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Discontinued Zion vaporizer

Discussion in 'Portable Vaporizers' started by lwien, Jan 22, 2015.

  1. KeroZen

    KeroZen Chronic vapaholic

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    Can't overwhelm is not how I would phrase it. Able to produce thick vapor constantly without dropping a beat whatever the duration of your draw yes. It will produce until your lungs are full, even if you have elephant lungs.

    But the vape is voltage regulated, not temperature regulated, this was told clearly right from the start. The knob sets the power not the temperature. You can draw too fast and introduce more cool air that just passes around the heater and lowers the temperature.

    Note that with other temperature regulated convection vapes that I have, if you draw too hard it's the inverse: the temperature at the bowl increases while the heater temperature stays more or less constant.

    The problem in both cases is that there is no flow rate sensor, so we're missing one of the most important variables in the equation. Higher flow with heater at a given temperature means more excited hot air molecules hitting the bowl and more calories transferred.

    So whether it's temperature regulated or not, you have to control your draw speed in order to achieve a constant temperature at the bowl. In the Zion I inhale very slowly in practice. What is important is to create a constant vacuum. Imagine you're slowly pulling a syringe piston, that's how I visualize it.
     
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  2. TeeJay1952

    TeeJay1952 Well-Known Member

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    I think the last batch that had the "Heat Bomb" may have burned out rheostat. Mine only heated at 100% and did indeed work like Millenia. It was tasty but very mindful to operate. Watching the vids here showed me the device I wanted and so I returned. {very painful}
    5 weeks on Friday and exchange with Ryan he said he is working on M batch {New money for survival} and would get to repairs shortly.
    The Earth abides and so do I. :rockon::myday:
     
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  3. Shit Snacks

    Shit Snacks Milaana. Lana. LANA. LAANAAAAAA

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    Yeah I dono, maybe this is bc I sent Ryan a message the other day about my new one, after spending a few days with it, I said I have to agree with the running cold sentiments. I suspected it could be technique as I said here earlier, but it really seems like its not working as it should. 2/3s of my dial feel useless, even with long preheat and trigger ride plus very slow sip draw as I like, even puffing, can get some slight taste and definitely a very strong buzz though. Its like the kind of performance I'd expect for low low on the dial at or just above 0% but even 50% feels like that. I have just mostly been using the final 3rd of the dial and there I can get a bit of power control, but not much. If I start and finish at max temp, I get nice low temp extraction for my purposes. Seems impossible to scorch even there, not like the max temp I am used to, more like what 75% should be perhaps? Even my cold Zenon can char at max or below, though she is a little tedious to use and coax with meh vapor quality (Ziggy is supper hot with limited dial turn, can't go above 75% but would never need too, vapor quality is better as a result) and Milaana can hit the heights better too. However the vapor quality is just amazing in this new one, smooth tasty thick when hit well, so I will send it in to be inspected later to get my full power control that I am used to from beta testing (still chasing OG Ziggy dreams). Not for a while though, because I want him to be free to work on it without taking away from manufacturing, and also because as I said the performance even at this limited temp/power range is so fucking phenomenal. Oh and the build quality, damn I just like holding the thing! I know I still need to share photos...
     
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  4. jimdee

    jimdee Well-Known Member

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    36
    So, I reached out to Ryan and he replied saying he thinks it's "probably a bad potentiometer". He also said that I should not detect any change in heat when the voltage knob is turned if that's the case.

    That seems to describe exactly what I'm seeing here. So, I'll be sending it back for service. I'll let y'all know how it goes.

    Best,
    /jd
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
  5. Cl4ud3

    Cl4ud3 Well-Known Member

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    This is why I asked if the people having faults were the very last batch with the new resistor or whatever as this is what I've been getting. I'm not getting heat anywhere near the Milaana even with long long button holding on 90%. No chance whatsoever of charring even on max, the first 75% of the dial might as well not be there. I do understand technique but we are just sucking warm air through a tube, it isn't rocket science.

    I am getting results from it on 75% + but it takes work. The original stems that came with it are a basic no go at the moment as the airflow is just too much for the unit, I can slow slow draw so im basically just letting it roll through and get only a light result. Using my dirty Milaana stems though and it's seems to be enough restriction to get something meaningful.

