strain choices

Take it, or leave it, are the choices

No but jokes aside I have tried different ones yes. We get different stuff that works its way over here, just not a choice generally.

I think it’s okay now I’m conditioning my herb, I guess the market in my local area is having a lot more dry bud than usual and I’m needing to do this as a result.

Things are looking up, and I’ve got my favourite vape hitting good again

 

[bhasma]

With regards to my issue, we might have progress on this front! I will update later. I think another poster was right about humidity. That seems to be the variable that’s changed the tide. I’m also now experimenting with a much looser pack (we’re talking half the bowl filled) than I ever remember needing to do, and that’s helping the flavour on the back end of the hit where it started going from roasty to “oh shit not again”

AVB looks the same, but the taste and throat feel are back to where it was in my first anvil stint.

I also think that there is more OVERALL conduction on the XL bowl as well as that lovely hash patch where the screen would be on the others. Of course that’s subjective though. Other can and have disagreed on this.

Don’t forget we also heat the XL bowl less, which is why it’s not necessarily darker on the bottom as you theorise - we’ve already accounted for it in our heat up.

I'm glad if you've found the solution. The Anvil should evaporate any moisture during heating and if the buds are very dry there is more chance of combustion. The heat of the clicker housing doesn't go much beyond the air inlet holes and the wall temperatures of all the bowls are basically the same. The base of the XL bowl heats over 200°C but the sides (beyond the thermal break) don't exceed 170°C. I heat all my bowls in the same way, always assuming that the snap discs are clicking at the appropriate temperature, and I usually fill each bowl to it's rated capacity with a light tamp to keep the load clear of the condenser.

 

[Anvil_help_420]

I'm glad if you've found the solution. The Anvil should evaporate any moisture during heating and if the buds are very dry there is more chance of combustion. The heat of the clicker housing doesn't go much beyond the air inlet holes and the wall temperatures of all the bowls are basically the same. The base of the XL bowl heats over 200°C but the sides (beyond the thermal break) don't exceed 170°C. I heat all my bowls in the same way, always assuming that the snap discs are clicking at the appropriate temperature, and I usually fill each bowl to it's rated capacity with a light tamp to keep the load clear of the condenser.

You measured this using metal colour changes on the outer metal of the bowls, correct? I think I remember reading this from you before, was an interesting way of doing it that I hadn’t considered. I enjoyed reading it.

I think this is a good way, but not totally objective and doesn’t tell the story of how the temperature changes throughout the heat up and hit - only the peak temp each part will hit. The metal does eventually oxidise in similar ways on both bowls, I have noticed this. But not totally identical, at least for me and my heating style (in line with Whiff’s recs)

Do you notice a darker band around the top of the bowl? My XL bowl has this, and my regular does too, but not as intensely.

I get a slightly different flavour profile, too. The XL gets roasty faster, and the regular more “convectiony” at the start. Both trains end at the same station though, that earthy taste when you know everything has been extracted.

I think another good way would be to pull the bowls at various points through the hit and temp gun them. Obviously pulling once per bowl to avoid overly cooling and contaminating data.

I’m convinced the XL bowl is hotter throughout and conducting more at click, I’d love to test it properly

 

[dman28]

Glad to hear you have finally slayed the beast.
Have had similar issues in the past with the regular bowl that has been remedied with a thorough cleaning of the bowl. That requires removing the filter from the bowl.
I have in previous posts mentioned that the clicker has become progressively less robust over the course of time. Have found if you shake the bowl vigorously after cleaning, followed by a dry run reheat to click to evaporate the remaining moisture in the clicker.

 

[bhasma]

You measured this using metal colour changes on the outer metal of the bowls, correct? I think I remember reading this from you before, was an interesting way of doing it that I hadn’t considered. I enjoyed reading it.

I think this is a good way, but not totally objective and doesn’t tell the story of how the temperature changes throughout the heat up and hit - only the peak temp each part will hit. The metal does eventually oxidise in similar ways on both bowls, I have noticed this. But not totally identical, at least for me and my heating style (in line with Whiff’s recs)

Do you notice a darker band around the top of the bowl? My XL bowl has this, and my regular does too, but not as intensely.

I think another good way would be to pull the bowls at various points through the hit and temp gun them. Obviously pulling once per bowl to avoid overly cooling and contaminating data.

I’m convinced the XL bowl is hotter throughout and conducting more at click, I’d love to test it properly

Sorry if my previous response seemed defensive, I was trying hard to understand your problem based on available evidence and my own experience (which has rarely included any charring). And I wonder how your very dry buds perform in the Dani or other devices? I have not seen a darker band in the AVB from any bowl unless it was too tightly packed or I failed to complete it. The idea of using the heat temper as an indication of the metal's maximum temperature came from John. And if the maximum temperature reached during a cycle is 170°C then the instant heavy vapour and rapid full extraction must be mostly from convection. The XL bowl has more conduction, but still the majority of the surface in all of my bowls never becomes tarnished (even after a year of use). If your bowls become fully tarnished then you must be heating more aggressively than I ever do.

