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Next Generation Vaporizer Fantasy

Discussion in 'ABV' started by Egzoset, Oct 20, 2010.

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  1. Egzoset

    Egzoset 1SipAToke/Blender Vaporist (v3.1)

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    2,909
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Hi,

    The helical fin in my modified VapBong-style vial gave way to quartz-glass tubing filled with ferro-magnetic beads soaked in mineral oil (to avoid oxidation), making the design compatible with induction heating. Glass is totally invisible to the induction heater coil, nothing in the vaporizer but its metal beads would react to the induction fields. Proper alloy selection should prevent melt-down accidents and even provide a simple way to control vaporization temperature as a by-product, which would greatly simplify the whole concept. Isn't this a "sexy" design!

    Of course you can be my fantasy beta tester! Just send me your fantasy e-mail and i'll send you a fantasy beta unit right away!

    ...

    :lol:

    In any case watch out for my next release, if you liked this one my bet is you'll love what i'm now working on!

    Here's a hint, lets pretend it's like a puzzle:

    [​IMG]

    :cool:
     
  2. Egzoset

    Egzoset 1SipAToke/Blender Vaporist (v3.1)

    Messages:
    2,909
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Well, i guess more hint seems to be in order...

    [​IMG]

    :rolleyes:

    This is a top view of some "in progress" drawing which isn't finished yet.

    It's made up of five components:

    1 Base Glass Container
    1 Spiral Induction Heating Element
    1 Glass Cover with Air Path Openings
    1 Vaporization Bowl Base with Apperture Control
    1 Silicone Bracing Strap with Mounting Holes/Pads
     
  3. Hammerzeit

    Hammerzeit Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    155
    So its like a vaporizing frisbee? :p
     
  4. Egzoset

    Egzoset 1SipAToke/Blender Vaporist (v3.1)

    Messages:
    2,909
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Somewhat smaller in diameter perhaps but about the same thickness of a frisbee, yes! Just don't throw it around though, since it's practically all glass...

    This is a major departure from the initial concept anyway. Contrary to many real-life brands/models, its air path isn't concelead inside a box away from the customer's view: what you see is what you get here! Fresh air enters and leaves the disk via the openings on the top layer and i'm presently drawing an additional intermediary layer to incorporate some valve feature to it so that the customer can trap hot air inside the heater (through rotation) while the bowl's air path gets re-routed in order to allow complete inhalation (who wants a part of the vapor to stay inside when one needs to suck it all!)... It's a bit complicated to explain right now but i still try to account for some of the opinions shared by other members previously. In the present case i'd say the user would get a fair amount of manual control, which could be part of an eventual "ritual".

    It's not clear to me yet what to do between the top layer and the actual bowl, should there be a GonG joint in between? For example... I'm also looking at the possibility to stack such "frisbee" heater cells in pairs to increase heat retention & capacity, using a simple modification where the air enters from one side and exits from the other. A massive assembly would become possible this way, making it suitable to mount that assembly on a carrying arm in a grammophone dedicated fashion... I guess my biggest problem is not finding news ideas, nonetheless! It's finding ideas which would make sense to a die-hard vaporist which i need help with and that's why i welcome every single comment the reader may have to express!!!

    Please don't refrain from feeding my imagination!

    ;)
     
  5. Hammerzeit

    Hammerzeit Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    155
    My concern would be that manufacturing would be difficult. All that curving glass doesn't bode well for mass production.

    Does it sit on a commercial induction stove top or would it have its own field generator?
     
  6. Egzoset

    Egzoset 1SipAToke/Blender Vaporist (v3.1)

    Messages:
    2,909
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    I see. Actually, manufacturing was exactly what i had in mind when i started to deviate from my initial helix concept! All the sudden it seemed a planar spiral would be more convenient while it can still exhibit heat retention properties similar to those made possible by maze structures (inherited from the smoking pipes i mentioned before). Looking for alternatives i even considered using nothing but glass sheet layers: the glass sheets are able to contain metal beads after all, no need for any conventional tubing - but the thing is i felt some accurate cutting method would be in order then, otherwise how does one seal the air path while keeping it efficienty close to the beads as well? In short, technically speaking a 3 arms spiral structure is so much more "sexy" because no mechanical stress would ever accumulate: the arms can freely expand around their central attachment point when heating up. Should i revisit layered sheets solutions? I'm not sure.

