Advanced E-cig users and oil/wax, how-to "one-hitter-quitter"

[fernand]

Looks like most of the rebuildables are the diameter of a Provari, not an eGo.

Those little ego-based pens have been disappointing, they are built on the assumption that oil will wick like e-liquid, and it doesn't. And the little coils burn the oil/wax. If you preload one of those "skillets" with a fat dab, you can get one righteous choking hit before it melts and goes to the bottom, while the rest starts burning on the wick.

There those oil specific atomizers, what are they called, that apparently work for one cartridge-full.

 

[beatdigger]

You can fix those smaller pen style attys if you get wick and wire, you can rebuild it, but it may be difficult prolonged and frustrating, and with a small stock battery you'll only be able to use 32 g or smaller, which is why I went slightly bigger, much more satisfying.

I have taken apart the atomizers many times after they fail. I am convinced the attys I am using are NOT rebuildable. The insulated lead is soldered to the little plug and also it is glued to the ceramic base making it impossible to pull out.

I have a source that sells em for $4 each but still I'm going broke.

 

[2clicker]

Looks like most of the rebuildables are the diameter of a Provari, not an eGo.

Those little ego-based pens have been disappointing, they are built on the assumption that oil will wick like e-liquid, and it doesn't. And the little coils burn the oil/wax. If you preload one of those "skillets" with a fat dab, you can get one righteous choking hit before it melts and goes to the bottom, while the rest starts burning on the wick.

There those oil specific atomizers, what are they called, that apparently work for one cartridge-full.

there are some RDAs that are eGo diameter. the IGO-F comes to mind. i would imagine with a coil of 1.5ohms or higher that an eGo wiuld push this coil just fine. i was originally going to get something slim like this for the same reason you do. but when i got my IGO-L (quarter size) i noticed that anything smaller would be a real PITA to work on. i find the IGO-L to be a pain already... i cant imagine trying to build with anything smaller. i have found that the 20-22mm sized attys are slim enough IMO.

i also wanted to say that since switching to kanthal my hits taste much less metallic. i plan on going to ceramic wick very soon and hope that it eliminates it almost completely. my new kanthal coil gives me performance just like @DabComa describes. coil is reading at 1.47ohms. gives me 3-5 seconds of vapor (NOT SMOKE! stop saying that yall!) before the coil begins to glow. the hits are also much less harsh on my throat. now the decision is wether to go braided ceramic or rigid porous ceramic... @DabComa any input here?

what i am ultimately looking for is BHOLT atty performance (tastes VERY good), but with rebuildable capabilities. i am close, but not quite there yet.

really liking rebuilding coils myself. fun stuff. time to start experimenting with twisting kanthal next.

 

[BKVape]

Home-brewed dewaxed in the rba, definitely notice improved performance with cleaner/better extracts

Hey Folks, first post ...

Just built one like this ... but I don't know how to post the pic. Help or nah for the noob? Basically an IGO-W with dual coil flat ribbon and ss mesh. Seems to work best of all my builds to date. It clears the well of wax and shatter.

 

[fernand]

Ah, you arts & craftsy guys! There's a lot o' shit I am happy building and tearing up and redesigning, but somehow the coil isn't calling me yet. So my objective is to get there expediently. Adapting a ready-made something.

I know there are very few good hand-made atomizers, but Hanna's HH357 is a royal atomizer for dripping or bottom feed with e-liquid. And I just realized I went through 2 liters of glycerin makin' my Macaroon 8 mg all VG juice. But that's vaping VG. Not concentrate. Too bad there's nothing out there ready-made for the purpose. I'm looking ...

I got this $15 set to examine. It's the sorriest least-materials peice of crap I've seen in a long time. For $15 shipped you get a supposedly 650 mAh eGo style battery, and a sort of polyethylene tank with not a 510 plug but this simplified least materials one that only fits an eGo battery. OK. And there's a cap to make it look like a fountan pen. Like Chinese Gentlemen use $5 vapes. BUT BUT there's a very useful ceramic cup in there. If you cut off the wicks, you have a nice and tight little ceramic bowl that you can fill with concentrate, with a heating element in the middle. What happens next has been disputed. Some say vape. Some say smoke. Whatever it is it's 1) harsh and thick. 2) Effective. One toke kills all.

