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Rick Simpson oil

Discussion in 'Concentrates' started by NYC5IKH5jabi, Mar 18, 2013.

  1. NYC5IKH5jabi

    NYC5IKH5jabi Well-Known Member

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    217
    Hey guys I have a question and where else could I get an honest answer but here? Lol I recently was trying to figure out who is right in the pro or con Rick Simpson naphtha oil debate. Some places keep mentioning that the naptha is never 100% removed after extraction and that lab tests of the oil and tests of urine samples of users confirm that naptha is ingested via the oil. And then there's all the testimonials of people who make it just the way Rick advises and dont give a second thought to these dangers. which one is right? is there any 100% safe way to make high quality oil for cancer etc with an absolute zero amount of harmful impurities? ( plant matter and chlorophyll isnt a big deal when your ingesting) Plus I've often seen that ricks extraction and end product can't be much better or purer then properly purged bho or iso or even a simple aged tincture. Wouldn't these all still have the same merit for medicinal patients as the naptha made oil?
     
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  2. jambandphan03

    jambandphan03 Vapor Goddess

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    5,430
    I do know that Rick has suggested that you can also use ISO *highest % you can find 91-99 is common* to get a good extraction instead of Naptha, but I have also been keeping up with RSO info as it comes along and have heard a few contrary remarks about using alcohol to extract, as if it's grabbing up too much chlorophyll, diluting your oil. I guess if you did it using the qwiso method (frozen) it would pick up less chlorophyll, I usually make qwiso and have used alcohol 99% iso, to make oils for ingesting and also topical use. I have not worked with Naptha at all, so I have no experience with it, and can not tell you how potent or pure my oils are because I do not have a way to test them. Sadly, it seems most of us are just stuck having to guess right now, and are just lucky to be able to make any kind of oils, as there is limited access to real solid information. Some viable research is going on in other countries, and in the US as well, but until we get this thing fully out of the closet, we will not be able to get the answers we seek. There is a lot of complaints about people making and selling RSO that is not nearly pure enough for terminally ill patients to be relying on to save them. Probably from using trim instead of bud for the extraction.
     
  3. NYC5IKH5jabi

    NYC5IKH5jabi Well-Known Member

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    217
    I've had co2 wax and that's supposedly safer but it's greenish yellow in color and not as potent
     
  4. scottio19

    scottio19 scotty

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    Location:
    Bay Area, California
    Naptha is a dirty solvent compared to lab grade n-hexane, it has a bunch of different hydrocarbons with different boiling points, some higher than hexane. So, harder to purge, and more likely to leave nasties behind.

    After reading his instructions, he only says to heat purge! He doesn't even mention measuring the temperature. Do not do this, even with hexane oil the solvent remains after heat purging. I always re-dissolve the oil in ISO and evaporate, repeating at least once or twice.

    I wonder why Simpson makes his cancer medicine out of something so particularly carcinogenic. The only reason to use naptha is because it is cheaper than hexane.
     
  5. Roger D

    Roger D Vapor Wizard

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    1,115
    Solvents are more or less impure.. That and the budget for a clean setup are what's keeping me off experimenting concentrates. I feel safer using flowers. If I could have access to lab tested stuff I would really enjoy for sure.

    This petroleum based product freaks me out.
     
    NYC5IKH5jabi likes this.
  6. jambandphan03

    jambandphan03 Vapor Goddess

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    5,430
    I am still curious to know how much difference in potency there is between the concentrates made with solvents, and water hash (bubble bags).
     
    Roger D likes this.
  7. NYC5IKH5jabi

    NYC5IKH5jabi Well-Known Member

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    I feel the same but I'm gonna dab for now. This wasn't ever really gonna be long term thing for me regardless if dabbing is safe or not I can't imagine to be 30 years old and still have time for this lol

    I see. And properly purged bho? Would that also need more iso washing before being pure medication for ailing patients? And could bho wax also be purged enough to be of benefit to a patient for topical, oral application?
     
