Elluzion
Vapeosaurus Rex
Thanks for saying it as it should be. I couldn't agree more. It is sad that it had to come down to personal attacks when all that was needed was simple answers.
Adhesives, Insulation and Vape Safety
- Thread starter momofthegoons
- Start date
Thanks for saying it as it should be. I couldn't agree more. It is sad that it had to come down to personal attacks when all that was needed was simple answers.
@ BigDaddyVapor - yes, it was necessary, I've spent the last several months 'turning the other cheek' and I'm all out of cheeks. Just because you might not have heard of something doesn't mean it doesn't exist or hasn't been happening. I did separate the sections of my response though to make it easy for people to see the pieces as such.
To answer you questions specifically: yes I have the MSDS sheets, yes I've read them, yes I follow the appropriate Hazmat guidelines, yes I know what Isocyanates are and store uncured GG accordingly. Not sure what you're point is re: bwade, I don't see that I mocked him (ok maybe a bit about the corporate/craftsman thing
) and what is the problem with my quoting Wikipedia as a source? Their list of RoHS restricted substances is the same as that listed in RoHS Appendix B. Having worked for years in industry with inspection and QC (and in inspection/QC actually) I'm comfortable with my ability to self-regulate and in regard to 'What do I have? Me? My word?', again, yes. I think that's important. I put my reputation and myself behind my product. I'd go as far as to say much more so than many corporate entities. I spent way too many years working at various levels in the corporate world to think for even one second that they are anything but profit based and motivated, maybe you don't share that view.
Now as far as the rest goes I didn't do anything to start, promote or take part in a pissing match. Nor did I say anything that wasn't factual, again, that you might not be aware of something doesn't mean it isn't true. As far as I can see you're the only one in a pissing match mood throwing credentials around, mocking my Wikipedia reference, calling me a liar, etc. Right? Unless I missed some major parts of the conversation that's the way it looks from here. If you go back and look at your first post you can pretty clearly see you were on the offensive from the beginning long before I responded. There was mocking, there was pissing (credential throwing), there was lots of assumption making and little question asking. Just saying.
If you were to read the UD thread top to bottom you'd see that I'm pretty transparent with the design and manufacture of all our products. You'll also see that I do my best to quickly, honestly and with as little bias as possible (everyone's biased including me) answer any questions that people ask. I've never been excluded from that in any way shape or form and to say or imply otherwise is just, well, to put it bluntly, silly. Not that you'd know since we've never talked before and you've never used my vapes (to my knowledge anyways) but I pride myself on my openness with my customers and spend considerable time and resources in working to keep their experiences a positive one and that includes a healthy one.
@ Fred - I think part of the problem is that the safety of these products is subjective and the different parties involved have different opinions. I look at the MSDS sheets for GG and RTV Silicone and see them as safe once cured and as used in the UDs. Other people read them and see the opposite. They sound scary in their precautionary statements but I stand by my belief that the warnings are meant for the uncured states and that once cured they are effectively inert. You can read them yourself and make your own judgement. Here's one for silicone and one for GG.
::edited for typos::
To answer you questions specifically: yes I have the MSDS sheets, yes I've read them, yes I follow the appropriate Hazmat guidelines, yes I know what Isocyanates are and store uncured GG accordingly. Not sure what you're point is re: bwade, I don't see that I mocked him (ok maybe a bit about the corporate/craftsman thing
) and what is the problem with my quoting Wikipedia as a source? Their list of RoHS restricted substances is the same as that listed in RoHS Appendix B. Having worked for years in industry with inspection and QC (and in inspection/QC actually) I'm comfortable with my ability to self-regulate and in regard to 'What do I have? Me? My word?', again, yes. I think that's important. I put my reputation and myself behind my product. I'd go as far as to say much more so than many corporate entities. I spent way too many years working at various levels in the corporate world to think for even one second that they are anything but profit based and motivated, maybe you don't share that view.Now as far as the rest goes I didn't do anything to start, promote or take part in a pissing match. Nor did I say anything that wasn't factual, again, that you might not be aware of something doesn't mean it isn't true. As far as I can see you're the only one in a pissing match mood throwing credentials around, mocking my Wikipedia reference, calling me a liar, etc. Right? Unless I missed some major parts of the conversation that's the way it looks from here. If you go back and look at your first post you can pretty clearly see you were on the offensive from the beginning long before I responded. There was mocking, there was pissing (credential throwing), there was lots of assumption making and little question asking. Just saying.
