Anvil by Vestratto

[TeaCup]

How can I make sure I'm on the waiting list and not just the mailing list?

I'm still not even sure what the hell I'm on either. The one that sends a verification to your email I still can't get that one to go all the way through. Right now I have my fingers crossed and that's about it. I too really wish I knew.

Just curious…can the blazer’s be used safely with a vapman? I thought they might be too strong.

I have a Blazer Big Buddy and I couldn't even imagine using that with my Vapman, the flame is literally like a 100 times fatter than a little single flame.

 

[Texus]

I'm still not even sure what the hell I'm on either. The one that sends a verification to your email I still can't get that one to go all the way through. Right now I have my fingers crossed and that's about it. I too really wish I knew.


I have a Blazer Big Buddy and I couldn't even imagine using that with my Vapman, the flame is literally like a 100 times fatter than a little single flame.

Check out the Anvil shipping thread. Today John gave e-mail address to write to in order to inquire about waitlist status, make sure you are on the right list, etc.

 

[My_50p_worth]

What's your methods to achieve a joint like experience as that's what I'm looking for. Being able to pass it around between combustion friends would be a big plus.

Besides a fine grind do you use a tight/med pack, heat on a certain part of the oven, for so many seconds, an X sized flame? Mine should be in my hands hopefully by mid month. Thanks for sharing your experience.



The Black Widow! I'm definitely in.

I use @Whiff heating time suggestions, I’ve got a medium size kitchen torch I’ve calibrated to click in 30 seconds or so when aimed at the copper block. I only go to the first click, as this more aggressive heating style “bumps” the second click into action like a second after the first and waiting for it can combust/vapbust.

Fine grind (the DV SS screens seem to really help here) I pack it a little tighter than John would maybe suggest, but the smaller plant particles allow for this.

50% airflow all the time. Feels exactly like the draw of my old joints I would roll. This will be preference though so don’t be afraid to experiment and find a draw similar to what you’re used to. Just be aware that less airflow = more heat concentrated into the airstream = higher bowl temp. We’re already playing with fine margins doing such an aggressive heatup and this can be enough to push the temp just over the edge

 

[seki]

What's your methods to achieve a joint like experience as that's what I'm looking for. Being able to pass it around between combustion friends would be a big plus.

I've been considering this point, and I don't think it's really feasible for this kind of scenario despite looking like the performance of the device would totally support it.

I guess for me when I think about a joint, it gets lit, pulled on and passed around, but because it can take several minutes to consume by fire completely, it can go from person to person relatively leisurely.

Unlike a lot of vapes, Anvil produces thick, combustion-like clouds even with native use, so on the surface it seems like a good analogue in that sense, but because the vapour production window is only 30-60 seconds depending on your heating technique, I feel like it's not quite enough time to pass around to several people as output falls off a cliff due to the quick and complete extraction that you typically get. I had a buddy who would always talk when he was holding the joint to the annoyance of all of us. You have one of those guys in your group with an Anvil session and it's pretty much game over.

I suppose it would be possible if everyone was familiar with the way it worked and people just took one quick pull and passed it to the next person immediately, but that would feel more like a relay race than a relaxing session I think.

Having said that, I think in order to get the longest possible vapour production window, you need to do a longer, slower heatup right on the battery. My assumption is that you have to fully saturate the heat reservoir so that it's storing as much energy as possible, but you don't want to fill it up too quickly as too much heat too fast can cause a combustion event.

 

[bossman]

Salutations and welcome back @HerbieVonVapster! Do yourself a favor and get on the Anvil waitlist.

I've been considering this point, and I don't think it's really feasible for this kind of scenario despite looking like the performance of the device would totally support it.

I guess for me when I think about a joint, it gets lit pulled on and passed around, but because it can take several minutes to consume by fire completely, it can go from person to person relatively leisurely.

Unlike a lot of vapes, Anvil produces thick, combustion-like clouds even with native use, so on the surface it seems like a good analogue in that sense, but because the vapour production window is only 30-60 seconds depending on your heating technique, I feel like it's not quite enough time to pass around to several people as output falls off a cliff due to the quick and complete extraction that you typically get. I had a buddy who would always talk when he was holding the joint to the annoyance of all of us. You have one of those guys in your group with an Anvil session and it's pretty much game over.

