Discontinued The Grasshopper

pxl_jockey

Just a dude
So it’s safe to say that when we order a hopper after the batteries arrive, we’ll receive a battery from the new batch with it?
Was wondering the same thing my man, thanks! :tup:

Dear @Hopper Labs I gotta say the recent clear communication and honestly just the presence here at FC has made me more interested in the Grasshopper, bravo! Not sure if it’s a team effort or just one representative, doesn’t matter really... Having come to the thread midway, I’ve always been scared by the stories of reliability and loooooong RMA issues but if things are truly changing for the better at HL, I’m going to think about finally getting one. Can you share what exactly has changed there at hopper labs, to bring about new hope?

One question please, do you still anticipate HBC units to be released “sometime in 2019”? Beyond the hopper and PFE (& batteries), it’s the accessory I would be most interested in. Has HL considered having PVC wraps made for when the customers stuck with glossy wraps need them (they inevitably crack and peel)? For a custom sized $14 battery that is sold solely by you, that seems like something to consider down the road, for your loyal customers.

:popcorn:
:peace: + :leaf:

EDIT: another Q for everyone: beyond the battery included with the unit, what’s a reasonable quantity for extra batteries? I was thinking five, for a total of six but thought I should ask y’all. I wouldn’t want too many but enough for peace of mind and easy rotation. TY!
 
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Hopper Labs

Manufacturer
Manufacturer
Was wondering the same thing my man, thanks! :tup:

Dear @Hopper Labs Can you share what exactly has changed there at hopper labs, to bring about new hope?

One question please, do you still anticipate HBC units to be released “sometime in 2019”? Beyond the hopper and PFE (& batteries), it’s the accessory I would be most interested in. Has HL considered having PVC wraps made for when the customers stuck with glossy wraps need them (they inevitably crack and peel)? For a custom sized $14 battery that is sold solely by you, that seems like something to consider down the road, for your loyal customers.

Well, to your first question, what has changed, short answer, a lot in some ways little in others. I could probably fill a book on the history of Hopper Labs just so far, but here is a quick overview for context.
We had the crowdfunding campaign, delivery was very delayed, but we did eventually deliver. The first 1k units had tons of problems; we fixed those problems and kept shipping. We build and sold many thousands of units that were pretty good. In late 2017, the sub-manufacturer (a US company) that was making the heater of the device for us decided to switch materials for unconfirmed reasons, but we firmly believe this was for cost savings on their side. They guaranteed it would be the same; it was in initial testing; it was not in the real world.

These units started to fail at a startling rate, 2-6 months after delivery. Not only were there thousands of units already delivered, but there were also thousands more being produced. We immediately took drastic action canceling out contracts with the company, and long story short started making the heater in-house. The process is extremely specialized and not something we were experts in. It took time to get it right, 8 or 9 months to get high yields and ramp up production. We had to lay off almost all of our staff and a large backlog of warranty began to build.

This was very unpopular with customers for a good reason. We had our heads down to the noise because, first and foremost, we needed to solve the problem. It was an all-out effort for more than half a year, and along the way, we honestly did not have good answers. There were setbacks, and it was challenging with such a short staff to manage everything and make progress.

In an effort to keep this short, we did it, producing our in-house version of the heating tech. This has allowed us to make it even better than before, more robust, more reliable, more powerful. We have been working non-stop on warranty backlog but of course also selling new units as we must do this to continue operations. Communication has not always been our strongest suit; maybe the classic "were engineers" is true.

So what hasn't changed?
1. We are still a small team working to build flower vapes that are on the cutting edge.
2. We still are committed to offering a lifetime warranty even though it has cost us from a business perspective.
3. We are motivated and committed to making the products better, and finishing some that were delayed by the above events.

What has changed?
1. We know more, we have more experience, and we have more in-house capability to make operation/development/design go more smoothly.
2. We have a much smaller team but are doing more.
3. The Grasshopper is better than it has ever been.
4. We are making more significant efforts to share what has happened so people can understand and make their judgments.
5. We are getting close on catching up on warranty (though still some distance to go)


We are working on getting the HBC out by the end of the year. It is not clear yet if we are going to make it or not. I can provide a more detailed update on it in a few weeks after we hear back on manufacturing timelines. For those with orders for this, we are sorry that it was sidelined by the problems with the heater and warranty.
 