  8. Puffers

    Puffers Micro-Climate Mastermind

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    1,005
    Location:
    Cali, Bay Area
    I have used RS Oil and can attest to witnessing the merits of using cannabis oil for cancer treatment. I can also attest that using Ricks method for extraction is what I would consider far from perfect. The chlorophyll in the oil was overpowering and unpleasant, with large doses seemed to upset my stomach a bit. Mine was made with iso using Ricks method. If i was to do it again i would either do a qwiso or bho and decarb my oil. I really don't think in this case though that you have to use a solvent extraction, as long as you are up-taking mass quantities of cannabinoids the more the better. Solvent extracted oil just makes it easier to intake those quantities, imo you could make really strong coconut oil or butter and eat it it regularly it would just be more time consuming and not feasible for some who are really sick. :2c: Good luck

    Treatment of Alzheimers using decarb`d bho extracts: http://skunkpharmresearch.com/alzheimers-mom-and-cannabis/

    Really good site for the kind of topics you are researching.
     
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  9. vorrange

    vorrange Well-Known Member

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    2,234
    I have been researching a bit more about RSO this past days myself, so this thread is quite a coincidence.

    I have heard inumerous times about the medicinal properties of cannabis and its array of applications from food to fuel, but i've been thinking more and more about using a powerfull extract like RSO to eat (i don't want to dab into super tolerance) since the concentrated effect of the cannabinoids potentiate the medicinal properties of the plant.

    It was my understanding while researching that Rick Simpson just did his own version of thc extraction and in a trial-and-error kind of way. And about the potential harm of a wrongly performed purge, it seems that the oil balances that, much in the same way that smoking pure cannabis does not cause cancer like smoking tobacco because of it's anti-tumor properties.

    I also heard that RSO was 80% THC, and imo the concentration of cannabinoids is what provides the medical value and not the way you extract, right?
    If it is so, then, an extraction whether its an iso or butane extraction is as better as the concentration of THC.

    Does anyone know if it's possible to judge cannabinoid concentration by colour or density of the oil? This would bypass the need to run it through a lab.. back in 2000AC there weren't many ways to gauge this as well.
     
  10. dannkk

    dannkk Well-Known Member

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    Disclaimer: I'm no expert on this

    It's actually cool that you link SkunkPharm. On that blog, there is actually a link to a podcast with Rick Simson and the writer of that blog(i forgot his name) as guests.

    Rick pretty much invented the oil in a modern sense. It's not new, people have been making oils from cannabis forever, but the backyard, DIY modern oil, Rick started it. This is why his method is so bad. Everyone else, took what he did, and ran with it.

    In this podcast, though, the guy from SkunkPharm blasts on Rick for using naptha, and in this conversation Rick pretty much says that the solvent doesn't matter. The important parts are 1. Flowers only 2. Strong indica strains 3. Decarb the oil 4. 90 grams over 90 days.

    Rick also mentions that his extraction process has changed a lot since he made the video everyone has seen. He also says some things that I don't think could be true. Like saying reclaim from vaporizers is the strongest oil there is lol.

    Here's a link to the podcast: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/papsite-radio/2013/02/02/one-and-a-half-hours-of-sensibility
     
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  11. vorrange

    vorrange Well-Known Member

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    2,234
    Does he says anything about evaluating potency of the oil? And when you say 90g over 90days, you mean, eat 1g/day of oil?

    Also, how do you decarb the oil? Same as with flowers?, heating at 120C in an oven?
     
  12. dannkk

    dannkk Well-Known Member

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    293
    lol...Check out my disclaimer once again. I suggest you go to the source with these types of questions. I'm looking through the previous shows for that podcast and there's a ton of info there, and it looks like they regularly do call ins. They talk specifically about this subject i.e. treating cancer with cannabis...a subject I know nothing about.
     
    vorrange likes this.
  13. Puffers

    Puffers Micro-Climate Mastermind

    Messages:
    1,005
    Location:
    Cali, Bay Area
    Quality of concentrate can be hard to pin down, viscosity and appearance of the oil can differ depending on its state of decarb and to a certain extent the strain. Rick does recommend ideally eating a gram of oil a day or more. If you use ricks method of extraction its decarb'ed as its purged, but letting the iso sit in there while you slowly cook it out is also how you extract all that plant matter that can upset your stomach or make pretty unpalatable unless you cap em. If you decarb say a bho oil you can heat it up at about 250 until the bubbles stop. The bubbles are the decarb actively taking place in your oil. At this point i would personally use a coconut oil base, and soy lechitin for maximum absorption, bio-availability, and homogenization for proper, consistent dosing.

