The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

[cybrguy]

Quick Takes: “This Land is Your Land”
by Nancy LeTourneau
July 1, 2016 5:14 PM

As we head into this July 4th weekend, I’m thinking about the fact that a lot of liberals struggle with the whole idea of patriotism. That’s because the word has often been associated with the air-brushed view of this country that omits the struggles and focuses mostly on symbolism. President Obama’s speech at the 50th anniversary of the Selma march gave us a more honest look at what patriotism really means.

And yet, what could be more American than what happened in this place? What could more profoundly vindicate the idea of America than plain and humble people –- unsung, the downtrodden, the dreamers not of high station, not born to wealth or privilege, not of one religious tradition but many, coming together to shape their country’s course?

What greater expression of faith in the American experiment than this, what greater form of patriotism is there than the belief that America is not yet finished, that we are strong enough to be self-critical, that each successive generation can look upon our imperfections and decide that it is in our power to remake this nation to more closely align with our highest ideals?

That’s why Selma is not some outlier in the American experience. That’s why it’s not a museum or a static monument to behold from a distance. It is instead the manifestation of a creed written into our founding documents: “We the People…in order to form a more perfect union.” “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal.”​

In honoring a true patriot, that is exactly how Bruce Springsteen described Pete Seeger at his 90th birthday celebration. Bruce used the occasion to recount the time he and Pete sang together at Obama’s first inauguration – when he took the opportunity to tell an overjoyed Seeger, “You outlasted the bastards, man.”

Bruce’s description of Pete tells us what a true patriotic hero looks like:

Despite Pete’s somewhat benign grandfatherly appearance, he’s a creature of stubborn, defiant and nasty optimism. Inside him he carries a steely toughness that belies that grandfatherly facade and it won’t let him take a step back from the things he believes in. At 90, he remains a stealth dagger to the heart of our country’s illusions about itself…He reminds us of our immense failures as well as shinning a light towards our better angels on the horizon where the country we’ve imagined and hold dear we hope awaits us.​

So as you enjoy your holiday weekend, take a few minutes to enjoy this patriotic song (all 4 verses).

 

[HellsWindStaff]

Continuing on, the entire thread has been pretty much free of "political theory" except for you

Lol? Really? You denying that there isn't political theory in this thread kind of proves his point......

With responses like:

Reagan occupies a special place in Hell with Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot......when it's a Koch Brothers conspiracy.......when it's George Bushes fault for X,y,z,a,b,c.........that's not political theory?

So why bother to post a right leaning/counter perspective? It's an indirect form of silence. If those radical left ideas aren't considered "theory" then are they factual? Or false? Or are they theories?

Some of you actually do believe Reagan was the devil and the Koch brothers are running this country and Bill Clinton was the best president ever other than Kennedy (The key to being a good president is being a womanizer ).... those aren't fact.......those are opinions/theories.

Not to paint a broad brush, there is some good perspective and opinions here. But to say this thread doesn't have political theory other than him is just a false narrative.

 

[t-dub]

That meeting between Lynch and Clinton was the dumbest thing that I've seen in awhile. Just goes to prove that really smart people can do some really dumb things.

The appearance of impropriety is definitely there. I would love to hear what was said on that plane for 30 minutes but it doesn't really matter because they shouldn't have been talking in the first place. They had to have a goal in mind that they wanted bad enough to do this. I mean you can get disbarred for this kinda stuff, or even worse, and you know they knew it. So what did they want to achieve, we can only speculate. If they wanted a reason to stall the investigation until after the election because they have to find a special prosecutor or something is the only guess I have as to their motives. Its clear they went out of their way to have this meeting as Clinton stayed late to meet Lynch as she flew in. Its hard to understand what he was doing there in the first place as he didn't play golf and no one seems to know why he was there. The attempted coverup, if you can really call it that, may just be an act to motivate and direct the news cycle. They had to know that something like this would "leak" no matter what precautions they took. Or maybe it truly was a horrible mistake. It seems Bill has not been very helpful to H's campaign. You would think she would be pissed but there is no evidence of this that I have seen, yet.

Thanks @lwien for bringing this up, you were the only one to comment which says a lot. After this incident I have been monitoring this echo chamber, er thread, to see who would comment and what they would say. So far I am not surprised.

 

[cybrguy]

Well, I didn't bother to respond because I think the whole thing is nothing but bullshit. Clinton has history with Lynch, and I have no reason to think that when he noticed that they were both sitting on the tarmac that he would stop by and say howdy. If either of them had thought about it they wouldn't have done it due to the optics, but they didn't and we have what we have. They certainly wouldn't have used this method to have a clandestine meeting. If they wanted something like that they would have done it over the phone or someplace where there was no press. Duh. But the press wanted a story, and they got one.