If you were to read the UD thread top to bottom you'd see that I'm pretty transparent with the design and manufacture of all our products. You'll also see that I do my best to quickly, honestly and with as little bias as possible (everyone's biased including me) answer any questions that people ask. I've never been excluded from that in any way shape or form and to say or imply otherwise is just, well, to put it bluntly, silly. Not that you'd know since we've never talked before and you've never used my vapes (to my knowledge anyways) but I pride myself on my openness with my customers and spend considerable time and resources in working to keep their experiences a positive one and that includes a healthy one.
@ Fred - I think part of the problem is that the safety of these products is subjective and the different parties involved have different opinions. I look at the MSDS sheets for GG and RTV Silicone and see them as safe once cured and as used in the UDs. Other people read them and see the opposite. They sound scary in their precautionary statements but I stand by my belief that the warnings are meant for the uncured states and that once cured they are effectively inert. You can read them yourself and make your own judgement. Here's one for silicone and one for GG.
::edited for typos::
Frederick McGuire
Aggressively Loungey
Ok, I had a quick look at those MDSs, and they're a bit too technical for me. 
BDV (or anyone else with the appropriate knowledge) - do those materials look safe (IYO)?
They do indeed say they are respiratory irritants, but I can't quite find them saying anything about them in a cured state and it makes sense to me that they would be less of an issue once cured.
Of course, common sense isn't always right, and is probably exactly what isn't needed in this situation.
Oh, BTW, if this gorilla glue isn't approved by the FDA for food contact, is it an oversight that you are using it Dave?
Or I dunno, it was added to your process later, and you have a different policy on the safety of your glues etc?
BDV (or anyone else with the appropriate knowledge) - do those materials look safe (IYO)?
They do indeed say they are respiratory irritants, but I can't quite find them saying anything about them in a cured state
and it makes sense to me that they would be less of an issue once cured. Of course, common sense isn't always right, and is probably exactly what isn't needed in this situation
.Oh, BTW, if this gorilla glue isn't approved by the FDA for food contact, is it an oversight that you are using it Dave?
Or I dunno, it was added to your process later, and you have a different policy on the safety of your glues etc?
I just looked and it seems that GG is no longer FDA approved for food contact.
It was at one point but it's probably been a year since I checked so they must have changed in the meantime. To be honest that's not something that would change my opinion on it's safety, though I will need to change the info on the site and whatnot.
It was at one point but it's probably been a year since I checked so they must have changed in the meantime. To be honest that's not something that would change my opinion on it's safety, though I will need to change the info on the site and whatnot.
BigDaddyVapor
@BigDogJunction
I'll say one thing for you, Dave. You're a great salesman.
Sorry, you're still wrong in your initial reaction and continued denial of any wrong-doing. I also, know a bit more than you suspect about the history of your vape. I'm not bringing it up, because contrary to your opinion, I am keeping it civil and don't want to engage in the mud-slinging. Otherwise, I'd bring up some of the things I do know, that you most certainly DON'T want me talking about.
Thank you for the MSDS sheets, you could have just added to a much less paranoid and informative response. I was giving you a second chance. I'm sure, I wasn't the only one. So, not only did you lose my sale, I'm sure you've lost more than that, with a degree of respect to. For my health concerns, I'll pass on your vape and look for someone that when originally warned about some pretty serious concerns with their design/materials, would be more than willing to make them, than trying to blow them off and bury them.
Your vape may be good... but it could be better and yet you refuse to listen, or acknowledge that, when given evidence that there is some concerns that should be addressed.
How about in your next long-winded response, you respond directly to the post, point for point, that started this whole thing?
EDIT: Hey, I'll give you credit for noting the CG food grade correction. I already knew that. A phone call took care of it.
