Discontinued ThermoVape

[OF]

Sorry, guys, I hope you don't think everyone thinks like you do.

I don't see how VS's observations or opinions are any better or worse than anyone else. Perhaps more 'newbish' if you want, maybe even times 10 or so (although I'm not sure it 10 independent opinions?).

If he's open to trying other techniques, and it seems he is, give him some space to do that? And when he has a 'final answer' for us, we should, I think, temper that with the understanding that his needs and perspectives might differ from ours. It is not a party vape, for instance.

That's the advice, cut the man some slack, I don't really think he's the enemy?

OF

 

[t-dub]

No, not an enemy by ANY means, but he passes himself off as an "EXPERT". He posts here as a retailer/consultant and therefore has a higher standard for conduct than an amateur. I'm all for cutting the guy some slack as well, but he shouldn't have posted a "PROFESSIONAL" review before his work was done. I still SUSPECT that he utilized techniques in the video that he KNEW failed previously with the device and if this is true . . . then his video goes from "review" to "hatchet job".

Edit: I'm sorry but if in my 10+ years with Lexus I had performed as a professional consultant like vs has here . . . I would have been thrown out on my ear, instantly.

Edit: I patiently await, with deep interest, vs's response.

 

[mephisto]

You are right, OF. He did seem quite open to adjusting his technique, etc. I echoed the words of another
due to my "loyalty" to the TV. I hear by cut all due slack to the Vapor Spot. They do present a viable
test area for new vapes. If I had known and watched their review of the AR, I probably would not have
dropped the coin on a turd....

As the saying goes..."It is better to be thought a fool, and remain silent. Then to speak, and remove
all doubt'"

 

[sessnet]

EDIT: Anyone has the right to give their opinion of a product on youtube. However, as an expert in a field, it's your responsibility to be fair and do research on a product, and show it in a neutral light. I do not believe that was the case with the video review of the ThermoVape.

 

[OF]

Good points, guys, but remember 'expert' is subjective. What if he really does sit at a 'vape bar' night after night? I maintain the local bartender becomes an expert of sorts, perhaps not WRT to the church set or even the 'common man', but at least for the customers he knows.

There's a lot of ground between the guys snorting cognac and sampling fine single malts on one end and those of us slamming down boilermakers at the other. Bet I can find experts of sorts at both ends. Maybe he just hangs with a different bunch?

We have a very popular TV accessory for concentrates, the Revolution. A hot rod version of the also very popular Omicron if you will. Both are maligned by the serious oil heads with their torches, nails and skillets. I won't even consider them not expert, just not my sort of expert.

Bottom line is I see the guy as a potential resource on many fronts. He's already saved some guys a bunch of bucks on the AR misadventure. Over time we may need to learn to temper what he says with 'yeah, but he's an LA .... and you know what they're like', but I still think it's useful to listen and not chase him off with name calling?

OF

Edit: Sorry, forgot to sign.....

 

[t-dub]

Who called him what name OF? If I have violated forum rules PLEASE REPORT ME AT ONCE.

 

[Bluntcrush]

yo tdub...i wish you could sample some more vapes for flava! come to the bar if in LA and i"ll gladly show you the VIP treatment...I just have a lot of vapes here at the bar to test drive. Hope to share the good, bad, and ugly of all of them...not hating...just participating..

Vaporspot, you post in this forum as a retailer and you claim to be an "expert" in your field. If this is your response, gansta rap (What are you going to do? Fly your private jet up here to bring me down to your "lounge" so I can party with you and your homies? I don't think so, ridiculous), then why should we "amateurs" put forth our time and effort to help you?

Speaking of time and effort. Vaporspot since you are an "expert" in your field: You own a vapor lounge and retail store, you consult with clientele on a regular basis, that makes you an expert.

call or email to schedule a VAPOR CONSULTATION when in Los Angeles.