I've been closely examining my AVB today (standard full bowl) and perhaps there is a very slightly darker colour on the screen. But it's so slight I have never really noticed it.

 

[RedZep]

I’ve also become uncomfortably toasty from a smaller than usual dose. No idea why but I think riding the line does extract some additional cannabinoids. I’ve put hardcore combustion stoners on their butts RTL with the anvil

Maybe something about the speed of extraction also. It's a lot of calories, completely extracting a very small amount rapidly and to the brink of combustion.

Every variable that makes up what we call "efficiency" is present there. The result is sheer potency.

I never got the same potency with the 0.1g bowl RTL. Potent but nothing compares to the 0.05g bowl RTL. Should come with a warning

 

[RxPlorer]

Maybe something about the speed of extraction also. It's a lot of calories, completely extracting a very small amount rapidly and to the brink of combustion.

Every variable that makes up what we call "efficiency" is present there. The result is sheer potency.

I never got the same potency with the 0.1g bowl RTL. Potent but nothing compares to the 0.05g bowl RTL. Should come with a warning

Huh? You're saying half the dosage size was more potent? Consistently?

 

[bhasma]

Huh? You're saying half the dosage size was more potent? Consistently?

Perhaps four 0.05g bowls in a row seems more potent than a single 0.2g bowl

 

[Vapetothegrave]

Perhaps four 0.05g bowls in a row seems more potent than a single 0.2g bowl

I believe this is the case. The Anvil vaping more than 0.1g provides diminishing returns IMO, this is why I have returned to the 0.05 doses after smashing XL bowls for a while.

 

[bhasma]

Since the Anvil's bowl is well isolated and most extraction is by convection, if accidental overheating occurs don't inhale and there shouldn't be any combustion, and if you do inhale then stop the moment you taste it to minimise any tainting. The XL bowl could have some charring from conduction, but combusting the smaller bowls by conduction alone would require a serious overheating that could also damage the clicker. I have only experienced combustion by missing the first click, presuming the second click is the first one, then continuing to heat until I assume that the second click is imminent and inhale anyway. But the "second" click never comes and I taste combustion, before cursing and cleaning the device.

 

[condition]

I have all 3 sizes bowls. Since I got the WPA, I only use the half bowl with a wide-open bubbler (no percolator etc).
This provides maximum efficacy with very thick vapor for the quantity used (.05), RTL of course.
If I stop drawing, I must remove the Anvil and then clear the bubbler, if any vapor is left.
If I redraw (from the half bowl) without removing the Anvil from the bubbler, this will lead to an unavoidable (100%) combustion, maybe due to small load combined with RTL and powerful draw.
The best strategy is to draw slowly till the vapor in the bubbler is thinning and then remove WPA from bubbler.

 

[Anvil_help_420]

And I wonder how your very dry buds perform in the Dani or other devices?

They perform much better in other devices. Although I have a theory for this:

The Dani and AC’d DV are much “looser” in terms of required variables when doing RTL, but as a result you do extract a bit less due to not getting quite as close to the line. They both don’t hit me quite as hard as the anvil.

The anvil on the other hand, is precisely engineered to extract as much as possible within set parameters. This also means it can be more finicky with certain variables and be pushed over the line easier.

By the way, what other devices have you owned?

I notice you call the anvil a convection vape, but the resulting high has a noticeably hybrid feel compared to the pure convection devices I’ve tried (Tinymight and thermal accumulator)

I’ve always called it a very convection forward hybrid, based purely on trying so many devices of varying ratios. Pure convection does not have the body effects of the anvil. I dislike the pure convection high, it doesn’t feel “complete” to me.

Try a butane ball vape and see for yourself

I have not seen a darker band in the AVB from any bowl unless it was too tightly packed or I failed to complete it.

Apologies, I didn’t explain well. My bad. I meant on the bowl itself.

Where it joins to the condenser, on the bowl there is a noticeably dark band of discolouration. I’ll try to photograph and upload so you can see. I’ve found it strange as this is the point where the convective airstream should be theoretically weakest.

Although since I’ve got my duracore and the newer full bowl with the rounded cutouts, I’ve not had it appear as of yet. Strange.

Just wondered if this was something you’ve noticed?

And if the maximum temperature reached during a cycle is 170°C then the instant heavy vapour and rapid full extraction must be mostly from convection. The XL bowl has more conduction, but still the majority of the surface in all of my bowls never becomes tarnished (even after a year of use). If your bowls become fully tarnished then you must be heating more aggressively than I ever do.

