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Gear D-nail thread

Discussion in 'Concentrates' started by PhotoRider, Oct 30, 2013.

  1. Eatrocks

    Eatrocks Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    364
    The torch sic nail I got works pretty good. Not easy to get a good temp going but I've gotten the hang of it. This versions sic base is smaller and fits perfectly wit a standard Ti cap/dabber. I can cap it and cover the carb and get almost no airflow if the cap is seated right.

    I would like the halo enail sics everyone swears by,
     
  2. ensabbahnur

    ensabbahnur Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    113
    Location:
    Kickin it live in the 775
    There is so much more to it then just capping and bare minimum airflow, its about the perfect/optimal airflow, pressure, temp retention etc etc

    Do you have a flat coil and enail? I picked up a full Sic dish halo setup with v2 cap, as a backup set, during this past sale, Im so certain you'll be satisfied with it, Ill offer it to you now at my cost plus shipping and PayPal
     
    Gigsabits53, grokit and shredder like this.
  3. psychonaut

    psychonaut High as fuck

    Messages:
    632
    Location:
    CO
    I recently switched my flat coil directly under my SiC halo instead of below the heater retainer and now it's way hotter than it used to be. I was vaporizing at like 700F+ with the old configuration and now can drop it down to 600F or even lower.

    I guess I should have figured this, but it is surprising that even when it is running for 12+ hours a day that the dish never seemed to pull that heat off of the heater retainer.

    Hope everyone's enjoying their gear :love:
     
    grokit, SamuraiSam, shredder and 2 others like this.
  4. shredder

    shredder Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    767
    I tried the coil under the washer at first too, but quickly changed. I also flattened my coil in a vice to make the dish sit flat on the heater.

    I noticed once after a cleaning and reassembly that the temps were moving all around. An inspection determined that the nail was loose. Tightening (handtight) fixed it.

    Lately I'm liking my rosin at 520F to 550F.
     
  5. SamuraiSam

    SamuraiSam Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    883
    Location:
    Tacoma, WA
    The improvement you see in heat transfer also correlates into much more accurate registering of the thermocouple to dabbing surface. Without a poor conductor of heat in the way of the coil to dish, the efficient thermal transfer properties of the SiC are able to shine. When you put titanium in between them, you might as well dab on titanium because the Ti 'heat sink' negates the thermal conductive advantages of SiC. It's like dabbing on a Liger, with a giant hunk of titanium in between the dabbing surface and the coil heating / thermocouple measuring temperature totally negating the benefits of the very conductive silicon carbide. Engineering fail.

    If you have dropped your temps significantly and wish to take advantage of the lowest temperature dabbing, now that your heater will respond more quickly to the drop in temperature of a dab, you can really experience some amazing flavors. When you get real low, you'll want to pre-heat the D-nail carb cap, (I set in on the dish while I get my dab ready) because it alone can suck 20-40ºF out of the dish.) Since learned this technique I've been able to drop my temps significantly, about 20-30 degrees for the same concentrate. I am currently dabbing the high-terpene extracts I process down around 430-470ºF, or about 475-525ºF indicated on my PID. The more terpenes, the lower I go. Currently tasting some 17% terp content Dutch Treat live resin and it's working great down at 430 dish temp.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017 at 3:20 AM
    StormyPinkness, psychonaut and grokit like this.
  6. ensabbahnur

    ensabbahnur Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    113
    Location:
    Kickin it live in the 775
    I don't think you're looking at this correctly at all.

    Any professional chef is going to take a heavy, solid metal base pan over a pressed sheet aluminum walmart special every single time, its just a better cooking experience.

    I say all of this as a HUGE Halo fan, i have both SIC and sapphire and put a ridiculous amount of material through them.