EDIT II: I just went back through all my posts in this thread and I don't attack you, take a hostile posture towards you, nor question your credentials in a single post in this thread, until after you went on the warpath. In fact, in my initial response I made it quite clear I was speaking as someone with experience in the area and was looking for input from YOU as to your methodology.
Sorry, you're still wrong in your initial reaction and continued denial of any wrong-doing. I also, know a bit more than you suspect about the history of your vape. I'm not bringing it up, because contrary to your opinion, I am keeping it civil and don't want to engage in the mud-slinging. Otherwise, I'd bring up some of the things I do know, that you most certainly DON'T want me talking about.
Thank you for the MSDS sheets, you could have just added to a much less paranoid and informative response. I was giving you a second chance. I'm sure, I wasn't the only one. So, not only did you lose my sale, I'm sure you've lost more than that, with a degree of respect to. For my health concerns, I'll pass on your vape and look for someone that when originally warned about some pretty serious concerns with their design/materials, would be more than willing to make them, than trying to blow them off and bury them.
Your vape may be good... but it could be better and yet you refuse to listen, or acknowledge that, when given evidence that there is some concerns that should be addressed.
How about in your next long-winded response, you respond directly to the post, point for point, that started this whole thing?
EDIT: Hey, I'll give you credit for noting the CG food grade correction. I already knew that. A phone call took care of it.
EDIT II: I just went back through all my posts in this thread and I don't attack you, take a hostile posture towards you, nor question your credentials in a single post in this thread, until after you went on the warpath. In fact, in my initial response I made it quite clear I was speaking as someone with experience in the area and was looking for input from YOU as to your methodology.
Slightly Medicated
(SliM) Iron Lungs
I want to say something about the use of gorilla glue to hold the cord. Personally, this does not bother me. It is on a lower part of the device. I also own the newer insulated core versions. The insulation does a good job of keeping the wood cool. I get readings around 100-128 degrees Fahrenheit around the top wood of the various devices. The twig runs a little hotter sometimes it peaks around 133 Fahrenheit. That is the top of the unit though, around the base near the plug area, it is usually 60-80 Fahrenheit degrees depending on ambient temperature. Also this can change depending on the voltage I run the unit with the Variable Voltage Power Supply. I would do measurements right now of my three dogs but I turned them off to move them around and they are cold. 
Personally, I feel like that operating temperature is low enough that I don't worry much about the use of gorilla glue. Before I purchased a unit I read thought the entire thread for the Underdog. Actually, before I have purchased any vape I have come to this forum and read every page of the corresponding product. I read thought all the concerns addressed before I purchased, and I still felt confident in purchasing these devices. Any concern or question I have had has always been addressed promptly.
All of that being said, it is up to the individual user to decide what they consider to be an acceptable level of safety. I am also not qualified to make any technical assessments when it comes to material safety. I do as much research as I can, but I don't have an engineering/chemistry/science degree. Personally, I have never experienced headaches, or adverse affects from using the UD. I think the risk involved in use is relatively low versus all the other risks I take in my daily life. I think if safety is a real concern something like the gnome is a good option. (I am still waiting on mine) I am mostly referring to the fact that you can make it all glass and heat it from the outside with butane.
I am not trying to knock mom's concerns. We are all entitled to our own opinions and expectations. I am just chiming in that I personally still feel confident in using this product. Again it is up to the end user to decide what they consider safe. I just thought I would share my feelings.
I hope we can try to keep this thread civil. I know it would be easy for anyone to come back and say but he/she/it said such first. Maybe we can try and make the discussion as civil as possible. I know mom, Dave, and all of us would both agree that is in everyone's best interest.
Personally, I feel like that operating temperature is low enough that I don't worry much about the use of gorilla glue. Before I purchased a unit I read thought the entire thread for the Underdog. Actually, before I have purchased any vape I have come to this forum and read every page of the corresponding product. I read thought all the concerns addressed before I purchased, and I still felt confident in purchasing these devices. Any concern or question I have had has always been addressed promptly.
All of that being said, it is up to the individual user to decide what they consider to be an acceptable level of safety. I am also not qualified to make any technical assessments when it comes to material safety. I do as much research as I can, but I don't have an engineering/chemistry/science degree. Personally, I have never experienced headaches, or adverse affects from using the UD. I think the risk involved in use is relatively low versus all the other risks I take in my daily life. I think if safety is a real concern something like the gnome is a good option. (I am still waiting on mine) I am mostly referring to the fact that you can make it all glass and heat it from the outside with butane.
