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Sexual Harassment Accusations...

Discussion in 'The Vapor Lounge' started by lwien, Nov 9, 2017.

  1. Hjalmark

    Hjalmark Oldest boy alive

    Messages:
    682
    Your like Santa Claus for perverts

    Who has been naughty and who had been nice :D


    Fiy pervers was just an easiest word I could find, I am all for sexual freedom, just too high to get myself into a corner because my bad wording :D

    Edit Ps fiy I am not pro rapist

    Uh yeah I should just stop now

    Pps:

    I ate some chocolate and going to try to make sense

    I am really glad all those douche bags are getting outed for their behavior and this issue is getting brought forward

    Even though there is bound to be some "friendly fire" and maybe someone might get hurt I think it's still worth it

    We all need to grow and mature so we can advance civilizations and truly reach for the heavens

    Sadly along the way there are going to be few bumps on the road, and be a man or a women or crab people at the wheel

    We are going to hit some

    Like ruining what a good lesson #MeToo could be because people started abusing it

    (crab people is the final form of us humans, all genders super cyborgs)
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
  2. HellsWindStaff

    HellsWindStaff Dharma Initiate

    Messages:
    1,718
    Your point that sexual assault happens in many industries would be better if you had left the strawman arguments about how much energy and knowledge went into my post.

    This is the big story right now. I don't have to pay it much mind to still be inundated with news about it, gain knowledge, and form an opinion. Paying something much mind does not equal "informed" so you seem to be implying I'm either lying about not giving much of a shit or that I'm uninformed. Which is it?

    To imply I "need help" because I elaborated on the topic at hand..... lol. Another strawman point. I found it interesting because I said I'm enjoying seeing them eat crow that you lead with these "points"

    I am turned off of church because of their hypocrisy, I am turned off of Democrats because of their hypocrisy, I am turned off Hollywood because of their hypocrisy, and you evidently are turned off of Republicans because of their hypocrisy.

    But this topic is about the current Hollywood "scandal" so I find it interesting too that your "point" is minimizing it by saying "Look! look! Others are hypocrites too!" Not really pertinent to topic lol....which is why I stayed on topic and gave my opinion on the current news.

    But I'm glad you agree with me, lot of time and energy and words to simply say "I understand where you're coming from"

    :2c::peace:
     
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  3. His_Highness

    His_Highness In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king

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    1,973
    Narcissism, Power Over Others, Sense of Entitlement, Lack of Self Control, Deviant Nature and Testosterone ..... it's quite the cocktail.

    I'm having a hard time believing any of the men that are admitting their indiscretions, seeking "help" for things like sex addiction and apologizing publicly would have done so if they hadn't lost the "Power over others" ingredient.

    They are still left with Narcissism, Sense of Entitlement, Lack of Self Control, Deviant Nature and Testosterone. I have a sneaking suspicion about what would happen if they regained that power.
     
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  4. CarolKing

    CarolKing Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur

    I had an older male friend that would set me down on his lap - this had gone on two other times. At 14 you are intimidated by a 30 year old. The third time he did this I jumped up because he got an errection. From then on I tried to stay away from that person. A very humiliating experience for a 14 year old. I never mentioned it to my mom. I was imbarrassed.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
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  5. Hjalmark

    Hjalmark Oldest boy alive

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    682
    Sorry being so unrestricted talking about your experience but this is exactly kind of shit that goes on day by day

    I personally have an experience where I basically got a girl and a good friend into bed because I literally got her drunk after feeling like thinks where thinks where not moving fast enough

    I never been as shamed as the day after and admitted to her that but she felt like it was her fault because we being seeing each other for some weeks

    Maybe that calmed my 18 year old self down a bit but if there some thing I wish could change something in my life, then that would be that moment

    Ruining a friendship and a change of relationship because I thought at the time sex was something a girl should give up

    Think the problem is deep rooted in our culture

    Also not "opening up" about but I would tell this story any time, it's about the only way I know how to be sorry towards that person / girl
     
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  6. dapperdopamine

    dapperdopamine Member

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    23
    I was unaware of these allegations, but I did some quick google searching and I read that his mother denied the allegations that charlie raped him on the la times. I take everything I read with a grain of salt. but, what does worry me, is a simple allegation of rape can ruin someone. with absolutely zero burden of proof. I have no doubt in my mind that harvey weinstein and people like him are sick fucks, but to go for a throwback, I still believe mike tyson was falsely charged, the court denied him the ability to have a few of his witnesses testifying his behaviour, and the woman who was " raped" was smiling while talking about it.
    obviously rape is a horrible thing, and the people who do it are horrible, but there are also horrible people who seek to ruin others, So it bothers me, that the mere accusation of something like that can ruin someone.
     
