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Winterizing Rosin - Educate me please :)

Discussion in 'Concentrates' started by gunmetalshark, May 14, 2019.

  1. gunmetalshark

    gunmetalshark Glass Addict

    Messages:
    479
    Location:
    EU
    Good Morning FC :)

    Since i´ve alrdy done some testing with Rosin in ccell catridges i know that it does work
    but the problem is that the fats/lipids will seperate after time and gum up the coil, working with BHO/DEXSO/CO2 is no option for me so my intention is to get the stuff seperated from my Rosin via winterizing :)

    One of my fav. shops around now offers a winterizing kit but i just dont know how that works,
    and with that big bottles i just see a big mess and all the good stuff sticking somewhere on the glass lol...for real
    is there a bigger amount of rosin needed..? My intention would be to work with like 3-5g at a time ...?

    Anyone familar with the process that can educate me..?

    Here´s the link

    https://dabbing.de/produkt/winterizing-set/

    here via google translator..

    https://translate.google.com/transl...u=https://dabbing.de/produkt/winterizing-set/

    Thanks in advance :)
     
    Hogni likes this.
  2. PPN

    PPN Fleurs&Vapeur

    Messages:
    3,889
    Here my thoughts from my previous winterization:

    You mix your rosin with +90% ethanol put that in the freezer for some days (at least 24h) and dump it in the funnel which sits like on the product pic. The mix will be filtered through the fritted glass screen, the vacuum pump is here to fasten things I think. You will end with another solution of ethanol and winterized rosin, now let alcohol evaporate, scrap and you end with winterized rosin. Expect a smoother concentrates but the taste will be impacted, it will be not so tasty than before, your yield will be around 50-70% (30-50% loss it depends your strain).

    Personnaly I did the same using glass jars and coffee unbleached filters, but the filtering take some time (cause no pump and cause cold makes the solution slightly thicker) so I put the funnel (coffee filter for me) on the top of a glass jar in the freezer until everything was filtered to keep things cold enough. With the pump it's not doable but since you can fasten the filtering it's not an issue I think.

    Please, share your results and tell me if I'm mistaken... I'm trully not an expert on any way!
     
  3. Hackerman

    Hackerman User

    Messages:
    1,380
    Location:
    Out there
    Another thing you might try is to NOT winterize it and simply decarb it. I have not tried this yet but more than a few of the pro cart makers over at ICMag claim that they decarb their rosin first and it makes it suitable for carts without diluting it or winterizing it. I'm not sure if it's cooking the fats and lipids out during decarb or what. To decarb, I use a glass beaker and a hotplate. Heat at about 250F until the large bubbles stop.
     
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  4. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,044
    Looks like a good Buchner funnel set-up. These are a big help, because you can filter quickly with vacuum assist. You don't need a vacuum pump - a faucet aspirator is fine.

    Of course, if you're going to winterize, why not just do QWET from the beginning? The result should be identical, and you'll probably get a better yield.

    Decarbing probably would help with carts, because decarbed concentrate is sappy. You'll lose all of the terps and be left with hashy tasting sap. You'd probably get the best results doing both, if you don't mind losing most of the flavor and entourage effects.

    The beauty of working with alcohol is that you can always wash and combine the washes before evaporating. That way, you lose almost nothing.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
  5. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead High Standards

    Messages:
    4,908
    Location:
    The Full Spectrum
    The real key to rosin cartridges is to start with great hash. The pros just use hash rosin + jar tek. That's it. https://www.instagram.com/p/BvxGw1elLzC/

    All other methods will alter the rosin significantly.
     
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  6. gunmetalshark

    gunmetalshark Glass Addict

    Messages:
    479
    Location:
    EU
    Thanks for all the input mates, rly appriciate it


    @PPN

    How much alcohol did u use, just enough to get the rosin into a gooey liquid state or more like that it rly ompletly dissolves in it,
    i wonder since if i would take 5g rosin and mix that with say 5ml alc. (1:1) it still would be just an TINY amount and i fear most stuff would get lost sticking to the glass, fritt disc etc...?

    @Hackerman

    This would be pretty easy to try so i guess that wil be my next test but still as u also said i dont think u will get all those fats/lipids gone and am i not to sure if the outcome stays stable, but i wll def. try :)

    @Accept

    Good point u having there, will have to look in that also :) :)

    @invertedisdead

    Seems to me would be the best solution since u can keep most of the terpenes and dont have to use any solvent,
    but the whole procedure still frightens me..i have 5g of trim kief...maybe ill do a soft test with that and see how much better
    /less lipids i get of that vs. whole flower !