I am not trying to knock mom's concerns. We are all entitled to our own opinions and expectations. I am just chiming in that I personally still feel confident in using this product. Again it is up to the end user to decide what they consider safe. I just thought I would share my feelings.
I hope we can try to keep this thread civil. I know it would be easy for anyone to come back and say but he/she/it said such first. Maybe we can try and make the discussion as civil as possible. I know mom, Dave, and all of us would both agree that is in everyone's best interest.
u bwade wunner
Well-Known Member
dave
it wasn t a personal attack on underdog.it was more regarding future manufacturers considering selling these logs.Ok so maybe I stopped short with RoHS complancy.For me its more about product detail and transparency.
the log vape is a pretty simple device that can be assembled in a home workshop.more attention should and needs to be paid to how they are put together and the nature of the internal components.
FC is not just a forum .it is now becoming a major marketplace for vaporizers.A quick buck can be made here and thats what we need to be careful about moving forward.its a medical device.people should come before profit.there are no FC regulations or compliance for log vape manufacturers regarding what can be in the airpath or even outside the airpath.I think we should see more transparency from current and future log vape manufacturers .How their product is assembled and what they contain right down to glues and resins which hold these devices together. as a customer I have the right to know what I.m buying into.
log vapes imo should be quality handmade bespoke products and in my opinion that is where they differ from mass produced products..I don t think they should contain glues and silicones.and mine doesn t.that is why i paid a wad of cash for it.Had i received a unit with glue and silicone,it would have gone straight back.if you make a log and include glues and plastics of any kind expect to meet the wrath of the log community.
Some Log vape owners are sensitive and d ont trust or want glues and silicones and other unnatural substances in their logs.what i do like and trust are wood Stainless steel and glass and even ceramic to an extent.if a component in my log can be held mechanically without glue, good I say.That is why I love my log Its simple and natural and made with a few safe components
If you are asking me what are the issues are with your e vape and the above pictures,.ditch the glue,silicone and Insulation materials and I would have no problems.the scorching and melting plastic is not for me.I am a customer and thats my opinion.i dont have any intention of flaming your e products here.
personally I dont use silicone , I dont trust it.Im closed on that one.
I have other vapes that have plastic components in them but i rarely use them.they were bought earlier when i did nt know any better.We all have a choice in life.again It would certainly be easier to buy a log or any other vape if we knew exactly what it contains and what we are buying into.we should nt need to ask it should be there for all to see at the opening post of the manufacturers thread.
it wasn t a personal attack on underdog.it was more regarding future manufacturers considering selling these logs.Ok so maybe I stopped short with RoHS complancy.For me its more about product detail and transparency.
the log vape is a pretty simple device that can be assembled in a home workshop.more attention should and needs to be paid to how they are put together and the nature of the internal components.
FC is not just a forum .it is now becoming a major marketplace for vaporizers.A quick buck can be made here and thats what we need to be careful about moving forward.its a medical device.people should come before profit.there are no FC regulations or compliance for log vape manufacturers regarding what can be in the airpath or even outside the airpath.I think we should see more transparency from current and future log vape manufacturers .How their product is assembled and what they contain right down to glues and resins which hold these devices together. as a customer I have the right to know what I.m buying into.
log vapes imo should be quality handmade bespoke products and in my opinion that is where they differ from mass produced products..I don t think they should contain glues and silicones.and mine doesn t.that is why i paid a wad of cash for it.Had i received a unit with glue and silicone,it would have gone straight back.if you make a log and include glues and plastics of any kind expect to meet the wrath of the log community.
Some Log vape owners are sensitive and d ont trust or want glues and silicones and other unnatural substances in their logs.what i do like and trust are wood Stainless steel and glass and even ceramic to an extent.if a component in my log can be held mechanically without glue, good I say.That is why I love my log Its simple and natural and made with a few safe components
If you are asking me what are the issues are with your e vape and the above pictures,.ditch the glue,silicone and Insulation materials and I would have no problems.the scorching and melting plastic is not for me.I am a customer and thats my opinion.i dont have any intention of flaming your e products here.
personally I dont use silicone , I dont trust it.Im closed on that one.
