The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
I'm not happy how these leaks from the emails are trickling out regarding Hillary. Just release the whole lot of them. This person who is doing all these releases (other than Assange possibly) are trying to control our election. All this info should have been released a long time ago.

Im curious how we are not seeing any leaks from the other side? It's pretty clear what is happening. Somebody is sitting laughing at the American democrats squirm. This whole thing is trying to get Trump elected.

I'm more than unhappy, it makes me really angry. Election manipulation is what's going on. Folks need to be outraged. It's like all of America is fucking stoned. What the hell!!:bang::leaf:
 
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ReggieB

Well-Known Member
I couldn't possibly imagine that assange himself would ever have a reason to attack america.... </sarcasm>

I'm starting to think that the 'others' are merely a distraction and this is assanges personal vendetta against the usgov.
 

Farid

Well-Known Member
It's not about controlling the election, it's about making sure it doesn't get swept under the rug.

If it was one leak, it would be one story, and people would only be able to focus on one transgression. The whole point of the leak is to show that Clinton has several skeletons in her proverbial closet. If it was all leaked at once those skeletons would appear to be one transgression versus several different, and often unrelated transgressions.

Deleting official emails is a different offence from pay to play, which is a different offence from working with the DNC to oppose Sanders, which is a different offence from having an extremely cozy (to the point of being suspect) relationship with big Oil and Saudi Arabia.
 
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CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
The problem I have is that we are just seeing all the leaks from Clinton. This is going to screw the election. These leaks should have been revealed some time ago. They are sitting on them like its the golden egg. Meanwhile we will end up with this bafoon cartoon figure as a president. If I thought Gary Johnson would get in it's one thing. Trump will be our president. I'm not ok with that. I'm sure the best part is yet to come.

Trump is a thief and a liar and we aren't hearing any revealed emails about him. I wonder why? There seems to be only one target.

This info needed to be revealed during the primaries. It's pure manipulation of our election process. It's too late to fix our choice now isn't it. Meanwhile someone is laughing their ass off.

Edit
It wouldnt surprise me if Trump has ties to the mob but we arent hearing anything. Also you can't tell me he hasn't paid for an abortion or two. He pays people off possiblely?
 
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lwien

Well-Known Member
Just finished watching, "The Making of the Mob" on AMC, a show about the Chicago mafia and what constantly strikes home with me is how Trump sounds and looks exactly like these guys, from his vocal phrasing to his facial expressions to his body language and to his hand gestures. This guy looks and sounds just like a fucking old-time gangster.

 
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grokit

well-worn member
:cool:Have we talked bout hillary's proposed transition team members yet?
These are not exactly inspiring choices:

Ken Salazar; who infamously said "there's not a single case where hydraulic fracking has created an environmental problem for anyone"

Alan Blinder; an elitist wallstreet insider

Neera Tabden; who's work at the "progressive" think tank CAP entailed, in part:
  • Arguing that Libyans should be forced to turn over large portions of their oil revenues to repay the U.S. for the costs incurred in bombing Libya.
  • Openly courting donors like Walmart, Citigroup, the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America, Goldman Sachs, the United Arab Emirates, Bank of America, Google, and Time Warner.
  • Instructing staffers to "check with the think tank’s development team before writing anything that might upset contributors.”
Imo hillary's worst problem isn't drumpf and that's saying a lot. It's herself :2c:

:myday:
 
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ReggieB

Well-Known Member
that's conveniently ignoring the fact that this information is being released during the election cycle and really is influencing the election, it's not a mildly irritating side effect :p Timing is everything and says volumes.
 

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
Trump will be our problem if he becomes president. If this info would have been brought out during the primary then another democrat would have had an opportunity - like Bernie. This is fucked up on so many levels.

I'm all for this info being put out. The timing screwed Bernie out of the nomination process for president. For some reason someone wants Trump to be our president.

It's the timing that I don't like. I personally don't like being manipulated because it effects us too not just Hillary. We are all in this together.
 

Joel W.

Deplorable Basement Dweller
Accessory Maker
I have a feeling wikileaks was hoping that the FBI would indict Clinton when Assange stated wikileaks does have her emails. The FBI basically called his bluff and let Clinton off.

The emails from wikileaks on Clinton have not been released yet. The ones coming now, are coming from the State Dept, who got them from the FBI, who recovered them from her server, after they were deleted.. Released through the FOIA to judicial watch.,

If Clinton gets elected, I am sure Assange believes he will get droned out. No love there..

That is my guess anyways.

edit: I blame Hillary and the DNC, for shoving this shit sanni down our throats.