Zuhdj

Charles Mingus
Well, to your first question, what has changed, short answer, a lot in some ways little in others. I could probably fill a book on the history of Hopper Labs just so far, but here is a quick overview for context.
We had the crowdfunding campaign, delivery was very delayed, but we did eventually deliver. The first 1k units had tons of problems; we fixed those problems and kept shipping. We build and sold many thousands of units that were pretty good. In late 2017, the sub-manufacturer (a US company) that was making the heater of the device for us decided to switch materials for unconfirmed reasons, but we firmly believe this was for cost savings on their side. They guaranteed it would be the same; it was in initial testing; it was not in the real world.

These units started to fail at a startling rate, 2-6 months after delivery. Not only were there thousands of units already delivered, but there were also thousands more being produced. We immediately took drastic action canceling out contracts with the company, and long story short started making the heater in-house. The process is extremely specialized and not something we were experts in. It took time to get it right, 8 or 9 months to get high yields and ramp up production. We had to lay off almost all of our staff and a large backlog of warranty began to build.

This was very unpopular with customers for a good reason. We had our heads down to the noise because, first and foremost, we needed to solve the problem. It was an all-out effort for more than half a year, and along the way, we honestly did not have good answers. There were setbacks, and it was challenging with such a short staff to manage everything and make progress.

In an effort to keep this short, we did it, producing our in-house version of the heating tech. This has allowed us to make it even better than before, more robust, more reliable, more powerful. We have been working non-stop on warranty backlog but of course also selling new units as we must do this to continue operations. Communication has not always been our strongest suit; maybe the classic "were engineers" is true.

So what hasn't changed?
1. We are still a small team working to build flower vapes that are on the cutting edge.
2. We still are committed to offering a lifetime warranty even though it has cost us from a business perspective.
3. We are motivated and committed to making the products better, and finishing some that were delayed by the above events.

What has changed?
1. We know more, we have more experience, and we have more in-house capability to make operation/development/design go more smoothly.
2. We have a much smaller team but are doing more.
3. The Grasshopper is better than it has ever been.
4. We are making more significant efforts to share what has happened so people can understand and make their judgments.
5. We are getting close on catching up on warranty (though still some distance to go)


We are working on getting the HBC out by the end of the year. It is not clear yet if we are going to make it or not. I can provide a more detailed update on it in a few weeks after we hear back on manufacturing timelines. For those with orders for this, we are sorry that it was sidelined by the problems with the heater and warranty.

I have a few questions. With these new units, at what point will we know that they last in the real world and not just in testing? When will I be able to order a grasshopper with the confidence I need to order a 225$ product? What makes the HBC different from the regular units? How many bowls can one full battery go through?
 
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elykpeace

exVASted
I have a few questions. With these new units, at what point will we know that they last in the real world and not just in testing? When will I be able to order a grasshopper with the confidence I need to order a 225$ product? What makes the HBC different from the regular units? How many bowls can one full battery go through?
And what happened to the malfunctioning hoppers? I'm sure they were sold and at what point were the new hoppers that are properly functioning with new in house heaters sold? Before or after the long battery wait? Because I bought one that was an old malfunction hopper had it warrantied and shipped back with a new V5 body and for some reason a month or two after it was "fixed" (I bought a new body and then when my old one was fixed they shipped out the old hopper ) it showed the same issues as the older hopper) had a 2ss and a 2ti with 2 having the new v5 body's that were NOT more robust in any way @Hopper Labs and im calling so much bs. Why else would you block comments on instagram? Your customers would love to voice their opinions and "make their judgements".

I've racked up around 800$ worth of these robust products from @Hopper Labs . I've been trusting in the past but I'd advise against anyone I know from purchasing a product from this company.
 
