The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Biden sponsored the rave act. He will never get my vote. Hilary already has no chance of getting my vote. Bernie is the only person I'd vote for, so if he doesn't win the primary I won't be voting.
Hey that's the way to get your needs met. Don't vote. Brilliant. I'm sure whoever the rethuglican is will move the govt just where you want it. Maybe they'll even shut down medical AND recreational around the country like Christy wants to do. I'm sure that will thrill ya.
 

Snappo

Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!"
Accessory Maker
Hilary voted for Iraq. A vote for Hilary is the same as a vote for Trump or Jeb Bush. I'd actually say it's worse as I see that vote as direct involvement in war crimes. She voted for an illegal war, she should never be able to hold office. Some people call for W. Bush and Cheney to be arrested for war crimes. I'd be happier to see the people who voted for Iraq to never be allowed any public office again.
A politician's past voting record is the same thing as a phantom apparition in the physical world - it has no weight or substance, so may as well stay dead and buried, as they would have it. A slick politician's denial is otherwise known as tenacity and the general public's mistaken interpretation of the issue to begin with. Anyway, if I've said it once I've said it a billion times, "I never exaggerate", so why don't y'all vote for me:D.

EDIT: For those who would opt to not vote at all, I would offer this ...cast your vote to the wind and go with the lessor of all evils. Other than flipping a coin - I know that sounds trite and overly simplistic, but...
 
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Derrrpp

For the world is hollow and I have touched the sky
I really don't like politics at all. They're all a bunch of pandering fools that don't care about anything important like feeding and housing the poor, or reducing carbon emissions (it's only the fate of the whole planet that hangs in the balance!). The only thing they care about is money, money, money, and how much of it they can shove in their own pockets. We need change, big change, and soon, before we lead ourselves right to the brink of oblivion.

I'm all for Bernie Sanders, as I feel he's the only candidate to offer even a chance at shifting the status quo. If he doesn't win the Democratic nomination, I'll end up voting for whoever does (most likely Hillary), because I'll be damned if I'm gonna sit around idly and let someone like Trump get elected. Sometimes it comes down to choosing the lesser of two evils...
 
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CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
I don't like to vote strictly party but that's what I end up doing. My views are those of the Democrats but I don't always like who I'm voting for. I always vote for president no matter what, even if I'm in bed sick. That wouldn't matter now because everyone votes through the mail in WA.

I was so excited for the election 7 years ago that I took the day after the election off because I knew I was either going to be really elated or severely depressed. When Obama won I had some thoughts of how great the country was going to be under his leadership. It brought out all the prejudice in the Republican Party and they fought him on no matter what he tried to achieve.

All these folks in Roseburg OR worried that Obama is going to take away their guns, how ridiculous is that. With everything that's happened over the last few years regarding crazy people with guns in America firm background checks need to be in place and followed. I guess if you aren't crazy you don't need to worry. We need to think about the broad picture and protecting innocent people from the deranged of the world. I know people will disagree with me.

Some people are so disrespectful of a president. Whatever happened to common manners in our society. Those folks in OR really made me mad how they acted. The people in Portland are completely different.
 

Farid

Well-Known Member
Hey that's the way to get your needs met. Don't vote. Brilliant. I'm sure whoever the rethuglican is will move the govt just where you want it. Maybe they'll even shut down medical AND recreational around the country like Christy wants to do. I'm sure that will thrill ya.

You act like voting for Biden or Hilary will somehow meet my needs more than a "rethuglican". I'm not a fool enough to get caught up in partisan sectarian bickering. I have the issues I care about, and I judge the people based on their records. I honestly can't say who would be worse for the issues I care about, Hilary, Biden, Bush or Trump.

That's why I'm voting for Bernie in the primaries, and if he doesn't go on, that's it.
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
I don't mean to say you are a fool. I mean to say that it is foolish to think there is no difference between the parties, what they stand for, and what they want to accomplish.