I have other vapes that have plastic components in them but i rarely use them.they were bought earlier when i did nt know any better.We all have a choice in life.again It would certainly be easier to buy a log or any other vape if we knew exactly what it contains and what we are buying into.we should nt need to ask it should be there for all to see at the opening post of the manufacturers thread.
weedemon
enthusiast
I think Dave is a really solid dude from what I have gotten to know of him. I feel I can trust him and I think it's a lot more than jsut a business to him. he cares about and stands behind his products! and I also think he is a lot more of an expert on log vapes than I am. haha
I would like to see all the other log vapes taken apart and examined while we are at it. hell not even just log vapes lets see em all!
so i started reading the msds on silicone.
that said though. if it were to break off into smaller particle sizes and become airborne into the air path would it go thought the heat and be burned up? I think it's been blocked off from the air path all together though right?
I would like to see all the other log vapes taken apart and examined while we are at it. hell not even just log vapes lets see em all!
so i started reading the msds on silicone.
This would lead me to believe that it's exactly as Dave said. then the silicone has not set it's off gassing still. (that's then it's not safe to breathe)
that said though. if it were to break off into smaller particle sizes and become airborne into the air path would it go thought the heat and be burned up? I think it's been blocked off from the air path all together though right?
sunsett70
Member
when i read MOTG say "Before I continue, I want to say that I have tried to discuss this privately with Dave. I asked him for the names of the adhesives he uses so that I could research them privately and share/discuss the information with him. He would not cooperate." it seems to imply that Dave was trying to hide or avoid something, when he has asserted that he has always been open to discussion " I'd have been happy to discuss the silicone and adhesives used in the UD assembly as I've openly done with many, many other people. That you chose not to do so despite your "reservations" and that you didn't contact me". seems like a serious accusation here especially as Dave has always been known to be open to discussing stuff. am i missing something?
@bdv
"I'll say one thing for you, Dave. You're a great salesman." bro, are you implying that he cannot walk the walk? again, another serious accusation.
"Sorry, you're still wrong in your initial reaction and continued denial of any wrong-doing. I also, know a bit more than you suspect about the history of your vape. I'm not bringing it up, because contrary to your opinion, I am keeping it civil and don't want to engage in the mud-slinging. " I don't know squat about engineering stuff and really don't care about the history of the UD or whether dave stole the technology from bill gates; but when you mention "Otherwise, I'd bring up some of the things I do know, that you most certainly DON'T want me talking about." it gets me curious. bdv, what are the things that you know, that "dave doesnt want you to talk about". does it have anything to do with the safety concern of the vape? why the reservation? this is a forum, spill it out man.
and what about "Your vape may be good... but it could be better and yet you refuse to listen, or acknowledge that, when given evidence that there is some concerns that should be addressed."how could it be better? who should Dave listen to? a 'better' engineer? i thought dave had addrssed the concerns but maybe you are not happy with his response. Is the evidence so compelling that it overides everything dave says? at the moment, dave is getting it because his UD has "glue,silicone and Insulation materials". Is that the gist of the issue? Please bear in mind that many of us have no engineer background so we can't really argue for or against the design.
And what is this email vendetta against Dave and the UD? i havent heard anythign about this but maybe now is a good time to clean house.
@bdv
"I'll say one thing for you, Dave. You're a great salesman." bro, are you implying that he cannot walk the walk? again, another serious accusation.
"Sorry, you're still wrong in your initial reaction and continued denial of any wrong-doing. I also, know a bit more than you suspect about the history of your vape. I'm not bringing it up, because contrary to your opinion, I am keeping it civil and don't want to engage in the mud-slinging. " I don't know squat about engineering stuff and really don't care about the history of the UD or whether dave stole the technology from bill gates; but when you mention "Otherwise, I'd bring up some of the things I do know, that you most certainly DON'T want me talking about." it gets me curious. bdv, what are the things that you know, that "dave doesnt want you to talk about". does it have anything to do with the safety concern of the vape? why the reservation? this is a forum, spill it out man.
and what about "Your vape may be good... but it could be better and yet you refuse to listen, or acknowledge that, when given evidence that there is some concerns that should be addressed."how could it be better? who should Dave listen to? a 'better' engineer? i thought dave had addrssed the concerns but maybe you are not happy with his response. Is the evidence so compelling that it overides everything dave says? at the moment, dave is getting it because his UD has "glue,silicone and Insulation materials". Is that the gist of the issue? Please bear in mind that many of us have no engineer background so we can't really argue for or against the design.
