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Discontinued Zion vaporizer

Discussion in 'Portable Vaporizers' started by lwien, Jan 22, 2015.

  1. Farkas

    Farkas Do you know about the bird?

    Messages:
    141
    Well, no bueno. Back she goes. I will reach out to Ryan at some point this week and ship her back. A bit disheartening since it worked so well in the beginning, but it is what it is.
     
  2. jimdee

    jimdee Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    36
    Greetings all,

    Just got my Zion yesterday and think it might be having issues. From a cold start, I can only get visible vapor if I turn the power switch to maximum and hold the button for a long 5 seconds. Even then, I get only wispy vapor. Even after heat soaking, I get wispy, barely visible vapor on the medium settings. I'm keeping the button pressed during my hit, stirring the load after. ABV is not getting very dark, unless I really push it. Even then, it's not all that dark. My Mighty gives much fuller hits (not to mention my cloud evo!).

    I'm thinking I might need to reach out to Ryan for help (possibly service), but thought to ask here first. Does this sound familiar to anyone? Any suggestions?

    Thanks,
    Jim
     
  3. buckhakeesah

    buckhakeesah Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    164
    I gotta admit i had a similar experience but am waiting to play with it some more to dial in. Hope you get yours working to your satisfaction.
     
    jimdee likes this.
  4. AJS

    AJS Calm Consistency

    Messages:
    2,198
    Doesn't sound totally normal. Make sure u are drawing slow and push the basket to the tip of the stem and fill it full.
     
  5. Dramma Lamma

    Dramma Lamma Looks like a job for!

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    281
    Sounds like my experience, its bassically un-usable unless I feather/plug the air intake to restrict draw while also inhaling as slow as possible. I really don't find it to work dry whatsoever personally. To get a real hit dry it needs full power, essentially fully restricted draw (which takes both hands) as well as the slowest draw I can possibly do. Even then I really cant say it preforms as well as a Milaana dry, which works fine but just needs a stir or 3.

    Zion works pretty great at around 75-85% power through a small bubbler and restricting the air intake medium/heavily. Through a bubbler its pretty keen and I certainly do enjoy it.

    But that winds up putting the device in a horribly awkward state. Its not as replacable/durable/simple as other portables but not quite a desktop either.

    It doesn't even have any screen on the air intake, come the F on! Even the early generations of milaana had sceeening, I don't know how to not be upset about that. What the hell happened to the whole "zion will be built with the lessons we learned from Milaana" BS we heard all the time?

    Also if we can plug the air intake fully and still inhale through the device that means you obviously are drawing in at least some air past the electronics. Which we see other vapes/manufacturers get torn to peices about, but nobody seems to care here.


    I really only feel it works well with a bubbler, so it's just not ever going to be a sneaky/quick vape to me. It's perfect for taking to a hotel or using in the driveway/balconies, but it's never something I could feel confident just tossing in a bag/pocket and go wherever or for quick outings.

    I'm not even going to dig on and detail how the jointing sanding leaves so much to be desired, its worse than the old generation millanas let's just say that. Nor the dent where I can see my unit was dropped then sanded out. Didn't someone actually return theirs because they were so disappointed in the fit & finish quality?

    I e-mailed ryan/rbt back and fourth daily for over a week since it arrived and it sounds like this unit is not defective, I can send it back to get the power from the dc converter turned up but that's about it.

    Once the honeymoon wears off and my mighty is back from waranty service I'll be really tempted to hit up the classifieds, but I'm also a sucker for collelctibles so we will see.
     
    Andreaerdna likes this.
  6. muunch

    muunch hotboxing the cockpit

    Messages:
    1,429
    It goes thru wood, then hits the heater. Then it's all glass.

    The electronics are all above the battery compartment. The airpath is pretty much exactly the same as a Milaana and just as clean. I notice absolutely no taste other than my herbs.

    Fresh air goes thru wood and the heater material and the glass stem (and female joint it goes into) are the entirety of the vapor-path, if I'm not mistaken.

    Mine rips still. I definitely prefer it to a Milaana and have no problem tossing this in a backpack for a day out and getting ripped.

    Sucks some people are having issues. This was everything I had wanted/expected.
     
