Ascent Vaporizer by DaVinci

[nigel]

Folks,

I think I said this before, "mystery vapor", these Forums and DaVinci go a long ways back (in vape terms). If you go to the DV thread and search on "mystery vapor" you'll find 51 posts about it. Lots of discussion of curing silicone rubber (IMO most likely going on here) and a most interesting (to me at least) point from the maker that it's coming from the mica used in the heater there. While the heater in Ascent might be different, companies tend to keep technology (like how to make a heater) that works for them rather than invent something new that may have new problems.
http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/davinci-pocket-vaporizer-by-karma.4928/page-68#post-324950

At any rate, "we have been here before on another time around the wheel.....". We, DV and "mystery vapor" are really old friends. With few exceptions most found it was not a long term problem, I bet the same will happen again? History does repeat here too?

OF

DAMMIT, OF!!! I had a whole bit in the write-up I was working on about the issue with the old units. I've been thinking about it all day. You stole my thunder!

But, there are a lot of analogous points:

• Some people saw it, some people didn't
• Rampant speculation
• The coating on the heating wires was cited as a source (Someone made that point this morning on this issue)
• Discussion of quality of silicone
• etc

It took DV some time to do some detective work, but they eventually figured it out, and the solution was: Better burn-in.

You are correct that it was Mica (and the MSDS indicate it is safe), but it wasn't used in the heater, per se. It was in the insulation. (Okay... maybe that's part of the heater.)

But DV has stated that the Ascent is using a different insulation than the original DaVinci.

I think, otherwise you are on the right track (I'm still working on my write-up. I'll post that soon.)

And I also think you are right that "With few exceptions most found it was not a long term problem, I bet the same will happen again? History does repeat here too?"


Cheers!

 

[Stu]

I found out about the "mystery vapor" with my DV by taking a dry hit during the initial burn off cycle and exhaling vapor.

It didn't kill me, and for all I know it gave me superpowers that I have yet to discover.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

@OF, I also thought that the mica might be an issue but thought that DV had said it was different in the Ascent.

Yes, at this point it's purely speculative as no one actually knows what's going on (perhaps not even DV), but I can't in good faith recommend anyone get the Ascent as of now.

Hell, the old family car (which in turn became mine) had issues with setting itself on fire, leading to a recall (which is why I lovingly nicknamed it the ford exploder instead of explorer )

 

[nigel]

@OF, I also thought that the mica might be an issue but thought that DV had said it was different in the Ascent.

Yes. I mentioned this in my post.

PS: I thought the Pinto was the Ford Exploder.

 

[Skulduggery]

Well I feel like a horse's arse! (Flowers and paranoia? That's a fact). To help with preserving battery life, I've been opening the chamber immediately after use to break the transfer of heat between the oven and the battery pack. Also im keeping the bottom open during burn off, which is taking mine a while. So be it, it will be the last thing that burns in this puppy because fuck combustion, one ascent at a time.

 

[Dreamerr]

Q IIRC from the old thread I think, the mica was going to be in the ascent but supposedly wasn't going to be an issue this time because of the placement of it. I guess it just didn't happen that way.

 

[grokit]

We covered this earlier (today? Yesterday?), but perhaps you weren't around?

The OLED screens were getting scratched to heck in assembly. (And for a few users, they still might be.) To combat this a film and/or a coating were used to protect the screens.

What's happening is a separation of either the film or the coating. I'm unclear on the exact specifics of either, so I can't give you a better answer at this time.

But it is NOT something that "should have been removed" from what I understand. It is something that should have stayed in place to protect the parts, but isn't staying in the place it should.

I was definitely around, and I quoted davinci's statement on the matter, which was quite open to interpretation because it made no fucking sense at all. I am of the opinion that there was a protective film added to the back of the display to correct the earlier genuine scratching issues, and due to a miscommunication the film was never removed during final assembly of the subsequent early batches.

I am also of the opinion that these early production batches were quite rushed and poorly handled in general, from assembly to final distribution. The number of delays, along with the defective and/or cosmetically-flawed units reported in this thread would seem to support this opinion.

edit: The fact that my unit arrived completely dead would seem to support that it wasn't tested, but if it was really rotting for weeks in customs I suppose it could have completely discharged.

