Aromazap/Myrtlezap/CeramicRockZap

[AGBeer]

Here's my take on the brass issue, for whatever it's worth, and I stated some of this in the PD thread as well.

It all has to do with the self-limitations that one wants to exercise regarding what they want to ingest or what they don't want to ingest. Some have a major concern about heating up brass that contains lead to vaping temps and inhaling vapor that flows across heated up brass. Others have no concern whatsoever. While the risk may be minuscule, it is a risk that some may not be willing to take, and yet at the same time, we are willing to take other risks. People in general are pretty odd in that way. Take me for an example. I desire not to vape out of anything that contains brass, but yet, when I buy my fruits and veggies at the market, I only give them a quick rinse under water before eating. Others wash and scrub their produce with produce soap and a produce scrub brush to try and get any bacteria and pesticides off the them before they ingest them. I used to work for a pretty wealthy guy who would purchase a 300 hundred dollar bottle of wine whenever we went out to lunch, and yet he got pissed at me for handing out business cards to customers who didn't make a purchase because they cost to much. I wonder how many people complain about vaping through brass and yet smoke tobacco all day.

It's all about what we wish to tolerate and what we don't wish to tolerate. As I've said before, I don't think it's a right or wrong issue here. It's just different, and as such, I don't quite understand all of the sarcastic comments aimed at those that have a concern about vaping through products that contain leaded brass and yet at the same time, I never hear sarcastic comments against those that have no problem in using products that contain brass, excluding of course, Tom and Rick, for they are both coming from a different perspective. Just because you choose to vape through brass doesn't automatically make those that choose not to vape through brass, a bunch of loony tin heads.

 

[IAmKrazy2]

In my honest opinion Iwien, it is not different at all.

But, if you didn't do what you do, i probably wouldn't like you or your posts as much as i sometimes do like them. So yes i know your desire to sometimes stir up the pot, is helpful. In this scenario though, the pot has been on the stove too long, and stirring it any more isn't helping my stew taste better.

 

[reece]

Lwien,

You are correct about people being funny about their preferences. However, I don't see anyone calling anyone else, literally or figuratively, a "bunch of tin heads." To me, it seems any sarcasm is directed at the fact that Tom will take any chance he can to put down Rick and his product. He did it in the very first post of the PD thread, before Rick was here to defend himself, and he continues to do so now.

Look at how this recent thing started. I don't know what stinkmeaner's motivation is. Maybe he is emulating his namesake (google stinkmeaner and boondocks)? But stinkmeaner's posts are besides the point.

tomitface made a post about finding Ed's wooden vapor stems and was informing those in the PD thread.

Tom's brought up lead in his reply, but of course he tried to play it as if tomitface's suggestion brought up lead, which it didn't.

That is where the sarcasm is directed, Lwien. Not at you. Not at those who wish not to take a chance with brass. it is directed at Tom who will not pass up a chance to rehash the brass issue. At Tom, who obviously thinks others are not too bright as he stirs things up but acts as if others are doing so.

So, take stinkmeaner out of this. Yes, he is keeping it going by arguing with y'all over there. But Tom brought up lead. Consider this:

If Tom had made this reply to tomitface,

Please, don't link to other (non-PD-endorsed) products through our official thread. There probably should be a rule. please delete that info. It is not welcome.

Then there would be no brass in the discussion. But even stinkmeaner's reply to Tom was about members being able to make suggestion in the threads. His argument was about allowing folks to share their "experiences and ideas," and again Tom brought up the lead. Again, there was no need to. Tom could have just addressed the points stink was making, but instead he, again, complained that others were bringing up the lead issue.

The Lead in Brass, that was used by another mfg., keeps getting dragged into this thread. Let it be, and it will die...

But up to this point Tom is the only person who mentions lead, stinkmeaner addresses it in a subsequent post, as he is chastising others for mentioning lead. Check it out and be honest with yourself.

Who brought lead into the conversation? Not tomitface (the post that started it all), not stinkmeaner (who, for some reason needs to argue with Tom and keep it going). Tom did, and then he tried to make it seem like others brought up lead.

Fuck, I hope no one posts saying, "I just had a pb&j sandwich and then got vaked with my PD."

Because Tom would say, "Please refrain from abbreviating peanut butter. It brings up the lead (Pb) issue, you know the issue about AromaZap using leaded brass and you are associating the PD with a product that admitted to using brass. But you abbreviated peanut butter for a purpose, didn't you? You Zap guys just can't stop dragging this issue into my thread."

