Advanced E-cig users and oil/wax, how-to "one-hitter-quitter"

[smatchimo55]

@Lo the people in this thead seem to believe sub ohm with a 18350 is not safe http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/new-members-forum/492638-18350-sub-ohm-4.html

I am going to have to do some more research.

I believe the AW 18350 is the only one people reccomend to get down to .7 or so ohms, which should be ok. then again its obviously never good to push the envelope when dealing with powering a device. But I do see plenty of people sub ohming with 18530, just not anything past .5

 

[smatchimo55]

1
what effects the ohms rating? is it number of wraps, size of wraps, etc?

2
i noticed the nichrome can fail and actually melt apart if it is not firing from the center. should i be using kanthal instead? is kanthal more durable to dry firing?

3
how tight should the coil be around the wick? the coil i have working now (2nd one at .54ohms) is fairly tight around the SS mesh rolled up wick.

4
how should i season or prepare the wick before using? ive seen lots of stuff on the subject, but what are you all using?

5
by the way i was able to get some pretty gnarly rips from the .54 coil im running now. taste was good, but could def taste a metal taste of some sort. i would love to eliminate that.

1. Number of wraps / length of wire total used for coil. Also how tightly the coil is wrapped, not around the wick but how close the coils are together will effect your overall ohmage a bit.


2. It does not do this normally. you are getting red hot leads because you are shorting out. I would guess that the rear wires were not trimmed and are in contact with your deck or top cap. this creates a shorter path of resistance which. you have to be extra sure not to let the coil touch anything but the centerpost holes, and be right up snug next to them. any long "legs" will glow before the coil and be a "hotspot" which gives a burning taste the next user is talking about. it is a misconception that red hot is good. you are looking for a certain temp, 900F if im not mistaken.

3. tight enough to hold it in, loose enough to slide. pulse fire (tap fire button on and off till it starts to glow slowly) your coils before just holding them down, your wick will almost always short at first when using SS mesh. the resistance finds its way through the mesh threads and shorts itself out and pops and melts wires.


4. you can torch it if you feel like it, I just pulse/dry burn in until I am sure I get absolutely no hotspots.

5. That taste will be cut down when you figure out why your leads are glowing before the rest of the coil. sometimes I get a somehwat metallic taste after my wick drys up and the thing glows red hot.


INHALING AIR PASSING OVER RED HOT COILS IS NO BUENO, BTW. I know everyone freaks out about brass fumes but thats not the only metal that gives up toxic fumes at high heat.

So is that the issue, the small hot cross-sections, and why they tend to burn the melted liquid at the boundary of the wire, while an even temp on Ti or glass explosively boils it off on the flat surface? This would suggest that maybe rather than a coil we might prefer a fine screen as a heater, like on the Mau Deeb?

Yea its minor atomize-ation as compared to straight vaporization, thinning it out through a porous material I think would even work better than a flat surface; I think thats why poeple have the misconception about redhot TI nails, and why your coils dont have to glow while in contact with the has to get the necessary heat.

 

[fernand]

Yo, @smatchimo55 ! Ok, you said it. 900 degrees F. So, you're aiming for nail type temps. But in that case isn't the best flash vaporization going to come from dripping onto a damned hot surface, like a ribbon wire arranged so as to create a contiguous surface? I'm wondering if the whole wick concept from the e-cig world isn't entirely wrong. What seems to make the nail so good is that there is no time or opportunity for burning, but if there are cooler wick areas on the coil, it's more likely to combust at the boundary? See what I'm wondering?

And if we just want straight vaporization and the temp can be controlled, I can vape everything I want out of some wax at around 400 deg F. That's a very different way from flash vaporizing. So is the One Hitter Quitter project a flash vape or a simmer vape project?

And we've never had temp control on e-cigs, but it's definitely a simmer vape. Yet the coils will dry burn red hot if the e-liquid stops coming. It's another one of those miraculous equilibria. I'm a heavy e-cig vaper, and I can regulate that atomizer in my sleep.

