The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

grokit

well-worn member
Reagan ran our country like a business, that was part of his election platform. He ran it like a business alright, he ran it right into the ground. A country is supposed to protect and enrich its citizens, not exploit them like commodities; but that's what happens to those on the bottom rung of society when decisions are made that reflect only bottom-line concerns, and this is the difference between democracy and fascism.
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
In actual fact, the CEOs job is the exact opposite of the president's job. The CEO's primary responsibility is to financially enrich its stockholders. His or her only real concern is making money. It's nice if your employees are happy but that's not what we're here for. And to the extent to which that improves the company's ability to make money a good CEO will make the effort to satisfy his employees needs but only in so far as it helps the company be more profitable and make more money for its investors.

The president's job is just the opposite. The president and his administration's responsibility is to take the money garnered through taxes and fees and use it to enrich the lives of its citizenry. Rather than money being the end-all or the goal of the goverment that the President heads, money is nothing other than a route to the success and happiness and safety of the citizens of the United States. It's much more about spending money than making money, and finding the best way to do that that most improves the lives of the people who live here. All the people who live here, not just a handful of the richest and most powerful.

The fact that that isn't what's happening is not an indictment of the system as much as it is an indictment of the people who we have elected to run the system. If we elect to government people who promised to tear it down, or who completely lack the skills necessary to effectively run the government as it was designed to be run, then we shouldn't be surprised that the government doesn't work as we hope and expect it to.

A CEO is the exact opposite of what we need in the White House. We need a humanist, a psychiatrist, and a social worker. We need somebody who recognizes what his responsibility is, not someone who wants to change the nature of our democracy. We need someone who will care for the citizenry as a parent cares for his family. Someone who recognizes that they are the reason he's in his position not his own personal desires and interests. Someone who understands that the immediate wants and needs are not all that must be considered in decisions that affect the whole country. Someone who recognizes that they have the ultimate responsibility for shepherding the nation towards productive and cooperative goals that serve the nation at large rather than small portions of it.

I don't think even Republican America is stupid or ignorant enough to elect a full on narcissist as president of the United States. We have obviously had people that are not that smart and we have had people who didn't always have all of our interests at heart, but we have never intentionally chosen someone who was such an obviously defective individual to lead our country. We haven't chosen one, at least in my lifetime, who's very goals were to tear the social fabric of our country apart.

I am very hopeful that we are not going to do that now.
 

Adobewan

Well-Known Member
I...The president and his administration's responsibility is to take the money garnered through taxes and fees and use it to enrich the lives of its citizenry. Rather than money being the end-all or the goal of the goverment that the President heads, money is nothing other than a route to the success and happiness and safety of the citizens of the United States. It's much more about spending money than making money, and finding the best way to do that that most improves the lives of the people who live here. All the people who live here, not just a handful of the richest and most powerful.

...We need a humanist, a psychiatrist, and a social worker. We need somebody who recognizes what his responsibility is, not someone who wants to change the nature of our democracy. We need someone who will care for the citizenry as a parent cares for his family. Someone who recognizes that they are the reason he's in his position not his own personal desires and interests. Someone who understands that the immediate wants and needs are not all that must be considered in decisions that affect the whole country. Someone who recognizes that they have the ultimate responsibility for shepherding the nation towards productive and cooperative goals that serve the nation at large rather than small portions of it.
@cybrguy I can't be reading this right, are you coming over to the Bernie camp?:)
 

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
The republicans are always talking how great Ronald Reagen's presidency was. The deficient soared while he was president. It took years to recover. They must be vaporizing Amnesia. All the canadidates brag about how great he was. He wasn't so great and he probably had early stages of Alzheimer's which was too bad.

That's when I first started hearing about trickle down economics, which didn't work.
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
@cybrguy I can't be reading this right, are you coming over to the Bernie camp?:)
Hey, I have said over and over that I like Bernie and much of what he stands for. I am just too much of a realist to think America is ready for him, and believe that trying to push him on America will lead to a republican President. And what that would do to America right now is very clear to me and nowhere NEAR worth the risk.
 