Serously Lwien, do you think Tom could have replied to tomitface and stinkmeaner without bringing up leaded brass?

 

[momofthegoons]

The first thing I want to say is that IMO lwien is as welcome in this thread as any other on this forum. He also has a right to post in any thread he wants; as we all do. And, he can post whatever he wants, just as we all can within the rules of the forum. He has recently endorsed the Zap and has defended it against the ongoing lead nonissue to many. Yes, he is a PD owner, and prefers to use that vape. So what? I am happy to see him here in this thread posting, and was very happy the day it started happening. I don't see his comments as "stirring the pot" as much as trying to stop the opportunities for the "whack-a-mole" game that Tom is playing when Zap owners go to the PD thread.

What Tom seems to fail to understand is that it's this very attitude that drives people to other vape solutions.

I think what's happening here is not so much that people who use brass products think that those who don't are "tin heads." I think that I can speak for the majority here when I say that we are just tired of Tom's rhetoric. His agenda is personal. And he should allow his product to rest on it's own merits instead of dragging this forum into a personal vendetta to sell it. But that's just my

Meanwhile, back to Zap business. Return, if your ABV is still green, I would say you haven't cashed it. This might fall under that "can't see the vapor so it must be done" thing. Try blowing out your ABV, recrumbling, and repacking. I'll bet you get a few more hits. The Zap wont get the ABV as dark as some of the desk top and whip vapes, but it shouldn't still be green.

 

[lwien]

Serously Lwien, do you think Tom could have replied to tomitface and stinkmeaner without bringing up leaded brass?

I'm really trying desperately not to take sides here and if I attempt to answer your question, it may seem like I am, and I really don't want to do that, but fuck it. I'll answer it anyway.

Yes, you are correct. Tom could have replied without bringing up the leaded brass issue and in post #5948 in the PD thread, I implied just that and in the following post, Tom agreed that he would try to tone it down.

But here's the way I look at it. Tom and Rick both make competing products that are very similar to one another and therefore, it would make total sense for either manufacturer to try and differentiate there product from one another anytime the opportunity arises. Tom has chosen the brass issue to make that differentiation. Rick has chosen Toms attitude to make that differentiation. Now I totally understand that both Tom and Rick may disagree with me as to their intentions, but I firmly believe that that is what is really happening here. Add to that, that there seems to be some long standing tension between them that has possibly boiled over the line of just friendly competition, and it is that tension that I would also like to see subside.

Regarding one manufacturer maligning another manufacturers product to gain a marketing advantage is very typical. Just look at the Apple ads on TV when they compare Mac's to PC's. That's just one example. Happens all the time.

 

[Screwdriver]

Serously Lwien, do you think Tom could have replied to tomitface and stinkmeaner without bringing up leaded brass?

I'm really trying desperately not to take sides here and if I attempt to answer your question, it may seem like I am, and I really don't want to do that, but fuck it. I'll answer it anyway.

Yes, you are correct. Tom could have replied without bringing up the leaded brass issue and in post #5948 in the PD thread, I implied just that and in the following post, Tom agreed that he would try to tone it down.

But here's the way I look at it. Tom and Rick both make competing products that are very similar to one another and therefore, it would make total sense for either manufacturer to try and differentiate there product from one another anytime the opportunity arises. Tom has chosen the brass issue to make that differentiation. Rick has chosen Toms attitude to make that differentiation. Now I totally understand that both Tom and Rick may disagree with me as to their intentions, but I firmly believe that that is what is really happening here. Add to that, that there seems to be some long standing tension between them that has possibly boiled over the line of just friendly competition, and it is that tension that I would also like to see subside.

Regarding one manufacturer maligning another manufacturers product to gain a marketing advantage is very typical. Just look at the Apple ads on TV when they compare Mac's to PC's. That's just one example. Happens all the time.

But Tom keeps bringing up lead to differentiate his product from Ricks. All Zaps manufactured for awhile have been lead free, RoHS compliant, just as Toms. It Tom said....well his uses brass and mine uses stainless and kept it at that, then he would have some credibility. But he flat out lies and spreads mis-truths to make his product, one which btw no one can buy pre-built, seem safer.

Maybe I should start mentioning Chromium and back my statements up with zero proof when comparing log vapes.

When I was looking at log vapes, it was between the PD and MZ......Tom's attitude turned me off. Guess which one I bought?