So for you to be too lazy to do the "work" necessary for your "job" is quite telling. Instead you criticize a device that you didn't put the proper time and effort into adequately understanding. A disservice to people who trust you for "professional" advice. Your inability to see beyond your own needs and wants, IE outside yourself and your "lounge", makes you a poor consultant. I submit to you that my written "amateur" review was more even and fair and a better review than your "professional" video review.

we've had it for a couple days . . . (truncated) BTW, that wasn't the first time hitting that vaporizer on camera...we tried it at the bar with several clients over a couple of days..we do a standard 3, 5, 8 count when we review these things..check out the atmos Raw one we did to compare how we do it . . . (truncated) So overall it was too much WORK . . .

A question: I was reading your post about your "extensive" testing regimen, how many bowls did you put through your TV before you made that video? The reason I ask is because your video looked very similar to my "right-out-of-the-box" (no practice) experience. Is it possible that when you made your video "review" that you utilized techniques that you knew were previously unsuccessful with the device? Or was that really the best an "expert", with practice, could do?

I'm sorry but I see 3 options here after reading vaporspot's own words:

1. He either misrepresented the testing in his post, OR
2. He demonstrated techniques in his video that he KNEW were unsuccessful beforehand, AND/OR
3. He is intellectually too lazy to do the "work" required to do his "job" properly.

Sorry but as of now, that is how I see this situation.

Edit: I find it distasteful to have to come here and speak in terms such as this but the obvious lack of intellectual honesty and effort here, by a retailer/expert (higher standard than an amateur) required me to respond.

Edit: I again post a link to my original "amateur" review: http://www.fuckcombustion.com/viewtopic.php?pid=182928#p182928

I am all for giving someone a second chance and "cutting him some slack" but overall I would have to agree with my colleague t-dub here. I didn't feel it was a fair trial and I gathered from some of his subsequent posts that he loves him some Solo. To each his own...

I also believe that the low light and the already proven (non working) techniques were what VS relied on to "make his point" so to speak. This is a tough crowd, we hold members to a higher standard and for this I am quite proud.

THanks everyone for your most valuable contributions to this thread overall!!

 

[t-dub]

I also believe that the low light and the already proven (non working) techniques were what VS relied on to "make his point" so to speak. This is a tough crowd, we hold members to a higher standard and for this I am quite proud.

EDIT: Anyone has the right to give their opinion of a product on youtube. However, as an expert in a field, it's your responsibility to be fair and do research on a product, and show it in a neutral light. I do not believe that was the case with the video review of the ThermoVape.

Well said.

Edit: By both parties.

 

[WatTyler]

Who called him what name OF? If I have violated forum rules PLEASE REPORT ME AT ONCE.

lol, All due respect t-dub but I'm not sure it quite fits 'be nice', although I wouldn't report you for it It does seem a little like you don't agree with his opinion and way of using of the vape so you've effectively accused him of being either misleading, stupid or lazy, resulting in professional incompetence. That seems a wee bit strong over an opinion of a vaporiser.

I can kind of see where Vaporspot is coming from with some points after seeing pb's video next. This vape seems like there is a little a bit of work involved. I'm no longer prepared to count the seconds as I vape in order to carefully 'craft' a hit. A couple of years ago I was, but the market and my expectations have moved on somewhat. Nowdays I expect easy and I prefer to talk and ponder whilst I'm vaping, not count and concentrate. That's enough for a vape not to get someones recommendation, surely? It seems to me that and the taste were the things that left Vaporspot 'on the fence' personally and listening to his customers.

We needed more in use vids, and I'm really thankful to Vaporspot for sharing and prompting more uploads from others.

I don't know what the point would be of reviews in a neutral light? I don't want to watch them. I want the genuine personal opinions and recommendations of someone who knows about and uses lots of vaporizers.

Vaporspot, your videos would benefit from better lighting. Couldn't really see shit.

 

[OF]

I am all for giving someone a second chance and "cutting him some slack" but overall I would have to agree with my colleague t-dub here. I didn't feel it was a fair trial and I gathered from some of his subsequent posts that he loves him some Solo. To each his own...

I also believe that the low light and the already proven (non working) techniques were what VS relied on to "make his point" so to speak. This is a tough crowd, we hold members to a higher standard and for this I am quite proud.

THanks everyone for your most valuable contributions to this thread overall!!