So, in a week where Donald Trump broke federal election laws soliciting world leaders for donations to his campaign for President, the press has got all of it's cameras and writers pointed at Bill Clinton, a non candidate, making a careless but likely innocent effort to visit an old friend. I just love American theater...er politics.

 

[lwien]

Clinton has history with Lynch, and I have no reason to think that when he noticed that they were both sitting on the tarmac that he would stop by and say howdy.

30 minutes is a lot more than just a "Howdy".

If either of them had thought about it they wouldn't have done it due to the optics...

It's inconceivable to me, considering the pending cases, that neither of them thought about the optics, especially when one considers how smart they are and how experienced they are both in law and in politics.

 

[cybrguy]

It's inconceivable to me, considering the pending cases, that neither of them thought about the optics, especially when one considers how smart they are and how experienced they are both in law and in politics.

Yet you believe they would be stupid enough to have that kind of conversation in front of the press? Really? It is a hell of a lot easier for me to believe it was Bill just doing what Bill does.

And, btw, I think Lynch DID realize that it was probably inappropriate but didn't know how to say no. She at least implied that in her interview with Capehart.

 

[yogoshio]

But to say this thread doesn't have political theory other than him is just a false narrative.

I was hoping someone else would say something, as my defending myself would have only been seen as empty based on his premise.

 

[lwien]

Yet you believe they would be stupid enough to have that kind of conversation in front of the press? Really?

The conversation that they had was not in front of the press.

 

[cybrguy]

The conversation that they had was not in front of the press.

The fact that they HAD the conversation certainly was.

Do you think they don't have telephones?

 

[His_Highness]

Yet you believe they would be stupid enough to have that kind of conversation in front of the press? Really? It is a hell of a lot easier for me to believe it was Bill just doing what Bill does.

There is a mention that if a reporter hadn't gotten a tip this would not be news. Bottom line is that both of these folks are political animals who know full well that the Clinton's have a credibility issue and allowed this to happen. IMO this means they wanted an opportunity to talk alone without the benefit of a phone that could be tapped or at the very least would cause a record of the call to be available. Still waiting to hear Bill say 'He did not have an illegal conversation with that woman'. I think I've heard something similar before.

 

[Joel W.]

State Dept says it will not release her aid's* emails for 27 more months.

The FBI interviewed their target.

fixed*

 

[grokit]

Indicted or not indicted, Clinton could lose politically

• FBI inquiry continues as Clinton prepares to accept Democratic nomination for president
• FBI interviewed Clinton Saturday for 3.5 hours at its headquarters in Washington
• Republicans call on attorney general to appoint special prosecutor in Clinton email case
• Loretta Lynch says she will accept the recommendation of career investigators, prosecutors

Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton speaks during a rally in Raleigh, N.C.

WASHINGTON - No matter how the FBI investigation into the handling of sensitive information on Hillary Clinton’s personal computer server ends, it likely will hurt her presidential bid.

If she is indicted, she will face further questions about her honesty and perhaps even calls for her to step aside. If she isn’t indicted, as many legal experts predict, critics will accuse the Obama administration of letting her escape charges merely because they want her to win the White House.

Clinton was interviewed by the FBI Saturday for three-and-half hours at its headquarters in Washington, according to her campaign, suggesting the inquiry is nearing its end.

“Secretary Clinton gave a voluntary interview this morning about her email arrangements while she was secretary,” Clinton campaign spokesman Nick Merrill said in a statement. “She is pleased to have had the opportunity to assist the Department of Justice in bringing this review to a conclusion.”

However it is concluded, events this week underscored anew that Clinton is likely to emerge scarred. A new controversy over the Obama administration’s handling of the case and Attorney General Loretta Lynch’s refusal to hand it over to a special prosecutor far removed from the White House served as a reminder that critics would always say that political favoritism toward Clinton tainted any decision to clear her.

Under pressure after she met privately with Clinton’s husband this week at his invitation, Lynch did announce Friday that she expects to accept the recommendation of investigators and prosecutors at the FBI and the Justice Department as well as FBI Director James Comey, a Republican, in the case. “I fully expect to accept their recommendations,” she said.

She said that she still plans on reviewing the case, which was launched by the FBI’s Counterintelligence Division after classified information was found in some of Clinton’s emails last year, and will not recuse herself.

Lynch has repeatedly rejected demands that she give the case to a special prosecutor, after Barack Obama said Clinton did not endanger national security, after the president and vice president endorsed her, and after Lynch met privately with Bill Clinton, a visit she said was social and did not mention the case but still raised bipartisan alarms.

Don Smaltz, a lawyer appointed as an independent counsel to investigate former President Bill Clinton’s secretary of agriculture, Mike Espy, in the 1990s, said Lynch should have appointed a special prosecutor last year.

