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A Newbie Question.....

Discussion in 'Ask FC' started by lwien, Dec 15, 2012.

  1. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,098
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    Ok, I know you're gonna say this sounds like it's coming from a vapor newb. Hell, I think it sounds like it's coming from a vapor newb, but fuck it, I'm gonna ask anyway. ;)

    Using the same bud, with the same grind, same temp, bla, bla, bla, do you find that you use more bud when going through water to reach the same high than if you didn't go through water......or not?

    I mean, for me, I know that I get higher quicker going through water because I can take a much bigger hits, but............

    Thoughts?

    Edit: Now I'm wondering if I'm just mind-fucking myself 'cause I'm really vaped. :uhh:
  2. Stu

    Stu Maconheiro Staff Member

    Messages:
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    put the LSV down and slowly back away, lwien...

    Seriously though, I think there is a tradeoff with water. You may lose some actives, and may take 'wasteful' hits, but for me at least I cough much less, so I can hold more vapor in my lungs for more time, thus infusing my body with more actives.

    Or maybe not. I just like playing with toys. :science:

    :peace:
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  3. HighlyEducatedScholar

    HighlyEducatedScholar Student of Vapor

    Messages:
    583
    what Stu said.

    anddd. in addition, your increased sense of 'high-ness' may be due to a change in pattern of behavior, which in this case is vaping. in a way you broke your old 'habitual tolerance' by using a water pipe to vape with.

    this is why i like to change up my ritual by vaping in different ways such as using my UD with a glass stem, using it with a water pipe, breaking up my UD usage by exclusively vaping with my MFLB for a few days. keeps your brain guessing!
  4. Stu

    Stu Maconheiro Staff Member

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    Location:
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    In lwien's case, I think it's the new wrench (lsv) and not the water. Are you still using that old beaker, lwien?

    :peace:
    HighlyEducatedScholar likes this.
  5. nicelytoasted

    nicelytoasted Vaked Chemist

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    Location:
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    I'm not sure there is a definitive answer here.

    Going through water does seem to encourage larger hits, since it is quite a bit smoother, so you may get a larger amount of actives faster. This may give a quicker "buzz spike".

    The relatively smaller hits without water may not have the spike, but may last longer overall. It's all a matter of rate of dosage, and user technique/preferences, imo. Some may like the spike, others may like the steady plateau.

    However, as long as you vape as many actives as possible, over your seshes, you are still optimizing the experience, one way or the other.

    So my answer is: there is no answer.
    vtac likes this.
  6. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,098
    Location:
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    I know that works for "working out" the body, but I never thought the same would apply to your brain. Makes sense......

    lol............yeah.

    Oh good. That makes me feel soooo much better. :)
  7. Egzoset

    Egzoset Vaporist v2.0

    Messages:
    2,270
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Salutations LWien,

    Welcome on board mister newbie!... Ha! Ha! Ha! :myday:

    Overall i'd simply agree to all of the above opinions! :)

    Once there was a post explaining that coughing could actually promote absorption but i prefer not to if that's avoidable. So, i've chosen to experiment with fog conditioning instead and i'm getting favorable results. Coughing all along ruins the moment IMHO, at least with the addition of moisture i've been able to find a much more convenient alternative although it still makes me cough on occasions but with significantly lesser intensity. The satisfaction feeling for me implies remnants of my former hashish smoker life i guess, years ago when i had the lungs for it. If there's enough of a pepper/spice titilating sensation in my throat and the exhales remain visible then that's a solid basis to build on. Bags help because of their blending action which makes the inhalation easier to handle since it's sort of being normalized. Aroma and taste are obviously affected as there are no "spikes" but doing so provides better control to consumers with irritable airways IMHO and hence in the end i believe it's better to get a long, steady and slightly less stricking gustative perception (there's plenty of time to enjoy with a bag), in comparison to some intense but elusive toke.

    My best results have been obtained while inhaling from a bag though an ultrasonic moiturizer so far:

    [​IMG]

    ...but i'm not sure it woks for real so i'm afraid i'll have to test it again... :smug:

    :peace:
  8. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,098
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    LOL. That really looks odd. Kinda like an 1950's alien Mr. Potato Head. :)
    Egzoset likes this.
  9. Egzoset

    Egzoset Vaporist v2.0

    Messages:
    2,270
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Hi again!

    I see your point but that shape inspired me a slightly different image i must confess!...

    [​IMG]
    ConeHeads!!

    Ah! Ah! It all depends who we gather with, right?!! [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    ...

    In addition, the product as illustrated may not be ideal for our application but it was available locally (in Canada) and i found out after bringing it back home that it has some versatility built in which proves to be convenient enough for my purpose at the moment.