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Gunky

Well-Known Member
Unlike a good businessman, Trump doesn't do his homework. Ask him a question that doesn't involve building an idiotic wall along our southern border and he tells you he'll study up on it later. A good businessman does not make enemies and burn bridges behind him the way Trump does. Trump is at times entertainingly disruptive, but he does not seem to understand the heart and spirit of our democracy, only how to game it to further his own interests and ego.

He stokes feelings of victimization and loss of control in older, less educated whites and directs their resentment towards scapegoat minorities, which is fascism, pretty much.

If all other candidates save one dropped out, Trump would probably go poof! Amusingly, several others seem determined to keep going till the last dog dies, which is of course exactly what Trump is counting on so he can win with a plurality.

Scary as Trump is, I think he may actually be a bit of good news. What if he gets the nomination, which is getting more and more likely the longer the two or three other candidates fight it out? Huge defeat, not only for Trump but for lots of downticket repubs. Dems would regain the senate and maybe the house. The only way Trump could win is a repeat of the primaries: a third candidate emerges to split democratic/independent support from the democratic candidate.
 
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CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
While Trump spoke at the last CNN Town Hall Meeting I tried to listen for any plan that he had such as medical. He said that we could have medical savings accounts but not much else.

He just talked about the wall and Mexico will pay for it. Send undocumented Hispanic citizens back to where they came from. That we shouldn't let Muslims into our country. That ISIS was chopping off people's heads. " That hasn't happened since mid evil times." Is what he said. There wasn't anything of substance.
 

His_Highness

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
I'm all for a president having a good business acumen. I would actually prefer it. I just don't want business intelligence to be the only thing he/she brings to the table which is how Trump strikes me. Come to think of it Trump hasn't been all that successful as a businessman.

Being the political outsider and garnering support because of it isn't something new. IMO the reason the political outsider's doing so well isn't because people are voting FOR them ... it's because people are voting AGAINST another four years of stalemate politics.
 

Gunky

Well-Known Member
One other little bit of good news: Jeb Bush's political ambitions have been laid to rest! Apparently his campaign and his super pac spent a good deal more than a hundred million dollars and stumbled around and got nowhere. No one will ever again put up dough for this guy, I suspect.

Even 10 or 20 million would have hired a brilliant crew of policy people to produce positions and papers, not to mention debate coaching. Apparently most of the money went to negative ads on tv and (ineffective) ground organization.
 
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cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Scary as Trump is, I think he may actually be a bit of good news. What if he gets the nomination, which is getting more and more likely the longer the two or three other candidates fight it out? Huge defeat, not only for Trump but for lots of downticket repubs. Dems would regain the senate and maybe the house. The only way Trump could win is a repeat of the primaries: a third candidate emerges to split democratic/independent support from the democratic candidate.
This is what I have been saying. Trump brings out ALL the Dems to vote against him and leaves MANY of the republicans home because they just can't stand to vote for him. And if they really stay home and don't vote for the down ticket races, we get the House back, along with the Senate. Remember, the WHOLE HOUSE has to be voted in every 2 years, so if republicans stay home, Democrats win.
 

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
I feel similar to @steama about the caucuses yesterday. A bit of a let down feeling. I will vote democrat regardless how I feel personally about the candidate. I guess it comes down to voting for the party. I will vote for who I please in the caucus though.

It seems like so much money is spent on political campaigns imagine if all that money was spent on something like medical for its citizens.
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
I don't give Hillary (or Barack before) money so she will be beholden to me. I give her money so she can continue to do what she has done. Money can easily be support without being graft. Look how your perspective has been warped by politics as usual. Nobody can win without financial support. Taking the money does not make them corrupt.

Not taking the money may well make them losers, however...
 
cybrguy,

howie105

Well-Known Member
The republicans are always talking how great Ronald Reagen's presidency was. The deficient soared while he was president. It took years to recover. They must be vaporizing Amnesia. All the canadidates brag about how great he was. He wasn't so great and he probably had early stages of Alzheimer's which was too bad.

That's when I first started hearing about trickle down economics, which didn't work.