    Have a nice day all together ! :)
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
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  7. PPN

    PPN Fleurs&Vapeur

    Messages:
    3,889
    I would suggest a 10:1 ratio in order to dissolve rosin completely. Before filtering and after freezing the jar shows a precipitate in the bottom and is more clear in surface, filtering will remove this "precipitate" (waxes).

    The duration in the freezer or the temp in the freezer is very important, the lower is the temp, the shorter is the time to let your jar in (not less than 24h or until you see this precipitate).

    Although I'm not an expert and only did that a few times mainly with reclaim in order to get a more "vapable" reclaim.

    Jar tech seems nice to get a sappy product but will not help to improve the longlife of your coils since you don't remove any waxes here. Although the Ccell carts are cheap... but this days it might be nice to stop to use and trash things, that's why I still love my Hercule SR-74!
     
  8. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,044
    It actually works as advertised, if a little fussy to use.

    Great old thread on dry sift QWET. Are you set up to purge? You'll need to with winterizing, unless you want to purge/decarb at the same time.
     
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  9. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead High Standards

    Messages:
    4,908
    Location:
    The Full Spectrum
    The entire plant is coated in epicuticular waxes, so pressing hash over flower can reduce the lipid content considerably.

    You could winterize rosin into an absolute, and even decarb, but you'll likely need to add terpenes to reach the appropriate viscosity. Some winterized oils can taste pretty good to me though, its just unfortunate to lose those cannabis terpenes and have to approximate the starting material with vegetable terps.

    IMO we can't expect to get the same lifetime out of rosin or sauce in a Ccell as using ultra refined distillate regardless. One or two fills is probably all you get. I love these prefilled carts though cause I think they are the best solution out for true microdosing. Living in a legal market however, I find my DIY attempts lacking compared to the best cartridges I can purchase. I don't think these carts are even really that hard to do, it's just one of those things that's tricky without the appropriate gear. That said, I think the appropriate gear in this case is really high grade hash, which I don't really have access to, even in my rec legal market.
     
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  10. shredder

    shredder Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,468
    I'm finding pressing older brown buds into rosin makes for a much cleaner rosin. So far it's just a limited sampling, 2 batches, and about 20 grams, but it looks promising. The rosin still has good taste but with less terpenes as when fresh, however smoother from less choraphyil.

    I think fresh terpenes hold dissolved waxes and that wax doesn't squeeze out as readily on older buds. Just a theory. But combine that with jar tech and you might be on to something.
     
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  11. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead High Standards

    Messages:
    4,908
    Location:
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    Possibly the waxes are drying out and desiccating as the material cures? I've read that as being a potential factor.
     
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  12. shredder

    shredder Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,468
    I've been using a saionara for vaping lately. Normally I change the donut coil daily as they get dirty.

    With this rosin from old buds it takes about 4 days before they get dirty. Less clean up on my Halo as well.

    Something is going on. The rosin seems smoother too. Not that it was bad, but it's like going from cheap booze to the good stuff.
     
  13. ChooChooCharlie

    ChooChooCharlie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    962
    Saw this winterization topic thread, OutCo doesn't do that step

    https://outco.com/blogs/culture/cle...f-extraction-misrepresent-the-cannabis-flower

    Very low THC % compared to the distilled oil carts, but ... yum!!

    Very thick, dark, doesn't look like it would work, but ... yum!!

    And work they do, while being true to taste, especially on exhale. Took opportunity to buy an ounce on clearance for $110, looks like same harvest for both. Very reassuring

    [​IMG]

    Feel a bit cheated at end of cart, see thin clinging dark spots around inside. But, think of it like q-tip waste from dabbing?
     
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  14. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead High Standards

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    4,908
    Location:
    The Full Spectrum
    With co2 extraction you can extract the terpenes before extracting the cannabinoids - this allows you to add them back in at the end to get a viscosity thin enough to use in a cart. Co2 is really unique in the results you can achieve with different parameters.
     
  15. gunmetalshark

    gunmetalshark Glass Addict

    Messages:
    479
    Location:
    EU
    I have some stuff that´s been curing for several months now, i will give that a try aswell. :)
    I wanted to give the kief press a try yesterdy but the 2 times i attempted i always stopped because i dont want to use all my precious so long collected kief :rofl:

    (It is just like 5g cuz i can just collect what my trimbin gets me after trimming my buds)
     
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  16. me2

    me2 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    59
    to speed up the filtering, i put a coffee filter folded up a few times over the top of an iso bottle. i wrap a rubber band around that to hold it in place. then i squeeze the bottle to push the liquid thru the filter.
     