And what is this email vendetta against Dave and the UD? i havent heard anythign about this but maybe now is a good time to clean house.
BigDaddyVapor
@BigDogJunction
Sure, weedemon. I see you've got a few vapes there to disassemble. I'll check back tomorrow. 
I've said my piece, sunsett. If the person(s) that shared some very disturbing info with me, in regards to the safety of the UD, wish to speak up, that is their right. I'm not betraying their trust. I was asked specifically NOT to bring it up, because Dave was being given the chance to correct the issues. It appears, he hasn't, nor is willing to.
I'm not even going to bother, addressing your interpretation of my quote... especially one that specifically puts words in my mouth. I don't play that game. I made a single observation, with that quote. Don't read anything more into it. You don't know me well-enough, to be even remotely close.
As for the UD Email Smear Campaign? Ask Dave... I've never heard about it either, but according to his paranoid rant and rubbing elbows with his buddies in the thread, its out there, its real... and its ALL lies!
All you Dave fans, enjoy your wood, glue and silicone adhesive vapes. I wish you nothing but healthy vaping and hope you don't ever have issues because of your choice. I know I've had to face enough consequences in my life, that something like this, if I were the "engineer"... would be a HUGE wake-up call. It would light a fire under my ass. However, I guess Dave feels differently.
As for this thread, I'm done with it. I'm done arguing with Dave. I'm done arguing with his fans, that believe anything Dave tells them. I'm a bit more guarded with my health, to take chances. I know I won't ever buy one of his vapes, so I'm not really much interested in a subject much anymore, that I once was.
I've said my piece, sunsett. If the person(s) that shared some very disturbing info with me, in regards to the safety of the UD, wish to speak up, that is their right. I'm not betraying their trust. I was asked specifically NOT to bring it up, because Dave was being given the chance to correct the issues. It appears, he hasn't, nor is willing to.
I'm not even going to bother, addressing your interpretation of my quote... especially one that specifically puts words in my mouth. I don't play that game. I made a single observation, with that quote. Don't read anything more into it. You don't know me well-enough, to be even remotely close.
As for the UD Email Smear Campaign? Ask Dave... I've never heard about it either, but according to his paranoid rant and rubbing elbows with his buddies in the thread, its out there, its real... and its ALL lies!
All you Dave fans, enjoy your wood, glue and silicone adhesive vapes. I wish you nothing but healthy vaping and hope you don't ever have issues because of your choice. I know I've had to face enough consequences in my life, that something like this, if I were the "engineer"... would be a HUGE wake-up call. It would light a fire under my ass. However, I guess Dave feels differently.
As for this thread, I'm done with it. I'm done arguing with Dave. I'm done arguing with his fans, that believe anything Dave tells them. I'm a bit more guarded with my health, to take chances. I know I won't ever buy one of his vapes, so I'm not really much interested in a subject much anymore, that I once was.
weedemon
enthusiast
I also thought it was wierd there seems to be quite a difference in the stories here. one says the company would not share their trade secrets of what materials they were suing inside their products. the other says they welcome full disclosure. im not calling either side liars, but this is how i understand it.
from my personal experience I asked him about the stems, and how safe they were, he again referred me to a site that identified exactly what they were made out of and what they are rated for to be able to hand heat wise. I was satisfied bought the vape.
Maybe Mom's UD was running a little warmer than it should have been?
@ BDV, I'll get right on that! I'll post pics of my gn0me, my HMK swing, and a shot running though my cloud.
from my personal experience I asked him about the stems, and how safe they were, he again referred me to a site that identified exactly what they were made out of and what they are rated for to be able to hand heat wise. I was satisfied bought the vape.
