Advanced E-cig users and oil/wax, how-to "one-hitter-quitter"

[2clicker]

New to concentrates. have only tried what my buddy gets and he originally called it wax but then another friend of ours called it oil. trying to figure out what we've got here. don't have a pic cuz i haven't gotten my own jar yet but it is thick, viscous and sticky, amber/brown color. it is not liquid nor is it solid or cloudy at room temp. would this be rso? is that different from bho or just a specific type? what type of pen/atomizer would be best for this type of concentrate?

as you can tell i am very much a novice, any help would be appreciated.

oil and wax are the same. "wax" is a term to describe the viscosity of the oil. you will see wax, shatter, crumble, and other terms for oil, but they are all hash oil.

there are many options for a device to consume oil. some great others horrible. the pre made stuff work great but are expensive to replace coils all the time. that is why this thread exists. if you go the rebuildable route you will save tons of money on coils.

if you want easy plug and play check out the "dabbler" pen and coils. that is what i would use if i bought pre made coils.

 

[Haywood]

... my newly braided ceramic coiled ProTank2 base in dab mode. my first attempt netted me a 1.3ohm coil. this coil RIPS, but is a tad harsh. this was also the case on my IGO-L with the same wire. i am starting to think that the 28gauge kanthal is too hot for my throat. i am going to experiment with 30 and 32 gauge instead. does anyone know the gauge wire that kanger uses in their stock coils? they seem to work perfectly in that regard, but fuck silica. ... with ceramic wick they taste AMAZING!

I suspect your harshness is only indirectly caused by the gauge of the wire. I think it's more likely caused by the resistance you end up with. If you could wrap four more coils (without them shorting to each other), and bring the resistance up to the 2.0Ω range, you might find that the harshness is mostly gone, even though you're still using the same 28 gauge wire. You could also use thinner Kanthal, 30 or 32 gauge, and stick with the same number of wraps you currently have, again trying for something in the 2.0Ω range. What voltage are you feeding your 1.3Ω coil?

This is the part of making your own coils that gets to be fun... Experimenting with number of wraps, their spacing, and their thickness. Finding the supply voltage and coil resistance that works best with whatever kind of concentrate you happen to be vaping. You might find that wrapping a large number of coils with thick wire doesn't work as well as winding fewer coils with thinner wire (maybe because more wick is exposed?). Or you might find that a microcoil works better than either.

... my mini PT3 arrived yesterday, but have only tried solids in it so far. rips good just like my other PTs do in dab mode. as for liquid use... i expect better performance from the mPT3 in the cloud production and possibly flavor, but i still expect the same leakage issues as all the other PT tanks. im thinking maybe the aerotank may eliminate this due to its air path not being completely vertical. i will likely be getting a reg aerotank for solids and a mini aerotank (when they are available) for liquids. oh and btw... i am pretty sure the internal metal parts of the PTs are indeed SS, but the top and bottom parts are plated. at this point i will be using PT tanks only for both solids and liquids.

I'm very happy with the 2.2Ω Joyetech 510 Atomizers I was discussing earlier in this thread, for use with non-liquid concentrates. Yes they use silica, yes you have to rip out the bridge yourself, and yes, you don't get to experiment with different coils, but they seem to work perfectly, have never leaked on me (even when I grossly overfill them), and don't burn out. (Sounds like my rant about the Sapphire clearos...).

I have hopes for the mPT3 to work well with Pure Gold (or a liquid concentrate I mix myself). I was not thinking about using them for non-liquid stuff though. I will not put up with significant leaking, even if it only happens 10% of the time. It looks like my mPT3's just made it through the local USPS sorting center, so I hope to have them tomorrow or Saturday. I plan on trying them with the stock coil first, as I want to see if they leak with the setup that the mfg provides. The type, thickness, and number of wicks often play a significant role in how well a clearo wicks and how much it leaks. Before I wrap a silicon wick with my own wire, I want to see if the mPT3 wicks OK and DOES NOT LEAK on it's own. If it performs well, then I'll try what you're already trying. That way if it starts leaking with my coil setup, I can look to add a "flavor" wick, and see if that "fixes" things, etc. I also plan on starting out with plain VG, so I don't waste a shitload of Pure Gold only to discover I screwed something up.

