Obama's respons (to the F'ing raids in Cali this week)

dannkk

Well-Known Member
They get paid to collect money. They write tickets and give fines. Arrest people that must pay court fees. The police are a source of revenue for the city.

In that situation, those people would have to call the police. Police have a monopoly. If they did anything else, they'd be breaking the law.
 

Tea Party

Boro Connoisseur
I did not say that. I said the police should just shoot those people. It just so happens they don't contribute to society.

You wanna voice your opinion, go for it. Wannaknock the windshield out of an exotic car? get fucked.
 
Tea Party,

Tea Party

Boro Connoisseur
How about I come to your home and smash all your things and we'll see what you have to say.
 
Tea Party,
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WatTyler

Revolting Peasant
To it is NOT going to be anywhere near enough money to pay for it all. In case you guys have forgotten I will repost this, go watch the #'s spin a while. THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH TAXES TO MAKE UP $49,000/SECOND!!! When interest rates go up, and they will, the payments on the debt immediately become unaffordable, and MOST of the debt is SHORT term rolling over within the next 3 years . . .

http://usdebtclock.org/

Meh (:brow:) c'mon t-dub, the debt issue is somewhat like that of the illegal immigration issue IMO- alarmist propaganda used by sinister political forces seeking more power. Government debt is sensational but misunderstood, and it plays into certain parties hands for it to be so. It's nothing like normal debt, but unfortunately we're all personally very debt averse following this uncertain economy and personal lifestyle changes, and so it's an issue that gets a lot of attention- like that sensationalist debt clock website.

It's [debt] not irresponsible IMHO, quite the opposite, and nearly every country is rightly addressing deficit during such difficult times. It's important, responsible and the key job of government to balance the swings and roundabouts over the longer term, not the shorter alarmist term that benefits the bad men and enables rash decisions that hurt those on the bottom of the heap the most. Unfortunately politics often works on the shorter scale 'till the next election.

At ~85% of GDP the UK has a worse debt than the USA, as do many countries in the world in this time of economic difficulty. The germans are at 94%, apparently (even china for all its growth is operating at 14%). When you view Americas 70% debt in context, it's really not that bad. Honestly.

And don't forget that treasury dollars bonds don't leave the US system and will not end up in China- this isn't like European debt where investment euros can just be taken to a different Euro-zone nation.

You can't save your way out of a global situation. Economy needs investment and stimulation. Spend and build just like China has throughout, to their credit.

(and there is enough wealth in the system to pay for it all, I'm afraid t-dub. They just don't want to, and have convinced you it's not possible ;) )


----------------

Edit, and these violent radicals are contributing through such action, although certainly not in the most positive sense. It's really easy just to condemn this kind of action, and on the face of it I do too, but it's short sighted and simplistic just to write it off as the actions of bad people. Generally social unrest of that scale doesn't happen often and happens for a reason. As a historian looking retropsectively you would identify that it does indicate some failing of "the system", and just to blame the participants fails to properly understand the issues at play. It certainly won't provide any sustainable solution to the problem. I know these guys aren't really offering a solution either, but it doesn't mean that they don't have a point.

Smashing up a rich persons car isn't totally unlike the smashing of the masses finances through disproportional burden during such economic crisis, if you can make a little effort to see it that way.
 
WatTyler,
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dannkk

Well-Known Member
Talking about money is difficult, especially with people that don't really understand it. The "crisis" is definitely artificial or manufactured. It's caused by a bloated system. We have one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world. We have to many regulations. And we have free trade agreements with countries that do not have any of these. They try and tell you business has moved to other countries because Americans want to much money to do a job. That's not true at all, but it's what everyone believes. The truth is that it's taxes, regulations, and free trade agreements. We should only import things for 2 reasons. It's not around, or I can't find it anymore, but I saw an interview with the CEO of Intel, that said this. He said it would cost $1billion more to open a semiconductor plant here, than the one they opened in China. The next question he was asked was if that was because of wages, he said no, it was taxes and "red tape."