 

[nigel]

Q IIRC from the old thread I think, the mica was going to be in the ascent but supposedly wasn't going to be an issue this time because of the placement of it. I guess it just didn't happen that way.

Oh... girl.. Do NOT make me tell you to read a thread!


Yeah, I mentioned it. @Quetzalcoatl mentioned it.

Different insulation.

===========
Back to back post
============

Haha I just noticed another flaw in mine, we now have two(?) with the + and - signs reversed!

HAHAHA!

That's my *second* favorite blunder, after the upside down logo, of course!

I quoted davinci's statement on the matter, which was quite open to interpretation

Yes. Yes, it is. That's why I said earlier I didn't have a solid answer. Your interpretation also makes sense.

I am also of the opinion that these early production batches were quite rushed

I don't think you'll find a single argument here against that.


{EDIT:
THIS!!!! is now my *first* favorite blunder:

Retraction:

The - and + signs are just fine on mine. I'm a bit sublimated, so they keep changing position on me!

Priceless!
}

 

[SSVUN~YAH]

I found out about the "mystery vapor" with my DV by taking a dry hit during the initial burn off cycle and exhaling vapor.

It didn't kill me, and for all I know it gave me superpowers that I have yet to discover.

Did you get bit by a spider at the same time? If so definitely! Maybe it will give you the power to pick Aaron Hernandez over Adrian Peterson??? Only time will tell!!!

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Did you get bit by a spider at the same time? If so definitely! Maybe it will give you the power to pick Aaron Hernandez over Adrian Peterson??? Only time will tell!!!

At least now he can enjoy two different kinds of Mary Jane

 

[njluvdr]

I received a stealth from the second batch to be sent out. No matter how much I use and how tight it's packed I can't get much of a visable vapor much less a cloud. Plus the Blue Bubba I was vaping tasted horrible.This was before I learned about the mystery vapor. I cleaned the unit then did the light test and there was a steady stream of smoke. Unfortunately it's still the same even after a charge and a half of burn in.

 

[grokit]

Retraction:

The - and + signs are just fine on mine. I'm a bit sublimated, so they keep changing position on me!


mod note:

 

[nigel]

On the issue of "off gassing" --

I now have a second unit to test. I've solicited a friend here, and he is making sure I am testing right.

I posted earlier, in response to @thesoloman, that I saw the unexplained wisps in his video and I tried to replicate what he did. Try as I might, I could just NOT do it. He suggested that I just wasn't holding the flashlight at the "magical angle" (my term). I pointed out that I moved the flashlight all over the place, and I should have been able to see SOMETHING based on what I saw on his video. He replied back with an angle I did not think of earlier, so I said I would test that later in the day. [@thesoloman -- I started typing this before I realized you were still online tonight, hence the 3rd person.]

I was still skeptical, but, giving the benefit of doubt, said I would try.
(NOT skeptical that his unit was doing it! I saw the video. Skeptical that I could make MY unit do it.)

Indeed, I have tried it again now, using his suggestion for lighting, and as I suspected, I saw nothing.


I don't know what the difference between his unit and mine is. I know mine has had a LOT of use, and I believe he said he hasn't done that much yet. Perhaps that is it? Or perhaps his "batch" -- which includes the other people that are seeing these wisps on clean/empty units -- was slight different from the batch for the people that DON'T see the wisps?? It would be interesting to perhaps compare the batch/serial numbers???

I DO NOT WANT PEOPLE POSTING THEIR SERIAL NUMBERS PUBLICLY TO THIS GROUP. I know you want to be helpful, but don't. I suspect the group numbers are safe, but most likely all the same.

But, I'm open to any other suggestions for why some units exhibit this behavior, whilst others do not.


.



Ah... But I said "second unit", didn't I...


So, I have in my possession (at least for the next hour or so), a "virgin" unit. This unit has never been used. It has, however, been fully charged (10+ hours) and it has had one "burn-in" of 430° for 20 min. If it matters, it is burl like mine.