    The titanium mass of the Liger is for keeping you dish temp, quartz, SIC or saph, stable, consistent and hot spot free. Watching the coil power draw on the Halos is like riding lightning, the Ligers are almost flat lines. The properties of SIC are not effected in any way, shape or form by placing it in a heated titanium bucket....or any heated bucket for the matter. The SIC doesn't care if the heat comes from the coil itself or from the large mass of heated metal of the bucket, but it would rather there be a ton of heat than just whats stored in the coil itself. CCA's quality control and business management are definitly questionable at best, but aside from their older carb caps....the engineering is rock solid.

    Dnail SIC Halo setup shows how heated mass benefits the actual sublimation as if you use their V2 cap (which is the best there is for the Halos) without preheating the cap first, your nail is going to drop 20-40 degrees until your coil blasts itself to 100% power for a few seconds trying to right the ship, making things worse. I think they always intended the cap to be preheated as there is no other practical/technical reason to have the cap with that much mass without any fins or heat dissipation mechanism.

    I think it bears repeating yet again, for the Halos its

    Dish
    Coil
    Heater Retainer (large washer)
    Slim Body
    Retaining Nut (small washer)
    Joint Base

    This is based off many pictures from their own website.
     
    shredder, Gigsabits53 and grokit like this.
  7. SamuraiSam

    SamuraiSam Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    883
    Location:
    Tacoma, WA
    You are welcome to your opinion, my experience with vaporizing has taught me differently. Any one who cooks can value a consistent heating temperature. Vaporizing concentrates bears very little resemblance to cooking a meal.

    Exactly, because the thermocouple is accurately measuring the temperature drop of the dish and responding to the detected load by increasing its output.

    Do you understand the construction of the heating coil and thermocouple? Do you understand the value of measuring the temperature of the dabbing surface to allow the PID controller to function properly instead of measuring the temperature of the heatsink while the dish on the other side drops in temperature significantly before the heatsink's mass cools down enough for the PID to detect a change in temperature before it can increase heat to transfer the heat back through the heatsink material into the dish?

    Have you used a thermocouple to measure the dish's ∆T during a dab with both heat sink placements to compare the response in temperature? Having tried both, and felt how much hotter the 14mm male joint and heat sink were with the coil in direct contact with the heat sink than with the heater retainer between the sink and coil, and judging by how much lower temperature I can dab at, and pull more pulls off a given sized dab, I am quite comfortable placing my SiC dish directly atop my flat coil :tup: (I would not suggest the same for a Sapphire halo due to how easily the Halo could become over tightened leading to a broken dish).
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017 at 4:17 AM
    StormyPinkness likes this.
  8. ensabbahnur

    ensabbahnur Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    113
    Location:
    Kickin it live in the 775
    Im not saying its like cooking a MEAL, but absolutely like a single item.

    Unless you're dropping the dab directly on the coil itself, you're not getting accurate temp response, any medium be it dish, or bucket and dish is effecting that.

    I do. Again, its not the temp delta that matters as you'll find it through experience not thermocouples, its how stable it is and more mass is going to equal more stable temps, period. your COIL temp may be lower a few degrees with a Halo, but dish temp is dish temp is dish temp is dish temp and I'm not arguing any of that anyways as I've said the dish IS SUPPOSED TO SIT ON THE COIL IN DNAILS SETUP. Im not saying one or the other is better, Im simply defending the Liger and correcting, or maybe clarifying your thoughts, as i see you've edited your post a bit.
     
    Shooby likes this.
  9. StormyPinkness

    StormyPinkness Rhymenocerous ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ

    Messages:
    1,608
    Location:
    California
    Wow, I stopped going lower at 520f on my dish, I'll have to try taking it down some more.
     
    grokit likes this.
  10. Shooby

    Shooby Low Temp Dabs

    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    SoCal - OC
    I am currently down to 483F reading on my controller on my SiC dish. I sat at 525F for a while but wanted to see how low i can go. I have noticed much smoother hits at lower temps. Next week, I will go down to 475F.
     
    grokit and StormyPinkness like this.

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