I also want to try the mini aerotank when it comes out, though again I'm looking for a Pure Gold solution, not a non-liquid solution.

Onward Thru the Fog

 

[DabComa]

I've had trouble trying to keep the PT attys stable resistance wise, when it is very gently poked it always fluctuates in resistance. I only have a PT3 to tinker with but in those, there is no metal cup although there is the ficade of one, once the rubber grommet and metal positive terminal node are inserted into the metal tube rather that holds the coil, I guess the PT 2 would be different by your description of the steel cup?

 

[2clicker]

I've had trouble trying to keep the PT attys stable resistance wise, when it is very gently poked it always fluctuates in resistance. I only have a PT3 to tinker with but in those, there is no metal cup although there is the ficade of one, once the rubber grommet and metal positive terminal node are inserted into the metal tube rather that holds the coil, I guess the PT 2 would be different by your description of the steel cup?

no. my mPT3 has the dual coils and has the same cup. its just a taller cup. the cup i speak of is what is exposed after you remove the top tube part of the head. remove it as well as the silicone seal that sits on it. then you have the coil/wick inside the cup. just look at the pic above. the dual coils are the same just a taller cup.

I suspect your harshness is only indirectly caused by the gauge of the wire. I think it's more likely caused by the resistance you end up with. If you could wrap four more coils (without them shorting to each other), and bring the resistance up to the 2.0Ω range, you might find that the harshness is mostly gone, even though you're still using the same 28 gauge wire. You could also use thinner Kanthal, 30 or 32 gauge, and stick with the same number of wraps you currently have, again trying for something in the 2.0Ω range. What voltage are you feeding your 1.3Ω coil?

This is the part of making your own coils that gets to be fun... Experimenting with number of wraps, their spacing, and their thickness. Finding the supply voltage and coil resistance that works best with whatever kind of concentrate you happen to be vaping. You might find that wrapping a large number of coils with thick wire doesn't work as well as winding fewer coils with thinner wire (maybe because more wick is exposed?). Or you might find that a microcoil works better than either.



I'm very happy with the 2.2Ω Joyetech 510 Atomizers I was discussing earlier in this thread, for use with non-liquid concentrates. Yes they use silica, yes you have to rip out the bridge yourself, and yes, you don't get to experiment with different coils, but they seem to work perfectly, have never leaked on me (even when I grossly overfill them), and don't burn out. (Sounds like my rant about the Sapphire clearos...).

I have hopes for the mPT3 to work well with Pure Gold (or a liquid concentrate I mix myself). I was not thinking about using them for non-liquid stuff though. I will not put up with significant leaking, even if it only happens 10% of the time. It looks like my mPT3's just made it through the local USPS sorting center, so I hope to have them tomorrow or Saturday. I plan on trying them with the stock coil first, as I want to see if they leak with the setup that the mfg provides. The type, thickness, and number of wicks often play a significant role in how well a clearo wicks and how much it leaks. Before I wrap a silicon wick with my own wire, I want to see if the mPT3 wicks OK and DOES NOT LEAK on it's own. If it performs well, then I'll try what you're already trying. That way if it starts leaking with my coil setup, I can look to add a "flavor" wick, and see if that "fixes" things, etc. I also plan on starting out with plain VG, so I don't waste a shitload of Pure Gold only to discover I screwed something up.

I also want to try the mini aerotank when it comes out, though again I'm looking for a Pure Gold solution, not a non-liquid solution.

Onward Thru the Fog

i have a feeling that the mPT3 will leak (w/ liquid only) just like the other PTs do. that is why when i attempt to use mine for liquid i will be building the coils myself and inserting something below the single coil (extra room to do so in the dual coil heads) to help soak up anything that makes it below the coil. i dont know just a thought.

but this is where the aerotank will shine IMO. the air intake does not go straight down through the bottom like the other PTs. the air comes in through the side of the base. this may help in the leak department.

and thanks for the input on the coil harshness. i thought it was the gauge of wire because my IGO-L with the same wire, with a 2.2ohm rated coil was just as harsh. i assumed that meant the larger wire was the culprit. i do not think i can squeeze 2-3 more wraps in there w/out shorting it out. im going to try some 30 gauge tonight with the same wraps and report back.