 

[smatchimo55]

yes when I first got my mech mod it was set up for vaping e juice and i thought I'd be able to throw a dab on top and do it like that, silica and all, not even cotton. the wax gets gunked up so quick its not even funny, because it doesnt wick hardly at all, but also because its not hot enough, which is what we are trying to achieve here. the first few pages the guys are using SS rope as the wick, and i might be inclined to try a short piece of that. perhaps wrap some of that in ss mesh then do a coil. there is a lot of experimentation needed to be done.

If someone had lazer temperature gauge so we can start figuring out what temps we are reaching, i think this could be a lot more efficient than the guess and check.

people in this thread have long since dreamed of a nice drip delivery method by means of funnel or what have you, but i dont think there is enough space in these to accomplish it. but then again, when someone figures it out, itll appear obvious

 

[fernand]

I've been hesitating to buy an IR unit, they aren't very expensive, but it's kind of a one trick pony, and there must be all sorts of ways to misread them, if someone's coming up with 100 deg F on a hot nail. A K-thermocouple that can safely touch a red hot Ti nail is another possibility. But don't we kind of know that if it's glowing, it's over 1000 deg F and it's white at 2000?

The whole e-cig thing is that the coil never should glow, it's kept cool by the e-liquid as it wicks. If it glows it's burning stuff and can be decomposing glycerin. So if we want flash vaporization of oil it's something we never want in the e-cig world. We do want a feed mechanism, but it's unlikely it can be a wick, since any wick is a heat drain. And it's a slow feed at best, opposite of a drip/dab, and slowly heated oil is more likely to burn in spots?

 

[smatchimo55]

I've been hesitating to buy an IR unit, they aren't very expensive, but it's kind of a one trick pony, and there must be all sorts of ways to misread them, if someone's coming up with 100 deg F on a hot nail. A K-thermocouple that can safely touch a red hot Ti nail is another possibility. But don't we kind of know that if it's glowing, it's over 1000 deg F and it's white at 2000?

The whole e-cig thing is that the coil never should glow, it's kept cool by the e-liquid as it wicks. If it glows it's burning stuff and can be decomposing glycerin. So if we want flash vaporization of oil it's something we never want in the e-cig world. We do want a feed mechanism, but it's unlikely it can be a wick, since any wick is a heat drain. And it's a slow feed at best, opposite of a drip/dab, and slowly heated oil is more likely to burn in spots?

I just remembered the another justification for wanting it at 900F that i didnt mention. While going way over to glowing hot and 1000+ like you said will work, you are killing off flavor turpines. so heating up TI nails to pretty much just under glowing, or an approx 900f you are getting the best flavor and activation for THC, supposedly. I am in no way a TI nail expert at all there are many other people in the other forums here that are better suited for recommending best temps I'm sure

I think for anyone here, anything that gets even close is great, because its instant and portable.

And I wouldnt say slowly heated oil burns in spots, you can vape at temps as low as 300, but is better at higher temps because it just needs to be all consumed at one time so it doesnt have a chance turn into a resin. These are problems I STILL run into when I try to pack more than I should be though, no matter how hot the coil.

 

[2clicker]

so a glowing red coil is too hot and will give off toxic fumes if inhaled? this goes for kanthal yes?

i think i will start making coils around 1.5-2 and just have to wait a sec longer to produce vapor. i really dont want be inhaling toxic fumes.

also i think i will be going for a ceramic wick instead of SS. its gotta taste better yeah?

 

[walrus]

so a glowing red coil is too hot and will give off toxic fumes if inhaled? this goes for kanthal yes?

i think i will start making coils around 1.5-2 and just have to wait a sec longer to produce vapor. i really dont want be inhaling toxic fumes.

also i think i will be going for a ceramic wick instead of SS. its gotta taste better yeah?

