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Vape Temp Profile Charts

Discussion in 'Vaporization Discussion' started by stickstones, Nov 29, 2017.

  1. Used2use

    Used2use Sometimes to stupid to become a fool

    Messages:
    472
    A practical example would be a solar collector, at some level of mass flow throigh the system the heat yield goes down if increased bc the flow gets more turbulence
    - so just increasing the flow to overpower a heater doesnt work necessary, it depends on diameter and material and form...
    That is also a possible explanation for airflow related difference in abv - imagine only the flow line in the middle of the bowl is fast enough to be turbulent and the side layers stay laminar...
     
    KeroZen likes this.
  2. Alexis

    Alexis Peace keeper, fun maker and 3/4 time vaporist.

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    I concur, this is indeed true for the XL Herborizer (which I am hitting right now in said style with some lovely invigorating Think Different sativa)!

    A faster harder pull as the draw goes on really pumps up the vapor and milks the can.
    However, it is still possible to overwhelm the heater by starting out the draw too suddenly and and fast, and especially if that high speed of inhalation is kept constant.

    I have seen this this error with pretty much all vapes, when newbies or combusters hit it.
    They are so convinced deep down that this vaporizer (any) will not give them satisfaction...
    Unless... they can take the biggest, most manly, rapid monstrous draw.

    They naively think that they can compensate for the "weakness" (in their minds) of the vaporizer by hitting as hard as humanly possible!:lol:

    Result- no vapor generation due to too much of a sudden, rapid AND sustained rate of inhalation. Then they conclude that vapor is weak compared to smoke. I have seen this honestly, and had to explain the basics of draw technique.

    With the XL it still helps to start off steady until vapor is forming, then you can pull as hard as you like and it packs out fast. I just did it myself, I got the hugest hit by inhaling really fast when vapor was flowing. A huge increase from the faster draw. Only a 0.2 load as well, setting 7 (200°C) yet- monstrous clouds!
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
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  3. The Beagle

    The Beagle Butanist Bubblemaker

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    Yep I agree, a slow, steady draw to start the vapor production followed by the hardest pull your lungs can afford will give you crazy thick hits.
     
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  4. Stu

    Stu Maconheiro Staff Member

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    Here is a temp chart of the Crafty that I just ran at 185°C.

    [​IMG]

    I think Storz & Bickel did a pretty nice job with their design of the Crafty/Mighty by minimizing the heat in the chamber before/between draws.

    Bonus boring video of the test:

    Click to play YouTube Video


    I thought that I was in frame of the IR camera during the draws, but sadly it was angled to the right too much to catch the Crafty in action (which was my plan). :doh:

    :peace:
     
  5. stickstones

    stickstones Vapor concierge

    Messages:
    12,012
    Nice @Stu ! Was that with a direct pack? I did my Mighty test with a dosing capsule and got less of a temp drop. I’ve been meaning to compare with and without a dosing capsule. Thx!
     
  6. Alexis

    Alexis Peace keeper, fun maker and 3/4 time vaporist.

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    Location:
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    Just to say guys, testing my GS with rdk-200. I definitely see the temp on the controller go up by 2 or 3°F with a fast draw.

    The FPSH- controller temps dropped 10 °F or more during hits, until bowl picks up heat of course.

    I have yet to see the temp go down during a GS hit, but I hvent been keeping my eye on it exactly. The controller needs an extension cable. The GS heater lead is quite long and very pliable too, the auber isn't next to it though to watch.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
  7. Stu

    Stu Maconheiro Staff Member

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    Yes, that was a direct pack, medium grind, full but not packed.
    That makes sense. The dosing capsule will retain heat longer than the herb. Imagine dumping ABV into your hand right after a hit versus dumping a dosing capsule into your hand right after a hit.

    :peace:
     
  8. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead trance-form

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    Location:
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    Are you using the same controller for the GS that you used for the FP?

    I notice the same temp drop when using my FP, I honestly don't understand it. It seems to me like a properly functioning PID should start compensating for temp drop, as soon as it notices a reduction the heater should kick in.
     
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  9. Alexis

    Alexis Peace keeper, fun maker and 3/4 time vaporist.

    Messages:
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    No mate I got the auber rdk-200 for the GS. Jojo was suggesting auber originally, the Newvape approved Vapecode controller I got for the FP won't work with the GS, unless Jojo MacGuyvers an inbetween solution.

    Blame Edwyn, Lol! The rdk I prefer anyway. Much prefer the dial. Go slow or fast, easier on the thumbs. I couldn't believe the standard ones only go 10° a time or something, then jump 100.

    I like the auber better so far.
     
  10. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead trance-form

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    Dammit I forgot all about the pinouts being different AGAIN! @Morty I'm on a roll this week! :lol:
    I wonder if the PID settings are just tuned better in the Auber devices? It seems like the temp drop could be adjusted in the settings, but I've had a peek online at configuring these controllers and I must say my interest was halted, as I'm not much for oscillatory algorithmic programming! :rofl:

    The rotary dial does seem nice, I wish the Vapecode controller moved in 5 degree increments instead of 1 degree increments, would be much quicker to navigate and would be "close enough" to find a sweet spot.
     