 

[matthend]

ok, now I am very curious... I have been using an aerotank for normal ecig juice for a while now, can I rig one of these atty's to vape straight bho? If so I am ordering some ceramic wick and kanthal right now!

 

[DabComa]

no. my mPT3 has the dual coils and has the same cup. its just a taller cup. the cup i speak of is what is exposed after you remove the top tube part of the head. remove it as well as the silicone seal that sits on it. then you have the coil/wick inside the cup. just look at the pic above. the dual coils are the same just a taller cup.



i have a feeling that the mPT3 will leak (w/ liquid only) just like the other PTs do. that is why when i attempt to use mine for liquid i will be building the coils myself and inserting something below the single coil (extra room to do so in the dual coil heads) to help soak up anything that makes it below the coil. i dont know just a thought.

but this is where the aerotank will shine IMO. the air intake does not go straight down through the bottom like the other PTs. the air comes in through the side of the base. this may help in the leak department.

and thanks for the input on the coil harshness. i thought it was the gauge of wire because my IGO-L with the same wire, with a 2.2ohm rated coil was just as harsh. i assumed that meant the larger wire was the culprit. i do not think i can squeeze 2-3 more wraps in there w/out shorting it out. im going to try some 30 gauge tonight with the same wraps and report back.

I see what your saying but that's why I use the term ficade of a cup, when fully assembled it appears to have a cup, but disassembled you really find out the coil is free floating across a mettalic tunnel, with an air hole below, maybe the dual coil attys have a cup but there is none in the attys I have again, only the ficade of one.
I've tried putting wick or cotton under the coil and all it succeeds in is restricting air flow... Badly.

 

[2clicker]

I see what your saying but that's why I use the term ficade of a cup, when fully assembled it appears to have a cup, but disassembled you really find out the coil is free floating across a mettalic tunnel, with an air hole below, maybe the dual coil attys have a cup but there is none in the attys I have again, only the ficade of one.
I've tried putting wick or cotton under the coil and all it succeeds in is restricting air flow... Badly.

im sure we are talking about the same thing. the cup im talking about is the raised edges around the coil. it has the sides cut out for the wick to extend through on both sides. it resembles a cup to me at least. it def has holes on the sides and bottom, but i havent seen any oil heading south yet.

ok, now I am very curious... I have been using an aerotank for normal ecig juice for a while now, can I rig one of these atty's to vape straight bho? If so I am ordering some ceramic wick and kanthal right now!

yes you can! and it works as well if not better than using an RDA to vape solids.

i am going to start a thread specifically about coiling/modding Kanger Pro Tanks for use with solids. pics and all.

stay tuned!

 

[215z]

Tryna get medicated with OGKxSD ice-water extract (tested @ 48+ %THC by Steep Hill Halent) in this MFLB. It's getting frustrating, and with my shortcomings as a human being, I'm inclined to blame the MFLB for what really is a tolerance problem. But it is an important lesson: It takes more energy - alot more energy - to vape heavy/dark oils than light/clear oils.

The 1ohm "vapin donuts" have been shipped by FatDaddyVapes, I will give you guys an update on the size of the coil and the ductility of the legs. In my stoner fantasy, I will be able to rebuild a UP KISS Cart, its Ti filament and ceramic wick with a Hercules Ti wick and Vapin Donut. I already have the extra Hercules Oil Coil on hand, and the Okeanos is on order. As soon as I burn out the filament (inevitable according to the Persei thread), I will experiment with the dryburn-safe modification.

 

[BHOMG]

damn lots of good notes in this thread... I've flagged a few posts that I wanna experiment with... in general, where are you guys getting your filaments and wicks and tinier parts like that? I have a few local places I can get pens and tanks from, but for the more hobbyist parts, what's a good source?

 

[walrus]

damn lots of good notes in this thread... I've flagged a few posts that I wanna experiment with... in general, where are you guys getting your filaments and wicks and tinier parts like that? I have a few local places I can get pens and tanks from, but for the more hobbyist parts, what's a good source?

http://www.kidneypuncher.com/ -Pretty decent one stop.

http://lightningvapes.com/ -good prices on wick and wire.

http://rbasupplies.com/ -best vendor I've found for xc-116

http://www.fasttech.com/ -Chinese everything. Dirt cheap, slow shipping.


