Hey! Great idea man, using the vapin donut with a ti coil and a kiss cart for the ceramic cup. I guess you need to see if the diameter of everything fits properly... Please report back with your results!!
Advanced E-cig users and oil/wax, how-to "one-hitter-quitter"
- Thread starter TrueNorthStar
- Start date
2clicker
Observer
absolutely. ive been lazy and havent gotten it together. need to snap some pics. i will it up today after the hockey game i am about to watch.
fernand
Well-Known Member
@Haywood what I'm trying to picture is what happens to the wax that's gone liquid around your Joye coil, and slurpin' around. That's why I was pleading for a photo. I think you said that it doesn't for some obscure reason soak into the stainless "liquid pad" around the coil cup. I guess the 3 Ohm one I'm debridging next will tell me, but I worry I'm going to have to dump a gram in there before it "stabilizes" ...
215z
Well-Known Member
Hi Nick, my KISS cart arrived yesterday, and the Ti coil is too big to fit its ceramic cup. The Ti coil/sponge is very stiff, i can't "stuff" it into the hole. I will be on the hunt for a juicer RDA that is wide enough to fit the UP Ti coil, as I have given up trying to buy the Ti sponge.
Haywood
Onward Thru the Fog
@fernand: I'll try to grab some "loaded" Joye atty pics tomorrow (no promises). I load anywhere between one wooden-match-head size to two or three wooden-match-head "pieces" (or drips or whatevers). Or something like that. I don't bother to weigh it. Once what-ever-form-it-was-before has melted down to oil, it can easily cover the entire ceramic cup and wick and coil (and the metal mesh around the cup) by 3-4mm. So for me, one "travel" load is about 3-4mm of melted down wax/shatter/goop/whatever. That's height in the atty above the top of the ceramic cup. No relation to weight at all, but all I can give you now. The whatever-it-was-to-begin-with sitting right above the coil turns into oil right away, and after three or so hits, whatever-it-was is now mostly all oil. Sometimes if I want a really full load, I'll load the atty, then take a few hits to melt everything down, and then I'll top it off with a little more whatever.
A fully loaded Joye (that has melted oil that's 3-4mm above the coil) will not have any airflow, as the oil is completely covering everything, sealing off the bottom of the atty. Firing the battery for one second before taking a hit vaporizes an air path right above and below the coil, and you get a great first hit. Until you put the atty down, the oil does NOT reclog the airpath, so you can take as many hits at whatever pace you want, and you don't have to pre-fire the battery. When you finally put the atty down for a while, it will probably reclog the airpath, until you've done 3/4 of the oil you loaded. If you suck and get no airflow, just keep holding the battery button down for one second and all will work again. I get dozens and dozens of hits before I have to even think about reloading. I get zero leaks.
There is some effort involved in this though. Nothing very complicated. After you've vaped the first third of your 3-4mm load, you should probably take off the drip tip and heat the drip tip end of the atty with a lighter for a few seconds so that the vapor that has condensed back to oil on the insides of the atty shell between the ceramic cup and the drip tip will drain back down the sides toward the cup/coil/wick. Nothing profound, no torch needed, just a lighter, and only heat the atty a little at the top, just enough to heat the shell enough so that the oil drains back down. If you start to get a wisp of vapor smoke while you're doing this, you're heating the atty shell to much. Takes all of 10 seconds.
After you've vaped another third (so you've vaped two thirds of your 3-4mm load), it pays to have a little tool. You repeat the procedure you did for the first third, melting the oil on the insides of the atty shell back down, and then you take a tool that's shaped like a thick needle with a very rounded (not pointed) end. I use either a 2mm thick SS darning like needle that's 7cm long and has 3cm of cloth gaffer's tape around the end with the hole for the thread, so I don't burn my fingers if I decide to heat up the tool. Or I use a 3mm thick titanium gizmo with about the same dimensions made for this kind of thing. Anyway, once the oil level is low enough so that the top of the cup and coil are visible, it sometimes nice to help the oil that's hanging around on top of the metal mesh surrounding the ceramic core, and the top edges of the ceramic core. We don't generally keep taking hits one after the other for minutes on end, so we never really heat up the ceramic core itself anywhere near hot enough to vaporize oil. That all happens on and within a half mm of the coil (inside the ceramic cup). So when the oil starts to get low, heat up the poker a little and run it around the bottom inside edge of the atty shell. The very blunt and rounded tip of the tool you're using should be sitting on top of the metal surround mesh while you're rotating the atty, so that all the nice oil gets pushed into the ceramic cup and on top of the wick. I've been doing this for weeks and weeks, and I haven't damaged the coil or the core or the wick. And I'm always stoned when I do it. I'm still on my first two Joye atty's as well, and I haven't had any need to clean them either.
