too much of a good thing? Cannabis and Schizophrenia

[budballer]

Hey FC, I'm not a daily vaper or heavy user, but I do have my binges from time to time. I feel like I'm going to get ripped head to toe for bringing this up. But is heavy continual use of marijuana a cause of Schizophrenia? I've been reading a lot of potential mental health effects and even some supposed "self" accounts of depression, bi-polar disorder, and Schizophrenia caused by what the user thinks to be their weed usage. However each person who stated they had problems usual had been smoking Atleast once daily for over 10 years. It makes me wonder is all. Could it be underlying problems that smoking marijuana brings out in the subconscious? Or maybe some people just shouldnt smoke. I know personally I am in a great mood for the next few days after I smoke, but like I said I'm not too frequent. I guess what I'm coming down too is all this talk of why weed is bad, it causes this and that blah blah. Well I'm just saying all of those tests done and statistics are showing up pretty much only on very heavy and long time users without a lot of self control. So yes weed is bad, but so is McDonald's lol. I'm not gonna eat micky D's 3 times a day and not expect to develop some adverse health effects.. given how bad some very commonly taken substances can be on the body I'd say weed has a very light health toll. Am I right here though? Marijuana isnt bad in moderation I'd like to believe. Too much of anything is bad. Simple as that. So far every test of why weed is bad over long term is only taken from heavy users who report problems. The one not having problems are just living life happy not telling anyone cause there's no reason too. So is it only we hear about people with negative reactions? Since those with positive reactions have no reason to tell people really. All this weed is bad/its harmless stuff is just so confusing I love weed. But I don't want to develop poor judgement and even Schizophrenia long term.. sorry for such a long write up. Pretty much went stream of conciousness on my phone, can't sleep lol. So what do you guys think?

 

[Carbon]

I am of the belief that cannabis can exacerbate underlying emotional or mental illnesses and issues. This can be both a positive and negative as it may allow one to more deeply realize ones issues but also cause suffering in the moment, whether one can address them or not.

For me it is all about moderation. I have used cannabis daily in the past and it completely lost its positives. I was a zombie and the flowers just didn't have the same effect that they once had. Smoking/vaping hash got me where regular flowers had once gotten me. Now I am just the occasional user. It is more effective and more positive this way.

 

[budballer]

It seems to be that way with a lot of things. I guess I'm just trying to prove that weed isn't that bad at all. However over using anything isn't good. Hell even taking too much vitamin c in a day makes you feel sick.. I just wasn't sure whether to believe all of this medical research that my doctor originally brought up. But when I did a little digging it seems only long term negative effects develop when someone over uses it. Maybe its just a matter of keeping myself at the wanting point, and not to the point of needing it.

 

[tdavie]

Maybe its just a matter of keeping myself at the wanting point, and not to the point of needing it.

Don't see why someone shouldn't 'need' it. A lot of people here use it as medicine....all day, every day.

regards

Tom

 

[budballer]

Well on that respect, true. But I don't haha

 

[gettin lifted]

i remember seeing a documentary about how thc alone can cause serious issues in a lot of people. you need to have those other cannaibinoids. all depends which temp you vaporize at.

 

[caseball2051]

I call shenanigans.

MJ shouldn't be used as a scapegoat for mental disease or illness which each case linked to someone with MJ use, there are undoubtedly underlying causes for illness.

 

[lwien]

I wonder what the percentage is of cannabis users that use cannabis to self-medicate to treat some underlying mental or emotional issues that they themselves may not even be aware of?

 

[djonkoman]

well possibly weed can trigger psychosis and/or earlier onset of schizophrenia in those already sensitive to it

altough so far I haven't seen conclusive data on this, I did heart from a statistics study in brittain, where they concluded that if this relation is true(the research doesn't say if this relatio is actually true or not), that a lot(I don't remember how many, I think a few 1000 but don't pin me down on that) to prevent a single case of schizophrenia

the amount of schzophrenics among stoners is indeed a little higher then among the regular population, but it's still a minority and for as far as I know it isn't sure yet what came first, the weeduse or the schizophrenia(it's possible that people with starting schizophrenia conscieusly or unconscieusly selfmedicate against the symptoms of their schizophrenia)
I have read an article that they found higher levels of endocannabinoids in the spines of people with a psychosis, but in that article the suggestion was that that was a attrempt of the body to counteract the psychosis

it is true that thc alone is considered psychotic, but cbd is anti-psychotic

to conclude, I think you should avoid weed(and other psycho-active substances) if you know you are sensitive to psychosis or other similar mental ilnesses, but if you're not I shouldn't worry too much about it, it's not like everyone who smokes weed becomes schizophrenic
as for general overdoing it, that really depends on the person, some people can't function if they're high everyday and for those people it would be harmfull, but others(like me) have no trouble functioning high(altough I still keep it within my own free time)

 

[weedemon]

I like to think I use weed medicinally because there are many a night where i can't get a decent sleep. I just can't turn my brain off and stop thinking about the day/week/month... blah blah blah... on a side note though I find it much harder to remember any of my dreams after a day with consumption than a day without. (I'd like to know more about that one personally) also I can get pretty anxious when certain stresses come into play. Marijuana usually helps me out with that too.

well I think that consuming marijuana opens up a dormant part of you mind. By dormant I simply mean that society as we know it today represses the "think for yourself" part of your brain. Schools we go to teach us how to memorize and regurgitate the right answer. I find it very uncommon to come across a teacher/peer who encourages you to think about it yourself and question current accepted truths. We much prefer to be right because "everyone knows it is" instead of having done the thinking ourselves and understanding it. Marijuana can get you thinking in ways you might not be able to normally. The stream of thought can take different paths to coming to conclusions.