So you're winding wire coils. Have you tried ribbon? Why not torch the kanthal ribbon to oxidize an insulation layer, and wind a contiguous windings flattened coil, like a little heli-pad, and use it like a nail?

Hey Folks, first post ...
Just built one like this ... but I don't know how to post the pic. Help or nah for the noob? Basically an IGO-W with dual coil flat ribbon and ss mesh. Seems to work best of all my builds to date. It clears the well of wax and shatter.

Welcome, dude! What do you mean "it clears the well"? Do you mean it heats it up enough to vape the drippings? Does it wick it? That's EXCITING!

To post a pic, upload to one of the free image storage services. There obtain a link to the image, then come here and use the little image tool in the toolbar while you edit. It will prompt you for the address of the image which you will be holding in your clipboard in the meantime.

 

[BKVape]

Thanks fernand. (This photo upload method doesn't seem as "cool" as some I've seen here, so feel free to recommend the better options maybe. Thanks.)

Still looking for the most effective, portable and stealthy vape options for concentrates. This build seems to work best for me so far. As I said, it seems to "clear the well", meaning that it usually gets most of the goodness by tilting the mod a bit when pulsing.

 

[DabComa]

If you could get a Ribbon wire to wind in that fashion and stay wound, tightly, that may be a good wickless design, but placement would be an issue without post modification, ideally you would want that wind as close to the deck as possible, because without wick it can't hold the heated viscous material that thanks to our friend gravity, would make it go to the lowest point. But good idea none the less, I attempted it with round wire and got( lets call it a swirl) tightly wrapped about the diameter of a dime at the largest circle. Element heated great, didn't wait to see how long it would take to glow, but it definitely made good heat, just never made it to test phase because of dimensional issues. Same issues I have getting any of these small ceramic dishes into my igo-w, it just won't fit, no matter how I modify the ceramic, if I take the stem off the cup, it still doesn't fit, and I've tried wrapping the ceramic stem, but when that's dry burned it blackens fast, so I figured it was no good, so never tried it.

Silica is the only thing I've had available to use as wick material otherwise, and as long as your not trying to cook every last drop of concentrate out of it, it performs pretty well. I would like to get some sort of ceramic wicking material, but my current monetary situation allows me more time to investigate rather then purchase, so I'm browsing around and taking in peoples suggestions until I can afford something more to thoroughly test.

 

[BKVape]

If you could get a Ribbon wire to wind in that fashion and stay wound, tightly, that may be a good wickless design, but placement would be an issue without post modification, ideally you would want that wind as close to the deck as possible, because without wick it can't hold the heated viscous material that thanks to our friend gravity, would make it go to the lowest point. But good idea none the less, I attempted it with round wire and got( lets call it a swirl) tightly wrapped about the diameter of a dime at the largest circle. Element heated great, didn't wait to see how long it would take to glow, but it definitely made good heat, just never made it to test phase because of dimensional issues. Same issues I have getting any of these small ceramic dishes into my igo-w, it just won't fit, no matter how I modify the ceramic, if I take the stem off the cup, it still doesn't fit, and I've tried wrapping the ceramic stem, but when that's dry burned it blackens fast, so I figured it was no good, so never tried it.

Silica is the only thing I've had available to use as wick material otherwise, and as long as your not trying to cook every last drop of concentrate out of it, it performs pretty well. I would like to get some sort of ceramic wicking material, but my current monetary situation allows me more time to investigate rather then purchase, so I'm browsing around and taking in peoples suggestions until I can afford something more to thoroughly test.

I used a 1.8mm screwdriver for the coil wraps and cut strips of ss mesh to fit the IGO-W dish. It's pretty close to the deck actually, nothing spared under ... Around the perimeter of the dish is the only place it collects, until tilting ... THEN THERE'S NO ESCAPE'N THE VAPE'N!!!! (eh em.)

Right, so ... I've been using silica wick but I feel like there's too much wasted and the silica makes "clean" loads difficult after a few loads. I figure there's less "wicking" happening with the wax and shatter and the silica seems to lose it's effectiveness after the first few GREAT hits.

I ordered some 1/8 ceramic wick when I got the mesh but it is $13 for 3 very fragile looking pcs that I'm nervous to try because I'd have to snap (or cut? dremel?) to fit.