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Hopper Labs

Manufacturer
Manufacturer
I have a few questions. With these new units, at what point will we know that they last in the real world and not just in testing? When will I be able to order a grasshopper with the confidence I need to order a 225$ product? What makes the HBC different from the regular units? How many bowls can one full battery go through?

There is no way to know with 100% certainty at any point, for any product, that they will "last". This is more of a question of what % of devices have problems 1 year, 5 years, 10 years down the road. We do accel life testing to give us ideas on this of course and are confident that these percentages are low enough. If we were not we would not be shipping units. We have never turned away from a delay to make things better. It would make no sense and lead to ultimate failure. That is beyond clear.

You don't have to belive us, simply don't buy the product, but we are the ones with the most riding on that data. Please remember there are 10s of thousands of devices, and the "well mine broke" argument even for new devices is not indicative of the whole. Maybe people don't believe us that the new device failure rate is less than 1%, but it is, and as I said above, anything else will lead to our failure.

I posted a few pages ago about battery life. Check back on that.

And what happened to the malfunctioning hoppers? I'm sure they were sold and at what point were the new hoppers that are properly functioning with new in house heaters sold? Before or after the long battery wait? Because I bought one that was an old malfunction hopper had it warrantied and shipped back with a new V5 body and for some reason a month or two after it was "fixed" (I bought a new body and then when my old one was fixed they shipped out the old hopper ) it showed the same issues as the older hopper) had a 2ss and a 2ti with 2 having the new v5 body's that were NOT more robust in any way @Hopper Labs and im calling so much bs. Why else would you block comments on instagram? Your customers would love to voice their opinions and "make their judgements".

I've racked up around 800$ worth of these robust products from @Hopper Labs . I've been trusting in the past but I'd advise against anyone I know from purchasing a product from this company.

I don't expect to convince you because of the nature of the language in your message and assumptions you are making. I will attempt to answer the questions and provide reasoning. I totally understand if you do not choose to accept it.

I am not sure what you mean by what happened to malfunction hoppers. If they were warranties, we fixed/are fixing. The production of heaters that was already underway was scrapped at a large loss in just brand new inventory. There were not grasshoppers sold with the heaters we knew would fail once we made that determination. Selling these would cause us to lose money and be further away from solving any problems.

I cannot speak to the specific instance of your warranty experience. Failures are never entirely eliminated, and we can only speak about the overall data. The in-house heater immediately showed a massive jump in improvement when we first started delivering it in early 2019. It steadily improved from there as we made further tweaks and adjustments over the whole year. We have always made small changes to the manufacturing as a continual process instead of exclusively releasing discreet versions with upgrades. This is part of our manufacturing philosophy to consistently deliver a better product, not hold large inventory and make continual improvements to each small batch.

We made the decision to turn off commenting on our Instagram because we have the same users posting over and over regardless of what we do. We understand that there are upset people and we have done what we can, while being fair to everyone, to appease them. It goes back to what I said above in that, on the whole, the device, service, and warranty have all drastically improved. We feel it is fair for us to convey that as the facts on our own Instagram outlet. If you choose to express contrary opinions on this forum, Reddit, or any other more public medium, we are not involved in any effort to suppress you.
 

Baron23

Well-Known Member
Maybe people don't believe us that the new device failure rate is less than 1%, but it is

Ok, if I recall correctly, you guys worked as engineers in the aerospace industry. So did I when I first left the USAF and before transitioning to high tech in the tele/datacom space.

If so, then we both know that what you cited is completely and utterly without validity.

1% of what over what period of operating time?

The GH (and most other vapes) does not record operating time so MTBF and availability (an even better figure of merit, I believe) figures cannot be calculated.

Just saying we have a 1% failure rate strikes me as not really saying anything.

If the claim is that 1% of sold GH are returned....ever....for repair then I do indeed have a hard time believing this. This is a very active thread on this forum and we have seen failure after failures reported and we are no different than the rest of your owner population.

So, where did 1% come from. Please, convince me.
 