    I did try everything from checking the contacts, new batteries, plugging the battery compartment holes to stop the air coming in from there. I just think that unfortunately there might be some lower power Zions in the last batch :(

    Edit:- should say I haven't contacted Ryan over this, I know he is ridiculously busy and I was hoping to find a way to sort it myself seeing as I'm not in the US.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
  6. Shit Snacks

    Shit Snacks Milaana. Lana. LANA. LAANAAAAAA

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    Mine is #69 (:brow:)

    It definitely takes Zion longer to get heat soaked than Milaana regardless, but yeah even thoroughly heat soaked my power seems to be lagging. Who knows the cause, at least they do work? Waited this long so what's a bit longer as they say, nice to have something for now, and we can look forward to a future where it will perform even better as well?
     
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  7. Cl4ud3

    Cl4ud3 Well-Known Member

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    71 here :shrug:
    That's like a 69 with 2 fin. . . . I won't :lol:

    Yeah it works, I'm happy with it, I could be happier but I still reach for the thing all the time so that says something.
    The feel on the wood :mmmm:, I find myself rubbing the cap in my hand because if feels so smooth and nice.

    Not knocking the thing but it is more on the cooler side than I would have liked.
     
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  8. KeroZen

    KeroZen Chronic vapaholic

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    Hm maybe there's a problem after-all... I don't know really. I also use both of my devices near 75% on the knob and never touch it because it's my sweet spot. Gives me full extraction over a rather lengthy session, which is what I'm looking for (contrary to most of you bubbler guys, I have strictly no interest in extracting my entire load in 1 to 3 giant rips, I enjoy making the pleasure last long. This is also why I never enjoyed Californian glassware when I smoked as it forced you to have super short sessions, the damn thing always lit off if you were not constantly using it...)

    But I know other testers do, like @stickstones or @IAmKrazy2 to summon a few... So I imagine that it works for them too?

    On my alpha device the knob range is terrible. Under 50% it's all taste but a struggle to get much visible exhale and extraction is super slow. But back then we were collectively trying to decide what range to chose. Second unit is calibrated better. You guys pretty much describe what we had for the alphas, so that would be a step back...

    If you need more than 75% to get good vapor, something's definitely off.
     
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  9. Farkas

    Farkas Do you know about the bird?

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    141
    Well, that's it right there. 75% is the sweet spot, easily, at least for me in the beginning. Now it's not even close. Zero vapor on any setting. Not using it as others have recommended - pass on the tape band-aid. Sorry I'm not sorry about not using some half-assed work around to "learn" how to make this bitch work. It was sold as a load, hit and love it unit. Mine is not. I have no other issues. The unit is bad. That's it. It's ok to say. No offense, of course.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
  10. KeroZen

    KeroZen Chronic vapaholic

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    I hope Ryan will fix it quickly and get you back on tracks. Sad to see so many issues since the production restarted.
     
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  11. Farkas

    Farkas Do you know about the bird?

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    Amen, brother. And I know he will.
     
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  12. Bandoo

    Bandoo Well-Known Member

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    Mine is the last one made and it's perfect.

    It's The Ana-Log vape

    One other thing about it is that you will never lose it around the house...

    Thank you Ryan ☀️
     
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  13. Shit Snacks

    Shit Snacks Milaana. Lana. LANA. LAANAAAAAA

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    Alright I'm back on the fence :rolleyes::lol: there might be something to the draw restriction angle. Honestly I have to test more before I can really say for sure one way or the other... Its like I am born again, rediscovering my one true love
     
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  14. Cl4ud3

    Cl4ud3 Well-Known Member

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    Well mine was requested back, I'm leaning towards a dirty potentiometer because after turning it back and forth a bit it seemed to be more responsive. Temperature was still low though as even on max I needed 8 to 10 long draws to extract and no charring, and still nothing on the lower 60% of the dial.
    Glass has to be replaced anyway so even though it's a long journey and cost it has to be done, back to the waiting. :\
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017 at 6:24 PM
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  15. Shit Snacks

