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Concentrates for Noobs - Q&A

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
I don't know much about oils. I just received my mmj authorization and was interested in the Ionic Cannabis Oil Vaporizer disposable pens I guess they have them in WA state. The oil is preloaded, which would make that easy for some of us beginners. I haven't visited the dispensary much to look around.

I would appreciate any info.
 
CarolKing,

DieHard

Accessory supplier
Accessory Maker
I have limited experience with preloaded cartomizers. They had the name of a strain on them and looked like some brown goo and clear e-cig juice. I thought it tasted ok but the BHO I had been making for years tasted light years better. The only problem I had was the delivery system. If it is preloaded and you can't really see it, I would steer away. If other options for concentrates are available look there. You may also want to look into the Omicron http://www.w9tech.com/omicron-ti-series-essential-oil-vaporizer/ on sale for $85.99 With that you don't need to know anything but charge battery, load small (think 1/2 grain of rice) amount on the coil, enjoy...repeat as necessary. I love mine!
 

Stiggy

Member
I haven't tried it but I wonder if the TS8000 tip is exchangeable with the TS4000. The TS8000 tip is a bit longer and it is wider I think. As for a replacement tip without fins, dunno. But I think the TS4000 would benefit more(for our purposes) from some flow control. If I get a chance this weekend to get over to my friends place I'll experiment with the tips. If the TS4000 tip fits on the TS8000 I'll see what that tip does when I'm able to control the flow. At low flow I get a nice long straight pointed flame from the TS8000. So, I imagine the TS4000 tip should be similar if not more precise due to the tighter nozzle dimensions.
*edit*The TS7000 torch head looks like a TS4000 with a small knob to adjust flow. Never seen those in Home Depot though, just online.*edit*
The TS4000 & TS8000 tips are interchangeable.
 

Stiggy

Member
@Stiggy are they finned different? did they perform diffrent interchanged?
The fins are similar, but the TS4000 tip has a smaller opening. I didn't bother putting the TS8000 tip on the TS400 torch as I know what the TS8000 tip will do at full blast. I swapped the TS4000 tip onto the TS8000 head so I had flow control with that tip. I was at a buddies house and only had Map-Pro gas on hand. With the TS8000 head with the TS4000 tip I was able to turn the flame down to the point where the excessive screeching from the map-pro gas was almost totally nonexistent. I was able to get the flame tamed down to a nice 4 inch or so flame cone that I could easily aim the tip right into my castle nail. The torch would produce a brief squawk from the map gas at low flow after the torch tip heats up, as opposed to the constant screeching the TS4000 produces with no flow control with map gas. You get about 10 seconds of near silent map gas usage before it starts to chirp every few seconds. Not really a big deal when watching TV. With propane it would be nice and quiet all the time.

The only real difference between the TS8000 tip and TS4000 tip at low flow is about an inch or two in length of the tamed flame. TS8000 flame is like 5-6 inches where the TS4000 tip is like 4 inches. It was really nice to be able to tame the noise from the map gas though. From what I can tell online from pictures, a TS7000 is about exactly this. A torch head with flow control and what looks like a TS4000 tip.
 
Stiggy,

Stiggy

Member
I used to have a Bernzomatic hand torch. Same as what they have now but it had red plastic accents not the blue they now carry in Home Depot. One day it fell off a counter and the nozzle portion broke off and was unfixable, I had just filled it too. I liked that torch. It was my July 4th fuse lighting torch. ;)
 
Stiggy,

DieHard

Accessory supplier
Accessory Maker
I just got my vac purge set-up and I'm all ready to go. Some pictures of the first dry run. Results of first real deal to follow.
tiAhjr3.jpg

PnmxLc0.jpg
 

farscaper

Well-Known Member
is that one of the ebay vac setups? im very interested in your review if it and the company selling them if it is @DieHard
edit: from marosidesign?
 
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DieHard

Accessory supplier
Accessory Maker
is that one of the ebay vac setups? im very interested in your review if it and the company selling them if it is @DieHard
Yes I did get in from Ebay. The seller is Marosi something or other. They are the manufacturer. I was going to buy the same unit from Bestvaluevacs.com (same people). But the ebay deal had free shipping. It showed up very fast. Came from Illinois. The pump is from China. Time will tell on that. The chamber is Pyrex. The chamber Lid assembly is very stout. It took 5 minutes out of the box to pull a vacuum. It seems to hold a vacuum very well. Turn it on, gauge goes up, close valve, turn off pump. That's it. The pump only needs to run for a little bit. I will have "real" results later.;)
 

DieHard

Accessory supplier
Accessory Maker
ive been eyeballing those a min on ebay. waiting to see @DieHard results
It worked great! The oil did not turn to shatter. It turned into crumble. I ran this batch about a week prior and scraped it up and put it into the freezer after minimal purge in anticipation of the chamber's arrival.
Maybe that affected the results. I am very happy with this purchase. I'm sure this has to be the most thoroughly purged batch I have made. The taste is great too. I am gonna run some more from the same flowers tomorrow...results to follow.
Htzyj5K.jpg
 

Bouldorado

Well-Known Member
I don't know if this has been mentioned, but a pyrex/tempered pan should really be used for the initial extraction. I learned this the hard way yesterday, after pouring -4˚F butane on a pan sitting in ~120˚ water, it instantly cracked from the thermal shock. Fortunately I was able to salvage most of the oil as the cracks did not fully penetrate the glass pan. However with only an 11% return for a nug return I definitely lost some yield. :doh:
 

FlyingLow

Team NO SLEEP!
  • Is making oil and wax as easy as it appears?
  • How long does the entire process take?
  • Does the process smell strong?
My significant other does not participate and would not be thrilled if I stink up the apartment for days at a time...
 