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  17. btka

    btka Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,106
    can someone tell me which jar tek technic is the best for doing carts...
    I have seen a lot of different techniques like putting the rosin in a jar and the in the oven until it bubbles... or only putting rosin on heat matts for one or two weeks... and how would you seperate the thca crystals from the terp portion later... as far as I understand you would use the terp portion for carts (or also the crystals?)... I would like to try jar tek method but do not want to waste material...

    also I thought if you use pg or peg or so for carts theoretically you could freeze this solution (pg should not freeze like alcohol I think) and the fats and lipids will freeze and so you could filter them... but I would like not to use pg or peg or mct or bought terps...
     
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  18. Heisenburger

    Heisenburger Member

    Messages:
    18
    I have been on this quest for months, and have managed to winterize with 91% IPA which left me with something dense and red that closely resembles distillate. I mixed a gram of it with 8 drops of terps and it was the most potent and tasty thing I've ever had in a cart. A few friends sampled it and immediately asked me for one. The cart lasted nearly a week, however it took a half oz of flower and some expensive terps to produce.

    My current solution, which requires far less work and expense, is to make a diluent of 2 drops terpenes per 1 ml of PEG400. I mix this at a ratio of .5 ml diluent per 1 g concentrate over low heat, then let it cool down and further dilute with PG (usually another .3 ml or so) until it is sufficiently runny, then I load it into my Aspire AVP pod. I use naked-pressed rosin without winterizing because coil gunking isn't an issue, they are meant to be changed periodically.
     
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  19. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead High Standards

    Messages:
    4,908
    Location:
    The Full Spectrum
    Found a little vid showing how they make their vape oil, cool stuff! Just co2 extracted cannabis terpenes reintroduced to strain specific co2 extracted wax.
    https://www.instagram.com/p/BpDD1Znno6w/
     
  20. gunmetalshark

    gunmetalshark Glass Addict

    Messages:
    479
    Location:
    EU
    So i finally did the squish with my kief and kinda like expected it didnt run too well,
    i guess its mostly because i use my trim tray with alrdy dry herb and a 200micron mesh i collect much more plant mater
    then u would normally do so my return was just 20%...kinda like if i press normal bud :lol:

    Where i also lost much is the bag techniquei guess..tried double bagging with 37/120 micron but feel the 120 was too big so there is alsoa good amount left in it...

    Anyway to not derail further then i alrdy did, will try get that stuff into ccell carts (should be good enuf for 2)
    and see if there is a good amount less lipids/fats inside.
     
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  21. gunmetalshark

    gunmetalshark Glass Addict

    Messages:
    479
    Location:
    EU
    So my experiment went on like it started...not too well :lol:
    Got my new empty ccells in and mixed my kief rosin with 10% flavorless terps.
    after that i filled it into the carts...i let it then sit/soak for 24h and tested with my pen,
    tastes burnt and is very very dark and not liquid enuf :(

    Some strains are def. more suitable but this kief mix was/is def. not,
    i now ordered 37micron bags and will wait for a strain that stays gooey/sappy on its on to start with,
    all the stuff that turns solid or at least nearly wont get liquid enuf with terps in my observations...damn and for 30/35 bucks
    a cart i dont even know if it pays off doing my own ones...problem rly is the availability here in the EU :/

    The scorpion420 cartsi was able to snag in BCN are night and day in comparison to my selfmade ones :rofl:
     
  22. Heisenburger

    Heisenburger Member

    Messages:
    18
    The burnt taste is a dry hit from not getting enough flow to the heating element. Decarbing it some will make it less viscous and might help, otherwise you'll need more terps.
     
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  23. gunmetalshark

    gunmetalshark Glass Addict

    Messages:
    479
    Location:
    EU
    Yeah, i think so too...its the same taste i expirienced after my first carts that i didnt let soak over night,
    i had some other rosin that went very well with 10% terps but that was way more sappy to start with...the kief rosin was pretty solid but after warming it up i thought it would be liquid enuf and would stay that way with the added terpsbut that was not the case :(

    i
     
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  24. Mark

    Mark John Brown

    Messages:
    208
    I made a video guide on how to winterize rosin.
    Click to play YouTube Video





    Step 1: Take your rosin and place it into a glass container.

    Step 2. Add ethanol to the container. I am using everclear. A ratio of 1:10 or 1:20 is suggested. I used a 1:10 ratio.

    Step 3: Lightly heat, and stir the mixture until the rosin is dissolved.

    Step 4: Freeze the mixture for ~12 hours to allow the fats and waxes to separate.

    Step 5: Pull into syringe and filter using syringe filter.

    Step 6: Evaporate the last of the alcohol.

    Step 7: Gather the now winterized rosin and you're done!
     
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  25. Mark

    Mark John Brown

    Messages:
    208
    Although when making carts, I find this method to be preferable, as the rosin can still be claimed to be solventless:

    Click to play YouTube Video
     
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