 

[lwien]

But Tom keeps bringing up lead to differentiate his product from Ricks. All Zaps manufactured for awhile have been lead free, RoHS compliant, just as Toms. It Tom said....well his uses brass and mine uses stainless and kept it at that, then he would have some credibility. But he flat out lies and spreads mis-truths to make his product, one which btw no one can buy pre-built, seem safer.

But that is simply not the case. Since Rick has changed the type of brass that he is using, Tom has always referred to "leaded" brass in the MZ in the past tense. You may want to re-read the most recent posts. The most recent posts had to do TnT's wooden tubes that have brass tips. Are those brass tips being manufactured with the same lead free brass that Rick is now using?

So while I agree that Tom's attitude about all this is a bit over the top and is obviously fueled by things other than just being competitive, I don't believe that he is flat out lying. Nor do I believe that Rick is flat out lying, and I think that both would disagree with me. I do think, however, that the flaming rhetoric needs to be toned down and while I understand that each side desires to garner as much sales as they can, there is enough desire for this type of vape, that both manufacturers can do quite well without smashing each other in the face with baseball bats, for in this case, I think nerf balls would be quite adequate. The vape market is too young for this to turn into a Hatfield and McCoy feud.

 

[Ed's TnT]

You bet My tubes are being made from the same lead free brass Rick is using, the two piece tips themselves came from Rick!

 

[lwien]

You bet My tubes are being made from the same lead free brass Rick is using, the two piece tips themselves came from Rick!

That's good to know, Ed. Thanks for the feedback. Rick recently changed the type of brass that he is using in his MZ's. Nice to know that you are using the same.

 

[momofthegoons]

Since Rick has changed the type of brass that he is using, Tom has always referred to "leaded" brass in the MZ in the past tense.

lwien, this isn't completely true. If you look at Tom's post #5901 in the PD thread, he's edited it several times. Once was to address the question of "how does the lead get into the airpath?" His answer was from touching the tips. Then, when that didn't fly, he edited it once again to ask about the mineral oil in the Zapolish. What's next? The lavender oil for the diffuser? It's just getting old and IMO throwing out constant accusations is a poor choice in promoting his product. Comparison is one thing, slander is another.

 

[lwien]

Since Rick has changed the type of brass that he is using, Tom has always referred to "leaded" brass in the MZ in the past tense.

lwien, this isn't completely true. If you look at Tom's post #5901 in the PD thread, he's edited it several times. Once was to address the question of "how does the lead get into the airpath?" His answer was from touching the tips. Then, when that didn't fly, he edited it once again to ask about the mineral oil in the Zapolish. What's next? The lavender oil for the diffuser? It's just getting old and IMO throwing out constant accusations is a poor choice in promoting his product. Comparison is one thing, slander is another.

mom, I just read that post. Unfortunately, I don't think I read through all of the edits but I don't think that there is anything in that post that is slanderous, ie, making false statements. Malicious, yes. False, no. What he is doing is raising questions in that post, but I don't see him making any out and out false statements.

Listen, I am not defending Tom's tactics here. I've said previously in this thread that I think it's over the top and too aggressive and that he should bring it down a few notches. There is a lot of anger mixed in with his statements, and in my opinion, I think, from a business standpoint, it would be best to separate ones negative emotions when trying to market their product, for it could have, as has been stated here previously, have the exact opposite affect than what one would want to portray.

 

[Rick]

OK, my turn.
To repeat again, ALL of our brass tubing we use is from the same manufacturer. It is and has been RoHS lead free brass. The only thing I ever changed was the heatsink porttion of the assembly. The air that passed by that piece of brass was very close to ambient temperature. The heater rests in the center of the RoHS brass and always has. The stem tips have always(yes, I said always) been RoHS lead free brass but I did not know it. And now I will make a statement about the core of the issue here. If anybody would like to disprove what I am about to say, go for it.
There has never been any lead in the heated air our unit produces to vaporize herb and there never will be.
Now I want to say I read a nice comment from Tom on his thread in response to a post made by IAmKrazy2 on the PD thread asking us all to chill. lwein agreed. Tom agreed.
So no mas please from any people who prefer the MZ. Lets be respectful of each other. And Tom and I need to know that if a trigger pops up or a chain drops, we still can respond in a way that does not put one another or our respective product down.