I'm a daily user and have been for about a little over 10 years now. I had struggled with mental illness in the past, tried many different medications and let me tell you. It was not pills, but therapy that was able to help me turn things around. Now I realize that some people are chemically imbalanced to begin with, and for these people the drugs may work, but I think the vast majority of the world would benefit greatly by getting help to deal with their issues. People like the idea of an easy fix and just to take a pill and everything will be alright. Until people deal with the underlying cause you will not get better and the pills are a farce.

I wonder what the percentage is of cannabis users that use cannabis to self-medicate to treat some underlying mental or emotional issues that they themselves may not even be aware of?

totally man.

it is true that thc alone is considered psychotic, but cbd is anti-psychotic

as for general overdoing it, that really depends on the person, some people can't function if they're high everyday and for those people it would be harmfull, but others(like me) have no trouble functioning high(altough I still keep it within my own free time)

Yeah i find certain things require me to be sober, calculations, chemistry, physics etc... but then there are other things that go much better when baked. things that encourage creativity. also being baked for doing mundane things is better too. you get through it without noticing the time being spent on it. ex. doing dishes

 

[budballer]

Seems like general consensus is to each their own. Everyone reacts different to the things we put in our body. At this point I believe If serious negative side effects start to occur, ill stop, if not though... I'd like to keep enjoying my music to the fullest

 

[djonkoman]

I think the schizophrenia argument is also kind of ridiculous even if it is true, I bet that someone who is sewnsitive to it would also get a psychosis from drinking alcohol, and probably nobody would be surprised the alcohol could bring up a slumbering psychosis, and alcohol is still legal and I don't think that people getting psychosisses from it would change that(except if it was in huge numbers)
and even with such an obvious bad thing as tobacco(also in short term, my smokerfriends all have a bad condition, once I ran just a little bit, by far not as fast as I can and only 1-20 metres or so, and the friend I was with, who smokes a lot of tobacco about a pack of cigs a day wich is a lot IMO as a non-smoker, thought I had a very good condition, wich I do have but this didn't prove that)
if anything should be banned for healthreasons it should be tobacco

 

[lwien]

if anything should be banned for healthreasons it should be tobacco

Yup. Totally agree. But I don't think that any kind of banning of any substance has really worked. But what does make sense is to tax the fuck out of it to help defray some of the medical expenses that, more than likely, WILL occur down the line. I sure as hell shouldn't have to pay to help some dumbass stay alive because he willingly decided to slowly kill himself. And this is coming from someone who used to smoke 3 packs a day a very long time ago.

 

[budballer]

Good argument guys. I really dont see where all the hate on marijuana comes from.. so far the only people against it either have never given it a chance, or just had a flat out bad initial experience unfortunately. Makes me so mad! If only a politician had the balls to support it and not just worry about re election. It's a shame, I know this is a little off topic but they claim marijuana ruins lives. God this is SO wrong. What ruins lives is the fact that the governments of the world act against good people who happen to like a natural growing herb.. me for example. My life was great, I was real happy, till I was arrested for this bull. T wasn't weed, it was the government that screwed me. Am I crazy cause I can't wait to be off probation now? lol everyone makes me think I'm a criminal, I'm a good person, lol. I feel bad for anyone else who may have fallen into a similar situation. I understand the feeling. My frustration is a big part of why i created this thread. Thanks for all your input guys. Love FC

 

[GreenLeaf]

If you have schizophrenia or some other mental disorder or mental illness then yes smoking pot may make it worse or bring it out.

 

[budballer]

Well some people claim to have no history of schizophrenia in there family and develop it, blaming it on weed. However 1) maybe its the introduction of all the new toxins in our environment over the past 40 years and 2) maybe it was a dormant problem in the family all along.

 

[charliedontsurf]

So yes weed is bad, but so is McDonald's lol.?

Mama said, don't eat fast food.

 

[herbgirl]

Very interesting topic. I self medicate multiple times daily (and take a lot of other non pharmaceutical steps too) for Bipolar disorder, have for years. I've always been concerned that it could potentially trigger schizophrenia (family history - but the two disorders are related), but the studies seem to bear out that it MAY trigger it in CERTAIN individuals. May exacerbate it in CERTAIN people. That CERTAIN factor is yet to be determined. is it heredity(have we been GMO'd lol)? chemical makeup (or exposure for that matter)? dietary (Mcdonalds is poison!)? environmental(so is our air)? we really don't know.