    Anyway, IMO two scenarios appear to be allowed when it comes to the induction plate: either it works with a custom-made generator and then the owner gets automatic bag filling as a bonus, either a classic induction stove is all his vaporizer will ever require but this means loosing automated "inhalation". In both cases careful selection of the metal alloy should suffice to prevent burning any vegetal material.

    At least i know i'd most probably want to put tiny irregular glass pieces in the bowl instead of any other metalic mesh for the filter.

    :peace:
     
  7. Hammerzeit

    Hammerzeit Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    155
    I think I have a idea for a housing. Think a sterotypical cartoony UFO thing, sphere with a flared out midsection, sits on three tripods. The ring is the induction plate. Air pump on the bottom and bowl/valve/whip. Temp control wherever.

    :ko:
     
  8. Egzoset

    Egzoset 1SipAToke/Blender Vaporist (v3.1)

    Messages:
    2,909
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Excellent theme, i love it so here comes an adapted version of...

    [​IMG]

    [h]...The UFO Vaporizer![/h]


    :bowdown:
     
  9. Hammerzeit

    Hammerzeit Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    155
    I was thinking more of a wide saucer to accommodate the glass frisbee. :p
     
  10. Egzoset

    Egzoset 1SipAToke/Blender Vaporist (v3.1)

    Messages:
    2,909
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Hummm...

    There's not much to see looking at the frisbee vaporizer from a side view, so...

    [​IMG]

    ...lets pretend it might have this appearance... This model comes with a standardized Carl Sagan gold-plated aluminum disk addressed to the attention of intelligent life from the future, when archeologists will find it long after our civilisation has perished, for example.

    :D

    Meanwhile the customer gets two options: manual inhalation for couples (two mouthpieces are available!) or fully automatic bag filling.

    :cool:
     
  11. Hammerzeit

    Hammerzeit Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    155
    Dude. That is...awesome.

    edit: based off the videos of induction stuff on youtube, I think this method might rival IR in speed.

    also: http://imgur.com/xowjW

    No extra power draw. :)
     
  12. Hammerzeit

    Hammerzeit Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    155
    It just occured to me that if fantasy became reality, online rapid prototyping/3D printer services and CAD would enable a really interesting way to go about beta testing and small scale retail.

    A in house 3D printer could be used to offer multiple ABS body shapes.

    edit: also embedded systems http://blog.0x1fff.com/2009/12/electronic-devices-rapid-prototyping.html :brow:
     
  13. Egzoset

    Egzoset 1SipAToke/Blender Vaporist (v3.1)

    Messages:
    2,909
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Hi Hammerzeit, thank you for your support!

    :D

    Yeah, it seems induction heating might really have an edge in vaporization applications which even the Infra-Red method doesn't currently offer, unless i'd happen to be mistaking: it's THE only hard-core purist's NO BRAINER scenario i could imagine so far and i'm trying hard here... Its heating element is totally detached from any possible contaminant sources, period - e.g. don't waste time searching any further as there just ain't nothing to find! In fact, lets not forget this level of designer freedom, relatively to the control hardware, opened the door to a modified VapBong portable design where HEAT COMES FROM INSIDE and yet the vial can be carried around in a pocket for use in the conventional way. Forget about authoritative laboratory testing and whatnot, should a vaporizer based on this technology ever actually hit the market no potential customer would even need to rely on a decent IQ to realize that this concept can garantee an absolutely virgin air path.

    The edge i'm talking about is not measured in ppm (parts per million); purity is OBVIOUS simply looking at the structure with your own eyes in this case and this, my friend, could make a determining difference at the local smoke shop, i believe - but there again, i'm sorry having to say that's a fantasy and nothing more...

