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PBW & the Chemistry of Clean

Discussion in 'Glass' started by t-dub, Dec 8, 2012.

  1. John Lewus

    John Lewus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    515
    I am thinking of trying this but had a few questions (skip to end if you don't care about my process). I only vape through a Mobius stereo matrix so my resin buildup is not too bad. About every 3 days I let it soak in just iso for a bit and use some pipe brushes to break off the honey that accumulates at the joint. I reuse my iso for a few weeks until it starts to not look clear. At the very end I usually flush with some water or sometimes just let the iso evaporate with some strong airflow. I then turn on a shop vac and let it pull air through the Mobius for about 2 or 3 minutes. This has worked well for me and gets my glass very clean but it does leave a film on the inside that I can't quite wipe. It is like spraying windex on glass but not wiping it off. Once I fill it with some water it looks crystal clear but how can I make my glass look sparkling new as if I used windex and a cloth to wipe down the inside?

    Does PBW leave any kind of film on the inside like iso does for me?

    Is it recommended to dry it through a shop vac or does letting it air dry work and still leave it sparkling?

    On a side note I just bought some rez block and waiting for it to be delivered. I am hoping I can go down to once every 5 or 6 days for cleaning.
  2. t-dub

    t-dub Vapor Sloth

    Messages:
    4,049
    Location:
    Oregon
    Nice to hear from you Mr. Lewus :) I love your shopvac idea, I have one in the garage . . . :hmm:

    PBW is the definition of squeaky clean, and I mean "squeeeeeeeaky" . . . virtually spotless. Now if you are looking for "optically pure" glass, I would start with PBW, dry with the shopvac, then if needed upon inspection proceed with a solvent rinse (acetone)

    Good call on the RezBlock, I love the new formula, I need to get off my lazy rear end and start that diffuser medium thread . . .

    Edit: Remember, do not run solvent vapors through a shopvac, there are sparks in the electric motor that can ignite the fumes, which of course will cause an explosion . . . :nope:
    John Lewus likes this.
  3. John Lewus

    John Lewus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    515
    Hey T-dub. Thanks for your quick reply. I was just about to head off to the gym for a workout and will swing by the beer brewery shop only a mile away. The timing for finding this thread is perfect because I am out of dextrose for my post workout protein shake so I can pick up both that and PBW. I am eager to try it on my Hydratube. I don't use my hydratube right now because I find it is too much work to keep clean. Because of how the air goes up, then back down, then back up again causes a lot of honey to accumulate on the tube inside the glass that is not possible to reach with a brush. I have to shake like a mad man to get that perfectly clean even after only 3 or 4 sessions.

    The shop vac works really well for quickly drying a piece. It works great on the Hydratubes as well. I need to think of a way to make a shopvac to 19mm joint adapter so I can just let it run for 5 minutes and not have to hold it the whole time. I was drying the iso without a rinse but never considered that it could spark. I think the chance of that is very rare considering where the motor is, how long the tube is, and how much iso is really evaporating off at a time but definitely worth considering.

    I bought my rez block off a re-seller off Amazon. It comes in 8oz so hopefully it is the new formula. I did not even know there were different formulas out there. I have no idea how long that would last in a Mobius piece but am eager to try it out. I am pretty sure I got the idea to use rez block from you in the Cloud thread. I remember seeing you (I am pretty sure it was your post) show some pics of the green rez block a long time ago and more recently some red rez block for xmas. It should arrive today so I am eager to try it out later after my workout.
  4. t-dub

    t-dub Vapor Sloth

    Messages:
    4,049
    Location:
    Oregon
    I know I'm mother henning a little about the vacuum explosion but always, always, always, safety first m'kay? ;)

    For that hard to reach spot on your HT try making one of these to go with your PBW:

    http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/ht-flush-device.7263/

    On the RezBlock, 8 oz will be the green or original formula, so enjoy it, but get the new, red concentrate, next time. Just be aware if you dilute that formula below a certain limit, or push it too far, you will get algae growth in your glass since the salt won't be in a high enough concentration to do its job. The new formula, in addition to being just plain better, also has citric acid. This is a big addition, I have been test vaping through citic acid solutions for a little while now testing various PH levels, because it adds an additional emulsification to the process as well as being a sanitizer and combating hard water stains :)

    Please keep us updated on your results :)
    SativaLover420 likes this.
  5. vape4life

    vape4life Banned for life

    Messages:
    2,020
    Thought I bought this at my local home brew store, but it turned out to be a pink detergent. Just bought a pound of it on eBay and looking forward to using it to clean my ELBs and HT and save on the ISO a little more. THANKS OP!
  6. Eric