@2clicker
Not sure if your "harsh taste" is the same thing I was experiencing or not. Sometimes on my rda (especially with a fresh new coil) I get a dry, throat scratching hit. I'm pretty sure it is from the wick not being saturated with concentrate. The dryness and harsh taste seemed to be from the bare wire heating the dry wick. When I melt a bit into the wick before I load my dab and everything is fully saturated, the harshness goes away. I've been breaking in my new coils quickly by dripping on a few drops of my ejmixed concentrate to saturate the wick entirely and vaping that for a few rounds before I start loading shatter on the new coil. The liquidized concentrate wets down the wick and, when vaped, begins oxidizing the coil. Dabs taste much smoother to me off of a broken in coil than off of a freshly wrapped one. I don't know if this is the same type of issue you were having, but I thought I'd pass it along.

 

[2clicker]

http://www.kidneypuncher.com/ -Pretty decent one stop.

http://lightningvapes.com/ -good prices on wick and wire.

http://rbasupplies.com/ -best vendor I've found for xc-116

http://www.fasttech.com/ -Chinese everything. Dirt cheap, slow shipping.


@2clicker
Not sure if your "harsh taste" is the same thing I was experiencing or not. Sometimes on my rda (especially with a fresh new coil) I get a dry, throat scratching hit. I'm pretty sure it is from the wick not being saturated with concentrate. The dryness and harsh taste seemed to be from the bare wire heating the dry wick. When I melt a bit into the wick before I load my dab and everything is fully saturated, the harshness goes away. I've been breaking in my new coils quickly by dripping on a few drops of my ejmixed concentrate to saturate the wick entirely and vaping that for a few rounds before I start loading shatter on the new coil. The liquidized concentrate wets down the wick and, when vaped, begins oxidizing the coil. Dabs taste much smoother to me off of a broken in coil than off of a freshly wrapped one. I don't know if this is the same type of issue you were having, but I thought I'd pass it along.

i will check this out. thanks! originally i was heating it all up to melt into the wick but have stopped. ill experiment some more, but id still like to try the 30 gauge wire.

regarding the readywick from RBAsupplies.com... so far i like this stuff, but i find it still frays a bit when cut and this worries me a tad. i can even see small fibers come off of it and on my fingers when feeding it through a coil. is this something i should be worried about? if so i may go back to using SS for my wicks.

 

[215z]

I have so many questions for y'all. I'm pretty vaked on Cinderella '99 (thank you Magnolia!).

2clicker, did you used to use SS rope or SS mesh (rolled up) as wicks in the past? How well did it wick undiluted hash oil?

Haywood, why do you like the mPT2 more than other mass manufactured tanks, like a Kanger EVOD or Aspire Nautilus? Why do you like the Joyetech cart more than all the other all-SS cheap carts you've tried, like the Boge (510), Smok (510), and Utopia Planitia (601) carts?

 

[2clicker]

@215z, yes i have used SS mesh rolled up tightly as a wick. it works well, but i felt i was getting a metal taste so i switched to a braided ceramic wick. it tastes amazing.

 

[fernand]

I also plan on starting out with plain VG, so I don't waste a shitload of Pure Gold only to discover I screwed something up.

Onward Thru the Fog

Pls remember that Glycerol = VG boils at 290 deg C but decomposes in the process. One of the products of decomposition is Acrolein, a nasty thing. That's 554 Deg F. A red hot coil is well over 1000 deg F, right? As a long time nicotine vaper I've always found any glowing portion of a coil a nono as it can decompose VG, where the hot wire meets the cool wick. But on a nicotine rig we don't let a coil dry burn. That's just a huge difference. A LOT of people are struggling with these issues, starting with all the unfortunate suckers who have purchased "vaporize anything" pen rigs off ebay.

And no Boge carto or the like can work with oil because it's way too viscous, won't wick, right? Oils only poorly dissolve in (rather polar) glycols, so whenever the oil is thinned, there have been separation issues. This EJ mix is supposed to be more miscible with oils. The O-Pen-Vape carts I've gotten work perfectly, a couple of tokes can adequately medicate. And on a VV rig you can further adjust the vape. It's just that the glycols they add at best would be described as tasting "tolerable".

Pure Gold seems like a special case, and if it works as-is in the Sapphire, that's a go-to solution right there, in my book.