    Shit Snacks Milaana. Lana. LANA. LAANAAAAAA

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    Did some more testing, tried the tape last night a little bit, and today had a session without it starting low trying to milk below 50% and various spots below max. I needed to draw very slow (steady milkshake straw style, not the most comfortable) with liberal preheat (10sec like the old days, until I got above 70% and it was more heat soaked) and long hits. It actually seemed to work pretty well, and I was able to finish the fully packed basket bowl at about 80% with minimal left to extract despite a not too dark abv (as is typical for me with my convection vaping). I still don't think I can combust even ten percent with it though, scorching nearly impossible, maybe it I coax it up at max temp like I did on the lower end it could char, not that I want to try so much!

    The turbulator definitely makes for some even heating with hotspots extremely difficult to create and minimal the few times I have. I will say the air intake is smaller than both Ziggy (his was biggest of all betas even, and now he's tuned almost too hot to trot anyway so even out?) and Zenon (who runs cool/slow and sees top third of the dial almost exclusively, but can certainly scorch, no turbulators in these Dec.2015 roughies) though so I'm not sure. There are a lot of variables to consider, and when it comes down to it the vapor quality is phenomenal. It is a joy to use, to hold, and seems easy to share (I did so at max temp) with its regulation and refined heater as well.

    Not being able to combust doesn't seem like a bad thing for sure, and the one bowl I did through water did seem to extract quickly I think (here the intake covering/uncovering like a carb may make more sense, it was two hits and I did that on the second a bit) without scorching. So I am coming back around thinking it could just be technique, since these turned out to be such complex handcrafted creations with potential variation unit to unit... Might be fun to trade with someone like @AJS and see if we both can get our normal results with each other's units, then we'd really know what is what... Maybe :lol:

    I will say this though, if the Splinter is using a Zion heater like this, with full digital regulation of a mod with endless possibilities tweaked for each individual user, then it is going to be a pretty fucking incredible product me thinks!
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017 at 3:24 PM
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  16. Cl4ud3

    Cl4ud3 Well-Known Member

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    Should it need such a long heat soak to get results though? I mean I can pick up the Milaana and have a thick hit in 10-15 seconds from dead cold if I wanted, even maxed I couldn't get thick hits until I had already done one full session.
    The units are supposed to be 200-250 degrees in I think it was 5 seconds (? or is this just Milaana? if so what is Zion ?), now the Milaana's certainly are but my Zion certainly wasn't.
    I know it will be resolved but I'm just trying to add things to the discussion so we all know what we 'should' be getting as a standard.
    Should the dial be nothing till over 50% ? well it isn't ideal imo.
    Should you be able to combust? well on max frankly yes if the temp is reaching where it should be and you were wanting to do higher temp concentrates maybe.

    Any thoughts ?
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017 at 4:11 PM
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  17. Shit Snacks

    Shit Snacks Milaana. Lana. LANA. LAANAAAAAA

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    This confused me, was what?

    Temperature is not really a useful indicator here since there is no temp control, just power control. I know in Ziggy way back when, beta #4, I was doing 5-10sec preheats depending on how heat soaked or where on the dial. When I got Zig back with new heater and Zen too, both were supposed to be used without preheat at all, which they could. I don't know if now we are back at preheat or not, I was expecting only for ripper draws lower on the dial if so, but even restricting the airflow seems to need a preheat below 50% as well...

    However I felt like this morning my below 50% performance was reasonable, taste and effects, upper end more clouds thought wispier, while turning above 50% steadily made the clouds denser as you would hope... Below 25% I'm not sure that I could get any visible vapor, and I'm not sure that I even should, having that threshold could be a good thing? Being able to finish at 80% was nice today, but yeah the body sure got hotter than before and I imagine battery life is suffering too. I need to compare more directly with Zig and Zen, but like I said hard to be sure. They both still do better heat soaked, double edged sword of this larger more complex heater when compared to Milaana, but again if you put at max they can perform similarly on demand.

    So with that said, yes my max seems underpowered too, compared to what I am used to, but again I need to keep testing I think. Definitely don't feel comfortable one way or the other and do not want to add extra work for RBT (or be without this little wonder just yet either) when it is just as likely his tests show it is operating normally as it should... Will be curious to see what happens with yours, I'm sure others will be too, its a shame this thread isn't the most active with detailed useage reports like it used to be, made testing and comparing more effective and fun too!
     