Are there ANY Democrats running that want to shut down the government? Are there any democrats running who want to kill healthcare? Are there any democrats running who want to kill comprehensive immigration reform and spend 10 billion or so trying to round up all the undocumented and send them back to Mexico? Are there ANY democrats who actually believe that the answer to illegal immigration is to build a wall? Are there any democrats who actually believe there is no difference between alcohol and marijuana? Are there any democrats who believe that MJ is as bad as heroin? Are there any democrats who respond to any conflict around the world with a desire to send American troops to resolve it?

Not all Democrats are great candidates or even great people. But as a party, it is pretty clear where the crazies reside, and I would just as soon they found something different to do for a living.

Actually, that isn't true. We NEED a republican party. Our government is designed to have 2 parties (at least) in opposition. But government and ideas have to be reasonable, and "NO" is never a party platform.
 
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Farid

Well-Known Member
I will vote for a candidate that represents me. But if I had to choose between voting for Stalin or Hitler, I don't think I would vote. To me, the differences between the candidates are that small. While we could get into debate about who was worse, and we could do the same for the candidates, I don't think the debate would be fruitful.

And like I said, I would vote for Bernie or a if not him a third party candidate. I wouldn't have voted Nader in the Bush Gore election, but to me Hilary and Biden are closer to Bush and Trump than they are to Gore.
 

TeeJay1952

Well-Known Member
@Farid Pontius Pilate washed his hands but was still responsible. I can understand distaste but if you let the power structure silence you by disappointing you then we have all lost before we begin.
 

Snappo

Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!"
Accessory Maker
@Farid Pontius Pilate washed his hands but was still responsible. I can understand distaste but if you let the power structure silence you by disappointing you then we have all lost before we begin.
Respectfully, it is @Farid's right and privilege to vote should he choose to do so, but it is by no means an obligation. Of course, no vote creates a void or a shift that gets filled by perhaps another even less desirable candidate. If an entire field of candidates proved undesirable by a majority mass electorate, perhaps a referendum should be enacted to go back to the drawing board and draw from the poker deck once more??? Not likely, or practical, I know, but...
 
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cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Respectfully, it is @Farid's right and privilege to vote should he choose to do so, but it is by no means an obligation.
I mean no disrespect to either you or Farid, but I disagree. I personally believe that voting IS YOUR ONLY obligation of citizenship. You are given the right to vote with an expectation that you will use it. And if you don't use it, than I think you are obliged to stay out of the conversation.
 

Farid

Well-Known Member
@Farid Pontius Pilate washed his hands but was still responsible. I can understand distaste but if you let the power structure silence you by disappointing you then we have all lost before we begin.

I think voting in an election where the choices are two legacy names and a TV celebrity is letting the power structure silence you. Voting gives the election legitimacy.

And where did I say I'm not voting? I said I am voting for Bernie. As far as he goes.
 

Snappo

Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!"
Accessory Maker
I mean no disrespect to either you or Farid, but I disagree. I personally believe that voting IS YOUR ONLY obligation of citizenship. You are given the right to vote with an expectation that you will use it. And if you don't use it, than I think you are obliged to stay out of the conversation.
No disrespect taken. I believe our most principled obligation as citizens is to be as good of a citizen to one another as one's own ability, conscience, and beliefs allow. One's belief disallowing one from participating in something for whatever his/her personal reason should not necessarily disqualify one from contributing 2 cents into the pot. And to force one's strong opinion on another for mandatory acceptance lest he/she be cast out, IMO, is not a worthy demonstration of good citizenry, nor is it wise. There is much to learn from a silent, abstaining, dissenting, or indecisive minority. Though it may or may not be a precise fit for this discussion, it may nonetheless be somewhat apropos i.e., a good rule to consider where an unknown risk is involved is - "if you have to think about it, don't do it".

For the record I do plan to vote, regardless if I know it to be a throwaway token.
 