A real crazy week here in Zapville. That long lasting family matter involving grandkids has reared its ugly head again this week. Just got back from a visit with my 10 yr old grandson who is confined(not the legal system) because of a loose screw in our(ex) family. Only problem is the visit did not happen because the loose screw would not even give me 5 minutes with my grandson. "Mothers trump grandparents" says the nurse. "OK, tell him I love him". The irony of this issue is I posted on OG(overgrow.com) almost ten years ago on the same subject/person. Everybody said then that what is happening now would happen. What a story.

and thank you Tom

 

[lwien]

And now I will make a statement about the core of the issue here. If anybody would like to disprove what I am about to say, go for it.
There has never been any lead in the heated air our unit produces to vaporize herb and there never will be.

Ok, you said "go for it", so, I will.

In lieu of a lab doing an analysis of the heated air coming out of ANY vaporizer, I don't believe that a conclusive statement can be made one way or the other, and this goes for the PD as well for we all know that smoke from burning wood is carcinogenic. But what about the stuff that comes from wood that is being heated up to vape temps? Is this a concern for all wooden vapes? How charred is the wood inside of these vapes after a years worth of use? Only a lab analysis can really give us an answer.

So while I understand that you want to state that there never has been any lead in the heated air coming out of an MZ, in my opinion, that is a statement that is not based in fact but rather based upon assumptions.

There was an interesting thread on people being concerned about the aluminum in the Volcano's and the 'Cano's were sent to an independent lab for testing, and came back with an analysis that stated that there was no aluminum oxides in the vapor produced by the Volcano. I sure would like to see this kind of independent testing done with EVERY vape on the market, especially being that many of us turn to vaporizers for health concerns. Unfortunately, I think for most companies, this would be cost prohibitive, although from a marketing perspective, could prove to be a very worthwhile investment.

 

[stinkmeaner]

I did not mean to start up the war between materials again, he brought that up, I just didn't like the idea of a manufacturer dictating forum content. The guy just wanted to use a wood stem similar to all of you that use bongs with your vaporizer. I do admit that when he brought up the lead/brass issue that I had to bring up that his vaporizer was not certified safe or certified ROHS, something that I hope will change in the world of vaprozers. Making claims with terms like "do you care what goes into your breathing equipment?" & "Fully RoHS Compliant", I am not an expert but before making claims like that I would assume you would get it certified safe like the Volcano did, statements like that are strong when you have a big fan base and many website visitors. There are other toxins than the 6 on that list anyway, and I am not saying ANY vaporizer is toxic or hazardous but there is more to worry about in the world than 6 items, I wish that were not the case.

I stand by whatever I say/post and try not to edit them later unless I feel like I insulted someone on a personal level, I do understand feelings get involved when the posts heat up I try not to take things personally so I have decided not to respond to the last couple of posts directed towards me in that thread.

 

[lwien]

I stand by whatever I say/post and try not to edit them later unless I feel like I insulted someone on a personal level.............

Fuck, I wish I could that. I edit my posts numerous times and it has nothing to do with insulting someone or not, but everything to do with trying to get my point across in the best way possible. I never can get it right the first time around.

Edit:
"I edit cause i am about always ripped and often my sentences/spelling/madness makes no sense otherwise."
---IAmKrazy2

Yeah, that too.

 

[IAmKrazy2]

I edit cause i am about always ripped and often my sentences/spelling/madness makes no sense otherwise. I tend to love run-on sentences too.... sweet!


Edit - Fuck, i had to go back just to edit the couple of words i typed above so they could make sense. Enough said.



Oh and by the way, those wood stems from Ed's do look awesome.

 

[AGBeer]

I just farted in my chair and it stinks.

If you are missing my point, I will gladly let you come and sniff it.
(Okay, has my empty posting/trolling ended the glue making?)

Im still loving on my Zap, and I just sold another one I had floating around to a buddy of mine. He was in love when he first hit mine a while back. It feels good to finally be able to get one into his hands. (He just texted me earlier too to let me know that it was the pimp.)

 

[reece]

Serously Lwien, do you think Tom could have replied to tomitface and stinkmeaner without bringing up leaded brass?

I'm really trying desperately not to take sides here and if I attempt to answer your question, it may seem like I am, and I really don't want to do that, but fuck it. I'll answer it anyway.

Yes, you are correct. Tom could have replied without bringing up the leaded brass issue and in post #5948 in the PD thread, I implied just that and in the following post, Tom agreed that he would try to tone it down.