I can not wait to read the emails that says the DNC promised Clinton the white house in 2012 (for 2016), if she agreed not to run against Obama. Sorry, my mind starts to imagine shit..

Edit 2: This is the guy from judicial watch that is doing this. He (judicial watch) uncovered 171 emails that were not turned over to the FBI, 44 new (*not today, but, Aug 22) email exchanges between Clinton and her top aid. (so he says).. I want to hate him. I hate the timing. I hate corruption more. I hate this season. I hate trump. I am getting tired of hate.



Fixed*
 
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Farid

Well-Known Member
If Hillary is forced out of the election, I am SURE the American voters will be given another Democrat option, which I am sure will be much more palatable than Trump. Biden, Kerry, any of those guys would be better than Clinton. And I am not a Biden fan at all (the rave act leaves a really bad taste in my mouth). But I could hold my nose and vote for him. I could never do that for Clinton.
 
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Joel W.

Deplorable Basement Dweller
Accessory Maker
Yup, I believe he also claimed there was no security on Clintons server for months but yet they say this from your link.

"The online publication of DNC emails by WikiLeaks led to the resignation of the committee’s chair, Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (Fla.), in July. Guccifer 2.0 was branded “in homage to” Lazar, Song wrote.


Contrary to Lazar’s claims, authorities say he never obtained access to Clinton’s email account.

[‘Guccifer 2.0’ claims credit for DNC hack]"

edit: One other thing I hate,,, is that many of us, on the same side, are very divided because of our beliefs in a system that no longer works, run by rich people, who think they are above laws.
 
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Joel W.,

grokit

well-worn member
This is tongue and cheek mainly because of the source article, but interesting/entertaining nonetheless.


Killary Determined To Strike Moose And Squirrel

Hillary Clinton Threatened To Murder Bernie Sanders, Says Credible Not-Russian-Sounding News Site


In Russia, articles troll commenters!

Big breaking news from the extremely credible-looking website “USA SUPREME” (Motto: “We are best American writing news, very accurately”), revealing that the next round of Wikileaks releases will prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Hillary Clinton not only rigged the Democratic primary, but actually threatened Bernie Sanders’s life if he would not drop out of the presidential race he had already not won. Just look at this highly believable, credible journamalisming:

Sanders supporters are waiting with bated breath for the next email dump from Julian Assange, the founder and editor in chief of Wikileaks. Because the DNC rules are suspended If Hillary Drops Out The Second Candidate With The Highest Number Of Delegates Gets The Nomination. He released hacked emails last month showing Democratic National Committee officials plotting to defeat Mrs. Clinton’s chief rival, Vermont Sen. Bernard Sanders.Wikileaks editor-in-chief Julian Assange promised to release more damning emails about the Clinton Foundation, and warned he has enough evidence on Hillary Clinton making secret deals with an alleged Islamic State sponsor for the FBI to indict her.”We have more info and we will publish everything when the time is right some of these materials can get Hillary Clinton to lose the nomination.Was Bernie Sanders threatened to drop out of the race? Well, Assange gave a response to that question in an interview with John Pilger an Australian journalist based in the United Kingdom and his answer won’t surprise many...

more:
http://wonkette.com/606078/hillary-...ussian-sounding-news-site#g6Ir3urEZeZpxLIg.99


:myday:
 
grokit,

Gunky

Well-Known Member
So many people over so many years, all so sure they are just about to get the goods that will expose Hillary Clinton for the horror show they know she really must be, you know, if only they could find that smoking gun email, or travel-gate document, proof that Benghazi was um, ya know... You would think after 25 years in the public eye - basically the exact same scandal-mongering and innuendo the entire time - you would think Charlie Brown would know by now that the football isn't there when you go to kick it. You would think, wouldn't you? But no. Even now people are going on about OMG! Hillary met with Saudi officials as Secretary of State! (duh! That would be her job as SoS. And the Saudis don't need to donate a few million to the Clinton foundation to get her attention as SoS nor is there the slightest indication that they donated to get her attention or access to her. It's just another Benghazi witch hunt). They donated 12 million dollars to the Clinton charitable foundation! My first thought when I heard that was: is that all? Only 12 mil? You would think the Saudis, with all their fabulous oil wealth, would pony up a bit more than a measly 12 mil. For them this amounts to a token contribution. OMG Microsoft also donated to the Clinton foundation, helping millions survive the AIDS epidemic. Oh the shame! The horror! Is there no bottom to the Clinton depravity? Enabling filthy Saudi lucre and the spoils of Windows software to save lives.
 