I suppose it would be possible if everyone was familiar with the way it worked and people just took one quick pull and passed it to the next person immediately, but that would feel more like a relay race than a relaxing session I think.

Having said that, I think in order to get the longest possible vapour production window, you need to do a longer, slower heatup right on the battery. My assumption is that you have to fully saturate the heat reservoir so that it's storing as much energy as possible, but you don't want to fill it up too quickly as too much heat too fast can cause a combustion event.

Yeah, passing an Anvil around sounds dumb to me for the reasons you describe. It's not that it can't stay hot long enough but more that the one heat cycle is so fast and complete: it wasn't designed as a session vape and the session vapes you can pass around all get curb stomped by an Anvil. Put anything from a partial half bowl to a packed full bowl on a bubbler and all the vapor just leaps out in under ten seconds.

I have no patience for the "make this more like smoking" angles on any vape though really. Smoking was never good, it was just all we had. I defy anybody to spend time using an Anvil like it was intended and then combust by accident and say, "oh, that's better!"

 

[My_50p_worth]

Having said that, I think in order to get the longest possible vapour production window, you need to do a longer, slower heatup right on the battery. My assumption is that you have to fully saturate the heat reservoir so that it's storing as much energy as possible, but you don't want to fill it up too quickly as too much heat too fast can cause a combustion event.

I think one of the first stages of anvil ownership is realising the mindset of heating a DV works quite a bit differently when applied to anvil.

You try and do a slow roast and you’ll have some beige AVB, it’s totally opposite to what you think will happen and I’m still not sure why

Maybe John can explain why anvil prefers an aggressive heat up for RTL

 

[stonedmallone]

I've been considering this point, and I don't think it's really feasible for this kind of scenario despite looking like the performance of the device would totally support it.

I guess for me when I think about a joint, it gets lit pulled on and passed around, but because it can take several minutes to consume by fire completely, it can go from person to person relatively leisurely.

Unlike a lot of vapes, Anvil produces thick, combustion-like clouds even with native use, so on the surface it seems like a good analogue in that sense, but because the vapour production window is only 30-60 seconds depending on your heating technique, I feel like it's not quite enough time to pass around to several people as output falls off a cliff due to the quick and complete extraction that you typically get. I had a buddy who would always talk when he was holding the joint to the annoyance of all of us. You have one of those guys in your group with an Anvil session and it's pretty much game over.

I suppose it would be possible if everyone was familiar with the way it worked and people just took one quick pull and passed it to the next person immediately, but that would feel more like a relay race than a relaxing session I think.

Having said that, I think in order to get the longest possible vapour production window, you need to do a longer, slower heatup right on the battery. My assumption is that you have to fully saturate the heat reservoir so that it's storing as much energy as possible, but you don't want to fill it up too quickly as too much heat too fast can cause a combustion event.

Bigger oven and bowl could help. But ultimately I am looking for that same thing, a blunt like vape experience. This is the closest we've ever gotten and I love it.

 

[enrarit]

I received my PT4000 today, will try it out tonight to see if I can't dial in repeatable results.

Welp... Completely screwed something up last night, first run with the PT4000 and combusted.

Ugh.

Took it completely apart and iso soaked it... Then grabbed my TM and finished off the night while sulking...!

 

[seki]

Bigger oven and bowl could help. But ultimately I am looking for that same thing, a blunt like vape experience. This is the closest we've ever gotten and I love it.

I agree, I think for the individual person, it absolutely mimics the experience or is the closest that I've experienced anyway. I think it's close to being suitable for sharing too, but I think the physical limits are the issue here like you suggest.

I think one of the first stages of anvil ownership is realising the mindset of heating a DV works quite a bit differently when applied to anvil.

You try and do a slow roast and you’ll have some beige AVB, it’s totally opposite to what you think will happen and I’m still not sure why

Maybe John can explain why anvil prefers an aggressive heat up for RTL

I think there's a balance with speed and the size of your flame. Back in December when I received my Founders Edition, one of the first things I discovered that too much heat, too quickly was definitely not a good thing.

I've been using this a little more than I really ought to be, but so far I'm already sensing that the torch you use is going to play a not insignificant role in the success you have with this device. I've had two sessions with a Blazer PB207 Micro Torch. The sessions themselves were great. Good flavour, more clouds than my baby lungs could handle and pretty thorough extraction.