Zuhdj

Charles Mingus
There is no way to know with 100% certainty at any point, for any product, that they will "last". This is more of a question of what % of devices have problems 1 year, 5 years, 10 years down the road. We do accel life testing to give us ideas on this of course and are confident that these percentages are low enough. If we were not we would not be shipping units. We have never turned away from a delay to make things better. It would make no sense and lead to ultimate failure. That is beyond clear.

You don't have to belive us, simply don't buy the product, but we are the ones with the most riding on that data. Please remember there are 10s of thousands of devices, and the "well mine broke" argument even for new devices is not indicative of the whole. Maybe people don't believe us that the new device failure rate is less than 1%, but it is, and as I said above, anything else will lead to our failure.

I posted a few pages ago about battery life. Check back on that.



I don't expect to convince you because of the nature of the language in your message and assumptions you are making. I will attempt to answer the questions and provide reasoning. I totally understand if you do not choose to accept it.

I am not sure what you mean by what happened to malfunction hoppers. If they were warranties, we fixed/are fixing. The production of heaters that was already underway was scrapped at a large loss in just brand new inventory. There were not grasshoppers sold with the heaters we knew would fail once we made that determination. Selling these would cause us to lose money and be further away from solving any problems.

I cannot speak to the specific instance of your warranty experience. Failures are never entirely eliminated, and we can only speak about the overall data. The in-house heater immediately showed a massive jump in improvement when we first started delivering it in early 2019. It steadily improved from there as we made further tweaks and adjustments over the whole year. We have always made small changes to the manufacturing as a continual process instead of exclusively releasing discreet versions with upgrades. This is part of our manufacturing philosophy to consistently deliver a better product, not hold large inventory and make continual improvements to each small batch.

We made the decision to turn off commenting on our Instagram because we have the same users posting over and over regardless of what we do. We understand that there are upset people and we have done what we can, while being fair to everyone, to appease them. It goes back to what I said above in that, on the whole, the device, service, and warranty have all drastically improved. We feel it is fair for us to convey that as the facts on our own Instagram outlet. If you choose to express contrary opinions on this forum, Reddit, or any other more public medium, we are not involved in any effort to suppress you.
Thank you for the fast response. I'm wanting one. How long is the promo code good for?
 
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Hopper Labs

Manufacturer
Manufacturer
Ok, if I recall correctly, you guys worked as engineers in the aerospace industry. So did I when I first left the USAF and before transitioning to high tech in the tele/datacom space.

If so, then we both know that what you cited is completely and utterly without validity.

1% of what over what period of operating time?

The GH (and most other vapes) does not record operating time so MTBF and availability (an even better figure of merit, I believe) figures cannot be calculated.

Just saying we have a 1% failure rate strikes me as not really saying anything.

If the claim is that 1% of sold GH are returned....ever....for repair then I do indeed have a hard time believing this. This is a very active thread on this forum and we have seen failure after failures reported and we are no different than the rest of your owner population.

So, where did 1% come from. Please, convince me.


Of course, context is important. We are tracking this as simple devices shipped over the number of failures seen from the last 6 months. We will expand this and have more data as time passes. We are confident based on testing and the past 4 years of data collected on most of the systems (excluding the new heater).

We know and fully admit that the failure rate prior to this time was much higher. We have said as much in updates.
 

elykpeace

exVASted
There is no way to know with 100% certainty at any point, for any product, that they will "last". This is more of a question of what % of devices have problems 1 year, 5 years, 10 years down the road. We do accel life testing to give us ideas on this of course and are confident that these percentages are low enough. If we were not we would not be shipping units. We have never turned away from a delay to make things better. It would make no sense and lead to ultimate failure. That is beyond clear.

You don't have to belive us, simply don't buy the product, but we are the ones with the most riding on that data. Please remember there are 10s of thousands of devices, and the "well mine broke" argument even for new devices is not indicative of the whole. Maybe people don't believe us that the new device failure rate is less than 1%, but it is, and as I said above, anything else will lead to our failure.

I posted a few pages ago about battery life. Check back on that.



I don't expect to convince you because of the nature of the language in your message and assumptions you are making. I will attempt to answer the questions and provide reasoning. I totally understand if you do not choose to accept it.