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Joel W.

Deplorable Basement Dweller
Accessory Maker
It's not the donating that is illegal, it's expecting and getting something back, for that donation, that draws the line, i think?

Today's emails from JW

(Washington, DC) – Judicial Watch today released 510 pages of new State Department documents, including a 2009 request by Clinton Foundation executive Doug Band for diplomatic passports for himself and an associate. Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s aide Abedin responded to Band’s request positively, saying, “Ok will figure it out.” The emails show Hillary Clinton forwarding classified information to Abedin’s unsecured, non-state.gov account. The emails also show Bill Clinton sought a meeting with Mrs. Clinton for a major Clinton donor with State Department officials and Hillary Clinton herself pushed for a joint event with the Clinton Global Initiative. Band also pushed for and obtained special help from Abedin for seven-figure Clinton Foundation donor Chris Ruddy, of Newsmax.com.

Although an exchange sent from Sidney Blumenthal to Hillary Clinton concerning the “disastrous nature of the Obama trip” and the U.S. being “totally out of the loop in Berlin – no ambassador” with the expectation that “Germans and Russians will now cut their own separate deals on energy, regional security, etc….” had previously published by the State Department, it was unknown until now that Clinton forwarded this exchange containing classified information that was redacted for security reasons to Abedin’s unsecure non-state.gov account

The new documents included 37 Hillary Clinton email exchanges not previously turned over to the State Department, bringing the known total to date of such emails uncovered by Judicial Watch to 228 of new Clinton emails (not part of the 55,000 pages of emails that Clinton turned over to the State Department). These records further appear to contradict statements by Clinton that, “as far as she knew,” all of her government emails were turned over to the State Department.

The Band request was for a special diplomatic passport for himself and his associates – an unidentified “JD” and apparently Justin Cooper, formerly a key member of Bill Clinton’s personal office and the Clinton Foundation who has been linked to registration documents for and the shutting down of the email server at the center of Mrs. Clinton’s State Department emails controversy.

link (more new email stuff)
http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-...diplomatic-passport-clinton-state-department/

Not sure if he got one, but it's clear, the state dept was on it. (different, new crime)
 
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Joel W.,
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ReggieB

Well-Known Member
I see most of this stuff against clinton as click bait, there's never a punchline of any worthy note at the end of it, like another 55 emails that leads absolutely nowhere because that's the very best they can manage. You can bet that the moment there really is something, they'll be all over it like flies on a cow pat and it won't be another lame opinion piece in the media.
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
But you see, that is the problem. How are we to believe them when/if they DO come up with something real? It is the crying wolf scenario, and 80% (made up number) are already caught up in it. When someone lies right to my face I tend to turn them off as a source of anything real in the future. How do they get passed that?
 

His_Highness

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
Deleting official emails is a different offence from pay to play, which is a different offence from working with the DNC to oppose Sanders, which is a different offence from having an extremely cozy (to the point of being suspect) relationship with big Oil and Saudi Arabia.

I'm all for this info being put out. The timing screwed Bernie out of the nomination process for president. For some reason someone wants Trump to be our president.

It's the timing that I don't like. I personally don't like being manipulated because it effects us too not just Hillary. We are all in this together.

It's not the number of possible offences or the timing of these 'leaks' that I hate. What I hate is that none of it has been actionable. I was a big fan of where there is smoke there is fire when Bernie was running and I was hoping he'd win. I don't know if it's because this is a anti-smoking site or because all this smoke is burning my eyes or because I need to prove you can teach an old dog new tricks but.... I've actually had enough with the smoke. Lets get to the fire already!

When Bernie was still in the race I took every opportunity to raise the case that there is way too much impropriety surrounding HRC and for months I have expected her to be charged with something. Hell, the magnification of the microscope she's under should have turned up something especially since there are enough rich and powerful looking through that microscope hoping to find something.

I don't think HRC is a stupid person nor the most honest but I don't think she's a criminal mastermind capable of having done half of what is implied WITHOUT GETTING CAUGHT AND CHARGED.
Now....In my best Johnny Cochran imitation.....

If a crime she did commit,
Then charge her with some shit!

Did I mention I'm voting for Hillary unless that's not possible?
 

gangababa

Well-Known Member
...
(Washington, DC) – Judicial Watch today released 510 pages of new State Department documents, including a 2009 request by Clinton Foundation executive Doug Band for diplomatic passports for himself and an associate. ...