    Of course, generating hot air only represents one half of the challenge: we yet have to define the delivery part more precisely and the recent posts (in other threads/forums) about biological contamination of vegetal residue is a major concern in my mind. That's where this in-line direct-draw cooler pops up:

    [​IMG]

    The body would be 100% metal so i guess sterilization would be another NO BRAINER scenario here, i wonder if its air path could be made all-glass though...

    :hmm:

    Relatively to taking benefit from the vortex effect i must confess this was a factor in the emergence of an helix air path for my modified VapBong vial. I subscribe to this school completely but i felt the "shaker" cavity might still do some good in that case.

    The frisbee topology is radically different and that vortex would have to be generated inside the vaporization bowl itself, a part i haven't got the opportunity to clearly define so far.

    :shrug:


    ...but i figure it's not going to be a major problem...

    :tup:

    About prototyping and modeling, i'm afraid 3D rendering is way beyond my present drawing skills, which is why you haven't seen my creations from multiple perspectives. Nonetheless, my perception so far is that less casing is better when it can be avoided, mainly because of the "OBVIOUS" factor mentioned above.

    By the way, readers who followed the progression of my fantasy thread may notice that's a 180 degrees turn compared to my initial set of guidelines!

    There are some of those times when external input is most valuable - and appreciated...

    :bowdown:

    Anyway, i find it quite difficult to understand how things are meant to work in some real-life vaporizers discussed on this board on a few occasions so i wouldn't want a potential customer to experience the same state of hesitation as i do... My frisbee contraption is the one which made me very proud for this reason: it's relatively simple and nothing important is hidden. After all, who would want to hide their glassware in a box? So... Why should an all-glass frisbee-style vaporizer be conceeled in a plastic envelope!

    Dressing isn't always an issue. No, the real problem here is that such an ultimate level of simplicity would most likely involve careful geometry control, etc., but lets consider the final gain: a reasonable amount of temperature control is apparently achievable through the heating element's physic structure itself, meaning one would only need to place my frisbee vaporizer on the induction plate of his stove if he already happens to cook on one!

    It's like using a force as universal as gravity to do some productive work: riding down the hill on a bike, for example... Honnestly, can a vaporizer concept get any more basic and yet more "stealthy" (!) than that? I mean, without a proper power source under it, how does one know what it does other than pose as some fancy flower pot or something!

    :brow:

    In any case, thank you for suggesting the use of an Arduinio micro-controler module (which was discussed elsewhere in the Bud Toaster thread as i recall). My impression is that it might render prototyping straightforward by linking a regular computer to the vaporizer being developed. I don't see how it would apply to the frisbee model though, but it should certainly turn out to be a wise choice for my SHOT GUN VAPORIZER line!

    Finally, if you haven't already then i'd like you to look at this YouTube video where all heating techniques get blatantly outperformed, the induction heating method included IMO:

    [​IMG]
    YouTube - VAPORIZING Herbs with a 15W LED: Pure Photon Energy Vaping. Vapor Brothers Vaporizer...

    Let there be light! But not too much or one might fear it will end up combusting... My guess is that's a winner in terms of convenience (read heat up delay) and power efficiency (using a mere 15 Watts heat source!) but the idea of wearing laser-proof googles while vaping somehow doesn't appeal to me so my bet is it will be a while before everything else on the market becomes obsolete!

    ;)

    There still could be a very appealing side to laser vaporization though: once the bowl's content has changed from green to golden-brown i suppose the heating process stops, making it self-regulating, similarily to induction heating which ends when the Curie point is reached... This could very well be the next best NO BRAINER scenario!!!

    :science:
     
  14. Hammerzeit

    Hammerzeit Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    155
    Built in spectrograph tracking the levels of cannabinoids in the material and adjusting power to insure maximum boil off. :cool: If you stuck with one or three of those 15 watt LED's in a housing designed to minimize light leakage...Plus it'd simplify glass work.

    The problem is that ballast - that thing is huge. I think induction or LED is gonna be the way forward in subsequent generations of vape design.
     