    Hogni, vapen00b, sickmanfraud and 3 others like this.
  7. Cl4ud3

    Cl4ud3 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    443
    Location:
    Wales
    Curious if the units with the low power or faults as such are the last batch to go out ? the ones with the new resistor ,or are some of these from the batch before as well.
     
    Philreal187 likes this.
  8. Dramma Lamma

    Dramma Lamma Looks like a job for!

    Messages:
    281
    Completely plug the air intake, can you still draw anything through the device?

    I can, it HAS to come past some electronics / battery, there is no other option if the air intake is fully plugged.

    Mine is from the batch just after the bleed through / accidental overheating was fixed.
    I have thankfully not had any such issues and the device seems safe to leave the batteries in while not in use.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
  9. KeroZen

    KeroZen Chronic vapaholic

    Messages:
    2,386
    Location:
    On Air
    Most users here surely forgot that there is yet some technique to learn to get good hits from it.

    I can't compare the Zion to the Mighty or EVO as I don't own either, but several users who got them did compare it positively to these models (as well as the LSV) So we all seem to agree that when it works, it works pretty well and it's quite a beast.

    So either 1) we don't have the same definition of what a beast is, 2) your devices don't work the same way as ours and are somehow inferior, or 3) you didn't find and perfect the right technique yet.

    For the isolation part, I knew it was the case for my alpha unit but if you saw how crude and early it is, that would be the least important thing to complain about! :p

    Now I checked with my first production batch device, and indeed the two holes where the heater electrodes cross diagonally from the upper circuit section to the lower part are too large. I even think they are larger than what I saw in my Milaana when it was undergoing its upgrading operation (which btw has to some extent the exact same problem)

    If I block the air intake and blow like an elephant I can feel some air escaping from the top section through the battery contact holes. For sure it's not optimal, but I guess my expectations are lower for a hand-crafted item compared to a production one? Plus I know exactly what is inside that top electronics compartment and I'm not overly concerned (contrary to what I saw when I gutted many Chinese vapes)

    But isolating the path of these two heater electrodes is a recurring problem. I've seen solutions implemented that are way worse like passing through a silicone piece or using dabs of silicone bonding glue... It's not easy to solve in an elegant way actually, and I thought about it a lot... but I digress.

    Yes it would be better if this problem was not present, you are right. But under normal conditions I think the vast majority of the air flow comes directly from the intake hole in-line with the heater, rather than through that long convoluted path which seems to need quite some pressure to clear, at least that's the impression I have seeing how hard I need to blow to make air escape that way.
     
  10. Shit Snacks

    Shit Snacks Milaana. Lana. LANA. LAANAAAAAA

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    Location:
    Motion Pictures
    Yeah I will say a brief bit before more later, I just got a new production Zion from someone else (a member here got a friend to pre order and try vaping again, but they still weren't taking to the idea over smoking so they reached out to me) and even though I was a zteam tester with Zion #4 RIP Ziggy OG, I am finding I will need to relearn some technique after relying on Milaana for so long. Revived Ziggy and new Zenon are rough and unique for various reasons, but truly each one has its own ins and outs... Will wait for a name for this one to come find me, and I will show photos bc it is so fucking beautiful, can't believe how smooth (and I thought Zen was smooth! Ha) and well put together it is. Fit and finish is nearly flawless, very impressive for a handmade finalized production model, even if it is a short run! The hilarity is not lost on me that by now I actually am Newman running home for a big pot to stock up on all the soup thats left
     
    vapen00b, buckhakeesah and KeroZen like this.
  11. HD Springer

    HD Springer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    960

    Have you thought about eBay. It would be very interesting to see what one of these would bring. Of course I would put a reserve on it.
     
    vapen00b likes this.
  12. buckhakeesah

    buckhakeesah Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    164
    I had another chance to work on my technique a bit more with this new zion. My problem was definitely due to technique. It is slower to get up to temp than my old Milaana as others have stated, but never having to feather is highly welcomed. Once warmed up, what a portable fog machine. Mine appears to be set lowest power at like 5pm and gets hottest at like 2pm. I ran it at 12pm on the dial today and had a great experience.

    For those still having dialing in issues, keep working on it, it's a keeper for me.
     