My research bears out that the rest of us should be fine

If you are really worried, familiarize yourself with the symptoms of schizophrenia and watch for them, speak to your doctor. Use common sense and you'll be fine

 

[lwien]

Herbgirl,

I have to tip my hat to you. Mental illness/disorders have been such a taboo subject over the years. Most of those that are afflicted will try very hard to keep it secret from the world because of the stigma. You, on the other hand, discuss it openly, and not only do I find that refreshing, but commendable as well with one of the primary reasons being that your discussions here may prove to be invaluable to some who may be in the same situation, or has a relationship with someone who is.

My mother was bipolar along with having a narcissistic personality disorder but was in a constant state of total denial about it and lived her life never seeking any treatment for it. The affect on our family was devastating.

Again, hats off to you for openly shedding some light on all this.

/salute

 

[Cleanfiend]

I have BiPolar II Disorder. I am troubled with the leap to causation when looking at marijuana usage and mental health/personality disorders.

I used MJ for 6 years before I started having my first manic episodes, though I was plagued with depression and anxiety for years. Some are quick to look at the correlation and suggest causation.
I also drank orange juice daily for the years leading up to my manic episodes -- yet we do not suggest causation when looking at how orange juice usage preceded my Bipolar.

I have read elsewhere (unsure of the source) that the incidence of Bipolar patients who also use marijuana is around 40% of the Bipolar population. Obviously, this number is many times greater than that of the general population -- but does this suggest MJ as a catalyst or as an effective treatment option for mental health disorders? Interesting to ponder....

 

[lwien]

I also drank orange juice daily for the years leading up to my manic episodes -- yet we do not suggest causation when looking at how orange juice usage preceded my Bipolar.

Yeah, but one important difference. Orange juice is not known for being a hallucinogenic. Any substance that has the ability to alter ones perceptions of reality should not be classified in the same category as orange juice, especially when considering how it can affect one that may have a predisposition to a mental illness.

 

[herbgirl]

lwein, thanks for the props I hope to help someone by sharing.
OP, please forgive me for hijacking
mental illness should not be taboo (is cancer? or diabetes?) and that is partially why I am so open with my experiences. so many suffer in silence when there is help. I am also fortunate to have a husband who loves me unconditionally and is willing to help (me) understand my condition.
I, myself have just begun to understand my illness. It is who I am and, like a good little girl, for years i tried to mask it because i was told it was a problem. "Very bright but has trouble focusing" was the theme of my childhood/adolescence, aside from the hospital admissions from suicide attempts due in part to pharmaceuticals that were given to me for the 'trouble focusing' part. I believe this was also the tipping point where my 'clinical depression - ADHD' dx went out the window and morphed into Bipolar. But, according to the docs, it was the cannabis that started the problem (even though i didn't start using it till my teens, mx 1st DX was at maybe 11) even though i told them that it seemed to help level me out without the side effects of the paxil/zoloft/wellbutrin/trazadone/serazone/lithium. Still they told me the cannabis was the problem and 'here try another pill'. They also knew that there is a family history of schizophrenia, 15-20 years ago it was "FACT" at Sheppard Pratt that cannabis caused or triggered bipolar, schizophrenia, multiple personality disorder, etc, so this was standard treatment protocol.

I'm sometimes dramatic and weepy, and sometimes driven and impulsive, but I am a law abiding citizen, a damn good parent and a loving wife. Fortunately, my disorder is not severe enough (currently at least - bipolar is very dynamic and can change in an instant) that it has caused me to spend excessively, or cut myself or do any of the other really self destructive behaviors that severe bipolar can cause.
I can function fine most of the time, a rare (or so you would think) person with bipolar who has managed to rein in the condition without using pharmaceuticals better than with them. We all have our quirks and this is mine.

I almost look at my bipolar as a gift now, my creativity blossoms when i am in a mania, and I've found that I can usually influence my manics, like i will do this evening to make my son's birthday cake. I will stay up most of the night with creative energy flowing to make this cake, icing and fondant from scratch and then decorate it to look like a light saber. It will take me ten or fifteen HOURS, but i will have laser focus the whole time. It's like taking 'the zone' to a whole different level. I don't get hungry or have to take any breaks - hubby reminds me that I need them but sometimes i am physically/psychologically unable to stop, the drive is that powerful. I could never even attempt something like that dulled on pills. The important part is to ensure that i care for myself properly afterwords, because i do crash. Sleep hygiene, good diet, exercise, remembering to take my supplements are crucial to my 'recovery'.

I'd totally believe a good 40% of bipolar individuals can benefit from cannabis. I know at least three people who have very similar experiences with it as a mood regulator. The important thing to remember is that it is not a stand alone treatment, it is a compliment to a healthy lifestyle and only a part of the whole treatment IMO

 

[budballer]

herbgirl, you really sound like an amazing person and made me feel 10x better about my own situation. Thank you so much. I wish more people could hear what you have to say in all honesty. I was moved.

 

[Lo]

+1,000 - I love Herbgirl

 

[lwien]

+1,000 - I love Herbgirl

Yeah, but she made me go out and buy an electric kettle and a bunch of loose leaf teas. And yeah, I enjoy the hell of them, but that's besides the point.