  15. Egzoset

    Egzoset 1SipAToke/Blender Vaporist (v3.1)

    Messages:
    2,909
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Hi Hammerzeit,

    Actually, i didn't think of anything nearly as sophisticated as what you're refering to but your idea sure has some good side to it, more specifically it evokes the possibility to gain very extensive control over the vaporizing process.

    But simply put, i was under the impression at first that this guy just used a LASER LED assembly mounted on a passive heat sink instead, hence power would only be emited in an extremely limited range of the light spectrum (see YouTube video at 0:56):

    [​IMG]
    LedEngin, Inc. LED Emitter

    The half sphere on the left side is a LED module, the brown rectangle around it is a flexible connector. A space-efficient heat sink might look something more like this:

    Liquid-Cooled Heat Sink

    ...but the video suggests ordinary heat sinking is fit for the job - something i find quite "sexy" as it is already!

    :2c:

    To me it now seems probable that's not even LASER light after all (even if LASER-proof glasses are needed)... In any case, LASER or not my guess is it doesn't matter so much if the output is restricted to a fraction of the light spectrum or not. My understanding is that this heating method doesn't correspond to conventional conduction or convection heating: heat is created right inside the plant's cells where vegetal pigmentation is found - which explains why the guy's hand didn't get burned... Ultimately, deep cooking will occur if enough heat can build up from absorbing such intense light.

    One detail i'd find particularily stimulating to know is this: can that light be absorbed by vapor as well? In other words, must that vapor be removed quicly once extracted to avoid destruction? Finally, can multiple LED modules with different spectral responses improve the vaporizing process any further? I wonder...

    In technical terms it's certainly appealing put aside the risk it represents to eyesight; pulse Width Modulation would provide convenient control over heating speed, euh... Too bad it would have to be tightly shielded from all sides considering an application as sensible as ours!

    :(
     
  16. Egzoset

    Egzoset 1SipAToke/Blender Vaporist (v3.1)

    Messages:
    2,909
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Hi Hammerzeit,

    I've done some 1st hand experimentations with a Salton ID-1081 induction cooker lately and i'm not very optimistic about using such readily-available products as the power source for some new type of vaporizer. Among the major limitations i've noticed there's the need for a relatively large ferro-magnetic body near the device's surface, for example in this case it's recommended to use a circular one having a minimum diameter of five inches. The stainless-steel pan which comes with that unit has a flat contact surface measuring 7" in diameter and its presence won't be detected once raised by more than about 5/8" above the surface of the induction plate. A modified VapBong induction design would definitely fail to work and hence most probably require its own customized power source. As for my frisbee variant, i believe the equally minute ferro-magnetic mass of its tripod glass heating element would call for a major revision... A 6" dia. disk less than half an inch high could have a spiral maze engraved into it so that three glass tubes loosely fitting those trenches would carry fresh air from the edges toward a central junction point where a vaporization bowl would sit. Such metalic casing would be compatible with conventional stoves, someone might even heat it with a heat gun or even in a camp fire i suppose. Although, that's not as "sexy" as the frisbee layout i first had in mind.

    Of course, there's always the alternative of including an inductive generator as part of the whole concept - which isn't worst than what's being currently done in so many real-life vaporizers today.

    :rolleyes:
     
  17. Egzoset

    Egzoset 1SipAToke/Blender Vaporist (v3.1)

    Messages:
    2,909
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    I've collected numbers from multiple sources and tried to build a table from it:

    [​IMG]

    There are contradictory opinions but lets assume this describes reality closely enough...

    Ideally, it seems to me that the next generation dream vaporizer should be able to proceed in steps while rejecting unwanted products... This would call for the use of a planar glass valve in order to send toxic fumes to an exaust circuit, and/or possibly to a water/ice filter for those who might be concerned about loosing any desirable/psycho-active vapor content. Superposed layers of glass sheets with suitably aligned sets of conduit openings cut through them can implement the necessary valve function and provide 100 % glass paths in such a scenario. This could lead to a twin bags unit where the 1st one is "pure" and the next one not so clean: the customer would start his vaping session smoothly by inhaling from the pure bag and, once the time has come for a refill (because he feels the plenitude moment fades away), he would grab the secondary bag to complete that sesion with a somewhat cruder hit...