What was presented as trickle down had been historically presented as a side effect of classic capitalism it just got repackaged and recycled as a administration presentation point for the Regan period. Why it didn't work was in part because we don't have text book capitalism we have a weird meld of business, citizens and an established political class with each looking after its own goals and interests. Looking at the pools of power and resources pretty much points out who the winners are. So while I never saw anything wrong with the idea of trickle down it just doesn't work under our current system.
 

little maggie

Well-Known Member
12733627_1071574796268907_2407391175003885514_n.jpg
 

grokit

well-worn member
Bernie has the wind at his back now. He was down 40 points in iowa, and 30 points in nevada before closing the gap in both to a virtual stalemate in a matter of weeks. The northeast and the west will come into play soon, and then it will be a whole new ballgame. I'm surprised he didn't do even better in nevada though.

“No president, not Bernie Sanders or anyone else, can effectively address the economic crises facing the working families of this country alone. No president can do it alone. … What this campaign is about is building a political movement, which revitalizes American democracy, which brings millions of people together. … [W]hen millions of working families stand together, demanding fundamental changes in our financial system, we have the power to bring about that change.

~ Bernie Sanders​

from:
This is the key to Bernie Sanders’ political revolution: Here’s how we beat GOP obstruction

:sherlock:
 

Gunky

Well-Known Member
“No president, not Bernie Sanders or anyone else, can effectively address the economic crises facing the working families of this country alone. No president can do it alone. … What this campaign is about is building a political movement, which revitalizes American democracy, which brings millions of people together. … [W]hen millions of working families stand together, demanding fundamental changes in our financial system, we have the power to bring about that change.

~ Bernie Sanders​

from:
This is the key to Bernie Sanders’ political revolution: Here’s how we beat GOP obstruction

:sherlock:

Lovely, gauzy sentiments, but what exactly does "millions of working families stand together, demanding fundamental changes in our financial system" actually mean? Nothing, really. It's a fantasy notion of change in the federal government running somehow outside of Senators and Representatives the people have elected. The whole "No president can do it alone" rhetoric is absurdly empty because essentially what he is saying is: your elected reps won't listen to or cooperate with me - leaving me alone as a president and unable to achieve anything - but somehow the public will be on my side and therefore we'll have the power...

Uh huh. I don't think so. We beat repub obstruction not by fantasy 'power to the people' but by building up the democratic strength in congress, which of course Bernie refuses to do, since he is proposing going around the dems directly to the people, whatever the heck that means. He says nobody can do it alone so vote for Bernie, a party of one. Yep.
 
Gunky,

grokit

well-worn member
Lovely, gauzy sentiments, but what exactly does "millions of working families stand together, demanding fundamental changes in our financial system" actually mean? Nothing, really. It's a fantasy notion of change in the federal government running somehow outside of Senators and Representatives the people have elected. The whole "No president can do it alone" rhetoric is absurdly empty because essentially what he is saying is: your elected reps won't listen to or cooperate with me - leaving me alone as a president and unable to achieve anything - but somehow the public will be on my side and therefore we'll have the power...

Uh huh. I don't think so. We beat repub obstruction not by fantasy 'power to the people' but by building up the democratic strength in congress, which of course Bernie refuses to do, since he is proposing going around the dems directly to the people, whatever the heck that means.
It's no different than hillary saying that she will use her "political capital"(?) to get her ideas through an obstructionist congress. Bernie's agenda is broader than hillary's, and more people will demand its enactment. At least that's the conclusion of elizabeth warren, whom people also trust quite a bit.

This election will either continue the partisan obama agenda with hillary, elect an unabashed fascist with trump, or give the american people an unprecedented chance to take their country back with bernie.

:2c:
 

Gunky

Well-Known Member
It's no different than hillary saying that she will use her "political capital"(?) to get her ideas through an obstructionist congress. Bernie's agenda is broader than hillary's, and more people will demand its enactment. At least that's the conclusion of elizabeth warren, whom people also trust quite a bit.

This election will either continue the partisan obama agenda with hillary, elect an unabashed fascist with trump, or give the american people an unprecedented chance to take their country back with bernie.