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  7. crawdad

    crawdad floatin

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    Location:
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    people are getting outed for their abusive behavior, thats a good thing. im seeing it around workplace and hearing from others in their own circles that its happening...seems a trend going on and its hard to ignore the political climate and think it has nothing to do with it. i hope this stays on the front burner for a while longer. people in all walks of life be it the powerful (politicians, celebrities, etc) or just a regular somebody who made their way while abusing others should be held accountable.
     
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  8. His_Highness

    His_Highness In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king

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    1,973
    I know a female 5th grade teacher who had a male problem child in a class a couple years back. While the child was in her class she went the extra mile to get the child some help and when the parents dropped the ball she picked it up a few times for them. Fast forward to this year....the same child called her cell after running away from home. The teacher said...."Everyone is so sensitized right now about sexual abuse I'm actually kind of worried that calling this child back now that he's not in my class and is older could become a problem/misinterpreted". She tried contacting the parents and when that didn't work called her principle before calling the child back. Some might have done nothing out of concern for their reputation and career.

    I used to manage a small CVS type store while putting myself through college when the dinosaurs roamed the earth. Occasionally I would get a compliment from a female employee about how nice I looked in a new shirt, etc. Occasionally I would return the favor. Would I complement a female co-worker without prompting like that now? Probably not.

    When something like the recent abuse allegations starts trending.... the pendulum starts to swing wildly to one side and overshoots. Until the pendulum finds it's new resting point we'll have to deal with the increased topic based scrutiny and maybe even afterwards. Some pleasantries and some helping hand items will be sacrificed and it may remain that way in some cases.

    I'll miss some of the everyday pleasantries but considering the reason for all this it's a price that should be paid.
     
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  9. crawdad

    crawdad floatin

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    2,722
    Location:
    potano territory
    i dont think making kind comments has to go away but if you are unsure about how to comment on a great looking hair do or some snazzy boots then consider talking about something you are sure of. keeping social talk wide open so "everything" is within limits of acceptability simply allows the abusers and bullies of this world to play games...game over.
     
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  10. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    775
    Coming to a theater near you:

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. trout_fishing_in_america

    trout_fishing_in_america Active Member

    Messages:
    15
    if any male members of the fc community still have trouble grasping the depth and pervasiveness of this problem, just turn one of your closest female acquaintances (mother, sister, teacher, friend, supervisor, barrista, waitress, probation officer, or lover/girlfriend/wife) and ask her:

    “So, with all this Weinstein stuff, and Kevin Spacey and Louis CK, I’ve gotta ask- did anybody ever try to pull this shit on you? Pressured you about anything sexual?”

    I’m sorry to say that I’m sure you’ll be surprised. This has been something that men are really cowards about, in terms of calling out other men for criminal abuse, and women get the message: “keep your mouth shut because we are not going to back you up.”

    Let’s get our shit together, guys, and back our sisters up!

    Ok rant over. My HI is calling. Or maybe my VC, we’ll see!
     
  12. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

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    775
    "Pressured" about "anything" "sexual"? Um...everyone?

    That's part of the problem in discussing this. There is a broad difference between Bill Cosby allegedly drugging and raping women and a consensual adult relationship where we question "consent" because of a disparity of power. Everyone (except Polanski apologists), would agree the former is wrong and should be a crime. Finding the level of the latter is much harder.

    How many years difference in age before we question the consent of the younger? Does it change depending on the absolute age of the younger person?

    How much income difference before we question consent?

    How direct must the power be before we question consent? (Is there a difference between your boss and your boss being the best friend of the person asking for consent?)

    We can go on with any of a number of disparity of power scenarios. But, the point is that if we get fuzzy on what we are talking about, we will have everyone be on edge in regards to basic life choices and actions. Mike Pence was ridiculed for stating he only dines alone with his wife. Looks like he was just ahead of the curve.
     
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  13. trout_fishing_in_america

    trout_fishing_in_america Active Member

    Messages:
    15

    Yeah.....everyone.

    Everyone is at risk of being sexually exploited, and everyone is at risk of abusing their power. Everyone who is afraid/ashamed to talk about this stuff is giving it more power.

    This news about Ray Moore is pretty insane too. Do you know what the proportion of women who were sexually assaulted as children is?

    1 in 4. That means that 1 in 4 adult women around you right now in your daily life were sexually assaulted before they were 18, like these women in Alabama.