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  18. AJS

    AJS Calm Consistency

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    My hot Milaana got to combustion temps worhin 5 seconds or so. My Zion on max is pretty much the same just takes a bit longer to get started cuz of the larger heater ... like 1st gear compared to second. One will go faster but takes a bit longer cuz of the larger gear. I have a video on Instagram of me starting from completely cold with 0 prep work on the herb or the Zion
    Found it. This was 80% https://instagram.com/p/BanRkD7gTYU/

    I have thought heavily about this too!
    Ima open my own business of Zion comparison testing. My clientele is a very short number ... and never growing ... but I'll find a way to succeed!

    Also ... the longer I had my Zion and the dirtier my screens got .. the more consistently hot my Zion seemed to run. Maybe I'm crazy. Something to keep in mind at least.
     
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  19. Cl4ud3

    Cl4ud3 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks so much for that reply, it has more or less confirmed my suspicions about the unit. I was beginning to second guess myself and worry but on max a minute on that button wouldn't of produced combustion.

    Edit:- I should add both my Milaana's are the same as your hot running one, new battery I got to be careful but that is what I love about it, that instant burst of flavour and a full hit when I need.
     
  20. HD Springer

    HD Springer Well-Known Member

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    I feel it absolutely should have enough power to combust. Im pretty sure that during all our beta testing we discussed that the high end of power would be plenty hot enough to run concentrates or even combust flower. The wide open air flow doesn't help when trying to determine if it's running properly or not. I'm sure that's what the tape test is all about. This is all just me guessing because I have yet to try a production Zion.
     
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  21. muunch

    muunch hotboxing the cockpit

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    1,429
    Well now ya'll got me curious...

    Mine was in the batch that all the duds seem to be in. I haven't put in a ton of miles on my Zion, but ripping a bowl at 100% now and it behaves pretty similar to a Milaana. I much prefer Zion though, even at 100% it's much easier to modulate and the vapor is better imo
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017 at 6:04 PM
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  22. Cl4ud3

    Cl4ud3 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for all the replies, it's handy for gauging what the average should be :rockon:
     
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  23. AJS

    AJS Calm Consistency

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    2,198
    If anyone would like to use me for studies (please not sexually) I think my unit runs near flawlessly. At 0% I get no vapor but flavor. At 100% I get combustion. 30%-70% is my range for solid vapor.

    If anyone would like me to do a full sesh on a certain temp or 'time' and show the abv, or pull at 10% draw speed continuously throughout a hit at a certain temp, or do hits from cold on certain temps, anything I can to help, let me know! I can take vids and pictures or just describe experience. Anything to help the Zion team that helped me for nearly 2 years as I waited.
     
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  24. trout_fishing_in_america

    trout_fishing_in_america Active Member

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    @Dramma Lamma : do you feel like your extra airflow (air that flows when the bottom inlet is blocked) is contributing to the “too wide-open” airflow and “too weak/diffuse” heat that other users are describing?

    I did the test @Dramma Lamma described, covering the bottom inlet, and isolated the air as coming through the holes between the battery and electronic compartments, where the battery spring terminals are screwed into the bodies. There are 2 separate 1/4” wide gaps, maybe 1/8” tall, that I could get to whistle by pulling through an empty stem, with the bottom air inlet blocked.

    So I carved up two little shreds of a wine cork, fit them into the holes above the battery terminals, and my Zion is much happier now. I’d advise anyone having concerns/troubles with too much airflow, not enough heat, try some cork or tape over those holes on the top of the battery compartment, see if that does anything for you. it’s easily reversible, impermanent, and seemed to make a difference.
     
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  25. AJS

    AJS Calm Consistency

    Messages:
    2,198
    Did a full sesh at 50% while trying to remain as consistent as possible between hits for anyone who cares!
    Click to play YouTube Video


    P.S. I hate the big yellow "Discontinued" bar. I keep thinking shit is for sale on the classifieds :shrug::doh:
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017 at 9:45 PM
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