Oh, and don't forget to get the condensed oil from inside the drip tip too...
Oh, and when you start a fresh atty, drop a small glob of concentrate on top of the coil, just big enough to cover the coil and wick and the edges of the ceramic cup. Then (without putting the drip tip on), just give one second pulses on the battery every few seconds until the concentrate turns to liquid (oil), and soaks into the new wick and insides of the ceramic cup. If the rising vapor starts to obscure your view of the coil, just blow into the top of the atty to disperse the vapor. Don't be in a rush, give the concentrate time to turn to oil and saturate the wick/coil/cup. You only have to do this once, when the atty is new. And don't try to get greedy and inhale the vape while you're conditioning the wick; you'll burn your mouth. (Don't ask me how I know). Once you've conditioned the virgin wick, put a normal load in. And there's no way you'll "waste" a gram of concentrate "priming" the atty and its mesh. The amount of concentrate "priming" the atty is very very small.
A fully loaded Joye (that has melted oil that's 3-4mm above the coil) will not have any airflow, as the oil is completely covering everything, sealing off the bottom of the atty. Firing the battery for one second before taking a hit vaporizes an air path right above and below the coil, and you get a great first hit. Until you put the atty down, the oil does NOT reclog the airpath, so you can take as many hits at whatever pace you want, and you don't have to pre-fire the battery. When you finally put the atty down for a while, it will probably reclog the airpath, until you've done 3/4 of the oil you loaded. If you suck and get no airflow, just keep holding the battery button down for one second and all will work again. I get dozens and dozens of hits before I have to even think about reloading. I get zero leaks.
There is some effort involved in this though. Nothing very complicated. After you've vaped the first third of your 3-4mm load, you should probably take off the drip tip and heat the drip tip end of the atty with a lighter for a few seconds so that the vapor that has condensed back to oil on the insides of the atty shell between the ceramic cup and the drip tip will drain back down the sides toward the cup/coil/wick. Nothing profound, no torch needed, just a lighter, and only heat the atty a little at the top, just enough to heat the shell enough so that the oil drains back down. If you start to get a wisp of vapor smoke while you're doing this, you're heating the atty shell to much. Takes all of 10 seconds.
After you've vaped another third (so you've vaped two thirds of your 3-4mm load), it pays to have a little tool. You repeat the procedure you did for the first third, melting the oil on the insides of the atty shell back down, and then you take a tool that's shaped like a thick needle with a very rounded (not pointed) end. I use either a 2mm thick SS darning like needle that's 7cm long and has 3cm of cloth gaffer's tape around the end with the hole for the thread, so I don't burn my fingers if I decide to heat up the tool. Or I use a 3mm thick titanium gizmo with about the same dimensions made for this kind of thing. Anyway, once the oil level is low enough so that the top of the cup and coil are visible, it sometimes nice to help the oil that's hanging around on top of the metal mesh surrounding the ceramic core, and the top edges of the ceramic core. We don't generally keep taking hits one after the other for minutes on end, so we never really heat up the ceramic core itself anywhere near hot enough to vaporize oil. That all happens on and within a half mm of the coil (inside the ceramic cup). So when the oil starts to get low, heat up the poker a little and run it around the bottom inside edge of the atty shell. The very blunt and rounded tip of the tool you're using should be sitting on top of the metal surround mesh while you're rotating the atty, so that all the nice oil gets pushed into the ceramic cup and on top of the wick. I've been doing this for weeks and weeks, and I haven't damaged the coil or the core or the wick. And I'm always stoned when I do it. I'm still on my first two Joye atty's as well, and I haven't had any need to clean them either.
