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Concentrates for Noobs - Q&A

Discussion in 'Concentrates' started by FlyingLow, Apr 22, 2014.

  1. FlyingLow

    FlyingLow Team NO SLEEP!

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    1,296
    I came to this section of the forums looking for an education, but saw no "Sticky" nor basic guides for new users. Let this be a place to ask and answer questions.

    I am a seasoned smoker turned vape'er, and to this point have always been a flower person. The whole oil rig, dome, nail, and torch can kinda be a bit intimidating for the lifelong flower person, and it became clear my LHS does not have the experience to provide me with any sort of education.

    Recently I gained access to oils and I need some education on oils/concentrates; I need guidance. If any other noobs have some basic concentrate/oil questions, feel free to ask in here as well:

    - What should I be looking for in BHO oil?
    - What range of colors is desired?

    A friend dropped off some BHO oil and it is pretty dark brownish green- nearly black in the thicker areas.
    When stretched and spread thin, it appears a lighter, amberish in color.

    -What are typical gram prices for BHO oil? (I am not in a position to make this myself)

    I have two choices for delivery. I have a pen with a nail in a dome- looks like a hopped up e-cig. Or, I can buy a nail and dome for my new SB bubbler and filter through water. What do you all recommend?

    So far I have only used the pen and it is quite affective. I look forward to everyone's input and guidance.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2014
  2. Enchantre

    Enchantre A short, pithy statement

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    WA USA
    I can throw out little factoids I (think) I've learned, and some more questions for our FAQ:

    Shatter was purged at a lower temp than wax.

    Vacuum purging is really important. Know your supplier. Look at the test results.

    CO2 oil isn't necessarily better than BHO - how it's handled during/after can make a difference.

    What out for fillers (PG/VG) in pre-loaded. Some might not have as much medicine as you think it does.

    I'm making my own (non-vac purge. sigh) reclaim oil (errl), using the slow evaporate method. Glass jar, with screen over the mouth, sitting on the balcony. It gets swirled occasionally. My goal is pain relief/sleep help, and I KNOW it will taste like ass. Question is, as it is sitting out in the light/air (avoiding direct sunlight -- mostly), I do know stuff in it "degrades"... but that's just the residual THC becoming more CBD/CBN, right? cuz I'm down with that ;)

    Is there a point where I would end up with icky tasting stuff that is really worthless? I'm not gonna lose the bennies entirely, right?
     
  3. CG420

    CG420 Vaporist

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    290
    Location:
    LA
    Just to throw this in there as any beginner should know is that if you take your wax and dab it, if it is sparking and splattering it usually means the person didn't purge correctly or at all depending on the intensity of the sparks will tell you how much butane or co2 is still there. That's just what I went by from day one of getting my nail kit and then jumped to buy the Sub. For the most part of Southern LA, the waxes are clean but I find myself shelling out 15/25 for half a g and 30/40 for a g of pretty golden stuff. The shatters go for higher somewhere around 50/100 even at some points which I am not sure if it's even worth the risk to donate for.

    Making it yourself is pretty easy but potentially blowing up your house is a risk. If you got no fear and can do outdoors in the backyard with no open flames around then you're good. Some have went to the extent to provided ventilation systems inside their homes to just work indoors. It's really all about how much you are willing to invest and if you got the time for all of it.

    Don't ever hit the dab with a red hot nail right away, let it cool off for a few seconds before the dunk, dab, whatever. Your stuff does not need to be refrigerated but it is better I guess. Some of my friends and some shops think so. I just prefer my wax in glass capsules at room temperature (closets are cold usually so I store it there sometimes.)
     
  4. FlyingLow

    FlyingLow Team NO SLEEP!

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    THANK YOU CG!

    That was a very informative; and with regards to the splattering and purging, this is exactly the type of information I am seeking.

    Pricing sounds right at what we get it for ($30) but I would go on a limb and say that your product is likely far better quality than what we get.
     
  5. Stiggy

    Stiggy Active Member

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    47
    I see this posted all the time. In my experience I do not find it to be true. The difference between shatter & wax for me is nothing but time in the vac chamber. You can accelerate these consistency changes by adding heat. But thats how you start to degrade flavor.

    My last batch of oil went through every stage, shatter, pull snap\wax, butter, crumble. In about that order and the temps were in the high 90s the entire time. I stopped the process multiple times to harvest some of every stage, they all rock with flavor and potency and are totally touchable with your bare hands. The shatter and pull snap wax stages are really knock the bejesus out of you strong, the butter & crumble consistencies are right up there too but the pull snap and shatter have so much terpy flavor! I love being able to roll up a ball of pull snap with my fingers and just drop that into my wide mouth quartz castle by hand, same with the crumble but sometimes crumble is too crumbly. Dropping a BB sized ball of my errl onto a nail will put you down hard in a hurry! LoL

    [​IMG]

    Shattery Pull-snap on the left, crumble on the right. Blasted on 4/18 using an experimental butane\dry ice extraction than I'm still refining. Dewaxed right out of the extractor with incredible flavor! I usually winterize BHO runs and have no issues getting the same consistencies from winterized absolutes as well without upping the temps just need to adjust purge times.
     