Maybe Mom's UD was running a little warmer than it should have been?
@ BDV, I'll get right on that! I'll post pics of my gn0me, my HMK swing, and a shot running though my cloud.
Slightly Medicated
(SliM) Iron Lungs
@Weedemon what core do you have the old 24/7 or the new insulated 24/7?
Slightly Medicated
(SliM) Iron Lungs
Okay, I have the new insulated ones. I was just curious. I am trying to keep track of who has which core and such. 
zmurder
Well-Known Member
I would like to see all the other log vapes taken apart and examined while we are at it. hell not even just log vapes lets see em all!
Couldn't agree more. These log vapes are so simple that they really should be user-disassemblable. I know of only one log vape manufacturer that makes his that way -- Alan. And having a log that doesn't use glue or silicon makes me really not want to go back.
Slightly Medicated
(SliM) Iron Lungs
darkrom
Great Scott!
So what you are saying is this isn't an attack against underdog but a safety issue. But you care so much about the safety of us users that you are going to withhold a secret safety issue you know of? If you believe to know of a safety issue and withhold that you are one sick person IMO.
momofthegoons
vapor accessory addict
I can see a lot has happened since I went to bed last night. I am going to try to address Dave's accusations.
As I posted above, I was assured when I read your post here that you had addressed the things that had been found in your vape that were of a concern and had changed your design accordingly.
Pardon me? My recent WHAT? Let me set the record on this right now. I emailed Dave twice prior to making this post. Period. I have not emailed other members and attacked the UD. I have not attacked Dave. I gave him two chances to respond to my questions. I waited over a week from my last email to post my questions here. And, I copied vtac in on my emails to him. Hardly an email attack. I'd be a little careful with that mud slinging Dave.
Believe what you want Dave (and anyone else who feels the same way). I do not care. I know what I've done and how I've done it. And I've done nothing wrong.
So Dave, according the the MSDS sheet you linked, you use the standard Gorilla glue and not the version they make for wood?
I've also looked at the MSDS sheet you linked for Devcon. One thing stood out,
"Inhalation:Respiratory tract irritant. High concentration may cause dizziness, headache, and anesthetic effects."
and
Signs/SymptomsOverexposure can cause headaches, dizziness, nausea, and vomiting.
Hmmmm, makes me wonder if Devcon has done any testing to see what vapors are released when their cured product is heated to the point your silicone is heated to at the heatport of your vape. We know it gets hot enough to scorch the insulation.
My bad. I contacted you afterwards. Twice. And you would not share the information with me. You offered me reassurances that your product was fine, you told me you felt it was impossible that my headaches were caused by it and offered me a refund. You never answered one question.
I can see by your posts that you are angry. But this anger is misplaced. I tried to do this privately with you and you would not respond in any way other than to dismiss my concerns.
As I posted above, I was assured when I read your post here that you had addressed the things that had been found in your vape that were of a concern and had changed your design accordingly.
You are right. I didn't mention it. Dave offered me a refund. And I told him that when I purchased this vape I was making a charitable donation and that I am not in the habit of taking back charitable donations. I told him that this was not about getting the money back. That I wanted some information about his materials and that I would like to discuss it privately, rather than bringing it to the forum.
Pardon me? My recent WHAT? Let me set the record on this right now. I emailed Dave twice prior to making this post. Period. I have not emailed other members and attacked the UD. I have not attacked Dave. I gave him two chances to respond to my questions. I waited over a week from my last email to post my questions here. And, I copied vtac in on my emails to him. Hardly an email attack. I'd be a little careful with that mud slinging Dave.
Believe what you want Dave (and anyone else who feels the same way). I do not care. I know what I've done and how I've done it. And I've done nothing wrong.
No and it never was. Gorilla glue has never applied for FDA approval. I know this because I spoke with their R & D Dept. They also told me that they've never tested Gorilla glue for vapor release in applications where it could remelt. They were also concerned to hear that the glue was being used in a device you breath through for medicating in an application where it could melt .
So Dave, according the the MSDS sheet you linked, you use the standard Gorilla glue and not the version they make for wood?