:2c:
I don't know how you can say Bernie's agenda is broader than Hillary's. It's the opposite: very narrow. Bernie is the Occupy candidate. He has no foreign policy. He has tax-the-rich no more too-big-to-fail feel-good sloganizing, reform campaign finance (something which can only be done in Congress, not direct appeals to people, standing together or not), and um...

Take their country back? Et tu grokit? From whom? The Senators and Representatives they elected? Dumb, feel-good, meaningless us-against-them rhetoric.
 
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cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
We beat repub obstruction not by fantasy 'power to the people' but by building up the democratic strength in congress, which of course Bernie refuses to do, since he is proposing going around the dems directly to the people, whatever the heck that means. He says nobody can do it alone so vote for Bernie, a party of one. Yep.
I am no more interested in a Bernie "cult of personality" than a Trump "cult of personality". That isn't how government works. And a President with no party affiliation or support can do nothing.
 
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Chill Dude

Well-Known Member
As a successful businessman, he knows how to win, and he knows that his first battle to win is the primary because if he can't do that, he won't win the grand prize and in order to win the primary, he HAS to court the primary GOP voters and that is EXACTLY what he is doing. If he can't do that, he loses. Does that mean that he has to say things that he may not believe himself? Sure does. Is that what he's doing? Could be. The real test for this is to see how his rhetoric changes as he tries to win different states and if he wins the primary, will he change his stance when he's going for the General election.

I actually see his right wing rhetoric changing right now. I think Trump is balancing his far right primary rhetoric with rhetoric geared toward the general. Trump is actually very shrewd and knows how to play this game very well..

Trump is up in the polls enough to take some calculated risks in his effort to have a broader appeal in the general. Why do you think he keeps bringing up the fact that he was very much against the war in Iraq? Why do you think he totally bashed George W Bush on lying to the American people and failing to keep us safe? Why do you think he suddenly has a more moderate view on Health Care and wants to cover all people, but without the waste of the ACA? In my view, I think Trump feels he is up enough in the polls of these Southern states that his willing to take a chance on issues that he thinks will help in November if he in fact wins the nomination... And going after Bush most likely caused him to win SC by only 10% instead of the 15 to 18% that he was polling at before his Bush attacks..

I can hear trump now.... Hillary, you were very stupid to vote for the Iraq war. I was always against it and it turned out to be a total disaster... Hillary, I too want to see all Americans have medical insurance, but I will do it at a much lower cost and people will see their premiums go way down.. The ACA is a total disaster..

I think Trump is beginning to prepare for the general now.. He knows he will have to have broader appeal with independents and moderate/conservative democrats. Trump may be a racist and a narcissist, but he's not stupid.

Does anyone else see this, or maybe I've had one too many Dabs today?
 

Chill Dude

Well-Known Member
Sorry, Dude, I think it's the dabs... ;)

I don't think there is any way mainstream America warms to this guy.

And I WILL add that I HOPE that's the case.

My point wasn't that Trump would be successful, but rather that he is shifting to the left on specific issues as a strategic move..I don't think mainstream America will warm to Trump either, but I wouldn't 100% discount the possibility that Trump could actually win..I mean nobody thought he'd even get this far.. Unfortunately, In politics today anything is possible!!
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
My point wasn't that Trump would be successful, but rather that he is shifting to the left on specific issues as a strategic move..I don't think mainstream America will warm to Trump either, but I wouldn't 100% discount the possibility that Trump could actually win..I mean nobody thought he'd even get this far.. Unfortunately, In politics today anything is possible!!
After George W Bush was reelected in 2004 I will never again discount the possibility that anyone will be elected President. It IS possible. I am fairly confident that it would destroy America as we know it, however, and I will do anything I can to make sure it doesn't happen. I will NOT relax on the knowledge that "It couldn't happen" again. Lesson learned.

(Shortly I expect a Bernie supporter to come along and suggest that "destroying America as we know it" is exactly what they are after, but with Bernie in charge. And I will add that that COULD be nearly as bad)
 
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