After posting my video to Reddit, it got a few complaints about the slow heat up time, which admittedly with the Micro-torch took a little longer than I would have hoped for. Now I fully acknowledge that I'm a novice and need to use the device more to get a better feel and develop better technique, but heat up times for the two sessions was about 60 and 70 seconds.

With that in mind, I used a kitchen torch that I normally use with my Supreme 3.5, only with the flame turned almost all the way down. It's this one specifically:

For my 3rd session, I had the airflow 3/4 closed whereas previously with the Micro Torch, it was completely open. With this new torch and airflow setting, heat up time was about 30 seconds but the entire session tasted like burnt popcorn from start to finish. Draw restriction was also too tight I found. I'm not sure if mine is one of those that had the air restriction issues, but I found it tough to draw on at that setting.

I think I went for the 4th session too quickly. The draw was way too tight for me so I opened it up completely again and used the same kitchen torch. Another 30 second heat up to click. The session started off fine, but ended in combustion. I think the 4th session was less than 20 minutes from the 3rd, so that may have played a factor.

I think this was referred to previously in some of the videos, but there does seem to be a optimal rate for ramping up the heat, sort of similar to how varying coil depths on induction heaters have different heating curves with Vapcaps. It seems to me that this guy is just too big as I had the flame turned almost as low as you can go.

Like the fellows have been using in the demo vids, I placed an order for a Blazer Firefox. At 4.5" tall, it falls in between the pocket torch and the 6" Sondiko kitchen torch. I probably should have done this from the get-go. As it stands, I'm going back to the Micro Torch until the Firefox arrives.

Edit: As a PSA, I think part of the reason I may have combusted earlier is because I misunderstood how this device worked. It turns out, it was the opposite of what I had thought.

If you want completely open air flow, this is the position you need to set the Anvil in:

And for the most restricted air flow setting this is what it should look like:

At the end of the day, like with everything else, things are going to differ from person to person as we all do things in different ways, but the battery is the battery and the amount that you could load into the device has limits.

Having said that, I probably wouldn't want or be able to share a sub-0.1g joint with someone and the fact that we're discussing the possibility of a vape potentially being able to says something about it I think.

 

[bossman]

Welp... Completely screwed something up last night, first run with the PT4000 and combusted.

Ugh.

Took it completely apart and iso soaked it... Then grabbed my TM and finished off the night while sulking...!

That's a drag. It's not your fault: the PT4000 is built nicely and lights on the first try reliably but its single flame isn't big enough to click anywhere near 30 seconds. I've gotten some super dense full bowl RTL hits heating slowly with the PT4k (the only option) but now that I got some cheaper torches with a bigger single flame the PT is going to be emptied and sold.

The two I vouch for are this Ronx kitchen torch and the off-brand Honest pencil torch @Easywider recommended, each under twenty bucks.

 

[My_50p_worth]

I think there's a balance with speed and the size of your flame. Back in December when I received my Founders Edition, one of the first things I discovered that too much heat, too quickly was definitely not a good thing.

Oh absolutely, but that’s a different discussion really. The point I was making is that a slow roast doesn’t work like it does on a DV and gives you that longer lasting heat soak. But yes you can absolutely overpower the anvil with heat if you try and venture under that 30 second standard. Lower airflow can too.

I have combusted it many times as I’ve been playing with the device and trying to find the walls and ceiling so at this point I've signed it off as part of the process

Also agree with your viewpoint on it not being a “group session joint” - to build further on that point, it bears mentioning that depending what point you get it in the rotation you may have totally different effects to the guy that got it later when the high temp molecules release. I’d be frustrated getting first tokes for sure

As a solo vapour joint though? I’m very happy with the experience and like the shorter duration as it’s not as much to commit to as an entire joint

 

[enrarit]

That's a drag. It's not your fault: the PT4000 is built nicely and lights on the first try reliably but its single flame isn't big enough to click anywhere near 30 seconds. I've gotten some super dense full bowl RTL hits heating slowly with the PT4k (the only option) but now that I got some cheaper torches with a bigger single flame the PT is going to be emptied and sold.

The two I vouch for are this Ronx kitchen torch and the off-brand Honest pencil torch @Easywider recommended, each under twenty bucks.