For my first few builds I used round wire but quickly switched to ribbon figuring that the flat surfaces would give more of the "skillet" effect especially when wound closer together ... Add the ss mesh to that and I hope to get even better results. So far, so good.

 

[2clicker]

i think your efforts will be futile if you are trying to eliminate oil getting on the deck. in fact ive noticed that the vapor itself condenses on everything inside the atty. its on the deck, walls, posts, and ceiling of the cap. a nice golden amber layer of oil collecting. i just scrap it up and reuse.

what i have discovered is that with my SS wick, that after i load the coil up with fresh oil i then just tap on the button (very quick taps) just enough to heat and melt the oil into the wick. at this point it almost appears as if there is no oil at all on/in it. i never get any oil dripping off the coil/wick, but the vapor condensation still occurs so everything will get coated regardless.

i think i am going to try the rigid porous ceramic wick and then the braided ceramic after that. i like the idea of being able to torch porous ceramic. can the braided ceramic wick be torched clean?

 

[BKVape]

i think your efforts will be futile if you are trying to eliminate oil getting on the deck. in fact ive noticed that the vapor itself condenses on everything inside the atty. its on the deck, walls, posts, and ceiling of the cap. a nice golden amber layer of oil collecting. i just scrap it up and reuse.

what i have discovered is that with my SS wick, that after i load the coil up with fresh oil i then just tap on the button (very quick taps) just enough to heat and melt the oil into the wick. at this point it almost appears as if there is no oil at all on/in it. i never get any oil dripping off the coil/wick, but the vapor condensation still occurs so everything will get coated regardless.

i think i am going to try the rigid porous ceramic wick and then the braided ceramic after that. i like the idea of being able to torch porous ceramic. can the braided ceramic wick be torched clean?

2clicks ... I'm not sure if this was in response to me but I'm not expecting to "vape" everything, just more efficiently ... Like the ss wick clearly collects and "hides" some of the contents which ends up being waste. I also "recycle" anything salvageable that isn't caught up in the gunky wick until it has to be replaced.

I didn't mention the oil usage as the real issue is the more solid concentrates. Oil on the other hand works lovely on ss wick, imo ... UNTIL you've loaded up a few times. If you stay with oil, no problem ... add a shatter, no problem ... BUT once you start with the wax you'll eventually notice the wick getting more difficult to handle, along with the taste not being as "clean".

If I'm using oils ONLY I'd want a tank set up for portability ... that seems to work very well with the thinner oils which are harder, and more expensive, to find. The thicker oil, that I find everywhere, has not worked successfully for me in tanks, either viscosity issues or just too damn difficult to transfer and I end up wasting much of the oil. Then I just end up putting as much as I can save into the RBA and leave no witnesses.

 

[walrus]

@2clicker Yes, the xc-116 can be torched or dry burned back to bright white and clean.

 

[2clicker]

2clicks ... I'm not sure if this was in response to me but I'm not expecting to "vape" everything, just more efficiently ... Like the ss wick clearly collects and "hides" some of the contents which ends up being waste. I also "recycle" anything salvageable that isn't caught up in the gunky wick until it has to be replaced.

I didn't mention the oil usage as the real issue is the more solid concentrates. Oil on the other hand works lovely on ss wick, imo ... UNTIL you've loaded up a few times. If you stay with oil, no problem ... add a shatter, no problem ... BUT once you start with the wax you'll eventually notice the wick getting more difficult to handle, along with the taste not being as "clean".

If I'm using oils ONLY I'd want a tank set up for portability ... that seems to work very well with the thinner oils which are harder, and more expensive, to find. The thicker oil, that I find everywhere, has not worked successfully for me in tanks, either viscosity issues or just too damn difficult to transfer and I end up wasting much of the oil. Then I just end up putting as much as I can save into the RBA and leave no witnesses.

not a response to you directly. just flowing with the conversation.

and when i say oil i mean all concentrates. waxes are oils also. the term wax just refers to the consistency/viscosity of the oil. wax, crumble, shatter, etc... all oils.

i liquify my oil for use in tanks (ejmix) but for the attys/coils we are discussing in here, i use for all stable oils. i only really deal with shatter tho because i prefer it over any other consistency. so that is all i make. my state is t legal so i dont have tons of options like others do.

oh and im pretty sure that my SS mesh coil does not hide anything after enough heat is applied.