    Eric Member

    Messages:
    1
    Thanks for the advice. I will quit using the shopvac with just iso and rinse first. I got my PBW and will try sometime in the next day. Do you think adding a bit of table salt to my green rezblock would help?
  7. t-dub

    t-dub Vapor Sloth

    Messages:
    4,049
    Location:
    Oregon
    Green RezBlock is full of salt . . . I can't imagine it would help or hurt to add more. Just don't over dilute and you'll be fine.
  8. Roger D

    Roger D Vapor Wizard

    Messages:
    1,063
    We have to find some kind of product for guys like me who can't get some rezblocker. Did you tried to use glycerin like in the new version ? All the ingredients are available except the mysterious extract
  9. t-dub

    t-dub Vapor Sloth

    Messages:
    4,049
    Location:
    Oregon
    Hey Roger, have not tried glycerin yet.

    ok guys I created a RezBlock thread to continue this discussion, thanks again for everyones interest and participation :)

    http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/rezblock.8060/
    SativaLover420 likes this.
  10. Frederick McGuire

    Frederick McGuire Aggressively Loungey

    Messages:
    2,491
    Location:
    Cannabacchus
    OK, my results are in :science:

    Here are some before pics:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The Story behind the buildup:
    My Matrix is easily my most used glass piece by far.
    I get a decent amount of particulate buildup inside the downstem, so I normally run a pipe cleaner down it when I'm doing an ISO rinse.
    After letting it go that bit too long between cleans enough times, a persistent brownish discoloration started to develop.

    The above pics show 2 kinds of buildup; The persistent browning I just mentioned, and the whitish cloudiness that clears up with a quick ISO rinse.

    I figured I may as well leave the light residue and give the PBW a proper test.

    The Clean:
    I ran some hot water through the bubbler, just to get everything warmed up.
    I wasn't sure how much PBW to add, so I tried adding half a tea spoon, and then filled with hot tap water up to the joint.

    I probably could've rustled up something to use as a stopper in the joint and fill the neck, but my main concern was the buildup in the can, so I didn't bother.

    These pics are straight after I added the water:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    These are about 5-10 mins later:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    So after about 15-20 more minutes, it didn't look like the PBW was doing much more.

    I dumped the water/PBW solution, gave it a rinse, and repeated the process, but with more PBW, maybe 2-3 teaspoons worth.

    The solution ended up similar to the pics above, but more opaque. So I figure the 1st wash didn't have enough PBW in there. It certainly started to lift the browning though.

    15-20 minutes later, I dumped out the 2nd wash, and gave the bubbler another rinse out.
    All of the browning was gone :science:
    There was still some odd light clouding around the top half of the bub after the rinse, so I gave it a 3rd go with the PBW.

    After the 3rd PBW/Hot water wash, these are the results I got:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    :brow:
    :whoa:
    :science:
    :bowdown:

    Needless to say, I'm very pleased with the results :D

    It won't be replacing ISO entirely, as I like the reclaim, and it's more convenient in some situations, but PBW will certainly be a valuable tool in my cleaning arsenal from now on.
    OMEiAM, oldiebutgoodie, vtac and 7 others like this.
  11. Roger D

    Roger D Vapor Wizard

    Messages:
    1,063
    Really nice result ! You just need a plug the hole to fill the mouth piece with the product
    I just got some low environmental impact powders from the mail. I'm on the way to try a new recipe, 1/4 sodium bicarbonate ; 1/4 sodium percarbonate ; 1/2 calgon

    It could be even less aggressive while conserving results

    I bought a pair of cotton lined gloves, its so much more comfortable than raw latex, they are even machine washable, its really a nice cleaning tool
    t-dub likes this.
  12. Your Highness

    Your Highness Cannasseur

    Messages:
    268
    Location:
    Outer Space
    I think a longer soak...maybe like an hour and you would have been good to go without repeating the process. I love this stuff.
  13. Stu

    Stu Maconheiro Staff Member

    Messages:
    5,021
    Location:
    Southeast of Disorder
    Is it necessary to wear gloves when using this stuff?

    :peace:
  14. Roger D

    Roger D Vapor Wizard

    Messages:
    1,063
    Not necessary but preferable. I never used PBW but a home made equivalent, anyway theses products are never good on hands. The gloves are also here for the heat and this is the main reason for me trying them in the first place.

    My new powder recipe seems to rinse even better. Now it has like zero smell even without a vinegar rinse

    I dented my cheapo 14 to 18 adapter while cleaning. My habit was to put it in a drinking glass with the product and hot water, and the silicone pieces. That was a bad idea, glass don't like glass :(. I should have used another recipient. Next time I will use some plastic.