I did hear some people talking about energy costs themselves making it not worth it to export labor, soon, even with free trade though. Talking about a fender that cost 300 dollars in the US. 250 of which is shipping costs, 50 dollars for production. That's just about a wash as far as cost between producing in China or the US.
 
dannkk,

turk

turk
Here is a video that shows exactly what these "radicals" in SF are doing 4/30/2012. Judge for yourselves.

...nice that you use my quote to accompany the shown video...I can only speculate that you perceive because I said I am a "radical" you see some sort of equation between my statement and the actions depicted....fox news would be proud!...contrary to the opinions of the hopelessly naive and tea party rabble...radicalism doesn't necessarily equate to the actions depicted...that is called violence sir.....you have no idea what I believe, nor are you even able to even perceive it...here's a thought, refrain from falsely generalizing my state ments to fit your narrow, limited observations...I'll do my own clarifying thanks...the day I need you to explain my thoughts....I'll give it up..
 
turk,

Vicki

Herbal Alchemist
its a fucking car!

get over it

No one has the right to destroy someone else's property because they are pissed off at the gov't. I'm sure you would be royally pissed off if some dumbass destroyed your property in a riot. Especially when you did nothing to them at all. Here's something you should think about also. What they did is a crime. When people go around vandalizing other people's property, we are all just supposed to "get over it?" Please explain to me how what these people did is right. I really want to know!!
 

Vicki

Herbal Alchemist
...nice that you use my quote to accompany the shown video...I can only speculate that you perceive because I said I am a "radical" you see some sort of equation between my statement and the actions depicted....fox news would be proud!...contrary to the opinions of the hopelessly naive and tea party rabble...radicalism doesn't necessarily equate to the actions depicted...that is called violence sir.....you have no idea what I believe, nor are you even able to even perceive it...here's a thought, refrain from falsely generalizing my state ments to fit your narrow, limited observations...I'll do my own clarifying thanks...the day I need you to explain my thoughts....I'll give it up..

But, didn't you say you were protesting with them?

Actually, here is a copy and paste of your post:


....I was at the ones in s.f.....I support the immigrant community....I'm NOT a liberal.....radical, would probably be the word that best describes me.... .(I'm the radical your mother told you to beware of)


You say you were AT the ones in SF. To observe, or participate? Maybe you can clarify?

I'm sure some people would assume that you participated by saying you were AT the protest. I believe that is why t-dub posted the video and quoted you. Has nothing to do with Fox News or generalizations. :rolleyes:
 
Vicki,

WatTyler

Revolting Peasant
Seemed clear to me that turk was referring to supporting the immigrants at protests/rallies for their rights in SF in 2005/6, whereas t-dub was making a connection with the word 'radical', rather than Turks presence at that recent violence?
 
WatTyler,

Vicki

Herbal Alchemist
Seemed clear to me that turk was referring to supporting the immigrants at protests for their rights in SF, whereas t-dub was making a connection with the word 'radical', rather than Turks presence at that recent violence?

It wasn't that clear to me, honestly, and I don't think it was to everyone. In fact, I think the comment was kinda vague. That's why I asked for clarification. :)
 
Vicki,

turk

turk
I believe it does...the implication of the "media" is that everyone who attends participates in ALL activities. That's like saying all those in Afghanistan, participates and condone the atrocities inflicted on the afgan people by some soldiers..
 
turk,

Vicki

Herbal Alchemist
I believe it does...the implication of the "media" is that everyone who attends participates in ALL activities. That's like saying all those in Afghanistan, participates and condone the atrocities inflicted on the afgan people by some soldiers..

So, did you, or did you not participate? Seriously, this is the 2nd time I asked you this question. The first time, you ignored the question......I'm going to assume that you DID participate, unless you tell me differently.
 
Vicki,

Venomous

Well-Known Member
Ok, fair enough.

Everyone should watch the video t-dub posted by Michael Badnarik. I've only started watching it, but it is very eye opening! ;)


Very good video he posted... I found it funny he said you can read the constitution in about 15-20 mins. But this class is 8 hours, if we finish. Good info so far.