@2clicker Yes, the xc-116 can be torched or dry burned back to bright white and clean.

thanks @walrus!

 

[fernand]

I don't know for sure, but suspect that a decent wax/shatter/oil can vaporize with practically no residue. Then what we're seeing gunk up the wicks is probably burned material. That would explain the degrading taste etc. So (tanks and ejmix'ed oils aside) I doubt the wick is much help except to temporarily hold a dab (and then caramelize some of it).

So instead of a wick, how about building a flat surface like flattening BKVape's coils, heating it up and only then bringing a dab in contact with it from above, a lot like a nail, by lowering an element. Sort of like nookes consist of two pieces that are brought together to reach critical mass ;-).

 

[DabComa]

After your first post mentioning that I started to imagine some sort of apparatus in the lid of the device would be perfect, so you put the device on an "arm" that holds a dab in the lid, heat your coil, cap, and hang on!

.... Anyways to the reason for my post, I finally got my hands on SS mesh, I have no idea what kind or micron, but I got it, and even tested a run with it and it works great. Ive only used silica for my ecig and conc attys, and I don't think I'll be going back. Now running kanthal and SS mesh I get better "1 hitter" results, I've packed it about 3 times now and hit it about 8 and it's still going good, it didn't need more I just like to drown a new coil. Definitely distrubutes heat well. I'm still running my 1.33 coil, abd the performance is slightly accelerated from silica, I doubt the .4 drop played that large of a role. I also built SS mesh into my Kayfun, yes my Kayfun, and it works better then any silica build so far. Overall im very satisfied with SS, and probably won't use silica again, but time will tell, haven't ran either build 24 hours yet, but they'll get a damn good break in until I pass out...

@beatdigger yeah if they've gone through the trouble (or necessity) to solder the middle positive pin then unless you have a solder gun and a lot of time and patience on your hands you won't be able to rebuild them, but sometimes they can be rewicked still. Not all are soldered or designed that way so look around at different suppliers to see who has the rubber gasket designed ones, the only ones that I've successfully modified, ecig or conc.

 

[Haywood]

@2clicker @walrus

If you're into micro coils, you might want to check out some of the XC-132, which is half the thickness of the XC-116, and fits nicely into a coil wound on a 1/16" form (drill bit or screwdriver shaft, etc.).

(btw, if you're gonna play with the ceramic woven insulation sleeves, make sure when you buy XC-116 or XC-132 you get stuff that's been properly kiln fired for 12 hours or so, and then consider boiling it for an hour after you get it).

I just ordered some XC-116 and XC-132 to play with. I'm very impressed with what I've read about the stuff so far. Check out RBASupplies (they call their XC stuff "READYxWICK") and SNGVapor. Both carry both thicknesses, both pre-treat it according to the manufacturers (3M) specifications (the kiln stuff), but currently one is out of the thin stuff and the other is out of the thick stuff.

 

[walrus]

@2clicker @walrus

If you're into micro coils, you might want to check out some of the XC-132, which is half the thickness of the XC-116, and fits nicely into a coil wound on a 1/16" form (drill bit or screwdriver shaft, etc.).

(btw, if you're gonna play with the ceramic woven insulation sleeves, make sure when you buy XC-116 or XC-132 you get stuff that's been properly kiln fired for 12 hours or so, and then consider boiling it for an hour after you get it).

I just ordered some XC-116 and XC-132 to play with. I'm very impressed with what I've read about the stuff so far. Check out RBASupplies (they call their XC stuff "READYxWICK") and SNGVapor. Both carry both thicknesses, both pre-treat it according to the manufacturers (3M) specifications (the kiln stuff), but currently one is out of the thin stuff and the other is out of the thick stuff.

Although both of the above mentioned vendors kiln treat their ceramic wicks to 3m's specs, I much prefer the stuff from rba supplies. They state that they heat treat the product to a higher temp for a longer time than other distributors, and the differences are apparent to me. The rba supplies stuff is much easier to work with as the ends do not splay apart when cut. My first order of xc116 was from the other vendor that claimed heat treating but the product would fray out badly when cut. If doing only a short wick, it would fall apart entirely.