    But most of the time they won’t talk to you about that stuff, because it’s too real and Survivors are conditioned to shut themselves down, nobody wants to hear heavy shit like that. So just ask the woman in your life about the workplace/celebrity/adult sexual abuse/harassment she’s endured, or if that’s too much, just express how much you detest that type of behavior.

    The end result is try to act like someone who she could come to for help if she ever needed to, because if there were more men who were brave enough to stand up for women, this wouldn’t be such a pervasive issue. Shame is a powerful silencer.
     
  14. Jill NYC

    Jill NYC Portable Collector

    Messages:
    114
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Ugh. I am sorry, I have been quietly sitting on the sidelines just listening to contributors to this thread, but this made me jump off the couch. The answer is NOT to isolate men and women.... that is absurd. And I use that word knowing some may say it’s just an opinion word. No, it is outright ABSURD.
    I will get back to this point in one minute, but I need to tell a story to get there.
    My first job out of college was with a major US retail company in their corporate offices. My divisional (my bosses’ boss) used to have monthly get togethers for everyone in his division. Lots of drinking, lots of dirty jokes, normal fun.
    As a 23 yr old, I loved that a superior loved to party and that he was very inclusive, even for us fresh-out-of-training kids. But his jokes sometimes made me a little uncomfortable. Won’t get into all of them, but his favorite was to say to the females basically, “why don’t you sit in my lap and see what comes up.” And then watch as a horrified woman realized it was already up. I laughed it off many times, but there was one time an intern actually did sit in his lap and as she got uncomfortable, I watched him hold her forcibly in his lap for a few minutes , horrified while most everyone laughed hysterically. Nothing more happened, as far as I know, but after that, I stopped going to his monthly events.
    And I watched as he started liking me less, and passed me over for a few promotions while his favorites (those who played along) got promoted. People who didn’t deserve it, mostly guys. And believe me, I am very hard on myself-but even I knew I deserved a promotion more than they did.
    But since I no longer played along because of how uncomfortable he made me feel, I Lost out on major networking opportunities. And networking is a HUGE part of most every career path.
    I still have shame to this day for not speaking up about that issue (and a few others that I am not going to get into) because I didn’t want to be labeled a troublemaker or “difficult.”
    But getting back to what I consider an ABSURD comment... what Pence does by refusing to dine alone with a woman, but has no problem with men one-on-one, is just one more way of suppressing women in the political world. Networking, dining, having a cordial relationship with coworkers, clients, etc is essential in most every industry...most definitely in politics.


    **Edit: sorry if my point didn’t come across here properly. The point I am trying to make is that the solution to sexual harassment/assault in the workplace is NOT separating males and females. Sorry if I came across as overly defensive, but this Pence thing really pushes buttons for me.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
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  15. dapperdopamine

    dapperdopamine Member

    Messages:
    23
    That is really fucked up, for a few minutes, and there was just a jovial laughing going on while he forcibly held her? thats really weird.
    Im of the mind that people should be allowed to say any variety of fucked up shit they want, but absolutely not put their hands on others.
    side point
    Sometimes I lack perspective on these things but with the whole louis ck thing, I cant for the life of me understand why they stayed there, or why anyone would stay in a position where someone was beating off in front of them and it made them uncomfortable. I just did some reading on it because I was uninformed, and evidently he asked them if he could and they ok'd it, supposedly or atleast thats what I gathered, if thats the case though, what is the real issue. granted im not a woman and I dont know what it feels like to be one, but I had a guy in a public park grab my dick and ask me to fuck him, i told him to fuck off I walked away ( I was actually reading a book and he asked me about so I thought he was genuinely interested in literature stupid me) But besides a minor annoyance it was a non issue to me, and all my friends thought it was hilarious and laughed. thats not to say that its ok, and that just because i was not affected others wouldnt be but my point is and sorry for rambling this happens when I stay up late at night. Louis is being grouped with harvey wienstien, which is like treating a murderer and someone who robbed a cvs the same.
     
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  16. Jill NYC

    Jill NYC Portable Collector

    Messages:
    114
    Location:
    New York, NY
    @dapperdopamine You’re right, it was fucked up, and weird. But to give you a better picture, she tried to get off and he kind of bear hugged her and said something that was very “aww, come on we’re all just having fun here” kind of way. Her getting off his lap became more awkward than just playing along. It was in the early/mid 90’s, so silence was much more common.
    Plus, I know for me, I blamed myself for not finding the humor and being too sensitive. It wasn’t until I was close to my 30’s before it really hit me why what had happened was so disturbing. In my early 20’s I was much more naive and “eager to please.” If that happened today or even 5 years after that event I wouldn’t stand for it for a second. I think age/maturity/experience allows you to listen to the alarm in your head much quicker than when you are younger. I can’t speak on behalf of all women, but I know a few of my friends had experiences of their own, and had a similar “ignore the alarm, nothing terrible is happening, play along, you’re making a big deal out of nothing” feeling. Again, I am still ashamed of myself for not speaking up back then, but you can bet your ass, I would never let that happen again.