    Philreal187, Farkas, cybrguy and 6 others like this.
  13. Farkas

    Farkas Do you know about the bird?

    Messages:
    141
    Figure I'll give it one last shot with a new set of batteries. Charging now, so should be ready in a few hours. Cleaned the contacts a bit just to be on the safe side, too. Would be great if it was somehow faulty batteries, but I'm not overly optimistic. We shall see....
     
  14. Bandoo

    Bandoo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    143
    The last Zion has arrived home here in Zion. :)

    Works perfect, awesome smooth finish! :love:

    The Zion - The Ana-Log Vaporizer :nod:

    Thank you Ryan. Well worth the wait.
    The journey is sometimes the destination...
     
  15. Farkas

    Farkas Do you know about the bird?

    Messages:
    141
    No dice. I do get some heat, but not enough to do the job even at full power on the dial. Time to pack her up and send her back.
     
    AJS likes this.
  16. cybrguy

    cybrguy Patience Rewards

    Messages:
    4,639
    Bummer, @Farkas . I don't remember, are you in US?
     
  17. Farkas

    Farkas Do you know about the bird?

    Messages:
    141
    Yes sir. Wish I had kept the box it was shipped in, though.
     
  18. cybrguy

    cybrguy Patience Rewards

    Messages:
    4,639
    Well, the good news is that you shouldn't have that excruciating wait for it to cross the pond both ways. I imagine he will get it back to you soon as I'm sure he wants to move on to Splinter and get Zion all settled. I hope it's a quick turnaround.
     
    sickmanfraud likes this.
  19. vapen00b

    vapen00b various on-demand full convection units

    Messages:
    1,367
    To everyone having problems with ‘cold’ Zions, here’s what Ryan suggested. Some might know already as I posted that a while back, but might help getting the technique down:

    -put a piece of tape over the inlet and poke a small hole through it with a toothpick
    - draw ultra slow in general


    Ryan is aware that some people are having difficulties with super wide open airflow and is reducing the inlet size on Splinter and Milaana 2.


    Hope this helps!
    :peace:
     
  20. AJS

    AJS Calm Consistency

    Messages:
    2,198
    :myday::rant::shrug:
     
    Shit Snacks, cybrguy, KeroZen and 2 others like this.
  21. KeroZen

    KeroZen Chronic vapaholic

    Messages:
    2,386
    Location:
    On Air
    Damn, the inlet size was reduced between my alpha and my production Zion and I already thought it had a negative impact. I even thought about enlarging it myself.

    A lot of users just love how free flowing RBT vapes are. Why cripple them just to please a few who are not able to learn how to regulate their draw speed?

    Intake holes can be obstructed easily but enlarging them is harder.

    +100
     
  22. Farkas

    Farkas Do you know about the bird?

    Messages:
    141
    I'm a bit confused, then. Wasn't it promoted as "you can't overwhelm the heater technology" way back when? I'd hoover as hard as I could when I first got mine and it would be just fine producing vapor. Now? Nada.
     
  23. cybrguy

    cybrguy Patience Rewards

    Messages:
    4,639
    I tend to agree. I haven't handled the Splinter yet, but I certainly wouldn't want to shrink the air hole on my Zion. As Kero said, you can always reduce it manually, but you can't increase it...
    I think the idea here is to help people get used to the open airflow. By reducing it temporarily you get a feel for how to modulate it, than you won't need any unnatural restriction.
     
    Philreal187 and KeroZen like this.
  24. Farkas

    Farkas Do you know about the bird?

    Messages:
    141
    I think that since it is self-regulated with respect to temp (or voltage, to be more accurate?), I'm not sure why you'd need to "learn" how to hit it, though. Load, turn the dial, press the button, and draw at whatever speed you feel comfortable. It's not a Milaana after all, right? Am I missing something here?
     
  25. cybrguy

    cybrguy Patience Rewards

    Messages:
    4,639
    If you don't have the heat all the way up it isn't difficult to overwhelm the heater. The statement "you can't overwhelm the heater" applies to a Zion at maximum. I never use mine over about 75%. Disclaimer: Mine is a beta. I haven't used a production Zion.
     
    KeroZen likes this.

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