FlyingLow,
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farscaper

Well-Known Member
  • Is making oil and wax as easy as it appears?
  • How long does the entire process take?
  • Does the process smell strong?
My significant other does not participate and would not be thrilled if I stink up the apartment for days at a time...
yes.... and no if you wing it.

depends on how much you make... obviously this is an exponential equation. the more u make the longer it takes to purge.

depending on the strain... the smell usually comes along for the extraction ride. I prefer to exrract vaporizable oil with butane (capital brand) and I use everclear for edible extracts.
 

jdee

Well-Known Member
Very nice setup @DieHard you went all out with the PID, I would recommend replacing the water in your larger pot with sand you can pickup at the local hardware for $5. It holds and distributes the heat perfectly and never evaporates or causes moisture around your product. Also it looks like you are assuming the temperature of the water bath/pot of sand is equal to the temperature of your oil inside the chamber, that's not the case though.

Calibrating the internal temp is important, for example on my aluminum chamber external PID temp reading of 137f = 117f in the chamber. Omega makes these adhesive temperature strips from 90-f - 120f and are perfect to have inside the chamber for real time accurate internal temps (you can find them listed as part no. 'RLC-60-90/120-10' on 'http://www.omega.ca/shop/pptsc.asp?ref=rlc-60). Butane is heavier than air and proper purges take either high temps, a long time, or some assistance by way of things like light usage of a heat gun to make it perfectly flat and thin as possible or flipping the patty. If you thought you were done purging and you do this it will keep purging usually.

Of course the ingestion of butane at these levels is hardly a health concern and it comes down to personal preference how 'clean' you want the end product to be. The real issue is that ALL canned solvents contain isopentane and neopentane, if you've ever heard of mystery oil a grease like substance left behind after blasting several cans of butane and letting it evaporate, this is it. It seems as any internal temp below 90f is insufficient to attempt to purge these after blasting, ideally you would remove them through distillation in your closed loop setup. The closed loop you use because safety is cool and open blasting is not ideal from a safety or environmental and possibly financial standpoint. terppextractors dot com have a legit business based around gray wolf from skunkpharms terpenator mk3 design that you can build yourself if you wanted.

Worth noting also is the analog vacuum gauges aren't accurate as their readings don't properly reflect its relation to the current altitude, but your true vacuum level will. A digital vacuum gauge hooked up to the air intake side of your valve on your chamber would allow you to accurately read 10,000micron (-29.5inHg) of vacuum regardless of your altitude, which is the ideal purge presure for shatter with temps anywhere between 95f-117f. One way to 'calibrate' your analog vacuum gauge is to remember water boils at 100c (212f) and under vacuum this lowers, water that has an exact temperature of 53f will boil at exactly -29.5inHg. You can use this method to see exactly where on your gauge this happens, but don't leave the pump running too long while doing that as pulling water into your pump isn't the best.

As for the desired end product it comes down to several variables (some which you may not be able to control unless your grow it yourself) like starting material,age of material,temperature of solvent/material during extraction,solvent type/mixture,purge temp/time/pressure, all leading to a different end result.
 
Last edited:

Stiggy

Member
The fins are similar, but the TS4000 tip has a smaller opening. I didn't bother putting the TS8000 tip on the TS400 torch as I know what the TS8000 tip will do at full blast. I swapped the TS4000 tip onto the TS8000 head so I had flow control with that tip. I was at a buddies house and only had Map-Pro gas on hand. With the TS8000 head with the TS4000 tip I was able to turn the flame down to the point where the excessive screeching from the map-pro gas was almost totally nonexistent. I was able to get the flame tamed down to a nice 4 inch or so flame cone that I could easily aim the tip right into my castle nail. The torch would produce a brief squawk from the map gas at low flow after the torch tip heats up, as opposed to the constant screeching the TS4000 produces with no flow control with map gas. You get about 10 seconds of near silent map gas usage before it starts to chirp every few seconds. Not really a big deal when watching TV. With propane it would be nice and quiet all the time.

The only real difference between the TS8000 tip and TS4000 tip at low flow is about an inch or two in length of the tamed flame. TS8000 flame is like 5-6 inches where the TS4000 tip is like 4 inches. It was really nice to be able to tame the noise from the map gas though. From what I can tell online from pictures, a TS7000 is about exactly this. A torch head with flow control and what looks like a TS4000 tip.
Need to edit here.

Tried out the TS4000 tip at low flow with propane. The torch made the same squacking sound as with map gas. The TS8000 tip does not do this with either fuel at low flow.
 

DieHard

Accessory supplier
Accessory Maker
@jdee wow, great post. Good info to consider. :nod: I figured the chamber temp would be lower so I set my temp to 120f to try to achieve +\- 100f. I like the idea of a temp strip inside the chamber but what about off gassing from the temp strip.
I may have to try a heat gun as well. What about a blow dryer? I went all Julia Child and folded it in parchment and rolled it flat.
I also released the vac several times to remove the purged 'tane from the chamber. I did not leave the vac pump running the whole time. I pulled to 30"Hg and closed the valves, and the chamber held the vacuum.
Sand...Hmmm:hmm:, maybe...never even considered that.
I'm using Capital N-butane that's the best I can find locally.
I am at sea level. I equalized the pressure gauge with the rubber plug. Closed loop would be ideal but that may be a bit expensive for me.
 
DieHard,
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farscaper

Well-Known Member
a hair dryer is futile. a heat gun will work to loosen the top. I often resort to a torch flickered at the surface. just make sure you get most of your purge done before doing that or whosh! you might get a suprise.

I will however note that for those with wax ... a little torch heat will loosen those molecules right up.
 
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