Hey, I hope I never said it was a fair trial? In fact, I think if you check I pointed to a series of 'mistakes' that might help if changed (improving technique). That's exactly the point, I think, trying to get a 'fair trial' under the same conditions we are seeing so we can figure out why we seem to disagree about how well it works. It could well end up his goals are just too different from ours to match up?

I'm just suggesting we work with the guy a bit and see if a technique change will improve things rather than accuse him of being intellectually dishonest (using known bad technique), say he's tellin' us windys, promoting another agenda (not sure what that might be) or too lazy to read 1700 posts searching for clues.

Easier perhaps to simply shoot the messenger and be done with it, but IMO not better.

Otherwise, I agree, the experiment was poorly set up as I understand things. Bad experiment but not necessarily bad experimenter?

OF

 

[sessnet]

I'm sure a lot of people combusted and messed up their first few hits on an MFLB. I did for sure, when I got the PA.

However, if someone took a video review of them "messing up" or "not doing it right", does that really reflect anything good of the MFLB? What does it really reflect of the reviewer him/herself?

 

[OF]

I'm sure a lot of people combusted and messed up their first few hits on an MFLB. I did for sure, when I got the PA.

However, if someone took a video review of them "messing up" or "not doing it right", does that really reflect anything good of the MFLB? What does it really reflect of the reviewer him/herself?

Excellent point! Thanks for bringing it up.

The hardware doesn't change, but the software sure does vary a bit. I think the goal here is to collectively explore this complex beast. We're sure to drill some dry holes along the way. The idea is to keep at it and stay objective as I see it.

Thanks again, good point.

OF

 

[PB88123]

I can kind of see where Vaporspot is coming from with some points after seeing pb's video next. This vape seems like there is a little a bit of work involved. I'm no longer prepared to count the seconds as I vape in order to carefully 'craft' a hit. A couple of years ago I was, but the market and my expectations have moved on somewhat. Nowdays I expect easy and I prefer to talk and ponder whilst I'm vaping, not count and concentrate. That's enough for a vape not to get someones recommendation, surely? It seems to me that and the taste were the things that left Vaporspot 'on the fence' personally and listening to his customers.

I was counting seconds and mentioning how long it took to give people an idea what it takes to get a good hit. I do not even think about counting or shaking and just do it now.

Work
1. Grind
2. Load
3. Heat up for 8-10 seconds
4. Inhale
5. Inhale faster as it gets warmer
6. Let go of the switch and exhale
7. Shake or stir
Repeat steps 3-7 as many times as you want.

 

[theVaporSpot]

I WILL respond to some of this stuff later....
with science...with objective methods...and with no agenda except to share the knowledge...
BUT...
So while I HATE to have to defend myself on a forum intended to be "open discussion"

I AM an expert. I HAVE tried more vapes than you. (iolite and MFLB only? come on man") I DO have face to face vape sessions with a HUGE cross section of the community. I run and set up Vapor Bars for tasting competitions, trade shows, and just recently set up a Vapor Bar for the ASA and GLACA for their holdiday party. These are the people making the MMJ laws and access safe as well as a huge cross section of MMJ dispensaries here in LA. THEY seem to think of me as an expert in the field.
So YES, I do think my opinion ( and those of my bar patrons) should carry more weight then a few guys that only own a small cross section of devices to compare it to.

That being said in my defense...You guys seem to think that I wasn't able to get hits off of my Thermovape...We were getting hits..Just it took 15 seconds to get them..My video shows that it takes a long 14 second srag before it works. From the cold position of just picking it up and activating, its a 14 second drag, with a dance of heat application after that to not scorch or under cook the herbs. WE GET how it operates.

I looked at your amateur video on technique. I Think it makes my point of there being too much "work" involved with this vape for us to recommend. It's not a VAPOR CLARINET! Why can't I hold this device as I would naturally hold any other ecig? 10 seconds of heat BEFORE you tweezered 12 pinches into a bowl, THEN you start another 15 second draw? If you think this is how a good vape should work then you have lower expectations for a plus $200 device. We ARE elitists for flavor, and our expectations involve dropping herb into a chamber, hitting a button, and getting a hit. (No2 is cheaper and more reliable vapor production so far) Anything that require a "learning curve" or technique ala MFLB will lose points in our opinion. YES the Thermovape is making clouds. BUT I didn't like any cloud that came out of it so far. Neither did any of my patrons.