Even a 2 ohm coil will glow when dry fired but once loaded up with concentrate even my lowest resistance builds won't light up.

I posted about it a while back but I prefer my xc-116 braided ceramic wick to ss mesh. No shorts, unbelievably clean flavor, simple to work with, can be dry burned/torched clean. Ill try to get some pics up the next time I tear down and rebuild.

http://www.rbasupplies.com/xc-116.html

 

[smatchimo55]

so a glowing red coil is too hot and will give off toxic fumes if inhaled? this goes for kanthal yes?

i think i will start making coils around 1.5-2 and just have to wait a sec longer to produce vapor. i really dont want be inhaling toxic fumes.

also i think i will be going for a ceramic wick instead of SS. its gotta taste better yeah?

Sorry I didnt mean to scare anyone, I should explain that there are traces of aluminium in kanthal, nickel and chromium in nichrome and stainless steel, or copper in brass connectors. All can be considered bad but the temperatures needed to get harmful gas is not known by me. what I do know is bad is the effect of hot-ass air on the trachea and lungs and even the tongue lol.

 

[2clicker]

Even a 2 ohm coil will glow when dry fired but once loaded up with concentrate even my lowest resistance builds won't light up.

I posted about it a while back but I prefer my xc-116 braided ceramic wick to ss mesh. No shorts, unbelievably clean flavor, simple to work with, can be dry burned/torched clean. Ill try to get some pics up the next time I tear down and rebuild.

http://www.rbasupplies.com/xc-116.html

thanks for the link! ill check out the braided ceramic stuff.

Sorry I didnt mean to scare anyone, I should explain that there are traces of aluminium in kanthal, nickel and chromium in nichrome and stainless steel, or copper in brass connectors. All can be considered bad but the temperatures needed to get harmful gas is not known by me. what I do know is bad is the effect of hot-ass air on the trachea and lungs and even the tongue lol.

yeah i gotcha. i have found this coil to be pretty harsh. i still think i will try a higher ohm coil to help in that regard. it should give me more time before getting too hot right?

 

[smatchimo55]

thanks for the link! ill check out the braided ceramic stuff.



yeah i gotcha. i have found this coil to be pretty harsh. i still think i will try a higher ohm coil to help in that regard. it should give me more time before getting too hot right?

exactly. i think there is a write up somewhere in here on ohms / seconds to get to heat but id make a quick stab at .5 ohms for a half second heat up time and 1-1.2 ohms for 3-4 seconds, 2 ohms for 8 seconds.

im sure these numbers are DEADLY accurate lmao.

 

[fernand]

I broke down and ordered an IR thermometer.
Found one that goes up to 600 deg C or 1112 Deg F.

The whole e-cig experience is IMHO entirely different.

I think we're a bit unsure of how to get to the goal,
which is a portable electronic concentrate vape,
that tastes and feels no worse than a Ti or Quartz
nail.

Where do the nail experts hang out?

 

[DabComa]

The resistance has much less to do with the coils / width of the coil as much as the over all length of the wire. If you take 3/4" and test it in the posts and it comes out to 1.0 ohms, then wrap the whole thing in a coil it will still be one ohm, assuming you used the entire 3/4 inch piece still.

Seems like everytime I post here I have changed my concentrate coil. Now I think I've got it down perfect for the best mixture of heat and longevity, I'm running a 1.37 (1.4) ohm 28 g coil wide enough to fit three 2mm wicks through (wrapped with a drill bit). I can get 3-4 hits from one dab that taste amazingly clean and produce a good amount of smoke (even though I'm trying to get into the habit of not exhaling visible clouds from my concentrates, since I feel like when it's 80+% thc most visible exhale could be considered unnecessarily wasteful).

 

[beatdigger]

The resistance has much less to do with the coils / width of the coil as much as the over all length of the wire. If you take 3/4" and test it in the posts and it comes out to 1.0 ohms, then wrap the whole thing in a coil it will still be one ohm, assuming you used the entire 3/4 inch piece still.