I am not sure what you mean by what happened to malfunction hoppers. If they were warranties, we fixed/are fixing. The production of heaters that was already underway was scrapped at a large loss in just brand new inventory. There were not grasshoppers sold with the heaters we knew would fail once we made that determination. Selling these would cause us to lose money and be further away from solving any problems.

I cannot speak to the specific instance of your warranty experience. Failures are never entirely eliminated, and we can only speak about the overall data. The in-house heater immediately showed a massive jump in improvement when we first started delivering it in early 2019. It steadily improved from there as we made further tweaks and adjustments over the whole year. We have always made small changes to the manufacturing as a continual process instead of exclusively releasing discreet versions with upgrades. This is part of our manufacturing philosophy to consistently deliver a better product, not hold large inventory and make continual improvements to each small batch.

We made the decision to turn off commenting on our Instagram because we have the same users posting over and over regardless of what we do. We understand that there are upset people and we have done what we can, while being fair to everyone, to appease them. It goes back to what I said above in that, on the whole, the device, service, and warranty have all drastically improved. We feel it is fair for us to convey that as the facts on our own Instagram outlet. If you choose to express contrary opinions on this forum, Reddit, or any other more public medium, we are not involved in any effort to suppress you.
Faulty hoppers... You said you fired the us maker of the part for cutting corners and that the hoppers had been sold ... No recall? If the product was bad why wasn't a recall issued on a material that was subpar? And I didn't use any (nature of my language)offensive language? My v5 bodies that were built/replaced in house both failed. I've seen many instances of hoppers being too cold upon return. That wouldn't make something more robust in my mind... Of course that was prob 7 or 8 months ago now so that data wasn't being tracked for the whole 1% faliure. I just wanted to know if the faulty peices were being reused and shipped to people knowing they were faulty to save time in the warranty abyss...
 
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elykpeace,

Baron23

Well-Known Member
Of course, context is important. We are tracking this as simple devices shipped over the number of failures seen from the last 6 months. We will expand this and have more data as time passes. We are confident based on testing and the past 4 years of data collected on most of the systems (excluding the new heater).

We know and fully admit that the failure rate prior to this time was much higher. We have said as much in updates.
So, what you are saying is that 1% of units shipped in the last six months have been returned for repair.

I still think you should consider not publishing that figure as without context it is misleading for those without a reliability engineering background at all.

And, its not really normalized data. In this set of units shipped over six months there are a sixth of them with about six months of some level of usage, a sixth with about 5 months of usage....etc....and there are some with 2-4 weeks of usage (those shipped in the last month of the period).

Please, believe me....I an rooting for GH to become a rock solid reliable vape and I am hopeful that you guys have made great progress on this.

But that figure is, IMO only, misleadingly sunny.

Cheers
 
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Vaporific

All who wander are not lost...
Ok, if I recall correctly, you guys worked as engineers in the aerospace industry. So did I when I first left the USAF and before transitioning to high tech in the tele/datacom space.

If so, then we both know that what you cited is completely and utterly without validity.

1% of what over what period of operating time?

The GH (and most other vapes) does not record operating time so MTBF and availability (an even better figure of merit, I believe) figures cannot be calculated.

Just saying we have a 1% failure rate strikes me as not really saying anything.

If the claim is that 1% of sold GH are returned....ever....for repair then I do indeed have a hard time believing this. This is a very active thread on this forum and we have seen failure after failures reported and we are no different than the rest of your owner population.

So, where did 1% come from. Please, convince me.
Amen - I’m a bit skeptical of that number too given the many horror stories herein since launch with new units. And then there are the units sent in for RMA after 6 months in the wild (like my pre order Ti which was sent in almost two years after I got it).

Indeed I’ve bashed HL in the past herein and directly, mostly clean language except near the end of my year-long RMA wait. I’ve also waxed poetic on the virtues of the device and experience. However I’m glad they’re posting more here and I’m slowly coming back to the good side again as I do see improvements in various areas.