But at the end of the day, VAPOR QUALITY MATTERS here at the Vapor Spot. More so then anything else. That VAPOR QUALITY includes robustness, level of distinct flavor, number and quality of draws/hits, and overall effect AFTER these criteria are met.. Durability and toughness are NOT as big of a concern for us here at the Vapor Bar as is flavor, conservation, and overall satisfaction.

SO WHAT ARE THE VAPOR SPOT CRITERIA?
we admit to being more selective then others. Notice below that durability and stealth aren't major concerns for our evaluation process (as we live in an MMJ state), with more points given to flavor.

Copied from my website:
There are a lot of new devices on the market. And while its great to see the Vapor marketplace growing, its also time to get selective about quality and vapor production.

Our criteria in evaluating a good vaporizer are thus:

-Is it Butane-free? Why buy questionable butane several times a year when the new technology allows for clean rechargeable battery operation?

-Is the Vaporizer doing the herb justice? Flavor should be pronounced and a true representation of the herbs essence

-Does the device produce enough VISIBLE vapor? A good vaporizer gets hot enough to extract the oil, but NOT burn the herb. Our best devices have electronic thermocouples that regulate the heat around perfect vaporizing temperatures. Finding the sweet spot is key for vaporizers and each user prefers their heat a bit different.

-How is the device built? Safe build quality of the vaporizer matters, with preference given to ceramic and glass for best flavor production.

-and lastly MAINTENANCE! How easy is the device to clean and maintain with daily use? Does it use screens or tubing that needs to be replaced regularly? If it does, at what rate will I need to do maintenance?

All of these issues had to be weighed to get the Vapor Spots seal of approval

I will continue testing one more round, and will report if these "new techniques" will alter my review..
see if you guys can keep the daggers out of my back until I post my results...I'm open to adjusting technique and reporting those findings. stay tuned and stay positive guys...

 

[t-dub]

I AM an expert.

Good, glad we have that cleared up.

So YES, I do think my opinion ( and those of my bar patrons) should carry more weight then a few guys that only own a small cross section of devices to compare it to.

I don't feel that comment describes our community here at FC at all.

That being said in my defense...You guys seem to think that I wasn't able to get hits off of my Thermovape...We were getting hits..Just it took 15 seconds to get them.. (truncated) YES the Thermovape is making clouds. BUT I didn't like any cloud that came out of it so far. Neither did any of my patrons.

Wow 15 seconds to get properly medicated, what an inconvenience. Interesting to note that NOW all of a sudden there is a positive result that was not noted anywhere in the video review.

We ARE elitists for flavor, (truncated) But at the end of the day, VAPOR QUALITY MATTERS here at the Vapor Spot. More so then anything else. That VAPOR QUALITY includes robustness, level of distinct flavor, number and quality of draws/hits, and overall effect AFTER these criteria are met.. Durability and toughness are NOT as big of a concern for us here at the Vapor Bar as is flavor, conservation, and overall satisfaction.

Now we are finally getting somewhere. This comment is the best, most impartial disclaimer about the orientation of the reviewer yet. This is the kind of disclosure an "expert" would posit and is what is required for a professional opinion. If this had been stated up front I would have not had an issue with the review, AS LONG AS, I was sure that techniques that had failed prior to the video review were not, REUSED, to make that video. That I would have a problem with.

Durability and toughness are NOT as big of a concern for us here at the Vapor Bar as is flavor, conservation, and overall satisfaction.

Which is fine but you didn't put those caveats in your "review".

 

[theVaporSpot]

Those criteria are posted on my website and I think my initial video was pretty accurate for the device. Glad you love the Thermovape.. I have stated criteria and go out of my way to work on if it was MY technique or a flawed device. Is it possible you guys could also take off the blinders a bit and step back and look at your evaluations the same way I have offered to? I realize you dropped 200 on it, but what others can you compare it to..can you use your words to describe the flavor differences..Hell, do you have any flavor differences?