I took the unit into a dark room. (It is night where I am, but for "minimizing variables" in the name of Science!, I used the same room. )

I let it run for a bit, then I started doing tests. The only change from before I now have my 500 lumen unit to add to the other lights.

And... nothing.

I shined all of the flashlights all over the place. (one at a time of course -- I only have so many hands) I held it at all angles. I tried open. I tried closed. I moved the light all over the place, including all of @thesoloman's suggestions. Nothing.

I gave up, as I figured this was one of the non-problem units.

But before I turned on the room lights, I was reminded of @Slightly Medicated 's videos I was looking for last night for @Pappy . (Gave up looking as I was lazy. Anyone have links?)

On a lark, I held up the unit to my mouth, held the flashlight under the grill pointing up, and blew.

HORY FUCK!!!!!

I saw smoke pour out of the unit! I almost shit myself. (sorry for the crass expression, but I'm lacking a better one right now)

The smoke wasn't "cloud". But also it was more than "wisp".

It disappeared after about 2 seconds. But I took another breath and did it again.

BINGO!! A few more seconds of smoke!

I was pretty freaked out here. I kept blowing and each time got a few seconds of smoke.

I didn't see *ANY* smoke coming from the unit at all before. WTF???

I finally decided to open the bowl and blow directly there (sidestepping the top part).

Guess what I saw?



Don't know why I didn't look INTO the bowl before, but there sitting, was one of the oil cans WITH THE LID ON.

It was wedged in there (Probably why I didn't realize it was there), and had to use the tool to get it out. (Gravity didn't work).


I tried it again, without the bowl, and this time nothing.

The culprit was the silicone bowl lid.



-----------------

AFTERTHOUGHTS:

• I suspect the problem @thesoloman and others are seeing might indeed be exposed silicone. The smoke I saw seemed to be on par.

• I suspect that there is a production difference between the units that show it and those that don't. (Production defect? I can think of a few ways a defect can produce this. I have some theories, but need more data before I discuss.)

• The "normal" silicone exposure does NOT produce this.

• When we went though this before (DAMN YOU @OF for stealing my thunder!), I believe we got honest responses about the grade/quality of the silicone, and I am not worried.

• For those concerned about the bowl lid, I believe the consensus is that that the oil cans work much better without it anyway, so just don't use them. (Or do a burn in of them... your choice.)

• For the units that are showing the smoke I saw, I think the jury is still out on whether a burn-in will clear it completely. I'm fairly sure it isn't much of an issue, so I'm not too worried. But, if you are worried, DV -- as history has taught us -- has been more than willing to exchange units for new ones if you feel uncomfortable using your current unit, so that isn't an issue.

[SIDENOTE: to all of the rampant speculation about how DV did this deliberately, or won't stand by the units, or not treat customer concerns correctly, or made up the customs hold to cover productions delays, or used non-safe materials, or any other assumptions based upon facts not in evidence, don't worry: They will ship all of the replacement units from their new warehouse in the old sound-stage where the moon landing was faked. ]

 

[Skulduggery]

Is there a mystery smoking burl or croc out there? So far it seems to be stealth owners, such as myself. Been burning at 430 degrees for 65 minutes straight, I still see the mystery stream. Trust that if it needs extra long burn, you can spot the stream easy by slowly moving the flashlight around with a black background. I'm hoping the mystery stream is thinning, hard to tell

 

[nigel]

Is there a mystery smoking burl or croc out there? So far it seems to be stealth owners, such as myself. Been burning at 430 degrees for 65 minutes straight, I still see the mystery stream

There is a croc unit.

One theory I had was that groups of units went out to different finishes. Could very well still be true if were split across finish groups as one completed and the next started, but reserving thought for time being...

 

[Skulduggery]

Would appreciate your thought Nigel, so when all is fixed, someone says, I told you so! I'll go with residual glue burn off. Some posted having outside glue, what if some got inside glue? As who here hasn't sniffed their share of glue as a kid? I'm kidding about the glue. Just keep burning it off folks, that's my bet.