Oh, and don't forget to get the condensed oil from inside the drip tip too...
Oh, and when you start a fresh atty, drop a small glob of concentrate on top of the coil, just big enough to cover the coil and wick and the edges of the ceramic cup. Then (without putting the drip tip on), just give one second pulses on the battery every few seconds until the concentrate turns to liquid (oil), and soaks into the new wick and insides of the ceramic cup. If the rising vapor starts to obscure your view of the coil, just blow into the top of the atty to disperse the vapor. Don't be in a rush, give the concentrate time to turn to oil and saturate the wick/coil/cup. You only have to do this once, when the atty is new. And don't try to get greedy and inhale the vape while you're conditioning the wick; you'll burn your mouth. (Don't ask me how I know). Once you've conditioned the virgin wick, put a normal load in. And there's no way you'll "waste" a gram of concentrate "priming" the atty and its mesh. The amount of concentrate "priming" the atty is very very small.
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fernand
Well-Known Member
@Haywood, you are a god among them. Thanks! What I'm envisioning is that somehow the melting and solidifying load is rolling back right onto the altar! So whta you're saying is that while you vape your coil is actually submerged, just like it should be? Wow!
Ok, now I have to decide. What do I risk? Tonight in my drawers of little vape parts, including many boxes of cheap tricks I thought I would love forever, there are two (2) HH357s and one (1) Joye. I may be wrong but the HH357 is not likely a good choice for wax, because it acts as if it had a secret cellar under the coil where juice gathers, making it the king of bottom feeders and drippers. The magic thing about the Joye is that apparently the SS mesh around the coil does not allow oil to penetrate. So I'm CAREFULLY debridging the 3.0 Ohm, that seems built just like my (late) 2.2, 2.4 and 2.6 Ohm Joyes, and I can run it watt enough even on an eGo Twist.
But which wax do I use? If it works well, I don't want crap wax in there, as I only have the one Joye. And if it doesn't, I don't want a great wax wasted, as I don't have much. Not that I doubt anything you said, but there may be some secret variable ... OK, I'm gonna go all out and slap on some of my beloved Sour Diesel Super Melt. It's the only one so far that really melts my sciatica.
BTW, went down to my second favorite dispensary and scored an alleged diesel. Nice buds, sun grown. Didn't smell as strong, I figured try a gram, come back for more. In an unspecified location not far away, a fiend was seen firing up his FireFly. And deciding he's not going back for more. Weak copy of an Original Diesel. Plus a right side head ache, like I often get a touch of with a diesel, but this one offers a real headache. There IS some lower back pain relief, a lot of familiar Diesel signs, so basically it's a weakie, toxic, mini-diesel - like a Beethoven symphony played by an accordion quartet, or basketball by Pigmies: not worth it. OK, my hopes' in thee, little Joye!
Ok, now I have to decide. What do I risk? Tonight in my drawers of little vape parts, including many boxes of cheap tricks I thought I would love forever, there are two (2) HH357s and one (1) Joye. I may be wrong but the HH357 is not likely a good choice for wax, because it acts as if it had a secret cellar under the coil where juice gathers, making it the king of bottom feeders and drippers. The magic thing about the Joye is that apparently the SS mesh around the coil does not allow oil to penetrate. So I'm CAREFULLY debridging the 3.0 Ohm, that seems built just like my (late) 2.2, 2.4 and 2.6 Ohm Joyes, and I can run it watt enough even on an eGo Twist.
But which wax do I use? If it works well, I don't want crap wax in there, as I only have the one Joye. And if it doesn't, I don't want a great wax wasted, as I don't have much. Not that I doubt anything you said, but there may be some secret variable ... OK, I'm gonna go all out and slap on some of my beloved Sour Diesel Super Melt. It's the only one so far that really melts my sciatica.