    It is still working (I would have a hard time getting medicated the way I like it without) but I'm afraid its gonna fall apart sooner or later. I need to find a new one, even a couple of new ones. You can't rely on a single piece of glass. I need another bubbler too. Just one piece, its kind of a tragedy if you break it, you can't get the experience you need
  15. HighlyEducatedScholar

    HighlyEducatedScholar Student of Vapor

    Messages:
    583
    wow Frederick, those are some really great results you got there! :clap:

    as Your Highness mentioned, do you think you could have achieved the same results with a longer soak time and maybe a more concentrated solution of PBW? or do you think that the process of 3 different rinses is what helped you eliminate the particulates and cloudiness?
  16. Frederick McGuire

    Frederick McGuire Aggressively Loungey

    Messages:
    2,491
    Location:
    Cannabacchus
    A longer dwell time on the 2nd soak probably would've done the job.

    I'm pretty sure there just wasn't enough PBW in the first run to do much without a really long soak.

    I'm quite certain I would've got by with only the 2nd run if I gave it longer. It looked done when I dumped out the 2nd rinse, it's only because of the slight remaining cloudiness that I gave it a 3rd run.

    I'm thinking now I'm gonna have to knock up something like the HT flush device to make dealing with the hot water more manageable.

    EDIT:
    How well does this stuff work on combustion resin?
    I'd love to be able to give my combustion buddies an easy way to clean their glass... Then maybe they'd actually do it sometimes...

    Also, I remember reading somewhere that PBW doesn't really work with cool water.
    Does it really need hot water, or does that just speed up the process?
    t-dub likes this.
  17. t-dub

    t-dub Vapor Sloth

    Messages:
    4,049
    Location:
    Oregon
    Remember guys, filth is deposited and removed in layers. The bottom line is that soil builds up and if it is not removed completely each time your equipment is used, it will just get harder and harder to remove. There will always be a trade off between dwell time and hot water (energy)/chemical strength(energy) and repeated application. Thats why 3 quick washes will work like 1 very long one. Also, the reaction does the most at first while the water is hottest and the chemical strongest. You can see the bubbles from the oxidizer doing its job, fizzing, reacting and breaking stuff down, but it stops in a few minutes. So for a heavily soiled item you wish to clean quickly, you will need hot water, a high concentration of PBW, about a 10 minute dwell time between each wash, repeat until clean. Otherwise soak overnight. Once things are clean, routine maintenance becomes very quick and easy.

    Cleaning essentials :)
    http://www.ecologiccleansers.com/essentials.php


    [​IMG]
  18. John Lewus

    John Lewus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    515
    I am not sure if I am doing this right because I tried twice and neither got it as clean as iso. My Mobius started clean and I used it maybe 6 times with some friends so there was some of the white stuff building up on the side walls. I let it soak for 15 min in hot water with about 1 table spoon of PBW and it hardly made a dent. I let it then soak for 12 hours with about a tablespoon of PBW (maybe a bit less) and it got a lot cleaner but still had a bit of filmy white stuff sticking to the tube. I ran some iso through it and it immediately came off. Am I not using enough PBW because when I put it in and ran it through not all of it got absorbed so I shook it a bit? I am filling up my entire Mobius which can hold a decent amount of water so is there a recommended amount to use?

    On another note can someone tell me where the original post is showing how to make a tube and stopper connected to a faucet to flush out your piece? I thought I saw it in the cloud thread months ago but I can't find it anywhere.
  19. nopartofme

    nopartofme               

    Messages:
    871
    Location:
    The Golden Age of Wireless
    Here you go:
    http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/ht-flush-device.7263/
    John Lewus likes this.
  20. John Lewus

    John Lewus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    515
    Thanks nopartofme!
    nopartofme likes this.
  21. mvapes

    mvapes Surrounded by the healthy!

    Messages:
    4,234
    Location:
    On Shakey Ground
    i just found a good deal on Straight - A on amazon. Is this what you would recommend for a fritted disk? Would it dissolve DG's label?
  22. t-dub

    t-dub Vapor Sloth

    Messages:
    4,049
    Location:
    Oregon
    I tried Straight-A which is similar to PBW and it did not do as well. It left a film as a result of the missing surfactants (wetting agents) I would guess. PBW is a better, all purpose, cleaner. As far as labels go, I said this before, and I will say it again, I will not say these products are label safe because they aren't. I have had mixed results but the potential for label destruction is there. Consider the fact that Straight-A was invented to remove labels from beer bottles . . .

    Cleaning a fritted disc properly was one reason I started on this quest in the first place, PBW does an excellent job maintaining DA Disc :freak:
  23. lreindl

    lreindl Pacific NW

    Messages:
    230
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    So will this fade my DG Rooster? I might as well return the order I bought on Amazon if that is the case.
  24. GOATPUSSY

    GOATPUSSY Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    170

    Damn... That shit'll be fucked up if it gets rid of your cock!
    Tweek and Tweak like this.
  25. lreindl

    lreindl Pacific NW

    Messages:
    230
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I heard that...

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