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  11. Stu

    Stu Maconheiro Staff Member

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    Here's a vape temp chart of the Supreme V3. Apologies for being such a busy chart, but I wanted to make it self-explanatory.

    [​IMG]

    I probably should've gone up to a higher temp, but force of habit makes me stop the torch when it hits 165°C.

    The thermocouple measuring inside stem temps made getting a good seal with the bubbler difficult/impossible, so a slight air leak was present during the draws.

    Obligatory boring video:
    Click to play YouTube Video


    :peace:
     
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  12. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

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    Location:
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    is "Temp Outside Stem" measuring where you are apply the torch? is this the hottest part of the heater?

    the red going above green (second and third draws) defies logic.
     
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  13. Stu

    Stu Maconheiro Staff Member

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    "Temp Outside Stem" is the measurement at the point the SV3's temp sensor is located, so no it's not the hottest part of the heat exchanger by a longshot. It seemed the most useful measurement to take as it's the reading that the LCD would read out to the user. My thermometer's lead is the yellow one and you can see the unit's t/c next to it with the clear/whitish wires.

    [​IMG]

    Coincidentally, my SV3's thermometer decided that today was a good day to die. It wasn't necessary for the test as I was already measuring the same spot, but a bummer nonetheless...

    Yeah, I agree that seems weird. But at the end of the day, they are just two measurements at given points of the aluminum puzzle. Perhaps the draw of air transferring energy from the top to bottom portions could account for it? :shrug: The red is measuring the inside where the hot air is flowing, while the green is on the outside, not so quickly affected by the goings on inside the stem.

    :peace:
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  14. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

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    well, i think it is the genius design of the heat exchanger - to have so much heat left so long after removing the torch, after 3 hits.

    we need a sensor readout on the hottest part - where the torch hits the aluminum.
     
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  15. Used2use

    Used2use Sometimes to stupid to become a fool

    Messages:
    472
    there is nothing to program, classic system theory a few steps trough the laplace room and jump back to reality...
    That would require in this case measuring additional to the temp(output value) the power consumption (input value) of the enail in one graph, then it would be possible to optimize the PID values for one personal draw style with one specific setup/system - if the system changes the PID values will too
     
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  16. Winegums

    Winegums I make things from wood Accessory Maker

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    Does anyone have an Herbalizer and can do some tests? I'm kinda curious if the halogen bulb is really keeping up with draw rate regardless of changes in speed. For a vapourist it would be a really interesting chart but from a visual stand point it might (hopefully) be very boring.
     
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  17. Alexis

    Alexis Peace keeper, fun maker and 3/4 time vaporist.

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    @stickstones hi there. I just wanted to suggest 2 vapes which I feel would be interesting to get some sort of readings for, if it is at all possible- the Herborizer Ti, and the Woodscents?

    Maybe the Ti is easier? Im sure you will know if it possible anyway.
     
    The Beagle likes this.
  18. stickstones

    stickstones Vapor concierge

    Messages:
    12,012
    I can run all those. Just need to get back to the bench.
     
  19. Alexis

    Alexis Peace keeper, fun maker and 3/4 time vaporist.

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    Thanks man you are awsome big respect.:tup: In your own good time. With the Herbo Ti I think it would be really interesting to take measurements with and without a heat soak, on same and different settings.

    The Ti is seen by some as being disadvantaged in that it apparently performs better, or at least differently, with a full bowl heat soak.

    Users have found that they could drop their regular temp setting from 6 down to 5, by heat soaking the bowl, and get equal results with better flavor.

    So I would test the same settings with and without heat soaking, and then different settings, like 5 or 6 without a heat soak, and then 4 or 5 with respectively.

    I think 5 to 6 is where the majority of Ti users will sit. Some go higher though, at least up to 7.
     
    stickstones likes this.
  20. rokko

    rokko Member

    Messages:
    10
    Can someone measure Xmax Starry chamber temperature?
     
  21. Stu

    Stu Maconheiro Staff Member

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  22. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

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    Location:
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    @Stu - another temp probe is needed - add one in the middle of the herb ... looks like convection to me.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
    Stu likes this.
  23. Stu

    Stu Maconheiro Staff Member

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    Sorry, I should've explained the experiments set up better. The bottom chart's green line is a temp probe in the middle of the herb. The top chart's green line was measuring the cup temp only. I explained it better in the original post in the heater tech thread.

    :peace:
     
  24. Stu

    Stu Maconheiro Staff Member

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    Not terribly exciting but here is a chart of an Underdog heating up. This was with a voltage setting of 11.67.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    :peace:
     
  25. Andreaerdna

    Andreaerdna If God is the answer, then the question is wrong

    Messages:
    895
    Please @Stu, when you have time, I would love to see temp evolution inside the stem (glass one) while hitting a 12v log like UD and the AC log like enano
     
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