The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread
- Thread starter CarolKing
- Start date
grokit
well-worn member
Repubs like morning joe, and cokie roberts from npr?
These aren't rumors, there is an active fbi investigation going on.
Gunky
Well-Known Member
Joe Scarborough used to be a Republican congressman. Roberts was reporting the latest round of rumors. The first link above is an interview with Laura Ingraham. Daily Caller - Tucker Carlson's website? You're going to the bow-tie for accurate reporting on Hillary? Come on grokit, it does no good to channel republican anti-hillary propaganda. These people have been manufacturing scurrilous anti-Clinton rumors and smears for decades. I'm pretty disappointed in you for posting this drivel. It destroys your credibility.
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grokit
well-worn member
Again, these aren't rumors anymore. The fbi publicly confirmed their investigation this month.
That's obama's fbi, and attorney general that are doing the investigating.
Here's a link from msnbc confirming it as well; hopefully you'll find them more acceptable:
FBI formally confirms its investigation of Hillary Clinton’s email server
More on the subject from the huffington post, another conservative mouthpiece (lol):
The FBI and 67 Percent of Americans Distrust Hillary Clinton
Bernie Sanders has positive favorability ratings. He's the only leading candidate in 2016 with positive favorability ratings. If you care about losing to a Republican this year, then you should care about this fact.
Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump do not have positive favorability ratings.
59% of Americans distrust Donald Trump.
67% of Americans find Hillary Clinton "not honest and trustworthy."
Yes, more Americans trust Donald Trump than Hillary Clinton. I explain in my latest YouTube segment that because 67% of American distrust Hillary Clinton, only Bernie Sanders can prevent a xenophobic billionaire from making decisions in the Oval Office. I also highlight why negative favorability ratings, in addition to an ongoing FBI investigation, pave the way for a Trump presidency if Clinton is the nominee.
Not many people know that 67% of Americans find Hillary Clinton "not honest and trustworthy." Not many Democrats know that 30% of Democratic voters distrust Hillary Clinton, in addition to a startling 74% of Independent voters in America. Since 43% of Americans are politically independent, Trump has the edge over Clinton, especially since Trump donated money to Clinton's Senate campaigns and foundation.
In addition, Republicans and especially Trump will make Clinton's ongoing FBI investigation and trustworthiness problems the central themes of every televised debate and every political advertisement. Things are bad for the Clinton campaign when a former Obama intelligence official believes Hillary should "drop out" of the presidential race. Ultimately, nobody wins a general election without better favorability ratings than his or her rival, and Bernie Sanders is the only leading candidate with positive ratings in 2016.
much more...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/bernie-sanders-will-becom_b_9289066.html
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CuckFumbustion
Lo and Behold! The transformative power of Vapor.
I'm still taking it more as a screening of Hillary more than a take down. Only by the level of visibility of the case. Trying to get to know the background of James Baker
and the FBI plus the letter of his 'notification'. Not sure if it is simply an acknowledgement of the investigation or something inference of something more serious that is being investigated. But a Hillary supporter shouldn't breath easy until it passes.
"Now, in a letter dated February 2 and filed in court Monday, the FBI’s general counsel, James Baker, notes that in public statements and congressional testimony, the FBI “has acknowledged generally that it is working on matters related to former Secretary Clinton’s use of a private email server.”
FBI confirms Clinton probe
I'm not a constitutional scholar like Obama claims to be.
But where is the line drawn with US citizenship and Cruz? Has anybody other than Trump pointed out more than Cruz's family history. Since this topic of natural born is back for this election. Why aren't candidates screening themselves?
and the FBI plus the letter of his 'notification'. Not sure if it is simply an acknowledgement of the investigation or something inference of something more serious that is being investigated. But a Hillary supporter shouldn't breath easy until it passes.
"Now, in a letter dated February 2 and filed in court Monday, the FBI’s general counsel, James Baker, notes that in public statements and congressional testimony, the FBI “has acknowledged generally that it is working on matters related to former Secretary Clinton’s use of a private email server.”
FBI confirms Clinton probe
I'm not a constitutional scholar like Obama claims to be.
But where is the line drawn with US citizenship and Cruz? Has anybody other than Trump pointed out more than Cruz's family history. Since this topic of natural born is back for this election. Why aren't candidates screening themselves?
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Gunky
Well-Known Member
This is so bogus! They have not revealed what the focus of the investigation is. Somehow this mutates on Fox news and the far left into: Hillary herself under investigation and about to be indicted! Uh huh.
Congrats, you are now bringing the republican circular firing squad style of campaign to the dems. Very disappointed; you are about to go on my ignore list.
grokit
well-worn member
Are msnbc and the huffington post part of your "republican circular firing squad" as well?
How about cokie roberts from npr? It's mainstream news, not partisan!
Fell free to ignore me, but I haven't gotten personal; these are just the facts.