Thanks t-dub
 
Venomous,
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turk

turk
...u know I was married to an assist. D.A. for 10 years...she never filed any charges against me and I was never arrested.. ..we have a little thing called habeas corpus...(I know...the conservatives hate this)...which says I'm allowed to KNOW my charges and my accuser...what right do you have exactly to ask me that question...andi if I was to answer that....it would give you more power over me than you have earned...you do not know me, and I unequivocally reject the question...
 
turk,

Vicki

Herbal Alchemist
...u know I was married to an assist. D.A. for 10 years...she never filed any charges against me and I was never arrested.. ..we have a little thing called habeas corpus...(I know...the conservatives hate this)...which says I'm allowed to KNOW my charges and my accuser...what right do you have exactly to ask me that question...andi if I was to answer that would give more power over me than you have earned...you do not know me, and I unequivocally reject the question...

I have every right to ask a question, and expect an answer. The fact that you keep avoiding the question suggests that you did participate, but refuse to answer.

Going back to what originally started this....t-dub quoted you because you wrote in a forum that you were with them at SF. Then you attacked him for doing so, and acted like you were totally innocent and offended. If you put that out there in the first place, people are allowed to ask more. If you didn't want to talk about it, you shouldn't have said you anything in the first place.
 
Vicki,

Vicki

Herbal Alchemist
Edit, and these violent radicals are contributing through such action, although certainly not in the most positive sense. It's really easy just to condemn this kind of action, and on the face of it I do too, but it's short sighted and simplistic just to write it off as the actions of bad people. Generally social unrest of that scale doesn't happen often and happens for a reason. As a historian looking retropsectively you would identify that it does indicate some failing of "the system", and just to blame the participants fails to properly understand the issues at play. It certainly won't provide any sustainable solution to the problem. I know these guys aren't really offering a solution either, but it doesn't mean that they don't have a point.

Smashing up a rich persons car isn't totally unlike the smashing of the masses finances through disproportional burden during such economic crisis, if you can make a little effort to see it that way.

How I see it a bunch of punks destroying everything. It's bullshit to destroy property of people that did nothing to you. What is the point of destroying innocent people's property just to make a point? If someone destroyed my home or car, I wouldn't give a flying fuck what they had to say. I don't care what their "issue" is.
 
Vicki,

Venomous

Well-Known Member
Talking about money is difficult, especially with people that don't really understand it. The "crisis" is definitely artificial or manufactured. It's caused by a bloated system. We have one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world. We have to many regulations. And we have free trade agreements with countries that do not have any of these. They try and tell you business has moved to other countries because Americans want to much money to do a job. That's not true at all, but it's what everyone believes. The truth is that it's taxes, regulations, and free trade agreements. We should only import things for 2 reasons. It's not around, or I can't find it anymore, but I saw an interview with the CEO of Intel, that said this. He said it would cost $1billion more to open a semiconductor plant here, than the one they opened in China. The next question he was asked was if that was because of wages, he said no, it was taxes and "red tape."

I did hear some people talking about energy costs themselves making it not worth it to export labor, soon, even with free trade though. Talking about a fender that cost 300 dollars in the US. 250 of which is shipping costs, 50 dollars for production. That's just about a wash as far as cost between producing in China or the US.


Wait a minute... First of all, our crisis is hardly artificial. Bank bailouts wouldn't have happened if this was the case. Car manf bailouts wouldn't have happened either. This is real and it's down right scary.

Clinton really fucked us by giving up everything to china.. It started with concrete... Then military trade secrets...The rest is simply history. If it wasn't for public rage, clinton would of successfully given them a port in los angeles. He also gave china full control of the panama canal.

It also doesn't cost $250 to ship a fender from china. The order gets shipped in bulk. It would literally come down to roughly $25 a fender.. Shipping costs vary based on the size of the item, not weight. So the more shit you can stuff inside the container, the cheaper it is to ship. Shipping time can range from 5-9 weeks, so it's important for those people turning the product over, to order in large bulk to sustain them until the next shipment.

This is very common with junk furniture these days.
 
Venomous,
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Vicki

Herbal Alchemist
I also know when folks make connections that have no bases in reality...

Don't even go there. You started all this with your one post saying you were with them at SF. I simply asked a question that you refused to answer. Damn, I feel like I'm talking to a politician!
 
Vicki,
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