But here's the way I look at it. Tom and Rick both make competing products that are very similar to one another and therefore, it would make total sense for either manufacturer to try and differentiate there product from one another anytime the opportunity arises. Tom has chosen the brass issue to make that differentiation. Rick has chosen Toms attitude to make that differentiation. Now I totally understand that both Tom and Rick may disagree with me as to their intentions, but I firmly believe that that is what is really happening here. Add to that, that there seems to be some long standing tension between them that has possibly boiled over the line of just friendly competition, and it is that tension that I would also like to see subside.

Regarding one manufacturer maligning another manufacturers product to gain a marketing advantage is very typical. Just look at the Apple ads on TV when they compare Mac's to PC's. That's just one example. Happens all the time.

I agree with you Lwien, except the word malign, and it doesn't seem like you're taking sides. And really, I don't care about Tom bringing up the brass issue because it's a double edged sword. Sure, some may decide on the PD because of Tom's attacks. Others get turned off by it. However, to be clear, he goes beyond touting his product over another. He constantly claims Rick deceived him. Yet he admits he assumed there was no lead because Rick said there was lead-free solder. He cannot take responsibility for his own actions and assumptions. Just as he blames others for making him bring up the lead issue. Apple compares their product's functions to another product's. They do no accuse PC makers of nefarious business activity, of intentionally deceiving their customers, or of risking their customer's health to save money. Apple does not address PC makers' character or try to call their integrity into question.

If they did, wouldn't they have to prove it? And I don't think a judge will accept "He said one thing so I assumed another," as proof of wrongdoing.


I'd like to see it all end also, but there is an old saying in my neck of the woods, "Don't start no shit won't be no shit."

Maybe I'm not seeing this clearly but, from the beginning Rick has been defending his product and business practices. Rick has been replying to Tom.

To paraphrase Funkadelic, If you don't like the effects, tell Tom to stop producing the cause.


Honestly, if my advice is worth anything, I would ask Rick to ignore Tom. But I do understand some things cannot, and should not be ignored.

 

[the ob]

welcome to the most tiring subject in the world. I wish there was a "yawn" icon. In every case Rick replies just to defend himself. I am sure there is not one example of Rick starting an argument on this subject. If there is I would like to see it.

I wonder what it would take to make this stop? I have a saying that I use all the time in my business and I think it applies here to everyone involved.

Love the one your with.

I am going to leave it at that.

I thought vaping was supposed to be fun. and to ease not cause pain. reading about this subject over and over is causing many of us pain.

 

[Hammock Guru]

I love my Zaps; each and every one of them.

 

[_7]

Well with the PD back-up I've been looking for a substitute and I thought I found it. Unfortunately for me I live up in Canada and you guys don't ship up here so I can't buy your wonderful product, which is a tad frustrating. Great looking product, I'm quite sad that I'm unable to purchase it but nothing I can do.

 

[Screwdriver]

Well with the PD back-up I've been looking for a substitute and I thought I found it. Unfortunately for me I live up in Canada and you guys don't ship up here so I can't buy your wonderful product, which is a tad frustrating. Great looking product, I'm quite sad that I'm unable to purchase it but nothing I can do.

 

[momofthegoons]

Just had some company for a few days and had to keep "everything" really stealth while they were here. The woman that was here with her kids is super straight. I put away a lot of my herb related things (glass stems, whip vape, grinder, etc., but left my Walnita zap out in the open the whole time she was here. Since it just sort of blends into the paneling, she never noticed it. I would sneak into my room every so often and take a stem full. Since the smell is negligible, no one knew a thing.

What a thing of beauty!!!

 

[Dirtydan]

Hey Rick, I want to start off by saying you make a great product and you seem to always be willing to help costumers. You also continue to offer your product without a waiting list you can sit on for months and I really appreciate and understand the hard work that must go into that. I ordered a myrtlezap on Sunday night and a friend of mine ordered a primo kit on Wednesday morning i believe. We are VERY excited to receive our myrtlezaps. It has basically been the conversation piece for the past week and we are even taking tolerance breaks in anticipation of your great product. I do not want you to think that I am being an impatient asshole but I was wondering when we should be expecting to see our new vapes in the mail. Again I am not trying to rush you in any way, I saw your post saying how it has been a bit of a crazy week and I understand. Both me and my bud are having it shipped to the central part of Florida.

I can't stress enough how thankful we are that you continue to offer it without waiting lists, Thanks.

 

[return2heaven]

have to say, i absolutely love the glass tooty.