@Haywood also discovered that debridged 2.2 ohm Joyes atomizers can be used as-is by some fluke of the construction, if you dump enough oil/wax down the barrel. I think the 2.4, 2.6 and 3.0 are built the same, nice long coil, good on a VV like a Provari. I'm still working on the patient surviving the debridging. I wonder if while vaping the coil is fully immersed or partly glowing?

@2clicker if you're picking up silica fibers that's like fiberglass or glass wool insulation. Bad to handle. bad to breathe. In an e-cig rig any loose glass fibers are soaked in liquid and stay put. In a drippin' or dabbin' rig, it might be more prone to separation and nuisance-making.

 

[walrus]

i will check this out. thanks! originally i was heating it all up to melt into the wick but have stopped. ill experiment some more, but id still like to try the 30 gauge wire.

regarding the readywick from RBAsupplies.com... so far i like this stuff, but i find it still frays a bit when cut and this worries me a tad. i can even see small fibers come off of it and on my fingers when feeding it through a coil. is this something i should be worried about? if so i may go back to using SS for my wicks.

Mine doesn't fray much at all when cut but I do get some small fibers coming off of it occasionally. Supposedly the heat treating process eliminates any super fine fibers that would cause an inhalation risk. Fibers from silica wicks, for example, are smaller than any fibers left on treated xc116 and are more prone to cause respiratory irritation if inhaled.

Untreated xc116 can be an inhalation hazard but, according to the manufacturer, heat treating eliminates any fibers that would be considered a risk. Personally, I don't experience any irritation when using these wicks.

A light torching reduces the amount of fibers you will see when working with it but I don't even do that. Once the wick has a hit or 2 of ejuice or oil ran through it, I have never seen any fibers come off of it. The inside of my RDA and mouthpiece becomes coated with reclaim after a while and I have never seen any ceramic fibers stuck to that reclaim.

I was concerned with this initially as well but at this point I feel totally comfortable using this product

 

[fernand]

So torching does what? It melts the smallest loose fibers?

I have a humble request. Can you trailblazers put up more pics please? That would be very helpful to the rest of us, so we can see all the things y'all talk about! For instance I'd love to see the inside of a Joye atty full o' melt w/ and w/out power.

 

[walrus]

Torching just stiffens the wick up a bit and makes it less prone to fibers flaking off.

Also, 2click, I noticed you mentioned threading your wick through the coil. I used to do this as well but I find it easier to wrap my coil directly around the wick. I push a large sewing needle through the center of the wick to stiffen it up then wrap the coil directly around the wick so it contacts the wick firmly without going too tight and choking it out. Then remove the nredle and mount your coil. I find this easier to wrap the perfect diameter coil so that the wick is not too loose or too tight inside.

 

[2clicker]

@fernand, im using the same ceramic wick that walrus is using. its def not silica.

@walrus, the only reason i ask is because i wasnt expecting any fraying at all. i suppose i need to handle the wick as little as possible to keep the fraying down.

my concern comes from the pics on the retailers website of how both ends look (treated and untreated) and my wick did start to look like the untreated wick.

i will just have to be more carefull.

 

[Haywood]

A couple of reviews have started showing up for the new aerotanks (the Mini and the Mega).

Phil Busardo's review.

The VapinGreek's review:

 

[2clicker]

A couple of reviews have started showing up for the new aerotanks (the Mini and the Mega).

Phil Busardo's review.

The VapinGreek's review:

i will have to check these out later. i think i am leaning torwards the mega for solids use.

 

[Haywood]

i have a feeling that the mPT3 will leak (w/ liquid only) just like the other PTs do. that is why when i attempt to use mine for liquid i will be building the coils myself and inserting something below the single coil (extra room to do so in the dual coil heads) to help soak up anything that makes it below the coil. i dont know just a thought. but this is where the aerotank will shine IMO. the air intake does not go straight down through the bottom like the other PTs. the air comes in through the side of the base. this may help in the leak department.