Stats can be tricky without proper & full context, that’s all. :peace::peace:
 

Hopper Labs

Manufacturer
Manufacturer
Amen - I’m a bit skeptical of that number too given the many horror stories herein since launch with new units. And then there are the units sent in for RMA after 6 months in the wild (like my pre order Ti which was sent in almost two years after I got it).

Indeed I’ve bashed HL in the past herein and directly, mostly clean language except near the end of my year-long RMA wait. I’ve also waxed poetic on the virtues of the device and experience. However I’m glad they’re posting more here and I’m slowly coming back to the good side again as I do see improvements in various areas.

Stats can be tricky without proper & full context, that’s all. :peace::peace:

Thanks for the feedback. We understand what matters most at the end of the day is that users see an improvement and that is what we are working towards. If we are doing as well as we say, most people will see better results.

@Hopper Labs in putting my faith in yall. Just ordered a unit. Ordering a few of the new battery and silicon mouthpiece next paycheck. I'm rooting for y'all to overcome your negative stigma in the community.

Thanks! We look forward to having you as part of the Grasshopper Clan. What unit did you choose? Ti or SS?

Question for everyone: Beyond improved reliability what features/improvements do you want in the Grasshopper?
 

slozukimc

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the feedback. We understand what matters most at the end of the day is that users see an improvement and that is what we are working towards. If we are doing as well as we say, most people will see better results.



Thanks! We look forward to having you as part of the Grasshopper Clan. What unit did you choose? Ti or SS?

Question for everyone: Beyond improved reliability what features/improvements do you want in the Grasshopper?

An option to dim the lights for discreet night use.

A desktop dock to drop the Hopper in to charge between uses.
 

Mr. Me2

Well-Known Member
Beyond improved reliability what features/improvements do you want in the Grasshopper?

Truth is, I love the gh as is. I love it’s form factor, quick heat up, and ease of use.

My only suggestion would be to expand your line to add a super size gh (maybe a praying mantis?). That accepts and works with 18650 batteries. But please keep the gh as is, in your lineup!
 

slozukimc

Well-Known Member
Truth is, I love the gh as is. I love it’s form factor, quick heat up, and ease of use.

My only suggestion would be to expand your line to add a super size gh (maybe a praying mantis?). That accepts and works with 18650 batteries. But please keep the gh as is, in your lineup!
Me too. As long as it is working right I can’t think of anything that would make it better. If I was to be picky a back end that is all Ti so it matches the rest of the vape and the colored ones would not have the SS ring.

Edit: Here is a big one......EVERY NEW HOPPER SHOULD COME WITH TWO BATTERIES. You mnow the customernis going to need it. Tack the price on the new unit. I would consider it fair for a small price increase to come with everything you really need.
 

Zuhdj

Charles Mingus
Thanks for the feedback. We understand what matters most at the end of the day is that users see an improvement and that is what we are working towards. If we are doing as well as we say, most people will see better results.



Thanks! We look forward to having you as part of the Grasshopper Clan. What unit did you choose? Ti or SS?

Question for everyone: Beyond improved reliability what features/improvements do you want in the Grasshopper?

SS

Also dosing capsules. Make dosing capsules.
Maybe do colored steel ones too
Bring back the silicon mouthpiece coming with the unit
Or like any sort of easy way to load herb on the go quickly and somewhat discreetly (like a small keychain container with a funnel or something)
 

vapviking

Old & In the Way
Question for everyone: Beyond improved reliability what features/improvements do you want in the Grasshopper?
A mouthpiece deigned to cool the vapor as well as being cooler to the touch (mouth!). With a simple screen more like the pfe's screen and no internal 'gunk traps'. Icing on this cake would be a click on (magnetic?) mount rather than all the turning of threads we do so much with hoppers.
I'm noticing a lot of these early answers to your ??? are suggestions for accessories so I'm gonna add, please don't roll out any more stuff on a 'pre-order' basis! At least not for a while...;)
 

Vaporific

All who wander are not lost...
Question for everyone: Beyond improved reliability what features/improvements do you want in the Grasshopper?
Thanks for asking! Standard battery, e.g. 18650. I know this has been discussed and debated before but this is my top request. Next would be a stealth mode for the lights. :peace::peace:
 
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