The Band request was for a special diplomatic passport for himself and his associates ..."
Not sure if he got one, but it's clear, the state dept was on it. (different, new crime)

Not sure whose words are whose, so perhaps it was the quoted article (not the poster) making the claim, "(different, new crime)".
A totally unsubstantiated claim about crime. Pure spin!
The linked source, Judicial Watch, needs to be judiciously scrutinized for falsehoods and unsubstantiated conclusions and spin. Read more from another source.

NYT invents fake scandal about one of Bill Clinton’s greatest successes
(wherein Bill Clinton arranges the release of imprisoned Americans from North Korea. Oh the horror of Clinton-ism)
"The crux of the Times’ “scandal” is that an aide to Bill Clinton asked the State Department for a diplomatic passport for two of his staff. He didn’t get it. (And he should have.)
That’s it.
No clear connection to the Clinton Foundation. And no explanation as to why it was a bad thing for Clinton’s staff to ask for the passport.
Oh, but it gets better.
The two Bill Clinton staffers weren’t asking for a diplomatic passport so they could pick up chicks at Euro Disney. They were heading on a secret diplomatic mission to North Korea, with Bill Clinton, to negotiate the release of two American journalists held hostage by the North Korean regime. One of the journalists Bill Clinton rescued, Laura Ling, is the younger sister of CNN correspondent Lisa Ling."
...
"Yes, Bill Clinton, with the aid of a few staffers, was heading to the most brutally repressive regime on the planet, on a secret diplomatic mission on behalf of the US government, and he wanted diplomatic passports to protect his staff. And the Times is trying to portray that as some kind of frivolous, even nutty, request."
...
"Mind you, let’s just ignore the fact that Clinton did it, he saved the two journalists."
"...the first two paragraphs of the (NYT) story don’t mention North Korea at all. They talk about a “special” diplomatic passport, and “special access” for the adviser, as if there was nothing “special” about American citizens being asked to go on a secret diplomatic mission to the most repressive regime on the planet. Oh that’s right, none of that was mentioned in the lede of the story.
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
How the Press is Making the Clinton Foundation into the New Benghazi
by Paul Glastris
September 2, 2016 2:08 PM

Over the last two weeks, Hillary Clinton’s campaign has taken a hit in the polls, much of it pretty clearly due to aggressive press investigations involving her relationship with the Clinton Foundation when she was Secretary of State. Even Hillary fans should see that these investigations are warranted. After all, Clinton is running for the most powerful office in the world. While she was Secretary of State, her husband was overseeing a $2 billion a year charity. That charity took in donations from foreign governments and individuals with international interests. These facts raise legitimate questions. Did donors to the Foundation get special access to the secretary and the department as a result of their donations? If they did get special access, did they receive any favors? Did Hillary or her staff do anything illegal, unethical, or contrary to U.S. interests or administration policy?

The good news is that as a result of these investigations we can now answer those questions pretty definitively: no, no, and no. The bad news is that the press doesn’t seem to want to take “no” for an answer, even if the answer is based on the evidence of its own reporting.

Consider the story in today’s New York Times by Eric Lichtblau based on a new batch of emails released by the conservative group Judicial Watch as part of its lawsuit. The emails show that Doug Band, then with the Clinton Foundation, asked Huma Abedin, a top aide to then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, to help him procure special diplomatic passports for himself and two other Clinton Foundation staffers. Band also asked for a private meeting between Secretary Clinton and Dow CEO Andrew Liveris, a Clinton Foundation donor. These emails, writes Lichtblau, raise “new questions about whether people tied to the Clinton Foundation received special access at the department.”

The reporting in the piece itself, however, doesn’t so much raise new questions as answer old ones. As Lichtblau explains, Band wanted the diplomatic passports because he and his colleagues were about to accompany Bill Clinton on an emergency mission to North Korea to negotiate the release of two American journalists (as a former president, Clinton already had such a passport). In the end, State didn’t issue special passports to the Foundation staffers, despite the risks they were taking, because doing so would have been contrary to Department rules. Liveris did get a short meeting with Mrs. Clinton for a perfectly valid reason: he had offered to let Mr. Clinton use his private plane to fly to Pyongyang.

Other stories on the Clinton Foundation over the last two weeks fit the same basic pattern: the facts dug up by the investigation disprove the apparent thesis of the investigation. Last week, for instance, the Associated Press shook up the political world with an enterprising investigation showing that more than half of the 154 private sector individuals Secretary Clinton met or talked with during her first two years at State had donated to the Clinton Foundation, ether directly or though their companies or groups. That “extraordinary proportion,” said the AP, indicates “her possible ethics challenges if elected president.”