I've also looked at the MSDS sheet you linked for Devcon. One thing stood out,
"Inhalation:Respiratory tract irritant. High concentration may cause dizziness, headache, and anesthetic effects."
and
Signs/SymptomsOverexposure can cause headaches, dizziness, nausea, and vomiting.
Hmmmm, makes me wonder if Devcon has done any testing to see what vapors are released when their cured product is heated to the point your silicone is heated to at the heatport of your vape. We know it gets hot enough to scorch the insulation.
My bad. I contacted you afterwards. Twice. And you would not share the information with me. You offered me reassurances that your product was fine, you told me you felt it was impossible that my headaches were caused by it and offered me a refund. You never answered one question.
I can see by your posts that you are angry. But this anger is misplaced. I tried to do this privately with you and you would not respond in any way other than to dismiss my concerns.
vorrange
Vapor.wise
I don't know if i am crossing the line here but, it is clear that this is a delicate subject.
If we keep discussing what someone eventually said, withheld or whatever, it is very easy to get carried away with your emotions.
I think no one likes his own project being questioned so openly and i would have to make an effort and keep my cool and as such i understand Dave.
The same goes for Mom or BDV, because I also believe that people who have more sensitive bodies or health concerns that warrant more care, will have a more strict position about potential health hazards
So, my message to everyone is:
Let's understand each others positions and eventual injustices or harsher words, because delicate subjects like this will inevitably bring them to the discussion.
The only important thing here is to evaluate the potential hazard of the materials used. The rest is vaporizer politcs and i don't think it adds any value to the issue at hand.
If we keep discussing what someone eventually said, withheld or whatever, it is very easy to get carried away with your emotions.
I think no one likes his own project being questioned so openly and i would have to make an effort and keep my cool and as such i understand Dave.
The same goes for Mom or BDV, because I also believe that people who have more sensitive bodies or health concerns that warrant more care, will have a more strict position about potential health hazards
So, my message to everyone is:
Let's understand each others positions and eventual injustices or harsher words, because delicate subjects like this will inevitably bring them to the discussion.
The only important thing here is to evaluate the potential hazard of the materials used. The rest is vaporizer politcs and i don't think it adds any value to the issue at hand.
BigDaddyVapor
@BigDogJunction
Yes. I'm very sick. Literally.
If you go back thru the thread my two sticking points were/are gorilla clue and MSDS. With mention of some sloppy soldering. Does it make more sense now? Or you can just go on thinking really mean thoughts about me.
Edited: under extreme duress and threats of bodily harm.
Slightly Medicated
(SliM) Iron Lungs
I just wanted to quote my previous thread. I don't like where things have the potential of going... please everyone can we stick to the important points and drop the other stuff.
foggy mornings
Member
it is always beneficial to remain vigilant over ones health, and very nice to inform the community. i am glad to know there no gg in the twigs (that is what you said and meant, right dave?). i am usually sensitive to smells but noticed nothing but the smell of wood on my ud. i dont have any problems with mine still. i definitely found it really easy to get in touch with dave when i had some questions so i defintely didnt have the same experience at all.
darkrom
Great Scott!
I am not trying to be rude here, you just said you know of some safety issue that hasn't been brought up correct or am I understanding wrong? If there is an issue that you haven't brought up that you know about, the responsible thing to do would be to warn people like me who use this vape, not keep a secret to someone else you were talking to. Seems like common sense to me that if I knew it was bad I'd share why!
BigDaddyVapor
@BigDogJunction
Yes, I am very concerned about sniffing a vape with GG used as a bonding agent, when its NOT food grade, never has been and the MSDS specifically speaks about the possible side-effects of inhaling it, which happen to be similar to the same symptoms, mom reported.
The glue does NOT have to be in the "vapor path". It really just has to be around your nose, where you're sniffing it, if its a large enough quantity. However, given that this particular usage is also being used in a unit exposed to heat, I find that especially troubling also.
Thank you and goodnight.
The glue does NOT have to be in the "vapor path". It really just has to be around your nose, where you're sniffing it, if its a large enough quantity. However, given that this particular usage is also being used in a unit exposed to heat, I find that especially troubling also.
Thank you and goodnight.