Perhaps sng has upgraded their process since I ordered but the pics on their site show tape on the ends of the wick to prevent fraying. The rba supp stuff doesn't come with taped ends and doesn't need to as their product doesn't open up at all at the ends.

I am looking forward to trying the xc132 with my next order.

 

[2clicker]

@2clicker @walrus

If you're into micro coils, you might want to check out some of the XC-132, which is half the thickness of the XC-116, and fits nicely into a coil wound on a 1/16" form (drill bit or screwdriver shaft, etc.).

(btw, if you're gonna play with the ceramic woven insulation sleeves, make sure when you buy XC-116 or XC-132 you get stuff that's been properly kiln fired for 12 hours or so, and then consider boiling it for an hour after you get it).

I just ordered some XC-116 and XC-132 to play with. I'm very impressed with what I've read about the stuff so far. Check out RBASupplies (they call their XC stuff "READYxWICK") and SNGVapor. Both carry both thicknesses, both pre-treat it according to the manufacturers (3M) specifications (the kiln stuff), but currently one is out of the thin stuff and the other is out of the thick stuff.

i dont think a micro coil will work for me. maybe for liquid, but not for solids. i would prefer a larger surface area for the dab to sit on.

starting to think the rigid porous ceramic is the way to go.

 

[DabComa]

So one of my batteries decided to full on meltdown in my coat pocket 2 hours off the charger, never got hot nor swelled and was the only object in my pocket, no metal inside at all. Just began hissing out, most likely toxic gases in two phases, the second much more extreme, and got hotter then hell, luckily I hadn't had it in my pants pocket or it could have been REAL BAD, it melted out of my coat pocket, into my lap then out the car door it went.

Lesson learned for me, don't use shitty no name batteries from the smoke shop that come with the mod. They were Imr but not aw and I don't run below 1 ohm

 

[2clicker]

So one of my batteries decided to full on meltdown in my coat pocket 2 hours off the charger, never got hot nor swelled and was the only object in my pocket, no metal inside at all. Just began hissing out, most likely toxic gases in two phases, the second much more extreme, and got hotter then hell, luckily I hadn't had it in my pants pocket or it could have been REAL BAD, it melted out of my coat pocket, into my lap then out the car door it went.

Lesson learned for me, don't use shitty no name batteries from the smoke shop that come with the mod. They were Imr but not aw and I don't run below 1 ohm

holy shit!

 

[Haywood]

Although both of the above mentioned vendors kiln treat their ceramic wicks to 3m's specs, I much prefer the stuff from rba supplies. They state that they heat treat the product to a higher temp for a longer time than other distributors, and the differences are apparent to me. The rba supplies stuff is much easier to work with as the ends do not splay apart when cut. My first order of xc116 was from the other vendor that claimed heat treating but the product would fray out badly when cut. If doing only a short wick, it would fall apart entirely.

Perhaps sng has upgraded their process since I ordered but the pics on their site show tape on the ends of the wick to prevent fraying. The rba supp stuff doesn't come with taped ends and doesn't need to as their product doesn't open up at all at the ends.

I am looking forward to trying the xc132 with my next order.

Thanks for the info, I'll let you know what the story is these days, as I ordered the XC-116 from RBA and the XC-132 from SnG. (Neither had both thicknesses). Still tracking the slooowwww process of getting the Mini ProTank III's from China; the ceramic wicks are really for them.

 

[2clicker]

Thanks for the info, I'll let you know what the story is these days, as I ordered the XC-116 from RBA and the XC-132 from SnG. (Neither had both thicknesses). Still tracking the slooowwww process of getting the Mini ProTank III's from China; the ceramic wicks are really for them.

i am very interested with the performance of your PT3s... specifically if they leak. i am told that kanger tanks arent supposed to be screwed onto the mod completely. that you are supposed to stop as soon as you feel the coil contact touch the mods center pin. this leaves the tank a little loose, but supposedly will cure kanger leakage.