I mean skip to the 5:15 mark of the video...i am pretty down the middle and I DO point out that it may work for some members..

Just not for my clientele... so far...i'll let you know if it starts being wonderful...

 

[Stu]

Everyone has their own objective criteria, therefore opinions will differ. Period.

One of my criteria for purchasing this vape was for international travel. Most people probably don't use this criteria, so our opinions of a "good" vape will probably differ on that criteria diferential alone. Add that it's not a desktop vape that most vapor lounges use, and I can understand why TVS's opinion differs from mine. He is welcome to his opinion and it does nothing to change my opinion of this vaporizer. I agree that it was silly to hold it like a cigarette and take short hits that he knew would never work, but maybe he wanted to show his e-cig clients that it doesn't function like the products that they are used to. Who knows.

Opinions differ. That doesn't mean we can't get along and engage in a civil debate about these issues that could help inform decisions for others down the road.

 

[t-dub]

Is it possible you guys could also take off the blinders a bit and step back and look at your evaluations the same way I have offered to? I realize you dropped 200 on it, but what others can you compare it to..can you use your words to describe the flavor differences..Hell, do you have any flavor differences?

Trying to malign our experience won't win you any friends here.

Just not for my clientele... so far...i'll let you know if it starts being wonderful...

Great. Lets all move forward with even handed, objectivity in mind then.

Opinions differ. That doesn't mean we can't get along and engage in a civil debate about these issues that could help inform decisions for others down the road.

Yes, absolutely. Lets move forward.

Edit: Spelling.

 

[theVaporSpot]

"I agree that it was silly to hold it like a cigarette and take short hits that he knew would never work, but maybe he wanted to show his e-cig clients that it doesn't function like the products that they are used to. Who knows."

YEP! that's kinda nail on the head...We bridge the gap between vaporizers and e-cigs, and it was important to show how much harder it was to produce vapor VS an electronic e-cigarette (or even other vapes) where the vapor is almost instant.. But it's kinda misleading that you have to hold this thing like an oboe in my opinion when it looks like an e-cig and just BEGS to be used that way..

"Opinions differ. That doesn't mean we can't get along and engage in a civil debate about these issues that could help inform decisions for others down the road."

Spoken like a true gentleman. it's a conversation not an argument...

 

[2clicker]

Work
1. Grind
2. Load
3. Replace Batteries
4. Heat up for 8-10 seconds
5. Inhale
6. Replace Batteries
7. Inhale faster as it gets warmer
8. Let go of the switch and exhale
9. Shake or stir
10. Replace Batteries
Repeat steps 3-10 as many times as you want... and dont forget to recharge the batteries!

fixed!

jk

 

[Peloton]

My new heater core arrived today as promised. I'm having so much fun with it, my charger + 6 batts came today too! This thing really packs a punch, and I'm getting a good feel for the warmup time/draw that is needed throughout the bowl. It might require a little concentration at first, but "the motions" are becoming quite natural after extended usage.

The TV has become my new work buddy too. It's convenient for a quick solo session.

 

[SF Giant]

Those criteria are posted on my website and I think my initial video was pretty accurate for the device. Glad you love the Thermovape.. I have stated criteria and go out of my way to work on if it was MY technique or a flawed device. Is it possible you guys could also take off the blinders a bit and step back and look at your evaluations the same way I have offered to? I realize you dropped 200 on it, but what others can you compare it to..can you use your words to describe the flavor differences..Hell, do you have any flavor differences?

I mean skip to the 5:15 mark of the video...i am pretty down the middle and I DO point out that it may work for some members..

Just not for my clientele... so far...i'll let you know if it starts being wonderful...