I think it starts off very convective yes. The isolation works a treat. Great design by John. There’s definitely a large amount of radiant heat conducting into the load once everything gets going though.

I remember the resident vape design genius @invertedisdead saying there’s a significant amount of low temp conduction going on in the anvil. I wasn’t sure I agreed at the time, but as usual he’s ended up being right once I tried more convection devices.

For me, that somewhat explains the hybrid signature to the high.

I think the convective airstream must kickstart the process somewhat, because the herb barely cooks if you don’t start pulling.

And no, my bowl surfaces don’t become fully tarnished. They seem to follow a similar pattern to what you have described.

I do heatup quite aggressively though, it’s true. I’m always going for 25-30 seconds on the thermal battery as my personal gold standard for RTL

 

[bhasma]

If the Anvil has a charred taste in brown AVB without charring, then I don't understand how the Dani can produce brown AVB from the same buds without any unexplained charred taste. I think any vape that is riding the fine line between full extraction and combustion runs the same risk of crossing the line due to very slight variations. But the Anvil can do it consistently and with more ease than other vapes I have tried. I currently have a Ghost MV1, DaVinci IQ2, thirty Dynavaps (including Simrell and Mad Heaters variations), a Woodscents Aromalog, the Mighty+, two Tinymights, and three Anvils.

The Anvil heats the load gently during heating mainly by radiation to the walls of the bowl. But when the walls don't exceed 170°C at the height of extraction it is clear that the majority of extraction is achieved by convection. And if you heat the Anvil and don't draw on it, the load remains unroasted, so the roasting must be due to convection (not radiation or conduction).

The convective airstream doesn't kickstart the process, it is the main process, which is given a kickstart by the initial radiation to the sidewall and slight conduction at the base of the bowl.

I can get equal effects from the Tinymight and the Anvil if their heating is adjusted to get the same AVB, and I find approaching the line is easier to achieve without scorching with the Anvil.

There shouldn't be any tempering of the bowl at the condenser end, but condensed backflow can bake onto the outside of the condenser and perhaps the rim of the bowl, which is "tarnish" but not temper.

And the exact shape of the air intake slots should make no difference to heat temper at the other end of the bowl.

 

[Anvil_help_420]

If the Anvil has a charred taste in brown AVB without charring, then I don't understand how the Dani can produce brown AVB from the same buds without any unexplained charred taste. I think any vape that is riding the fine line between full extraction and combustion runs the same risk of crossing the line due to very slight variations.

You’ve missed the point of what I am saying here. While both ride the line, the closer you get the more finely tuned the variables must be to avoid combusting/charring. The Dani clearly doesn’t get as close as the anvil, which means there’s also more wiggle room in the variables.

The Anvil heats the load gently during heating mainly by radiation to the walls of the bowl. But when the walls don't exceed 170°C at the height of extraction it is clear that the majority of extraction is achieved by convection. And if you heat the Anvil and don't draw on it, the load remains unroasted, so the roasting must be due to convection (not radiation or conduction).

The convective airstream doesn't kickstart the process, it is the main process, which is given a kickstart by the initial radiation to the sidewall and slight conduction at the base of the bowl.

With respect, you’re arguing a point I didn’t make (whether convection is the main process or not).

What I am saying, is that the anvil is a convection forward hybrid. Which is to say, while convection is the main process (at least at first) there is a significant amount of heat radiating, leading to a fair element of conduction in the anvil signature. It is a totally different high to pure convection. Much more in line with every hybrid I’ve tried, there’s a reason it’s often been compared to the supreme. One of the best hybrid desktops ever.

Of course a hot convection airstream will heat the metal it comes into contact with, that’s what I mean by needing to draw to start the process of low temp conduction inside the bowl. The isolation works fairly very well until you draw, and then the hot air pulling through the system bypasses this. I don’t believe the anvil bake as evenly if it was pure convection, either. The bowl shape (long and narrow) is actually a fairly inefficient shape for convection. Pure convection vapes typically have a shallow but wide bowl.

I can get equal effects from the Tinymight and the Anvil if their heating is adjusted to get the same AVB, and I find approaching the line is easier to achieve without scorching with the Anvil.

While I agree the anvil performs better at high temp, I totally disagree the effects are equal. The tinymight hits as hard, but the effects are much different for me. Very heady high, much less body load. It’s similar to the thermal accumulator, I found that to also have an extremely convection dominant signature compared to anvil.

There shouldn't be any tempering of the bowl at the condenser end, but condensed backflow can bake onto the outside of the condenser and perhaps the rim of the bowl, which is "tarnish" but not temper.