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  6. FlyingLow

    FlyingLow Team NO SLEEP!

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    Your shatter looks a great deal clearer than mine, I wish I could taste:)

    For consumption, do you all prefer using a Ti Nail or Ti Pad?
    Should I be looking at Dome or Domeless setups?

    Is it necessary to spend $70+ on a nail? Can I be equally satisfied with one for $30?
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2014
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  7. Enchantre

    Enchantre A short, pithy statement

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    I would go for proven quality with a nail.

    I like quartz, and I use glass occasionally, but I am learning the ropes with a Ti nail.
    Getting a Ti nail should be more expensive, as the cheap ones MIGHT not be Gr 2 Ti, and could possibly off-gas during use. Also, like a cast iron skillet, it needs seasoning.

    I don't have all the instructions, but I've seen them around here ;)

    I'm seriously pondering the SCS Omni nail.
     
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  8. herbivore21

    herbivore21 Well-Known Member

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    1,031
    So for people who don't live in the United States of Amazing Herbage, and don't have access to BHO.

    What are your favourite concentrates, how do you make them (if you do), what do they look/taste like? How do you find them to be strength wise?

    I regularly make QWISO oils/waxes. I always do a quick wash, filter thoroughly and purge the solvent completely. I am left with either a stable oil (think thick olive oil) in a mid brown colour, or if I use cured flowers/trim I get a mid-brown coloured wax. It tastes incredible with trim/cured flowers, and still very good with AVB. AVB must be winterised if there is any scorching of the AVB from vaping (any amount of black AVB = winterize).

    I do convection dabs, dab some oil/wax onto a ball of SS wool instead an SS screen capsule and run the e-nano at it's highest temp. Never get any smoke, just very thick blue vapor. Tastes great!

    I will soon be making some QWET with some incredible strain I just got my hands on. I will report here what my experiences produce.
     
  9. GR

    GR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    492
    The foil test is a good one to test your oils. Put a small amount on tin foil heat, it should turn liquid then evaporate off leaving little residue behind. The more residue the more contaminates it has.

    I started with skillets but soon as I got a nail I never went back to the skillet. Buy american TI from reputable companies, yes you pay more but you get what you pay for. I prefer small nails since my dabs are small and why spend all that time heating so much material to do a small dab, but that is me and many love the dome less setups.

    IMO the nail is still my favorite method for doing oil. I have different pen vapes and the Cera oil portable vape as well as some plug in units for oil and I always come back to the nail rig for simplicity, beautiful custom glass, and the best flavor. I am sitting here with my Cera hitting oil while away from my home and will take less flavor and some PIA for the portability and stealth for on the go oil hitting.

    Good stuff from HE on things TI http://www.highlyeducatedti.com/blog/

    Here is just good stuff on all things oil http://skunkpharmresearch.com
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2014
  10. 2clicker

    2clicker up to my ears in clams Accessory Maker

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    3,541
    regarding how to achieve shatter instead of wax... i never vac purge (i use ethanol) and always get shatter.

    i believe the consistency difs come from the amount of heat applied and the length of application. low heat for a couple of hours consistently produces shatter for me.

    unfortunately i do not have enough experience with BHO to compare. i suggest looking for an ethanol extracted oil before BHO. not sure if any dispensaries are producing QWET (quick wash ethanol) tho. QWET is much easier and safer to make than BHO as well.

    just throwing that out there.
     
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  11. equatorgringo

    equatorgringo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    343
    Location:
    Panama
    Man if someone on this forum had a detailed qwiso o qwet tutorial for small amounts of runs (7-14g) I would seriously dig that. Only flowers are for sale down here, no oils waxes hashes nada. I was seriously interested in trying BHO runs but I would have to be importing high quality butane and screens as well as a glass tube. Ethanol or iso seem much safer as well.
     
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  12. 2clicker

    2clicker up to my ears in clams Accessory Maker

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    3,541
    here you go
     
  13. equatorgringo

    equatorgringo Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Panama
    Score. You rock.
     
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  14. clouded vision

    clouded vision Well-Known Member

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    1,163
    I'm doing exactly that right now. Sitting here in my hotel room toking on my Cera wishing I had a rig to dab off of, but it's not very practical in a hotel room.
     
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  15. Melting Pot

    Melting Pot 45 going on 75

    Messages:
    83
    Check out ssv or dbv oil kits

    Or PERSEI/sr74 I don't have either
    But I am saving for both haven't decided on dbv or ssv


    I run colibi tane through sstb into a small puddle 99 % iso evap no vac good results for small runs .sorry for little details sitting in hospital on idiot phone. U get the idea though the iso spreads out oils so they don't trap tane in the oils u could winteize I don't feel the need to

    Never run tane indoor I don't care how many exhaust fans u have fans run on electric.electricity and butane don't mix if u can't do it outside don't do it
    IMO


    BHO
    Blow Hands Off
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2014
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  16. FlyingLow

    FlyingLow Team NO SLEEP!