Just stop man.......just stop. I was with you at first but the more you defend yourself by belittling the community here as "amateurs" my compassion is waning, just because someone only has 2 or 6 or 10 vapes in their signature doesn't mean that you know anything that they do not, just agree to disagree and move on, I for one dig my TV but have no problem seeing it's shortcomings, i dig your favorite "portable" also but it, like most vapes has its own problems (take a gander in the solo thread for examples)

 

[pecosthecat]

Me too. That was my criteria for ordering the ThermoVape in the first place. Since then, it has quickly become my go-to vaporizer. It suits my needs very well. That being said, I do not think everybody's needs or expectations are the same. I certainly would not recommend this unit for a vapor lounge type situation. I don't think any portable vaporizers would be ideal for such a lounge. Volcanos and Verdampers sound like they would be better suited. Perhaps the Arizer Solo might be ok for a lounge given the larger battery capacity. However the solo really isn't practical out and about given its size and the fragile glass stem, etc, not to mention all the problems with bad smells, poor fit of the glass stems, poor draw and other QC issues.

At this stage of the game, I don't really think there is a perfect portable vaporizer out there. That's not really a bad thing, there is plenty of room for improvement and if the market size supports it, there will be a lot of innovation coming down the pike.

I have no problem with with the owner of the vapor lounge's review. I don't agree with his conclusions at all and watching the video I see he clearly does not have the correct technique down, but he is entitled to his opinion. His video does raise one major flaw in the design of the Thermovape, in that is really does depend on good technique to get good results. For me, that is not a problem, because I was able to get the technique sorted relatively quickly. However, I see potential problems of punters who purchase the Thermovape and just try to operate it out of the box with the operation instructions supplied by the manufacturer. With only this information to go on, I can certainly see how some people would quickly get frustrated with the Thermovape. Obviously, this is less of a problem for people who visit this forum.

At the end of the day, we all have different needs and expectations. I think the Thermovape is a great product. It works great for me and get's me as toasted as I want to be (and then some), is discrete, very portable, durable and cleanable.

Everyone has their own objective criteria, therefore opinions will differ. Period.

One of my criteria for purchasing this vape was for international travel. Most people probably don't use this criteria, so our opinions of a "good" vape will probably differ on that criteria diferential alone. Add that it's not a desktop vape that most vapor lounges use, and I can understand why TVS's opinion differs from mine. He is welcome to his opinion and it does nothing to change my opinion of this vaporizer. I agree that it was silly to hold it like a cigarette and take short hits that he knew would never work, but maybe he wanted to show his e-cig clients that it doesn't function like the products that they are used to. Who knows.

Opinions differ. That doesn't mean we can't get along and engage in a civil debate about these issues that could help inform decisions for others down the road.

 

[BudBuddy]

Yeah I'm over the whole, my opinion is more valid for x, x, and x reasons. Who cares, having to defend yourself and take jabs on the side doesn't go anywhere either. Agree to disagree?

Put in some new Sour Diesel I picked up, did a fine grind and it is hitting great. Milkier clouds than I have gotten before due to the grind. I find myself enjoying a few ghost hits at the start just to taste the pure flavor, amazing.

That's what sucks about opinions too. I think it's amazing as do others but a few people come around with negative feedback and all of a sudden their opinion matters more? I don't think so.

So far the ratings here have been about 90% positive and that's pretty cool and I'm glad that everyone that has it figured out is enjoying themselves as this is a wonderful device IMO.

 

[weedemon]

Welcome to FC Vaporspot! I think having you here with us is going to be very useful!

I also agree with most of the things you say, but I think the taste on the TV is actually really nice too. Very much a surprise to me as it is a metal chamber as you pointed out. The very first rip, while not the most "potent" is very tasty indeed!

I really like how you took the time to defend and stand by your statements and even go further to show us how you rate and grade things. I agree in most instances I am looking for flavour, potency, dryness of the hit, and i would say in that order.

for a portable vape my needs become slightly different: stealth, flavor, and then potency are my priorities.

I see what you are saying about it being work. Personally I don't mind doing a little work for a nice return. In fact i enjoy reading all these threads and posts because knowledge is power damnit!
There are certain vaporizers that I wouldn't show to friends who are new to vapor because of the learning curves involved. I want then to have a good experience first, then we can focus on the finer points.

that said the TV is not a vape i would break out as an intro to someone totally new. Most of my friends now are either converts, or at least familiar with most of my vapes now though, so it will be easier than before.

hope to see you around on more threads!