BTW, went down to my second favorite dispensary and scored an alleged diesel. Nice buds, sun grown. Didn't smell as strong, I figured try a gram, come back for more. In an unspecified location not far away, a fiend was seen firing up his FireFly. And deciding he's not going back for more. Weak copy of an Original Diesel. Plus a right side head ache, like I often get a touch of with a diesel, but this one offers a real headache. There IS some lower back pain relief, a lot of familiar Diesel signs, so basically it's a weakie, toxic, mini-diesel - like a Beethoven symphony played by an accordion quartet, or basketball by Pigmies: not worth it. OK, my hopes' in thee, little Joye!
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Haywood
Onward Thru the Fog
I don't think I'd mess with the HH357's, due to their expense, but if you do, let us all know how it goes. 
I haven't found a concentrate that doesn't work in the Joye 2.2Ω atty's... But keep in mind I'm only using dispensary concentrates. How did the de-bridging surgery on your remaining Joye go?
My two Mini Protank 3's finally arrived this afternoon. I'm testing #1 out now, with 100% VG instead of Pure Gold, until I figure out if it's worth risking a gram or so of Pure Gold. So far, it's working OK with one of the 2.0Ω PT3 dual coil assemblies. No leaks yet and I'm on the second tank fill. Not very great clouds though, especially considering I'm vaping 100% VG. If this works out OK the next few days, I'll switch to one of the 1.5Ω PT3 dual coils, and see if that works OK for 100% VG. If that works, then it's on to Pure Gold. Probably not until I get back from Las Vegas this Sunday. I only have two 1.5Ω coil assemblies and I have five 2.0Ω assemblies so I figured to try the 2.0Ω ones first. I'm hoping the 1.5Ω ones will give me a little more vapor density, or maybe removing the silicon piece that's just above and surrounds the air shaft. Or I can just roll my own coils...
I haven't found a concentrate that doesn't work in the Joye 2.2Ω atty's... But keep in mind I'm only using dispensary concentrates. How did the de-bridging surgery on your remaining Joye go?
My two Mini Protank 3's finally arrived this afternoon. I'm testing #1 out now, with 100% VG instead of Pure Gold, until I figure out if it's worth risking a gram or so of Pure Gold. So far, it's working OK with one of the 2.0Ω PT3 dual coil assemblies. No leaks yet and I'm on the second tank fill. Not very great clouds though, especially considering I'm vaping 100% VG. If this works out OK the next few days, I'll switch to one of the 1.5Ω PT3 dual coils, and see if that works OK for 100% VG. If that works, then it's on to Pure Gold. Probably not until I get back from Las Vegas this Sunday. I only have two 1.5Ω coil assemblies and I have five 2.0Ω assemblies so I figured to try the 2.0Ω ones first. I'm hoping the 1.5Ω ones will give me a little more vapor density, or maybe removing the silicon piece that's just above and surrounds the air shaft. Or I can just roll my own coils...
Haywood
Onward Thru the Fog
Little follow up. So after two full loads (~1.5ml each) of 100% VG, no leaks, no real dry hits, but no monster hits unless I up the voltage to 4.7V (about 10 watts). I just cleaned out the clearo and put some of my daily e-juice in. 70%/30% PG/VG, 16% Nic. Works better at a lower voltage (4V, 7.5 watts) than the 100% VG. I presume this means I will have to increase the flow once I try Pure Gold. I want to see if the much thinner e-juice load will leak first. "Tuning" a clearo for the thickness of the liquid is nothing new though...
215z
Well-Known Member
Nick my Dennis Ross Cruz 1ohm ceramic heating elements arrived from FatDaddyVapes yesterday. The element is 7mm in diameter, and fits flush on top of the Kiss Cart ceramic cup. I imagine I could sand the ceramic down just a touch and it would fit into the cup. But, the holes at the bottom of the cup for the filaments electrodes are more closely spaced, I'm guessing 4.5mm apart. The non-resistance leads attached to the ceramic ring, the "vapin donut legs", are very thick & stiff, and I don't think I can origami this thing to fit. I think I'll be better off with atomizers whose electrodes run on the outside of the ceramic cup, like with the Golden Greek tanks and its clones made by Rainbow Heaven.
lewis6000
New Member
I agree that the pre made hash oil cartridges for 510 thread pens work great but can be expensive after a while. I just ordered some EJ Mix that I plan to mix with a concentrate to make my own THC juice for my pen. Does anyone have experience with EJ Mix? Can you melt and mix any wax, full melt hash, etc with EJ Mix? Does it work better with a certain type of concentrate? I'm looking to make enough THC liquid to keep a couple pens full at a time so I'd like to know the most cost effective way to make my mix.