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    Another completely noob question:

    I just ordered my first nail, a dome less quartz castle from Chief Cottonmouth.
    I have read previously that nails need to be seasoned- like a good skillet in the kitchen.

    Could someone please explain this process and what I need to do once I receive my nail?
     
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  17. GR

    GR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    492
    TI benefits from seasoning.
     
  18. clouded vision

    clouded vision Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,163
    Correct, nails need to be seasoned to get the best taste. Just like cast iron, the best way to season is to get it hot (still below dabbing temperatures, you want the oilt to pool a little) then apply oil. This is the downside of quartz, it definitely takes the longest to season, but the only reason for seasoning is taste, you can simply dab through the seasoning process if you don't mind plastic tasting dabs for a few weeks.
    Typically I will use reclaim or abv oil to season my nails
     
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  19. Enchantre

    Enchantre A short, pithy statement

    Messages:
    2,488
    Location:
    WA USA
    You might clean the quartz when you get it (Iso or PBW wash & air dry), and don't expect great results until you get the temp right.

    Hitting quartz too hot tastes bad. Hitting too cool will puddle the concentrate. It takes practice, but when you get that spot, it will taste good. Make sure there is no actual "glow" when you hit.
     
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  20. FlyingLow

    FlyingLow Team NO SLEEP!

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    It is a tough question to answer, but how much product might I expect to waste during this learning process?
     
  21. horst

    horst Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    60
    Location:
    Germany
    Very interesting thread. Sitting on a few grams of ABV currently and i am not in the mood for edibles, the buzz is to uncontrollable for me in terms of hit timing, duration and strength.

    Maybe it's a good point to start learning QWISO or the ethanol equivalent without the fear of wasting material, cause your already dealing with some kind of waste product.

    herbivore21: can you give some hints how winterization is done?
     
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  22. FlyingLow

    FlyingLow Team NO SLEEP!

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    LOL, glad this thread is welcomed!

    If you could even take another step back- what does winterization even mean?
    I really am new to all this:)
     
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  23. clouded vision

    clouded vision Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,163
    Winterization is a method of removing waxes from your bho.

    Dissolve the bho in ethanol (any grain neutral spirit, should be 190 or 192 proof) once dissolved place the solution in an air tight container and place it in the freezer for 24 hours. You will also want to freeze anything that will come in contact with the unfiltered solution. I use a stainless steel small wrote strainer and unbleached coffee filters that I trim down, this method will have some loss due to absorption but you can also use a syringe with a filter. After everything is frozen (you will start to see white clouds forming within an hour or so but the longer the freeze the better) filter the solution with your method of choice but you need to keep it frozen while filtering, I leave the strainer tied up above my Pyrex pan in the freezer. Once it is filtered you can evaporate the alcohol of and scrape up your absolute. You will be left with a white goo in the filter that is the wax and you can toss that.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2014
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  24. GR

    GR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    492
    I use TI solely but what I have read, so take it with a lot of salt, it can take 4g to season quartz nails.

    As stated winterizing is a process of using freezing temps to separate out waxes and impurities from your oil. IMO opinion it will sacrifice flavor terpenes for a cleaner oil but it can transform crap oil to a purer form.

    Oil made from good flower is by nature going to have less impurities then oils made from sup par material most would not use for vaping or smoking. Processing flower after harvest for oil is very different the curing flower for vaping or smoking. Terpenes are being lost constantly to the cure process however curing rids flower of the "green" taste and sets it up for how well it will age. Removing moisture quickly from flower after harvest will limit the amount of terpenes that are even lost to the air at 65f-90f during drying which will come through in the oil, I see no reason to strip these good things out of my oil. Then there are the returns, again if using all flower then winterized with alcohol or BHO at -55f ( which seems to leave many flavor terpenes) the return is horrendous, what was once quality sellable bud people don't want to pay for. If someone is getting oil cheap it did not come from top shelf material, if someone is selling winterized oil cheap it definitely didn't come from top shelf material, just my 2 cents.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2014
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  25. farscaper

    farscaper Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    I call mine broke in or seasoned when I figure out just how long each nail takes to heat until it is at a good temp. Usually the seasoning of quartz is not seasoning the quartz.... its seasoning the driver to the quartz demands.

    I choose quartz over ti. This was after using the vapenwiser and a ti pad. Ive used divited quartz nails and cup head quartz nails in 14mm and 18mm. I now use the quartz castle 14mm.

    Some like Ti, others like quartz.

    If you broke a "quartz" nail in a week it is doubtful it was real quartz. Did it come from ebay or a reputable vendor?
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2014

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