    :zzz:

    Using a pair of vaporization chambers and an array of valves it might even be possible to combine different products like cannabis, DMT, Salvia, etc. in various ways. Imagine a user configuring his vaporizer by software to get a bag composed as follows: 9 parts canabis, 1 part salvia!
     
  18. Egzoset

    Egzoset 1SipAToke/Blender Vaporist (v3.1)

    Messages:
    2,909
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    My present fantasy thread started with a difficult challenge in mind: to achieve vapor gathering using accurate closed-loop control while providing superior "purity". Pumps, fans and their corresponding flexible tubing had to be kept away from my idealized air path at all costs so it seemed to me this demanding goal called for negative pressure. Here's the only way i could conceive (until now) which could do the job:

    [​IMG]

    It's nothing more than a bag located inside a vacuum cavity, no big deal. If a bag is good enough for a 500+ $ vaporizer then it should be just fine for my purpose! Then it was brought to my attention that bags cause condensation when contact is made between their inner surface and the vapor they're meant to collect. Container surface doesn't change during bag inflation so i thought the door was definitively closed to any improvements in that department... Well, that's not exactly the case! Here are No-Spill WaterFall/Gravity Bongs:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y55nFzPnfbE
    YouTube: Big daddy Vortex

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrIAmgYTb5U
    YouTube: Tornado Bong - Part 1 of 2 - DIY

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmYbzjE_bj0
    YouTube: Tornado Bong - Part 2 of 2 - DIY

    Now i'm aware of an alternative negative pressure method requiring no bags; it doubles as a water filtering system and contact surface is close to zero when vapor collection begins - not to mention that a glass-only replacement solution to bag filling finally appears to have been found! I doubt this part of the design can be optimized any further... The operating principle sounds right, my remaining problem is to imagine a convenient/economical way to control water circulation.

    :peace:
     
  19. Egzoset

    Egzoset 1SipAToke/Blender Vaporist (v3.1)

    Messages:
    2,909
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Back to my induction heating theme...

    :cool:

    This is a very short video i made, it won't win an award this year nor the next or any other year that will come after:

    [​IMG]
    YouTube: Salton ID-1081 (induction cooker) test

    Its description text says Experimention with Salton iD-1081 induction cooker using the 4 inches dia. bottom metal disk of a Planters "Cocktail Peanuts" package combined to Keyster 60/40 Solder Alloy (183C - 188C) .

    The purpose was to establish if induction heating as provided by current commercially available low-cost appliances (100$ at Sears) is really worth any further attention. Well, it is and i've learned a few things in the process. At first, the disk i used failed to trigger the pan detector mechanism present in my induction plate but things improved in a spectacular way once i flipped it on the other side... It seems four inches is very close to the absolute minimum acceptable diameter for that brand/model, the rim's thickness is all it takes so the disk's surface would be too far from the coil located below the plate's glass!



    [h]N.B.:[/h]


    [em]The disk was seating on toothpicks each time, to help prevent contact with the plate's glass (it turned red during one test). Silicone would have been a better choice since vibrations caused by the strong magnetic field made it slide on those toothpicks...[/em]



    I've tested Steel Wool (the "Fine", "Medium" and "Coarse" format from Bull Dog) after making sure it sticks to a magnet. Nothing happened and i think i know why: even with all three boxes on the induction plate, Steel Wool doesn't "shunt" its magnetic field significantly in the same way power transformers remain relatively cold because they have composite cores. With this observation in mind i turned the upper metallic part of my Planters package into an helix about eleven inches long. Still no heat: it was rejected just as the Steel Wool has been.