No it’s definitely tempering. Like I say I’ll try and grab a photo of it. It’s a noticeable dark band

 

[bhasma]

So, very dry material in the Anvil tastes charred no matter what you do, and it tastes fine in the Dani, and the reason is that the Anvil can ride closer to the line than the Dani. A fair comparison would have produced the same brown coloured AVB from both the Anvil and the Dani. Heating less intensely is possible and it is usually the best way to reduce charring, and if you don't come so close to combustion in the Anvil then the dry herb shouldn't taste so charred, but apparently that's not what you found.

Nobody claims that the Anvil works solely by convection, but you have said that convection starts the process and significant conduction follows. And I have tried to explain that the reverse actually happens.

The applied heat spreads through the oven wall in a few seconds, and after that there is no further increase in oven temperature. This slight lag is what can sometimes overwhelm the system when the thermal battery is heated too strongly. And if most of the bowl never exceeds 170°C during the whole cycle there is clearly no significant vapour produced by conduction. And while the hot airstream heats the load as it passes through, it still doesn't heat the bowl itself beyond 170°C.

And apparently your bowls have heat tempering at both ends but not in the middle. The thermal break created by the air inlets slows conduction to the rest of the bowl, and that's why most of the bowl remains untempered. But if there is more heat (enough to cause a colour change) in the rim of the bowl it should discolour the whole bowl because there is no thermal break to stop it. If the tempering is due to conduction from the condenser (the only thing it is touching) then the condenser should also be discoloured. And if that is the case then the Anvil's thermal circuit is working backwards and there is problem with heating technique.

 

[jardri]

So, very dry material in the Anvil tastes charred no matter what you do, and it tastes fine in the Dani, and the reason is that the Anvil can ride closer to the line than the Dani. A fair comparison would have produced the same brown coloured AVB from both the Anvil and the Dani. Heating less intensely is possible and it is usually the best way to reduce charring, and if you don't come so close to combustion in the Anvil then the dry herb shouldn't taste so charred, but apparently that's not what you found.

Nobody claims that the Anvil works solely by convection, but you have said that convection starts the process and significant conduction follows. And I have tried to explain that the reverse actually happens.

The applied heat spreads through the oven wall in a few seconds, and after that there is no further increase in oven temperature. This slight lag is what can sometimes overwhelm the system when the thermal battery is heated too strongly. And if most of the bowl never exceeds 170°C during the whole cycle there is clearly no significant vapour produced by conduction. And while the hot airstream heats the load as it passes through, it still doesn't heat the bowl itself beyond 170°C.

And apparently your bowls have heat tempering at both ends but not in the middle. The thermal break created by the air inlets slows conduction to the rest of the bowl, and that's why most of the bowl remains untempered. But if there is more heat (enough to cause a colour change) in the rim of the bowl it should discolour the whole bowl because there is no thermal break to stop it. If the tempering is due to conduction from the condenser (the only thing it is touching) then the condenser should also be discoloured. And if that is the case then the Anvil's thermal circuit is working backwards and there is problem with heating technique.

i use very dry material and i just need to decrease flame size in order to get the desired taste

 

[condition]

I try to use only dry material. Easier vapor production and better for my respiratory system.

 

[bhasma]

Yes, I have also had no problem with dry herbs. My supply often comes a bit too moist, and sometimes too dry, but neither have caused any problem in the Anvil. I store my herb in a CVault container with Boveda humidity control and either way it soon evens out.

 

[Pepeluis33]

I couldn't find the Blazer Firefox torch here on Spain (anyone knows where can these be picked here on EU?) so I've picked this beauty on Amazon: Proxxon 28146. Works like a charm, seems a great alternative.

 

[Orvaxxx]

I couldn't find the Blazer Firefox torch here on Spain (anyone knows where can these be picked here on EU?) so I've picked this beauty on Amazon: Proxxon 28146. Works like a charm, seems a great alternative.

I bought my Firefox from Vapenorth, Sneaky Pete’s store.

 

[Cannabiker]

I couldn't find the Blazer Firefox torch here on Spain (anyone knows where can these be picked here on EU?) so I've picked this beauty on Amazon: Proxxon 28146. Works like a charm, seems a great alternative.

That's nearly identical to the Blazer Stingray (GB4001)--only the base looks different. I'll bet it's an alternatively branded version of the same torch.

 

[nicknobody]

That's nearly identical to the Blazer Stingray (GB4001)--only the base looks different. I'll bet it's an alternatively branded version of the same torch.

Blazer is made in Japan. It’s likely a Chinese clone or attempt at a clone. Should work great otherwise

 

[Cannabiker]

Blazer is made in Japan. It’s likely a Chinese clone or attempt at a clone. Should work great otherwise

I've got the Stingray package in hand--it's made in Taiwan. I know some Blazers are Japanese--my Big Shot says "Made in Japan"--but apparently they've got factories elsewhere. And clones can be hard to identify from photos alone, but that picture shows an identical torch to the Stingray.

 

[nicknobody]

Sounds like a re brand and not a product made by blazer? Idk

China torches work great