2clicker
Observer
yes i have experience with it and highly recommend it for making juice. make sure to heat the ejmix before you add the oil. otherwise you will be stirring forever to get all of the oil off the bottom of the beaker and dissolved.
lewis6000
New Member
Hey thanks for your response. Can you mix the EJ Mix with cheaper full melt hash to save money on the concentrate front? If so...how would you do it? Heat the EJ Mix first and then add the solid hash chunk to the pre heated EJ Mix? Can you also mix EJ mix with shatter & crumble?
2clicker
Observer
@lewis6000, as long as it leaves little to no residue when melted then you should be good to go. i make shatter and it works beautifully. i have yet to try a wax. my state isnt legal so i have to make my own. its likely that even if i did have the other options i would usually opt for the shatter.
when you say solid hash chunk are you talkin like bubble hash? i would think that bubble would have solids that would gunk a juice coil quickly. unless of course its truly fully melts. i dont have a lot of experience with bubble sorry.
when you say solid hash chunk are you talkin like bubble hash? i would think that bubble would have solids that would gunk a juice coil quickly. unless of course its truly fully melts. i dont have a lot of experience with bubble sorry.
Quetzalcoatl
DEADY GUERRERO/DIRT COBAIN/GEORGE KUSH
Most all bubble hash has particulate matter, there's the newer "ice wax" which is dabbable but still leaves some residue on nails. @lewis6000 the easiest way to go about getting workable material with bubble hash as a starter is to do an ethanol wash and filter to remove particulates.
lewis6000
New Member
Thats all useful info. Sounds like I should stick to wax and oil when mixing with EJ Mix. And you say I can use EJ mix with shatter as well?
DabComa
Stuck in Dab Coma
I have no experience with ejmix, but a thought maybe on using it with materials not so pure. What if you were to prepare similar to any mix by heating then adding your product then after some time and agitation you could filter it through say a cheesecloth or coffee filter to remove the impurities and maybe the actives will be in the mix? leaving the particulates in the filter medium? Just a thought.
2clicker
Observer
yup. all hash oil really... shatter, wax, crumble, etc...
as long as it melts and does not have the plant matter impurities then it can be mixed with ejmix.
walrus
Well-Known Member
Ejmix works well with any solvent extracts, no matter the consistency. I've used it effectively with wax, crumble, shatter, oil, etc. That said, it performs best with winterized/dewaxed concentrates. There are just less impurities in the mix to gunk up your coil and wick. I've never tried it with bubble, kief, or any concentrates that contain any plant matter but I seriously doubt it would work in that capacity. If that is all you have access to and are set on using ejmix I'd definitely suggest doing an alcohol wash/filter/evap before liquidizing.
lewis6000
New Member
Hey thanks for the reply. This is super helpful! I am by no means interested in dealing with the bubble hash after reading your response and a few others. I'm in Los Angeles so I have access to everything concentrate wise. I'm basically looking for the most cost effective way to make my own THC juice for my pen. I was buying O pen cartridges for a while but they're 30 bucks a pop. So I thought it would be better to buy wax, oils, etc and mix it with a little EJ Mix. What have you found to be the most effective way to make your EJ / Hash oil mix for vaping?
So here's what I think I'm going to do... I'm not 100% pleased/satisfied with the performance of wires as heating elements. I know I probably need to experiment more, but kanthal is just inferior to whatever Thermovape has created with that iron alloy in the Cera. So here's what I want to do.