    I have only seen bubble extracts in the 50% range (although i have seen pictures of really good bubble that i would guess exceeds the 60% ), solvent extractions without being lab refined can hit in the high 80's if test results are to be believed. That would make 25-30% higher cannabinoid concentration in solvent extractions favor a pretty general number as far as raw purity is concerned. Bubble hash though imo keeps a lot of flavor and "soul" of the plant by leaving the plant trichromes unmolested in mother natures glory. Under magnification really pure sifted hash looks like some beautiful crazy diamonds or something its GLORIOUS :bowdown:
    [​IMG]
    :drool:
     
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  14. fake name

    fake name Well-Known Member

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    295
    Location:
    huh?
    You'll know naphtha isn't consistent, right? Its a collection of various hydrocarbons, and the mix is different depending on brand. we should specify that we are talking about light naphtha, contents boil at 90 degrees C or less; heavy naptha is completely unusable since its heaviers boil at 200 degrees C.

    The only light naphtha that i would not advise against would be Shellite which they have out in aussie-land, it's basically straight petroleum ether. Anything in America has too many heavies, at least of what I've looked into.
     
  15. scottio19

    scottio19 scotty

    Messages:
    186
    Location:
    Bay Area, California
    Yes ISO washing would work, but since butane has such a low boiling point many people just vacuum purge.

    I don't know whether it would be of benefit to a patient, is it the cannabinoid content supposed to be what makes these oils medicine? It'd be a shame if the cancer-fighting part of weed was polar and we are actually removing it when applying these methods :doh:
     
  16. fake name

    fake name Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    295
    Location:
    huh?
    The studies I've read and seen referenced have attributed cancer stopping properties to cbd, which is fairly similar to thc. the polarites are slightly different because of the center ring in thc isn't connected in cbd:

    http://www.unodc.org/images/odccp/bulletin/bulletin_1964-01-01_4_page005_img002_large.gif

    So, based on the diagram the overall polarity should be close enough that they both will be dissolved by agressive non-polar solvents. I believe it, CBD, is hydrocarbon miscible, but I am not completely certain.
     
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  17. vorrange

    vorrange Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,234
    So the option for butane extractions stems from a higher cannabinoid concentration? And is it possible to achieve similar results with ethanol or other less hazardous solvents?
     
  18. scottio19

    scottio19 scotty

    Messages:
    186
    Location:
    Bay Area, California
    ^ I have heard of people using d-limonene, a very nonpolar food-safe solvent. (Pure Gold from Tetralabs is 5% d-limo) It is only for edibles though, as the finished product cannot be smoked due to residual solvent.

    With a polar solvent like ethanol or isopropyl alcohol, the only thing you can really do is a quick wash. A friend of mine likes to make hash using an ice method, which he qwisos to make oil.
     
    vorrange likes this.
  19. NYC5IKH5jabi

    NYC5IKH5jabi Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    217
    Ingesting and applying directly on skin? Most cancer patients have no desire to smoke anyway. But many cant ingest and need to apply on the skin for certain ailments. I've heard of people taking a dab of oil to knuckles for a month to cure gout and after the month is over the gout doesn't return even though after the month the user hasn't taken any oil! This plant rejuvenates our body!
     
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  20. SD_haze

    SD_haze MMJ Vaporist

    Messages:
    3,207
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Wow :cool:

    This just popped up at a local dispensary:

    "10 grams - RSHO CBD HEMP OIL PASTE Applicator
    Real Scientific Hemp Oil is a Hemp-Based Cannabidiol CBD Dietary Supplement Program. 19.5% CBD" - $500
     
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  21. darkrom

    darkrom Great Scott!

    Messages:
    3,328
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I saw that online. They can ship to all 50 states. It was $650 where I saw it. I wish I had the money right now to try that out.
     