“I think she would have a more thorough investigation,” he said. “The public could have more confidence in whatever the outcome is.”

much more...
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article87312972.html

 

[t-dub]

All lawyers are trained to avoid even the appearance of impropriety and her meeting with Clinton probably violates the Department of Justice ethics regulations. The Department's Ethics Handbook requires the Attorney General to avoid the appearance of impropriety. The handbook offers 14 General Principles of Ethical Conduct. The most relevant one to this situation is number 14.

14. Employees shall endeavor to avoid any actions creating the appearance that they are violating the law or the ethical standards set forth in this part. Whether particular circumstances create an appearance that the law or these standards have been violated shall be determined from the perspective of a reasonable person with knowledge of the relevant facts

5 C.F.R 2635.101 (b)

Appearance of Impropriety

An employee shall endeavor to avoid any actions creating the appearance that the employee is violating the law or the ethical standards set forth in this part.

5 CFR 2635.101(b)(14)

Could it be that our highest officials are not only above the law, but that they know they are, and they can’t even be bothered to hide it?

 

[gangababa]

Here is one man's 'political theory' after seven decades of paying attention
(And never having been distracted in life by the circuses of sports, hunting-fishing, fighting, or keeping up with the Jones')

I did not write this but I do endorse it
In my opinion, verifiable facts starting with a Jan 2009 meeting* are incontrovertible and no other theory explains the past eight years of Republican Party anti-American obstructionism, and the head-spinning hypocrisy shown over and over again by those claiming Christian morality and principled politics

*Google is your friend

 

[Snappo]

I think that once the Clinton/Lynch fireside warm n fuzzy Te-ta-Te goes through the media washer & dryer spin cycles, the consensus will wring-out that neither party, while in plain sight, ever cared to influence, or be influenced by, the other, and this is just Bubba's way of thumbing his nose up at everyone looking... of course at Lynch's 3 cent expense. Still, inquiring minds will want to know how much dough was stuffed in the sealed white envelope that was slipped down into her bosom, and how many bones were rattled in Lynch's closet full of skeletons. A blimp full of hot air... The beat goes on...

 

[grokit]

Is something the matter with hillary's health? I'm just asking because I noticed in the picture that I posted above, the telltale bruising on her right hand that she would have from IV's hooked up to her recently:

 

[lwien]

Naw, it's just a stamp from the local club she was dancin' at on the night before the pic was taken.

 

[cybrguy]

Is something the matter with hillary's health? I'm just asking because I noticed in the picture that I posted above, the telltale bruising on her right hand that she would have from IV's hooked up to her recently:

Oh My God, you found her out. She is actually the Manchurian Candidate, completely under the control of Putin and the Ayatollah, dontcha know.

Ya got to get this to the press, Grokit. They might have missed it.

 

[t-dub]

Is something the matter with hillary's health? I'm just asking because I noticed in the picture that I posted above, the telltale bruising on her right hand that she would have from IV's hooked up to her recently

Naw, it's just a stamp from the local club she was dancin' at at the night before.

Or it could be a bruise from the backhand she gave Bill . . .

 

[grokit]

She is actually the Manchurian Candidate, completely under the control of Putin and the Ayatollah, dontcha know.

You are quite the conspiracy theorist! I was thinking that she could have easily become dehydrated from the demands of the campaign. But you should go with this idea, maybe you'll get some traction

 

[lwien]

Or it could be a bruise from the backhand she gave Bill . . .

Yup. Probably right after she found out about her husband boarding Lynch's plane.

"You fucking did WHAT ?!?!?!?"..........SLAP !!!!

 

[His_Highness]

Maybe her hand is worn out from reaching out to all those Bernie supporters and coming up empty.

 

[Snappo]

Is something the matter with hillary's health? I'm just asking because I noticed in the picture that I posted above, the telltale bruising on her right hand that she would have from IV's hooked up to her recently:

She does look a bit frazzled, if not gaunt...

 

[lwien]

She does look a bit frazzled, if not gaunt...

I've heard that campaigning for President is actually harder, both physically and mentally than actually being President.

 

[CarolKing]

IMO it was inappropriate for Bill to have been talking to Lynch about the case at all. He needed to bend over backwards to keep his mouth shut. He has a way of putting his foot in his mouth at times, especially regarding his wife. He's been very good lately. Wondering why he would do this?
I'm sure Hillary was pissed.

Of course Trump blew it up, which we knew he would. Making it look like the worst thing ever.

Edit
You are right @t-dub Bill should have avoided being seen at all with Lynch. Now he's really screwed things up for his wife as well as the Democrats. Really stupid on both their parts for even talking to each other.