    :/

    Consequently, i've come to this conclusion: should a vaporizer ever be designed to work with such a device i can now tell it's shape and minimum size. It's got to be a disk, probably because the coil inside the induction plate is planar (flat) too. That disk will have a diameter ranging somewhere between four and eight inches and it won't be thicker than a slim CD case, IMO - which strongly suggests a proper "stealthy" look to adopt. That's still enough volume to accomodate a lot of surface if the air path goes through a tight maze made up of numerous conduits with thin walls. Careful selection of the right geometry combined to the proper alloy should provide vaporists with a self-regulating air heater to match some regular glass bowl (with heated air coming from under that bowl). Once temperature is reached the stainless steel disk will stop being ferro-magnetic and hence will stop heating, an event which the induction plate will detect but ignore if it cools down before the power-down delay is over (that device goes to sleep mode when it's "load" is removed, physically or magnetically speaking)... I already verified that there are suitable alloy providers available on the market:

    [​IMG]
    NeoMax Materials Co. - Temperature-sensitive Magnetic Alloys

    If more control is required then i guess creative hackers would manage to exploit this resource:

    [​IMG]

    It's the set of connectors joining together the analog part to its digital complementary part... Modifications could range from disabling a detector via one simple switch to communicating with customizing software through an intermediary microcontroller linked with the owner's computer, whatever!

    :science:
     
  20. Egzoset

    Egzoset 1SipAToke/Blender Vaporist (v3.1)

    Messages:
    2,909
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    [​IMG]
    Red Eye Raswell Pipe

    Imagine one the size of a CD case (without proeminent "top"/"bottom" parts) built using the right alloy and sitting of top of:

    [​IMG]
    ...an induction cooker...

    :science:
     
  21. Warden Trance

    Warden Trance Active Member

    Messages:
    17
    The first thing is definitely an all-glass air path. I can't believe it's not manditory yet, even the highest priced vaporizers...
     
  22. Egzoset

    Egzoset 1SipAToke/Blender Vaporist (v3.1)

    Messages:
    2,909
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Thank you Warden for your input! Don't worry, i think there's enough in this thread alone to imagine multiple 100% glass air path scenarios... Each one being even healthier than the other!...

    I'm elsewhere, lets consider the hot air generation mechanism has been acquired for a moment; it's time to take a look at how this heat can be used and i've just got an idea: lets couple the vaporization chamber to a sonic vibrator! Right now it doesn't matter much if it's a speaker or some other electro-mechanical device, just imagine vibrations shaking the trichromes while hot air around them started to evaporate them...

    For cleanliness purposes i'd suggest the coupling to be done through a thin foil of aluminium, or some more flexible/sturdier material: after all, we don't want to add yet another conduit to the owner's maintenance chore! As for being sonic, as far as i'm concerned, i'd prefer an ultra-sonic vibrator so it can't be heard!

    ;)
     
  23. notmyrealUSERname

    notmyrealUSERname Notmy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    543
    what about a wind tunnel bowl? so instead of using sonic vibrations to help shake loose the trichromes, use a 'wind tunnel' to keep your product swirling around in hot air path.

    or you could just have a rotating bowl with a narrow air stream crossecting it in the middle. think of a clothes dryer.

    i have heard of people who stir their bowls on whip based vapes by blowing a little puff of air on the whip. why not have the 'nextgenfantasy vape' do this for you?
     
  24. Egzoset

    Egzoset 1SipAToke/Blender Vaporist (v3.1)

    Messages:
    2,909
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Hi there!

    Indeed, why not? I find that's a legitimate question and i welcome it!

    :cool:

    Personnally, i am all in favour of having turbulence in the vaporization chamber, most definitely. The idea of using cyclone effects seems appealing to me too but i'm thinking their momentum doesn't change directions radically. In contrast, sound waves are made of positive and negative pressure zones so this means the most persistent trichromes would be moved (shaken) back and forth until they detach. Think of this analogy: it's possible to break small pieces of metal by submitting them to back and forth movement (to induce extreme fatigue) while always bending them in a same direction would accomplish next to nothing. Well, that's how i imagine trichromes in the present context: a tornado created in a bowl only moves forward so i say lets add to its vectorial forces an independant force which switches directions by 180 degrees tens of thousand times per second... If ordinary turbulence doesn't suffice to shake up all of the trichromes then perhaps it's about time someone explores methods similar to that which i've just described!

    ;)
     
  25. Egzoset

    Egzoset 1SipAToke/Blender Vaporist (v3.1)

    Messages:
    2,909
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
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