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Gunky

Well-Known Member
Whichever candidate is nominated in either party, this will be a contest between more tax breaks for the rich and less. It will be cut off increased health care access or improve it. It will be a choice about whether this is a nation governed by a religion, or one governed by a constitution and the powers vested in various governmental bodies and offices. It will be between one party that seeks to increase economic inequality and another that doesn't. It will be about rolling back women's access to health care across the country, or not doing that. About telling you what you can do in your bedroom, who you can love and marry, or not trying to dictate the private lives and mores of citizens. It will be a struggle between a party which has become a radical parody of its former self and is now impervious to facts, science, economics, evidence... and a party which respects science. A party which wants to break unions and another which supports worker's right to organize and bargain collectively. A candidate who will nominate another Scalia for the court and one who won't. A party which suppresses voting and another which seeks to expand the numbers of registered voters and facilitate their access to polls or voting by mail. I could go on and on.

Don't vote if you think these are meaningless distinctions.
 
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Snappo

Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!"
Accessory Maker
Whichever candidate is nominated in either party, this will be a contest between more tax breaks for the rich and less. It will be cut off increased health care access or improve it. It will be a choice about whether this is a nation governed by a religion, or one governed by a constitution and the powers vested in various governmental bodies and offices. It will be between one party that seeks to increase economic inequality and another that doesn't. It will be about rolling back women's access to health care across the country, or not doing that. About telling you what you can do in your bedroom, who you can love and marry, or not trying to dictate the private lives and mores of citizens. It will be a struggle between a party which has become a radical parody of its former self and is now impervious to facts, science, economics, evidence... and a party which respects science.

Don't vote if you think these are meaningless distinctions.
These are meaningful distinctions indeed, perhaps even profound. What is still unclear to me is who's who behind the masks, and from which side of the aisle do they truly hail.
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
These are meaningful distinctions indeed, perhaps even profound. What is still unclear to me is who's who behind the masks, and from which side of the aisle do they truly hail.
I can't imagine why you might have difficulty determining that. Even if you don't want to believe what they say, other than the 3 at the top of the republican race they all have records that you can evaluate. And even those 3 have fairly clearly indicated their intentions and desires. If Carson had never opened his mouth we might not have enough info about him, but he has resolved that for us. The other 2 have said enough to disqualify them for me.

If someone says to me they are going to do something I find crazy or extremely distasteful, whether they actually intend to do it or not isn't important to me. Its when they say they are going to do something I WANT them to do that it matters to me if they really intend to do it.
 

CuckFumbustion

Lo and Behold! The transformative power of Vapor.
I understand some not wanting to vote and those who feel there is some sort of obligation. :2c: The full range. Say, Can I vote for 'none of the above' this election? :D
But, slightly more seriously, you can vote on measures that are on the ballot, which can affect you locally. (That and the free sticker. You can be smug and go give blood and get another free sticker and a cookie. )

You could always still vote for the independent candidates that are closer to your beliefs/position/etc and at least help bring those issues to the podium.
Voting in this manner, can at least help legitimize the voting system in place and eventually help have all 50 states recognize and need to have more of the independent candidates on all of their ballots. Each state now has their own criteria for recognizing who can be on the ballot for each election or am I wrong about that? :shrug:

Currently, If you want to switch parties, then the factor of different election board rules and time allowed to make the switch from each party. Some boards rules deliberately make you wait for more than a year too be able to switch parties in time. (so their is no chicanery, I guess:|). Sigh.....
So if you honestly want to vote for you dream candidate who is in the other party, you might be excluded from their electoral college. Because you didn't switch parties as fast as some of the candidates are able to switch parties.

If your dream candidate runs as an independent, they should have to go through the normal vetting in the election process. But not have state measures/criteria choose not to have them on the ballot, simply because they happen to be low in the polls 1 year prior to an election....
Then the normal vetting from Iowa on. Or at least till Florida votes. :haw:
Why must we start with farmers in Iowa and end with some mess in Florida? That does need some sort of explaining.:peace:
 
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howie105

Well-Known Member
These are meaningful distinctions indeed, perhaps even profound. What is still unclear to me is who's who behind the masks, and from which side of the aisle do they truly hail.