It's a great torch, love the kickstand on it too; can't help but think I did something fucky though...

I have two other torches to test out, an Honest pencil torch - Here

And a twin jet pencil - Here

 

[endof3d]

I use @Whiff heating time suggestions, I’ve got a medium size kitchen torch I’ve calibrated to click in 30 seconds or so when aimed at the copper block. I only go to the first click, as this more aggressive heating style “bumps” the second click into action like a second after the first and waiting for it can combust/vapbust.

Fine grind (the DV SS screens seem to really help here) I pack it a little tighter than John would maybe suggest, but the smaller plant particles allow for this.

50% airflow all the time. Feels exactly like the draw of my old joints I would roll. This will be preference though so don’t be afraid to experiment and find a draw similar to what you’re used to. Just be aware that less airflow = more heat concentrated into the airstream = higher bowl temp. We’re already playing with fine margins doing such an aggressive heatup and this can be enough to push the temp just over the edge

Great explanation! Filled a lot of blanks in that where missing. Thank you.

I have no patience for the "make this more like smoking" angles on any vape though really. Smoking was never good, it was just all we had. I defy anybody to spend time using an Anvil like it was intended and then combust by accident and say, "oh, that's better!"

Point taken. Was hoping that the Anvil might be the solution for not having to send my combustion friends out into our sub zero Canadian winters to get high. Probably a better idea is to purchase a couple more and let them experiment on their own. Wasn't this exactly how my DV collection got started?

 

[enrarit]

... and then combust by accident and say, "oh, that's better!"

Yup...disgusting, lungs and mouth felt "dirty"afterwards.

For the record I was a 1/2 pack to full pack a day smoker but quit cold turkey in 2009... Could be why combustion really gets to me.

 

[Texus]

It's a great torch, love the kickstand on it too; can't help but think I did something fucky though...

I have two other torches to test out, an Honest pencil torch - Here

And a twin jet pencil - Here

I'll need to time my BT-4000 and see how close I can get to 30s without combusting. Feel like I've done RTL or darn close with it once I got flame size and where to aim it locked in.

 

[RedZep]

I've used the Anvil every day since the founders edition. For me the novelty has worn off.

Now I'm using the device daily on pure merit of potency, efficiency, practicality.

Well done John. It's a serious vape this.

 

[enrarit]

I'll need to time my BT-4000 and see how close I can get to 30s without combusting. Feel like I've done RTL or darn close with it once I got flame size and where to aim it locked in.

Solid copy!

 

[seki]

Oh absolutely, but that’s a different discussion really. The point I was making is that a slow roast doesn’t work like it does on a DV and gives you that longer lasting heat soak. But yes you can absolutely overpower the anvil with heat if you try and venture under that 30 second standard. Lower airflow can too.

I have combusted it many times as I’ve been playing with the device and trying to find the walls and ceiling so at this point I've signed it off as part of the process

Also agree with your viewpoint on it not being a “group session joint” - to build further on that point, it bears mentioning that depending what point you get it in the rotation you may have totally different effects to the guy that got it later when the high temp molecules release. I’d be frustrated getting first tokes for sure

As a solo vapour joint though? I’m very happy with the experience and like the shorter duration as it’s not as much to commit to as an entire joint

I agree, it's not like a Dynavap at all. My assumption is the sweet spot for applying heat to create a longer vapour production window is somewhere between 40-60 seconds. It's been my experience that anything beyond that would be subject to diminishing returns and risks combustion. I guess I should have clarified that I consider a "slow" heat up to be somewhere in the 45-60 second range and what I consider fast is 25-35. This all depends on your torch and flame size too of course, so it's all relative. My set up results in 40 second heat ups to the click from cold on a full chamber and yields 30+ second windows through glass consistently. I posted a pic earlier in the thread illustrating my set up for testing using the exact same parameters, (load amount, flame size) in order to gauge how many cycles a Firefox could output:

I found even a smaller flame size properly placed can yield good results. Do you find the more aggressive heating results in longer vapour production windows? To be fair, when I heat that way I'm typically trying to extract as quickly as possible so I don't really make note of heat retention specifically in those instances.