RBA/3.7v imr aw battery/low resistance/mechanical mod/standard stuf....BUT
I will shape a piece of porous ceramic from my block into a flat cylinder. I will cut the center out of the cylinder from the side so it's like two hamburger buns that are attached on one side. I will take a vapin donut (donut shaped heating wire covered in solid ceramic with glass coated leads, google it) and insert it into the hamburger shaped porous ceramic. Then I just saturate the ceramic with oil and let it rip! The only problem is I can't overload the ceramic with oil or else it will just liquify and drip onto the deck... I wish I could use a ceramic cup but it just wouldn't fit.
This sucker will need to be HOT to vaporize oil well.
I just got a BETTER idea!
Instead of a hamburger shape, how about a disc shape with a small plug in the center that fits directly OVER the vapin donut. the plug in the center will basically make sure it fits in the donut without coming off. Also more heat transfer to the porous ceramic.
RBA/3.7v imr aw battery/low resistance/mechanical mod/standard stuf....BUT
I will shape a piece of porous ceramic from my block into a flat cylinder. I will cut the center out of the cylinder from the side so it's like two hamburger buns that are attached on one side. I will take a vapin donut (donut shaped heating wire covered in solid ceramic with glass coated leads, google it) and insert it into the hamburger shaped porous ceramic. Then I just saturate the ceramic with oil and let it rip! The only problem is I can't overload the ceramic with oil or else it will just liquify and drip onto the deck... I wish I could use a ceramic cup but it just wouldn't fit.
This sucker will need to be HOT to vaporize oil well.
I just got a BETTER idea!
Instead of a hamburger shape, how about a disc shape with a small plug in the center that fits directly OVER the vapin donut. the plug in the center will basically make sure it fits in the donut without coming off. Also more heat transfer to the porous ceramic.
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2clicker
Observer
what is it about kanthal that you dont like? that stuff works great for me.
Flavor is just not represented accurately. I probably need to try different gauges and experiment like I said. One benefit of the vapin donut is that it should last longer than a wire and the whole thing can be self cleaned pretty easily.
2clicker
Observer
you are using a vapin donut for solids? its not porous... how does that work out for you? i would imagine it would just heat up and melt off of it.
vapin donuts look cool, but i like the idea of using readily available materials. i use 3mm braided ceramic wick and 32 gauge kanthal. taste is very good IMO, but im am always looking for better.
vapin donuts look cool, but i like the idea of using readily available materials. i use 3mm braided ceramic wick and 32 gauge kanthal. taste is very good IMO, but im am always looking for better.
fernand
Well-Known Member
I can well see this on large quantities, but I imagine a lot of us be looking to add a few drops of EJ Mix, just a tiny bit, to say half a gram of Butane Extract, i.e. wax/oil/shatter/melt, to gently break down its viscosity and make it wick.
But not trying to stir in some oil from the bottom of a beaker of glycol mix!
All of this solubilizing stuff so far has tasted FOUL! The O-Pen-Vape people know what they're up against, and the truth be known, although I haven't tried EJ Mix, what O-Pen Vapes uses tastes at most tolerable. There are a lot of glycols to choose from, and the reason Propylene Glycol is so popular with e-cigs, is that it's probably the most palatable of the bunch, and (even so) I don't think much of PG, being an all glycerine vaper on the nicotine side, I think PG tastes a tad industrial. I've gone through a few other glycols to test, of course avoiding that one toxic one, Diethylene Glycol (may the folks who got that Chinese toothpaste rest in peace), and from PG it was downhill all the way - blechhh.
And of course you can't really add an oil base as a thinner if you're aiming for boiling and vaporization. I mean here's a basic issue. Imagine it's Olive oil instead of Hemp. Vaping olive oil is a bitch. So is it only by their ambiguous polar-nonpolar nature that the substances of interest can be vaped?
BTW there are e-cig people working with whole tobacco extracts, as opposed to the pure nicotine.
Can someone kindly honestly report on the taste of pure EJ Mix?
maybe a sketch would help present the idea to the assembled, Brother Nick.
But how about creating a little funnel that feeds the heater?
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