 

[MTBerVAPEer]

Exactly what he said above.... As I stated in a previous post you must have 32 or smaller (34, 36, etc etc) to fit through the holes in the ceramic bowl, and the positive line... Since it runs the same route and touches the same housing as the negative line must be insulated with either the provided tube or electrical tape or it will just short and the current will totally skip the coil. This is why I say it's harder to build then an RBA which is meant to be rebuilt with ease.

Of course if one were to find insulating the positive too difficult one could cheat by sending the positive lead through the center airhole, but this may result in a less structurally sound build.

Not to hate on your post, but you dont need 32awg or up at least for the ceramic cups i use. I will post a rebuild video once im home. I use 28awg with 400stainless steel mesh. in the type b atomizer ot im my rdas i convert for oil use



What i really wanna make is a dab pen that doesnt require constant reloading and its very effective

 

[MTBerVAPEer]

i am very interested with the performance of your PT3s... specifically if they leak. i am told that kanger tanks arent supposed to be screwed onto the mod completely. that you are supposed to stop as soon as you feel the coil contact touch the mods center pin. this leaves the tank a little loose, but supposedly will cure kanger leakage.

Ive never heard that. If it floods take it off blow through it from the bottom onto a napkin.

Or on the actually PT replaceable head that little white clearish cap use a second one and put it back together.

I learned this from youtube this ladies channel called vapor lady lounge i believe

Couldnt find the link but hope my short procedure helps

 

[2clicker]

Ive never heard that. If it floods take it off blow through it from the bottom onto a napkin.

Or on the actually PT replaceable head that little white clearish cap use a second one and put it back together.

I learned this from youtube this ladies channel called vapor lady lounge i believe

Couldnt find the link but hope my short procedure helps

i would try blowing through it, but the juice i vape is precious. i would hate to lose a drop.

i have tried doubling up on the little seal/cups. works ok for full size PTs, but blocks the liquid from getting to the coil on the minis.

 

[fernand]

So one of my batteries decided to full on meltdown in my coat pocket ...
Lesson learned for me, don't use shitty no name batteries from the smoke shop that come with the mod. They were Imr but not aw and I don't run below 1 ohm

What, pray tell, was the "branding" - he asked, eyeing the 6 newly purchased 2000 mAh Efest IMR18650 cells on his desk ...

I just discovered that my FireFart Chinese charger has a 3.2 v setting (as well). And that setting charges to about 3.88 volts, which supposedly would be a FAR better way to go, longer life, maybe fewer embarrassing detonations and 3rd degree burns. Seems the military always undercharge their LiPos that way, and recharge sooner of course, with a much much longer life as reward.

[later] Yeah, but then when I go to recharge often, put a sagging battery on the charger, as per the IMR protocol, on the 3.2v setting it doesn't even kick the light red! So it thinks THAT's good enough??? OK, back to the drawing board.

I can't help but note how many of us are looking for a pocketable, zero attention, just vape it electronic pen solution. I got two O-Pen-Vape 250mg 510 threaded eGo compatible clearomizers, a Master Kush and a Space Queen. The strains' effects were recognizable, but the taste was industrial waste with stems. So I bitched at the dispensary, and they gave me different ones (An OG Kush and an Ogre). These are just great! I can taste the PG but it's quite tolerable, and the overall taste is OK. While these are not my favorite strains , this is a 100% proof of concept.

If you have access to these, they solve a lot of problems. It's really quite a potent solution too. Not quite a one toke quitter, but a couple of deep drags, and I'm good. In addition, the apparatus (an eGo battery with an innocuous clearomizer) and the vapor are so easy to mask, conceal, more so than a wax pen's. Just don't lose hope if you get a bad-tasting one.

It's not clear what atomizer mechanism they use, it's not visible. Dissection will have to wait until I finish a cart. The liquid is way more viscous than pure VG, but slowly flows at room temp.

After your first post mentioning that I started to imagine some sort of apparatus in the lid of the device would be perfect, so you put the device on an "arm" that holds a dab in the lid, heat your coil, cap, and hang on!

Before I had all the requisite adapters, before my wife suggested I needed some sort of cabinet, I had a platform type quartz nail and no dome. Doh. By putting the dab on a pad in the underside of my 18mm female bowl I could heat the nail, then slip the bowl onto the 18mm male, and bingo, dab on hot quartz. We could try something like that with a large surface flat coil a-glowin' ?