Unfortunately, I think @DabComa's comment that putting a wick or cotton below the coil will only manage to restrict airflow is probably correct. Not sure it would help stop the leaking anyway. Let us know, I'd love to be wrong. (Actually, I'd love that it wasn't needed because there was no leaking).

and thanks for the input on the coil harshness. i thought it was the gauge of wire because my IGO-L with the same wire, with a 2.2ohm rated coil was just as harsh. i assumed that meant the larger wire was the culprit. i do not think i can squeeze 2-3 more wraps in there w/out shorting it out. im going to try some 30 gauge tonight with the same wraps and report back.

Well, just because it makes sense to me doesn't mean it's the answer. Your experiments will give us both the actual answer...

Haywood, why do you like the mPT2 more than other mass manufactured tanks, like a Kanger EVOD or Aspire Nautilus? Why do you like the Joyetech cart more than all the other all-SS cheap carts you've tried, like the Boge (510), Smok (510), and Utopia Planitia (601) carts?

I haven't received the Micro PT3s (not 2s) yet. They're still in USPS limbo, but if I'm lucky they will arrive tomorrow. @2clicker has his and is experimenting with it now. I have hopes it will be a better carrier for undiluted Pure Gold than the current GotVapes Sapphire clearos I'm currently using. It might turn out that I ordered them too soon, as the new Mini Aerotank, also from Kanger, may be even better...

I prefer the 2.2Ω Joye atty's, after de-bridging, because they work really great with every kind of concentrate I've vaped in them. I run them between 7.5 watts and 10 watts, depending on what concentrate I'm vaping (that's 4.0V to 4.7V with a 2.2Ω load). They don't burn out (I've run MANY grams of concentrates through my #1 Joye), they don't need cleaning, and simply heating up the top of the shell with a lighter for a few seconds causes all the condensed oil to drain nicely down from the sides into the core. They're not "cheap" though. Normal (not on super secret sale) price is $8 or $9 each. Not in the same price category as an HH357 maybe, but not cheap. I've talked about what I like about the Joye's in a previous message in this thread, so check it out for more info.

Pls remember that Glycerol = VG boils at 290 deg C but decomposes in the process. One of the products of decomposition is Acrolein, a nasty thing.

I've read the info too, but since my initial testing of the (hopefully) soon to arrive Mini PT3s will involve just using 100%VG with the factory coil, how is this any different from how everyone else in the e-cig world is using all of their carto/clearos? I'm going with 100% VG because I want the liquid to be as thick as the undiluted Pure Gold is going to be. That will tell me if there are any wicking or leaking problems. I could always mix Propylene Glycol in with the VG (or use 100% Propylene Glycol), but using a thinner test liquid will not make for a good simulation of what Pure Gold (or diluted concentrate) is going to be like.

And no Boge carto or the like can work with oil because it's way too viscous, won't wick, right? Oils only poorly dissolve in (rather polar) glycols, so whenever the oil is thinned, there have been separation issues. This EJ mix is supposed to be more miscible with oils.

Pure Gold seems like a special case, and if it works as-is in the Sapphire, that's a go-to solution right there, in my book.

Finding the right mix agent (like ejmix or a combo of VG and PG) and concentration to dilute non-liquid concentrates is step three in my current quest. Step one was finding a great atty for non-liquid concentrates, which for me turned out to be the 2.2Ω Joye with the bridge removed. I'm satisfied with it, and have moved on to quest two, which is finding a clearo and home made coil assembly for diluted concentrates (and Pure Gold for that matter) that I like better than the Sapphire. Good luck with removing the bridge from the Joye without destroying it.

 

[MTBerVAPEer]

I bought galvanized steel cable from the hardware store, not stainless. Don't use that stuff because it tastes god awful and is probably has toxic levels of zinc. I could be wrong on this one but I abandoned the cable build, which was 1/16 cable,









Last but not least, what are your thoughts on using the galvanized steel cable? Do you think zinc toxicity is a possible issue?

Thanks for reading this and sorry for bumping a month old thread.

Dont ever use galvanized for inhaling that is extremely toxic.

As for gettinga hit or two off your stainless build soubds right i constantly load my pen it truly mowes through oil

 

[2clicker]

this thread is awesome. just sayin...

 

[215z]

Haywood have you considered using straight limonene for testing as a substitute for Pure Gold consistency oil? Not as cheap as food-grade glycerin, but no tears will be shed if you have to dump a tank.

 

[DabComa]

hey @2clicker what happened to your protank thread? We should get it rolling