  22. Jimmythewah

    Jimmythewah New Member

    Messages:
    2
    I just invested in a Co2 super-critical extractor. I am very pleased with how clean and fragrant the oil produced is. It is as pure as it comes. I was told by a friend that is pure RSO. After my research is sounds like he uses naptha as a solvent not C02. I have not decarbed it yet. It is a little thick in the vape. I am thinking to thin it with glycerol? Could I decarb an oil that would both vape and be used in edibles?
    Once decarbed will any THC that was created in the process be lost when vaped?
    Still early in the R&D.
    Its a brave new world?
     
  23. darkrom

    darkrom Great Scott!

    Messages:
    3,328
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    IMO you should keep it straight c02 oil, not thin it with anything. You can vape it in a variety of methods as is, but more importantly sick people will not want the added PG most likely when ingesting it. RSO is apparently more effective when ingested.

    Congrats on getting a Co2 extraction setup by the way!
     
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  24. Havelock Vetenari

    Havelock Vetenari Patrician

    Messages:
    440
    Location:
    Below sealevel.
    Not only can his methods be much improved,i've always had grave misgivings about some of the statements he makes...:nope:
    For a counterpoint check out Dr. Lester Grinspoon reply on the "Rick Simpson’s Hemp-Oil Medicine"-piece in the high Times of jan. 2010 :
    http://www.hightimes.com/read/medical-marijuana-note-caution
    I use 99.8% alcohol absolutus or Colibri for my concentrate extractions and with the alcohol i can get it quite clear,doing a very cold and short alcoholwash.
    But that probably isn't the most efficient and will involve some loss or necessitate a second(longer/warmer) run to get all the goodies out.
    However i don't think getting a bit more cholorophyl in your endproduct need be such a bad thing.
    In hempseed-oil it's actually listed as a beneficial ingredient and a brief,slight bitter taste in your mouth seems a small inconvenience for a lot of benefit.;)
     
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  25. bubbha ho-tep

    bubbha ho-tep Member

    Messages:
    49

    Hey there i know this is a really old post but i listened to the podcast you linked here while i was at work, thanks for that btw, i just wanted to touch on a few things that i felt i viewed a bit differently than you did,
    First i think the guy your referring to that was giving rick shit for naphtha aka bob lol was not giving him shit for naphtha he was giving him shit for Ether,
    And i think that bob guy was a know it all dick that just like to use big words and kept going off
    Subject the whole time nit picking everything rick
    would say,
    Also rick stated that he felt that naphtha and
    ether made the most potent medicinal oil,
    He did say that other solvents would still be a
    good medicine but he thought naphtha and ether
    made the absolute best extraction.
    With that being said i am myself am very hesitant
    to use either. Especially ether.
    I also personally really think rick is on to
    somthing with the vapeorizer reclaim. What hes
    talking about is essentially a distilling process for
    making oil with only heat. If that were possible
    that would be the purest oil there was. And he
    also said the reclaim that he used was mixtures
    of over a dozen different oils and i personally
    Vape reclaim alot and its not nothin to fuck
    around with it gets me very medicated.
    Last opinion i have is that everyone doesn't need
    to decarb there oil, if you plan on eating it then
    yes but if your going to be vaping that shit theres
    no need your vaporizer will do that for you.
    Oh and one more thing the lab specialist that was
    on the podcast said they have tested naphtha,
    bho, co2, etc.. And in all of them there was some
    residual solvents left behind but the parts per
    millions are so small if you were to put it into a
    percentage it would be purer than 99.9% witch is
    such a small amount that rick thinks the medical propertys of the cannibis would cancle that out anyway....
    With that being said though i think i still feel personally safest with 190 proof ethanol or 99.8% iso.
    But these are all just my opinions based on what
    ive researched so far over the few months and
    after listening to this awsome pod cast.
    I hope everyone keeps spreading the word about
    this merical oil its seem to have really helped alot
    of people and is the real deal. If more people
    really knew about this and really understood it
    and dident look at it like how its portrayed,
    I feel like alot of people would start opening there
    eyes, and not only on this but on other things in the world in general.
    Peace FC.
     
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