Seems like everytime I post here I have changed my concentrate coil. Now I think I've got it down perfect for the best mixture of heat and longevity, I'm running a 1.37 (1.4) ohm 28 g coil wide enough to fit three 2mm wicks through (wrapped with a drill bit). I can get 3-4 hits from one dab that taste amazingly clean and produce a good amount of smoke (even though I'm trying to get into the habit of not exhaling visible clouds from my concentrates, since I feel like when it's 80+% thc most visible exhale could be considered unnecessarily wasteful).

I'd like to see pics of this build if you feel inspired to do so.

 

[smatchimo55]

The resistance has much less to do with the coils / width of the coil as much as the over all length of the wire. If you take 3/4" and test it in the posts and it comes out to 1.0 ohms, then wrap the whole thing in a coil it will still be one ohm, assuming you used the entire 3/4 inch piece still.

true for the most part, but compressing the coil to where they touch does change it slightly, as well as how long you've been using the coil and how much heat has been run through it also minimally changes resistance, but yes, exponentially less important than the general length and gauge of wire used. Probably a given but obviously number of coils set up as well haha.

just as an example after about 3 weeks of use my quad coil went from a .2 ohm to a .3 to .4 ohm all over time. i took off a coil, now its at .6 lol.... but one thing I do know is it chucks the vapuhr!

rip trippers spoof lmao

 

[fernand]

That's great coil lore.
OK, gents, let's go for some FACTS.

I've broken my reluctance, surmounted my resistance, and to the limits of my fiscal capacitance, I've ordered a decent quality laser pistol-grip InfraRed digital thermometer, w/ 12:1 D:S, adjustable emissivity, and a -58 to 1112 deg F range. By the time metals glow, we can use the color chart - I couldn't find a meter that reads above 1200 F. Even thermocouples that can be used over 1000 F are a special bunch.

Wanna KNOW how hot this or that object or process is?

The device should be here some time next week, on cheap shipping -- it's at least not coming directly from China. For $120, the Fluke Max+ is more expensive but probably better.

I have a Fluke 8060A Lab Multimeter that although one of its buttons is cracked and I haven't replaced it, the button is not important and it's been in continuous use since 1980, that's 34 years. It measures frequency and true RMS voltage of AC waveforms, etc. It's been dropped and used on high voltage equipment, microvolt stuff. Talk about a well-made piece of gear, made in Everett, WA, they STILL sell them. So maybe the yellow $120 Fluke Max+ carries some of that spirit, anyway.

Mine is unashamedly made in China, it's cheaper than the Fluke, but it's not one of the bottom cheapies with no emissivity adjust and that max out at 750 deg F. We'll see if it tells us a Ti nail runs at 100 deg F.

 

[DabComa]

I'd like to see pics of this build if you feel inspired to do so.

my current build pic



Dry firing takes about 6-7 seconds to fully glow red, in the meanwhile producing much smoke in between that period, most people cant hold the power down more then 3 seconds before their choking



Then a pic of a fresh pack AND prime, ready to go.



And a pic after two lung choking hits, still ready to go and hittin hard

This specific coil I started out at 1.8 ohms, and through trial and error slowly worked it down to 1.37 ohms which seems to preform the best for my taste, like I stated before delivering maximum flavor and longevity, using 28g kanthal and 3 braided 2mm wicks twisted into the coil for maximum retention. When the coil was 1.8 ohms I had to shape the + lead into a shape similar to an L in order for it to still reach the + terminal given the space limitations of the Igo-W, and the low resistance of my choice of wire gauge. As I've slowly dropped the resistance to deliver the best throat choking hits I unwound the - lead leaving the L shape untouched on the + lead side. this has now resulted in the coil heating more from the left side then from the right faster, so it glows left to right rather then from the center. Since I haven't found it troublesome at all I haven't seen the need to re-roll a new coil yet, since after all, if it ain't broke, don't fix it!
I attached a hobbed hand drawn NOT TO SCALE! simple hand drawn schematic to show what I'm talking about for the L shaped + lead, and yes, I make very sure that no part of the lead can or will come into contact with any part of the coil.