 

[grokit]

It would be cool if we could get a snap-on metal screen for those jars to use instead of the lids. Because that's the only way I can imagine using the ascent for straight keif.

I was reading the instructions and they say that medical grade silicone was used to make the ascent, so naturally I looked that term up on wikipedia.

"Medical grade silicones are silicones tested for biocompatibility and are appropriate to be used for medical applications. In the United States, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) regulates materials implanted into the body. Medical grade silicones are generally grouped into three categories: non implantable, short term implantable, and long-term implantable. Materials approved as USP Class V and VI can be considered medical grade. Most medical grade silicones are at least Class VI certified. Silicone suppliers and some silicone prototyping companies provide guidelines for material use."

So the term medical grade silicone is still not very specific, as there are three different categories and at least six different grades of it, that have not been defined by davinci.

It is probably better than industrial grade silicone, but I have no idea really. Are there any polymer engineers around? Now would be a great time to weigh in!

 

[HalfQ]

You still don't get it. See that Staff Member banner on my avatar? That says I do have more say in than you do, and my say is that you don't get to make any more unwarranted accusations about toxins. You can say there is is an unknown gas that you don't want to inhale, but if you call it toxic again you get a point. Now do you get it?

You're a looser .. I hope you enjoy being a staff member cause you have no life

 

[HalfQ]

On the issue of "off gassing" --

I now have a second unit to test. I've solicited a friend here, and he is making sure I am testing right.

I posted earlier, in response to @thesoloman, that I saw the unexplained wisps in his video and I tried to replicate what he did. Try as I might, I could just NOT do it. He suggested that I just wasn't holding the flashlight at the "magical angle" (my term). I pointed out that I moved the flashlight all over the place, and I should have been able to see SOMETHING based on what I saw on his video. He replied back with an angle I did not think of earlier, so I said I would test that later in the day. [@thesoloman -- I started typing this before I realized you were still online tonight, hence the 3rd person.]

I was still skeptical, but, giving the benefit of doubt, said I would try.
(NOT skeptical that his unit was doing it! I saw the video. Skeptical that I could make MY unit do it.)

Indeed, I have tried it again now, using his suggestion for lighting, and as I suspected, I saw nothing.


I don't know what the difference between his unit and mine is. I know mine has had a LOT of use, and I believe he said he hasn't done that much yet. Perhaps that is it? Or perhaps his "batch" -- which includes the other people that are seeing these wisps on clean/empty units -- was slight different from the batch for the people that DON'T see the wisps?? It would be interesting to perhaps compare the batch/serial numbers???

I DO NOT WANT PEOPLE POSTING THEIR SERIAL NUMBERS PUBLICLY TO THIS GROUP. I know you want to be helpful, but don't. I suspect the group numbers are safe, but most likely all the same.

But, I'm open to any other suggestions for why some units exhibit this behavior, whilst others do not.


.



Ah... But I said "second unit", didn't I...


So, I have in my possession (at least for the next hour or so), a "virgin" unit. This unit has never been used. It has, however, been fully charged (10+ hours) and it has had one "burn-in" of 430° for 20 min. If it matters, it is burl like mine.

I took the unit into a dark room. (It is night where I am, but for "minimizing variables" in the name of Science!, I used the same room. )

I let it run for a bit, then I started doing tests. The only change from before I now have my 500 lumen unit to add to the other lights.

And... nothing.

I shined all of the flashlights all over the place. (one at a time of course -- I only have so many hands) I held it at all angles. I tried open. I tried closed. I moved the light all over the place, including all of @thesoloman's suggestions. Nothing.

I gave up, as I figured this was one of the non-problem units.

But before I turned on the room lights, I was reminded of @Slightly Medicated 's videos I was looking for last night for @Pappy . (Gave up looking as I was lazy. Anyone have links?)

On a lark, I held up the unit to my mouth, held the flashlight under the grill pointing up, and blew.

HORY FUCK!!!!!

I saw smoke pour out of the unit! I almost shit myself. (sorry for the crass expression, but I'm lacking a better one right now)

The smoke wasn't "cloud". But also it was more than "wisp".