But aside from the AP’s questionable math—the 154 meetings were gleaned from Clinton’s calendar, and no one seriously doubts that over two years she met with far more private sector individuals than that—the story’s own reporting undermined the case that anything unethical occurred. As its main example, the story cites meetings with and calls on behalf of Bangladeshi economist Muhammad Yunis, whose Grameen Bank had contributed to the Foundation. Yet Yunis is not some shady financier who gave money to the Foundation to gain access to the secretary. He’s a Nobel Prize-winning pioneer of “micro-lending” to the world’s poor whom Clinton has known and worked with for 30 years. And the calls she made in support of Yunis were part of an international effort to keep the Bangladeshi government from forcing the beloved humanitarian out of Grameen on trumped-up charges. Other examples in the piece of donors getting “access” are similarly benign (one of them was the Holocaust survivor Elie Weisel).

The same passive-aggressive quality pervades all the recent stories about the Clinton Foundation have this. There is the big LA Times investigation about how Doug Band tried to get a State Department meeting for a donor, a possibly sketchy Nigerian-based Lebanese billionaire. The man had on-the-ground knowledge of the political machinations in Beirut, so was probably worth talking to, but in any event the meeting never occurred. There is Politico’s deep dive into the hitherto untold story about how the federal government made payments to the Clinton Foundation for IT equipment and staff. While strongly suggesting that the payments were highly questionable, the authors concede that their investigation “does not reveal anything illegal.” Indeed, the payments were from a program Congress created more than half a century ago specifically to fund the work of ex-presidents, money every ex-president has taken advantage of, and the piece offers ample evidence from documents obtained from the General Services Administration that the GSA’s bureaucrats and the Foundation carefully followed the rules.

Thanks to the publishing of these investigations—most of which took many months of dogged effort to produce—we now have a tremendous amount of granular information about the Clinton Foundation’s relationship with the State Department and with the federal government generally. In virtually every case we know of, it’s clear that Hillary and her staff behaved appropriately.

Yet instead of accepting the evidence of their own investigations, much of the mainstream press expresses the attitude that these are still wide open questions. In its recent lead editorial the calling for the Clintons to cut their ties to the Foundation immediately (the Clintons have said they’ll do so if she wins), The New York Times concedes that the latest batch of emails does not “so far” show that Hillary gave any special favors to Clinton donors while at state. On the cable shows, even the few journalists who acknowledge the lack of any evidence that Hillary and her staff did anything untoward feel the need to insist a that the next batch of emails could prove otherwise.

And of course in theory it could. But as Nancy LeTourneau has observed, there is phrase for those who insist on keeping a controversy going long after the facts are in: “Merchants of Doubt.” The label comes from the book about a loose group of scientists who helped corporate and conservative political interests sow doubts in the public’s mind regarding the surety of the science linking tobacco to lung cancer and fossil fuels to global warming. It’s the same strategy creationists use when they lobby school boards about gaps in the fossil record and how its important to “teach the controversy” about evolution.

Another way of looking at it is that the press is beginning to treat the Clinton Foundation story the way the Republican still treat Benghazi. The legitimate questions surrounding Benghazi—What were the precipitating events that lead to the deaths of four diplomats? What might the federal government have done differently to prevent it?—were basically answered when first round of after-action press investigations and the 2012 Accountability Review Board Report were published. Keeping the controversy alive with half a dozen more congressional investigations was just a way for Republicans to rough up Clinton.

The GOP at least had an obvious political motive for refusing to admit the obvious on Benghazi. Why is the mainstream press is refusing to concede the facts of its own investigations on Hillary and the Clinton Foundation is not so clear. But unless it stops that behavior and starts speaking honestly, and soon, there’s a very real chance it could throw the election to Donald Trump.
 

Joel W.

Deplorable Basement Dweller
Accessory Maker
Not sure whose words are whose, so perhaps it was the quoted article (not the poster) making the claim, "(different, new crime)".

Those were my poorly chosen words. My bad. I should have said "possibly different and new crime"

The problem I see is this Brand guy from the foundation is not really asking for diplomatic passports, he is demanding them and then the state dept seems to be saying "OK will figure it out."... Not sure how that works or how it's supposed to work but my point is the right is mad about it. Maybe they should be. maybe not.

Every day for the next 2 months will be more drip drip drip from judicial watch, the State dept and I believe Wikileaks, so to simply dismiss everything that comes out as lies because nothing has stuck so far seems like a mistake. I at least want to read about whats coming and decide for myself, no matter the source. I take it into account for sure.
 
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