Edit: had to use a different image hoster since tinypic suddenly decided it didnt like my htc one, and this coil has seen some serious use so far at least 4-5 grams in total at the time of picturing, my daily abuser

 

[fernand]

@DabComa ... Ehrh ... are those girls under your photo like, friends or relatives of yours?

So is your heat-up fast enough to your liking? When you push the button with the coil all loaded with substance like that, what happens? How long does it cook and sputter? So you vape it while it's boiling, and the coil is immersed? When does it start glowing again?

 

[DabComa]

It won't glow with product on it until it's dry again, I can get 3-5 great tasting hits before I start picking up metal hint again, it can give what I call sip hits or if you just hold it down it will give you the equivalent of a dab out of a rig. It produces smoke from the moment the coil is fired, no delays in action. There's also ZERO fear of igniting the vapor, because whatever temp that happens at is never reached by this specific coil.
The chicks are from the image hoster I decided to click the adult theme button for the loaded atty and I guess that's the category my pics got placed with lol

 

[fernand]

@DabComa thanks. So the material goes from cold to boiling in like 2-3 seconds, and then boils/vapes as long as there's something to cook, while the coil temp stays at around the boiling point of the oil, then briefly burns and caramelizes leftovers, then vapor stops as the coil goes red hot. Is there a noticeable change in taste before it resumes glowing, that would suggest burning, or are you totally happy with the taste throughout?

 

[DabComa]

Up untill around the fifth hit the taste is spot on, and then degrades from there until probably the 8-10 th hit where it will no longer make smoke, and the coil can again glow, you definitely know in the user end when it reaches that point because hitting a dry glowing coil is unpleasant. Most people won't drag if they don't see some visible smoke when firing the atty.

 

[fernand]

Theoretically if thé wick is fireproof and the coil is clean you shouldn't be tasting anything, no? so the dry hit must be burning leftovers n, onono likelikelikliklil wow this site falls apart on my Note 3 Firefox.

 

[DabComa]

Built up carbon, from prolonged chronic usage, which by changing the wick material to make it new would remedy. Ive just been lazy and like to use it as long as I can

 

[beatdigger]

The pen I'm using now is crap and I know it's lifespan is limited (medi-puff from puffnugs.)
It sickens me how short the lifespan of the atomizers is. The wick hardens and literally breaks in half between the coils. If it weren't so darn stealth I would have ditched it a long time ago.

Which brings me to my point... All these builds look a little bulky and heavy. The diameter appears larger than a quarter while I would prefer something no larger than a dime and fully uniform and smooth as possible. It's really hard to tell from the pictures how large these builds are. Can someone recommend something small?

I like to use my dabs sparingly and it seems pointless to have a tray larger than a quarter as it would take quite a bit of wax to cover both coils and fill the tray etc.. Am I getting this all wrong?

 

[DabComa]

I only put a regular dab size directly on my coil, so it doesn't waste any, definitely more conservative then my glass at home, and yes for the size form mine is about the diameter of a quarter and as long as a Sharpie, and still fits in my pocket with ease... I went to a mod for two reasons, longer battery life, 1 18650 lasts me all day no problem, but I still carry an extra, and the fact that I'm not restricted to the limitations of the regular battery, as in I can run thicker wires with low resistances.

You can fix those smaller pen style attys if you get wick and wire, you can rebuild it, but it may be difficult prolonged and frustrating, and with a small stock battery you'll only be able to use 32 g or smaller, which is why I went slightly bigger, much more satisfying.

As mods go there are some small ones out there, as mine goes it is pretty sleek and stealthy, esp if you run with a smaller battery...