Over here in the UK for me the whole Trump thing is a first class joke. He should declare Trump Towers an independent state and he and all his fukwit supporters can live there behind a fukin big wall to keep all the undesirables out. A chip off the old block. There is no way his fathers past connections with the KKK and his apartheid apartment buildings didn't have an influence.
CarolKing
Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
This is only my opinion but there is so much still hanging over Hilary's head. The republicans will sure as hell try to bring her down. I hate it when James Baker gets involved, he's ruthless. Remember the Florida voting debacle with the hanging chads during the election of Bush and Gore?
Gore should have won. A lot of unethical behavior among the republicans with James Baker in the middle of it.
Gore should have won. A lot of unethical behavior among the republicans with James Baker in the middle of it.
Farid
Well-Known Member
He's discussing the facts. You can stick your head in the sand and pretend it's not true, but what grokit is discussing are facts related to the email investigation, not his own rhetoric.
Whether the investigation is necessary or not is totally independent from the fact that the American public is still watching as this happens.
Gunky
Well-Known Member
Well you know something is fishy when most of the talk putting down Hillary is not actually talk about wrongdoing, but talk about talk about wrongdoing. She is accused of having a bad reputation, kind of a self-fulfilling charge. Hillary has a cloud over her head! Why? Because people keep talking about a cloud over her head. Circular logic. Years of republican shit-slinging have made people so used to bullshit they don't recognize it when they see it. "She has baggage" they say, unwittingly repeating Fox News talking points. But what is the actual baggage? Stuff like she didn't support gay marriage early enough? She supported a crime bill decades ago that most democrats at the time also supported? She used a private email server? That makes her a terrible person - her email server might have compromised secrecy but actually didn't? It's all innuendo and no actual juice. This lady has been the target of smear campaigns for literally decades. Some lefties recognize that Benghazi is BS, but fail to notice that 'baggage' is also Benghazi. But she changed her position on x! You mean like Bernie on gun control?
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lwien
Well-Known Member
Doesn't take years. Witness Trump. I listen to this guy, I hear the applause and I have to just shake my head in disbelief that people can't see right through his pandering. It's almost like mass hypnosis.
Farid
Well-Known Member
Talking about the FBI investigating a presidential candidate is not "shit-slinging" it is being realistic about how the investigation is going to relate to the election. You can insist that Hillary is innocent of every crime, but you still, as a rational person, should accept the fact that the American people are not so easily convinced, and that this could have an effect on the election.
Gunky
Well-Known Member
Trump hits a nerve among lower skilled/educated whites who have been left behind by our economy, people who were already not doing too well after the closure of many American manufacturing concerns and took a huge hit in the Great Recession and still haven't recovered. For them Republican orthodoxy about low taxes is utterly meaningless; their future looks bleak. Lowering the already low taxes on their low incomes is not going to change anything, and decades of pumping up the rich with low taxes have failed to send any benefit trickling down to them. So Trump correctly observes a problem. His diagnosis - that it's all the fault of immigrants and minorities and foreigners - is straight out of the fascist playbook.
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CarolKing
Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
I agree @lwien all these people blindly following someone who no matter what he does and says doesn't matter to them. It reminds me of another leader in another time and another country. It's starting to get scary. No matter what he spews they are OK with it.
I'm hoping Hilary can win over Trump because it looks like they will be the candidates. I'm not wishing anything terrible to happen to Hilary. I just know how ruthless people can be in politics. I want the democrats to win.
I'm hoping Hilary can win over Trump because it looks like they will be the candidates. I'm not wishing anything terrible to happen to Hilary. I just know how ruthless people can be in politics. I want the democrats to win.
CuckFumbustion
Lo and Behold! The transformative power of Vapor.
This is a different James A Baker. I had to take time and separate the two myself. It wasn't easy I tell ya.
I found 3 James Baker's who were part of the FBI.But yes, don't forget the shenanigans of past elections. And watch Florida very closely, AGAIN!
Not all Trump supporters are part of the 'left behind' or Anti-Hillary crowd. Watch and read what a lot of them are actually saying. If you had to stereotype. A lot of them are TV babies and buy into the fame and hype as criteria. They still can be influenced by something or someone with higher visibility. Just that person who needs to get elected will have to put out more content for 'reality' TV. Candidates like Hillary and Rubio will have to sell those images to those voters to take the Kleig lights away from Trump.
Hillary is more than capable to play to the daytime TV crowd. Rubio has a larger mountain to climb from being a robo-canidate.
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lwien
Well-Known Member
Our saving grace, unlike other European countries, is that the majority of our population is primarily comprised of all those groups that you mention above.
Chill Dude
Well-Known Member
It doesn't matter as to the validity of any of the many accusations against Hillary. The fact of the matter is that when 67% of the electorate view Clinton as "Not honest or trustworthy", she has a major problem. Most people think Clinton is a political being frequently changing her positions on issues based upon mainstream support. Sure, "evolving" on the issues based upon the polls. The email thing may or may not sting her in the long run, but definitely puts a cloud over her candidacy.