    **Edit. Btw, your story is messed up as well. To me, that was a much more obvious “stranger, danger” action, and even the younger me would have also told that guy to fuck off, as you did. Nicely done.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017 at 12:41 AM
  17. Pussyholeyute

    Pussyholeyute Member

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    34
    This is pretty crazy. Feel weird thinking who might be next
     
  18. crawdad

    crawdad floatin

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    Location:
    potano territory
    i feel terrible thinking who might be the next victim for someone who has yet to be outed.
     
  19. Hjalmark

    Hjalmark Oldest boy alive

    Messages:
    682
    God damn that story is so fucked up ...

    I wonder if we are getting less desensitized or more openly speaking about it?
    Like you ever wonder if you were less moral person born in a different time or a place?

    Even though it's also uh objective after that reasoning?

    Yeah I think I am too high and tired to really comment now but I was reading the sub earlier and wondering about some of this stuff

    :zzz:
     
  20. CarolKing

    CarolKing Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur

    The people and the citizens of Alabama should be standing by the women who say that Roy Moore molested or tried to be inappropriate with them as teenagers. He sounds like the mall creep trying to hit on all the pretty teen girls that either worked or hung out at the mall. He had to be banned eventually! I heard this man on TV trying to say these women made it all up. Roy Moore's credibility doesn't fly. Then trying to act like a man of god, what a hypocritical idiot. It's too bad he can't be sued. People like him gives Christianity a bad name.

    Too many people are saying the same thing and they sound credible. More credible than Mr. Moore. He needs to be humiliated and forced to retire.

    Hopefully this is a turning point for men and women regarding how everyone should and deserves to be treated.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017 at 9:26 PM
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  21. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    775
    Recent allegations against Al Franken are far more recent and have physical proof. (Photograph)

    Should a sitting senator be removed for such allegations?

    To me, while trying to get people not to vote for a person because of allegations is a good and wonderful thing to do, punishing a person judged in the "court" of public opinion to be guilty is stupid.

    Yet, that is what our representatives seem to want. Once the genie of allegations is out of the bottle, you can't put it back in--or defend against it. I suspect there are a lot of politicians calling for a head on a spike who think that, somehow, they won't get the same treatment. After all, it was only a joke.
     
  22. Danksta

    Danksta Well-Known Member

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    599
    What about the stuff that goes on in our scene? This is a very male dominated industry. I'm not just talking about trimmers getting harassed. I'm not sure what the cure is. Humans are naturally prone to do some evil stuff sadly and changing the mass culture will take decades.

    Interesting times we live in...

    EDIT: Don't forget there are lots of women who have allowed this to go on and have sick fantasies themselves. Guys like Feinstein were not only protected by other men. Plenty of women in hollywood who claim to be a feminist are the total opposite and protect their sick culture.

    Sickos come in all forms. Men are not the only ones doing dirty things.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017 at 4:52 PM
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  23. howie105

    howie105 Well-Known Member

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    1,203
    ....Putting the incident in context of a USO show, the location and time it was done an individual could have one perspective. While another individual with another set of experiences and expectations can have a different perspective. What annoys most is the insistence that one side is either all right or all wrong. It is in part the social media thing where folks tend to just spin in circles and proclaim their positional superiority when they discuss something.
     
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  24. CarolKing

    CarolKing Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur

    Our "pussy" grabbing president should keep his mouth shut because he has some skeletons in his closet. Sounds like he's the king of sexual inappropriateness. I'm disappointed with Al Frankin. He wasn't a senator yet but I don't care, he was way out of line with that women. Very degrading, something that she never forgot. It wasn't funny him pretending to put his hands on her breasts while she was sleeping, that photo that was taken and shown on the news.
     
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  25. howie105

    howie105 Well-Known Member

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    1,203
    They are taking a problem and turning it into a political and media exploit. The vast majority of victims (real citizens) are not getting their concerns addressed, but celebrities, political operatives and click dependent advertisers are making out. I am all in favor of folks standing with those within reach and taking care of the problem that way.
     
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