On a different note, Does anyone have any thoughts on the device being conduction vs. convection? I noticed John mentioned that it's mostly a convection device in the Sneaky Pete interview. I think the idea was that the herb decarboxylates from ambient heat as it's applied, but is primarily convection once a draw is taken and the air is forced through the chamber. I don't know how I'd characterize the vapour to be honest. It doesn't feel or taste like your "traditional" convection device like the Flowerpot, Herborizer or other injector style devices out there. But it also differs from conduction devices like the VapCap or even a Vapman. If the link isn't working properly, the section in question is at approximately 48:00 into the video:

To be clear, I'm not holding him at his 95%-98% convection statement. I'm not sure I agree, but I get that he's just estimating and throwing a number out there. The vapour is thick like you'd expect out of a conduction device, but doesn't quite have the same taste, that's the main thing that stops me from arguing that it's mainly conduction. I couldn't argue effectively against that, but it just doesn't "feel" like it's primarily or even possibly, mostly conduction. At the same time, it doesn't quite taste like a convection device, nor is the vapour profile identical in that regard either. I don't know, it's different at the very least.

Regular q-tips fit with elbow grease

I was wondering about that putting my Anvil back together yesterday. The spiral was the only sticky bit after cleaning but it was my fault for forgetting to take it out of the body before the iso bath. My guess is it's still worth having for my j-hook hits and not so much with the bubbler

I had to clean my unit yesterday and decided to re-assemble without the spiral. I reasoned that because I use mostly though water the added benefit would be minimal, but I was wrong. Even through my bubbler, I was finding the same type of hits were causing me some chest discomfort. I don't know if it was temperature, volume, vapour conditioning or a combination, but after re-inserting the spiral I'm finding it to be much more comfortable.

 

[Texus]

I think that the diagram of the Anvil shows clearly why John calls this 95% convection. That chamber is entirely surrounded by air other than where it threads onto the device. Though I suppose that then raises the question of how long it takes the herb chamber walls to get to conduction temperatures due to the heat of that minimum contact area and the heat of the air.

And I think with all the variation and challenges that some folks are having getting a great hit, more photos like that would be great. Maybe a series of flame lengths, different spots being heated and the resulting ABV. Would be nice to have all in one place.

 

[letter never sent]

@seki is the photo in your post the way you typically heat yours? Very helpful illustration!

I got my order in this morning. Grabbed the unit with purple heatshield, case, half bowl, extra screens and o-rings just in case. Blazer Firefox should be here today.

 

[caliganja420]

I also placed my order today, very excited to try it out. I got the purple heat shield and half bowl as well. Wondering what torch now… I have a single flame torch and a quad flame torch, will that suffice?

 

[Petetbay]

If interested, Anvil review @ Don’t Worry Vape Happy.

 

[stonedmallone]

@seki is the photo in your post the way you typically heat yours? Very helpful illustration!

I got my order in this morning. Grabbed the unit with purple heatshield, case, half bowl, extra screens and o-rings just in case. Blazer Firefox should be here today.

Yeah honestly this was helpful. I didn't realize how close the flame tip should be! I need to bring my tip closer. I was using the outer flame tip whoops

 

[seki]

@seki is the photo in your post the way you typically heat yours? Very helpful illustration!

I got my order in this morning. Grabbed the unit with purple heatshield, case, half bowl, extra screens and o-rings just in case. Blazer Firefox should be here today.

Yeah honestly this was helpful. I didn't realize how close the flame tip should be! I need to bring my tip closer. I was using the outer flame tip whoops

Glad it helped! The flame can be a touch longer by a few more millimetres, but this is pretty much the exact setup I described earlier in the thread that gave me consistent ~40 second heat ups. I was able to pretty much replicate this consistently for an entire Firefox tank from start to finish, which ended up being 54 bowls.

Edit: Did a quick video of a heat cycle. The flame here is a touch too long unlike in the pic above, the session was slightly toastier than I like. Still good, but I'd normally go for a slightly smaller flame:

https://imgur.com/nA7C9IO

 

[chlorophyll_man]

I didn't realize how close the flame tip should be!

I think this variable is worth bringing up.
It can be used to get the most heat out of a smaller torch flame, or to tame down the heat of a torch with an oversize flame.
I think this clip illustrates it well:

✂️ Flame distance

57 seconds · Clipped by Chlorophyll Man · Original video "Using a Butane Torch For Making Your Own Jewellery At Home" by Andrew Berry

youtube.com