In Clinton's defense, it would be impossible for her not to have a certain level of political baggage after so many decades of public service..
In Clinton's defense, it would be impossible for her not to have a certain level of political baggage after so many decades of public service..
Gunky
Well-Known Member
I understand where you are going and yet... Would you accept someone saying "It doesn't matter as to the validity of any of the many accusations against Bernie..."
This amounts to "Well the repubs have smeared her up good and dirty so that's that, her obvious experience and talent mean nothing."
CuckFumbustion
Lo and Behold! The transformative power of Vapor.
Another rationalization for Trump that I hear often from supporters is that he is 'well connected'. He knows enough people to get things done. Which is an interesting point to be brought up by supporters. 
I do smell a plant when I hear an average joe or jane saying these things. But can't casually dismiss their analysis entirely. Being connected in Washington is how the sausage gets made.
Election Polls have lost all their credibility for me since the last 3 elections when they tried and failed to have influence on the real election on the ground.
I've already brought up Luntz as an prime example and remember him from Penn and Teller's BS show. When I read Luntz might be working with Rubio. Then I already knew what playbook Rubio would be working with.
Robo-polling his own data and quoting it to FOX news. Then it gets kicked around on the Network for a full day of content.
I do smell a plant when I hear an average joe or jane saying these things. But can't casually dismiss their analysis entirely. Being connected in Washington is how the sausage gets made. Election Polls have lost all their credibility for me since the last 3 elections when they tried and failed to have influence on the real election on the ground.
I've already brought up Luntz as an prime example and remember him from Penn and Teller's BS show. When I read Luntz might be working with Rubio. Then I already knew what playbook Rubio would be working with.
Robo-polling his own data and quoting it to FOX news. Then it gets kicked around on the Network for a full day of content.
His_Highness
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
The fact that Hillary is the focus of an investigation that has yet to reach a conclusion can be a problem. Until a conclusion is reached the validity of the accusation is not the focus...the perception is.
Innocent until proven guilty is not how politics work. Politics is closer to investing than the courts.
The majority of investors sell a stock the moment it's reported that the company is being investigated for accounting irregularities. They don't wait till the investigation is complete. They may buy it back if the investigation turns up nothing but by then the damage is done. I'm not selling Hillary short but I already invested in Bernie.
Gunky
Well-Known Member
Not a fact. The focus of the investigation has not been revealed, only that it is related to the server and possibly the email contents. Months ago the FBI stated that they were not focused on Hillary herself; no change in that as far as I can tell. The moment Hillary won Nevada, there was a sudden uptick in email server rumors. Surprise surprise!
There are times when I really wonder about the lack of outrage about all bullshit canards hurled at Hillary over the years, from Whitewater, etc culminating in Benghazi and now the email server BS. Apparently lying works if you keep doing it long enough.
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His_Highness
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
@Gunky - I'm not questioning whether there is merit or what the focus is. I'm simply stating the fact that she is being investigated by the FBI......I guess you could make the point that she isn't being investigated but her email server is .... but that feels like a stretch to me.
In a letter disclosed Monday in a federal court filing, the FBI confirms one of the world’s worst-kept secrets: It is looking into Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server.
Why say this at all, since it was widely known to be true? Because in August in response to a judge’s direction, the State Department asked the FBI for information about what it was up to. Sorry, the FBI said at the time, we can neither confirm nor deny the existence of any investigation.
Now, in a letter dated February 2 and filed in court Monday, the FBI’s general counsel, James Baker, notes that in public statements and congressional testimony, the FBI “has acknowledged generally that it is working on matters related to former Secretary Clinton’s use of a private email server.”
Baker says the FBI has not, however, “publicly acknowledged the specific focus, scope or potential targets of any such proceedings.”
In a letter disclosed Monday in a federal court filing, the FBI confirms one of the world’s worst-kept secrets: It is looking into Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server.
Why say this at all, since it was widely known to be true? Because in August in response to a judge’s direction, the State Department asked the FBI for information about what it was up to. Sorry, the FBI said at the time, we can neither confirm nor deny the existence of any investigation.
Now, in a letter dated February 2 and filed in court Monday, the FBI’s general counsel, James Baker, notes that in public statements and congressional testimony, the FBI “has acknowledged generally that it is working on matters related to former Secretary Clinton’s use of a private email server.”
Baker says the FBI has not, however, “publicly acknowledged the specific focus, scope or potential targets of any such proceedings.”
Gunky
Well-Known Member
You changed "working on matters related to Secretary Clinton's use of a private email server" to "she is being investigated by the FBI." The article was careful to say that the FBI has not
“publicly acknowledged the specific focus, scope or potential targets of any such proceedings.”
So you don't know who or what they are investigating but you conclude or assume that it's Hillary. It's sloppy thinking or fuzzy logic. Do you notice that there is a good deal of churn about this story, but absolutely no detail has changed since August? Hillary won in Nevada and looks more and more likely to take the nomination. Boom, uptick in email server rumors.
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