Follow the money and you find that political operatives/candidates of both parties share many aspects, one of the most important is access to power. Like any groups the powerful look out for their interests first.
 

Snappo

Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!"
Accessory Maker
I can't imagine why you might have difficulty determining that. Even if you don't want to believe what they say, other than the 3 at the top of the republican race they all have records that you can evaluate. And even those 3 have fairly clearly indicated their intentions and desires. If Carson had never opened his mouth we might not have enough info about him, but he has resolved that for us. The other 2 have said enough to disqualify them for me.

If someone says to me they are going to do something I find crazy or extremely distasteful, whether they actually intend to do it or not isn't important to me. Its when they say they are going to do something I WANT them to do that it matters to me if they really intend to do it.
While it may not be difficult to come to final judgment for some, I have never really been able to expertly handicap the phillies running in these races predictive of how they will perform once they've passed the finish line. Habitual flip-floppers notwithstanding, few others have shown an opposite proclivity to resist bending to shifting winds and special interests. Perhaps I would be better served by applying a reverse psychology to all candidates, taking what they promise and expecting the reverse. And even if one does make noble effort to stay true to his/her words, even at their best statesmanship, there is no guarantee that they won't incite gridlock with a recalcitrant congress. I wish it were enough to see our candidates posing raw atop their soap boxes and resting on records, but the office of the presidency has turned many a filet mignon into ground chuck, leaving we discerning patrons disappointed at the dining table.
 
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cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Currently, If you want to switch parties, then the factor of different election board rules and time allowed to make the switch from each party. Some boards rules deliberately make you wait for more than a year too be able to switch parties in time. (so their is no chicanery, I guess:|). Sigh.....
Well, this is only in the primaries, where you are helping to choose the party's candidate. Some states have open primaries where they allow anyone to vote in the primaries, other states are more party centric.
In the general election, even if your state does have a Dem and a REP ballot, they will be identical and you can vote for whoever you want. I always vote in referendums, but I will often take a pass on the judges as I rarely have time to suss out the right ones, and I won't vote judges by party. I may take the advice of the local bar association, but even that can be skewed. Not voting for judges usually favors the incumbent.

Obviously I have my opinions, but it is much more important to me that people vote then that they vote for my guy. I always drive people to the polls that I know are not voting my way, but I think it is that important. It is practically the only way to to move government in the direction I want it to go.
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
While it may not be difficult to come to final judgment for some, I have never really been able to expertly handicap the phillies running in these races predictive of how they will perform once they've passed the finish line.
Well, don't feel badly about that. Look at how many Supreme Court Justices have turned out to be something other than what their choosers expected. I would suggest that is a much bigger deal than our single votes...
 

CuckFumbustion

Lo and Behold! The transformative power of Vapor.
I would like the need to finance these candidates to become obsolete. Start treating the candidates more like administrators and not 'leaders'. Less pep rallies and fanfare and 'looking' presidential. Hold their feet to the fire the day after election. Get what measures they plan to implement/change and keep the pressure on.

It is amazing how some forget the 'promises' made by the same candidate prior. Here's a favorite Jon Stewart clip---> An Energy-Independent Future

And why so many PAC's? Then you examine what other legal roadblocks that both parties voted on to hinder any third party and dismantle that.

Also, If you can't keep a budget with your election committee, then you should disqualify yourself.
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
If you care about getting the crazy money out of politics I have a guy for you. The incredibly well regarded lawyer Lawrence Lessig is trying to get in the Dem debates, and I think he needs to be there. If there is ANY hope of getting the crazy money out of politics, citizens united has to be repealed. He is running for president JUST TO PUBLISIZE THIS ISSUE. Well, this and gerrymandering and how it makes incumbents impossible (or nearly) to defeat.
 
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