It disappeared after about 2 seconds. But I took another breath and did it again.

BINGO!! A few more seconds of smoke!

I was pretty freaked out here. I kept blowing and each time got a few seconds of smoke.

I didn't see *ANY* smoke coming from the unit at all before. WTF???

I finally decided to open the bowl and blow directly there (sidestepping the top part).

Guess what I saw?



Don't know why I didn't look INTO the bowl before, but there sitting, was one of the oil cans WITH THE LID ON.

It was wedged in there (Probably why I didn't realize it was there), and had to use the tool to get it out. (Gravity didn't work).


I tried it again, without the bowl, and this time nothing.

The culprit was the silicone bowl lid.



-----------------

AFTERTHOUGHTS:

• I suspect the problem @thesoloman and others are seeing might indeed be exposed silicone. The smoke I saw seemed to be on par.

• I suspect that there is a production difference between the units that show it and those that don't. (Production defect? I can think of a few ways a defect can produce this. I have some theories, but need more data before I discuss.)

• The "normal" silicone exposure does NOT produce this.

• When we went though this before (DAMN YOU @OF for stealing my thunder!), I believe we got honest responses about the grade/quality of the silicone, and I am not worried.

• For those concerned about the bowl lid, I believe the consensus is that that the oil cans work much better without it anyway, so just don't use them. (Or do a burn in of them... your choice.)

• For the units that are showing the smoke I saw, I think the jury is still out on whether a burn-in will clear it completely. I'm fairly sure it isn't much of an issue, so I'm not too worried. But, if you are worried, DV -- as history has taught us -- has been more than willing to exchange units for new ones if you feel uncomfortable using your current unit, so that isn't an issue.

[SIDENOTE: to all of the rampant speculation about how DV did this deliberately, or won't stand by the units, or not treat customer concerns correctly, or made up the customs hold to cover productions delays, or used non-safe materials, or any other assumptions based upon facts not in evidence, don't worry: They will ship all of the replacement units from their new warehouse in the old sound-stage where the moon landing was faked. ]

You're a moron

 

[Adobewan]

You're a looser .. I hope you enjoy being a staff member cause you have no life

You're a moron

Mods must be asleep.
I'm guessing your minutes are numbered on this forum.
Hope you get some help!
Peace

 

[thedanks]

I meant the seal beteeen the two halves. I myself would be seeing if I could get that grill off. Just to I can see what is going on.

i think i'll not and say i didn't

You're a looser .. I hope you enjoy being a staff member cause you have no life

You're a moron

So long brotha! Keep fighting the good fight!

 

[sam reynolds]

Mods must be asleep.
I'm guessing your minutes are numbered on this forum.
Hope you get some help!
Peace

Going by his post history, it almost looks like he got hacked.

 

[Krizzle]

@sam reynolds Hi Sam to your question about the size of the RYOT case. I own the RYOT smell safe headcase and can confirm it fits my Solo and 2 PVHES stems in. Hope that helps as I know you already have the Solo.

 

[thedanks]

another update... i am still off-gassing god knows how many cycles later at the same amount as it was when i first received it. It doesnt even appear to have slowed.

 

[[censored]]

You are correct that it was Mica (and the MSDS indicate it is safe), but it wasn't used in the heater, per se. It was in the insulation. (Okay... maybe that's part of the heater.)

But DV has stated that the Ascent is using a different insulation than the original DaVinci

...but mica is not safe at all. It is associated with permanent scarring to the lungs. Any MSDS should highlight this... DV claim to be using a new insulation but the off gassing is exactly the same as the old DV. They explained it as mica dust last time. They then claimed mica dust was safe, but it is not at all, as I mentioned previously. So if the off gassing was mica last time them it must be mica this time, as it looks exactly the same. Speculation and lies are not beyond DV, and I've never seen any other vape give off a steady stream of white vapor. And if it was silicone last time then it must be silicone this time.
Someone has claimed that the mica was not in the heater, but the off gassing comes out of the oven, nowhere else. This suggests that the source is inside the heater. It would be nice if DV could be a bit more open about it all. New insulation eh? Why don't they specify what it is...