    Though the readers must keep in mind that's still an experiment.

    :peace:
  10. pakalolo

    pakalolo RoboMod v3.17 (ticking) Staff Member

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    I call bullshit on any claim that coughing promotes adsorption (not absortion, different process). When you cough, you expel the vapor and most everything else in your lungs at surprising velocities (up to 280 m/s or 500 mph). It is impossible to adsorb the vapor you just coughed out. I have tried to find science that shows that coughing promotes adsorption and all I ever come up with is stoners adamantly insisting that it's true. If you or anyone else can point to scientific proof, I'd love to see it.
    Egzoset and Tweek like this.
  11. NotPotRelated

    NotPotRelated MFLB Pro

    Messages:
    180
    The water cools down the smoke , which makes it easier to inhale alot at once which is preffered by many.
  12. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,098
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    For me, cooling down the vapor does nothing as far as making it easier to inhale more at once. What DOES help me inhale more at once is adding moisture to the vapor. When I vape thru a bong with ice, the vapor is just as harsh as if I didn't go thru water at all. Yeah, it's cooler, but just as harsh, but...............vaping thru hot water literally takes all the harshness away and that moisturized vapor just enters my lungs without any harshness whatsoever, allowing me to take HUGE hits.
    Tweek likes this.
  13. Tweek

    Tweek Well-Known Member

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    6,142
    What happened was, one night this stoner guy...lets call him Frank...took a huge rip off his buddies bong and coughed it all out like some newb...so to save face, he made up this theory of absorption.
  14. Egzoset

    Egzoset Vaporist v2.0

    Messages:
    2,270
    Location:
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    Salutations Pakalolo,
    Salutations LWien,

    I'm not a man of absolutes so if i can't prove or disprove something i just refer to open the door to dialog so the person can explain what justifies that claim, but i don't know who that person is anyway...

    There's a lot of that in my own observations. Since i've evaluated fog conditioning it's clear i get moisture back into my cannabic vapor but fog is cold too and ballons don't conserve heat well neither... So in the end i happen to use both moisture & heat removal and i don't see how to pick sides based on some demonstration meant to test moisture addition versus heat removal. Still trying to imagine something at the moment...

    :peace:
  15. pakalolo

    pakalolo RoboMod v3.17 (ticking) Staff Member

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    Whatever you say, Frank.
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  16. Stu

    Stu Maconheiro Staff Member

    Messages:
    5,009
    Location:
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    Frank the tank.
    [​IMG]
    :peace:
  17. djonkoman

    djonkoman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,608
    the version of the story I heard is that supposedly some structure/thingin your lungs is opened up by coughing, but the same would be achieved by exhaling slowly.
    I'm not really sure what I shpuld think about it, I won't experiment for myself since I don't think coughing is worth the potential of a bit more efficiency, I trained myself to not cough pretty early in my smokingdays.

    for me the benefit of a bong also mainly seems to be moisture. I do get higher more quickly without water filtration, wich is fine for a while, but if I keep vaping without water filttration I will get throat irritation, mostly while taking a hit.
    so sometimes I do switch it up and vape without bong, but then later in the night when I'm already pretty high I usually switch back to spare my throath.
    and if I have just taken a hit I can see a lot of condensation in my bong
  18. pakalolo

    pakalolo RoboMod v3.17 (ticking) Staff Member

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    You're referring to the alveoli, which are the little sacs in your lungs where gas exchange happens. I have never found any scientific description that says coughing expands the aveoli and promotes gas exchange. Quite the opposite, coughing is bad for the alveoli and can cause them to rupture.
  19. nicelytoasted

    nicelytoasted Vaked Chemist

    Messages:
    183
    Location:
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    Actually, I believe that it's more due to the water acting as a filter to scrub out the particulates, especially the smallest ones, which are a cause for the harshness, and more coughing.
  20. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,098
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    Then how come I get harshness when packing my beaker with ice cubes and cool water but I get no harshness when vaping through very warm water (almost hot)?

    We're all a bit different and therefore, we all react a bit differently to things. While small particulates may affect some, they don't affect me, if in fact, there are any particulates when I vape. While some people require ice to cool down the vapor so they don't cough, ice and cool water has the exact opposite affect on me. Warm water, however DOES work for me, and I have no doubt that for some, warm water will not work at all.

    I guess what I'm trying to say here is that some of "all of the above" will affect some people, but not all, so the take away is, try it all. Try it dry, try it with ice, try it with very warm water and do what works for you.
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  21. djonkoman

    djonkoman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,608
    could be, but I seem to remember it was something else. but, it was a long time ago that I read it, and it also could've been it actually was alveoli but I didn't mentally connect it to what it was(since I'm dutch, I've always known them as 'longblaasjes' wich would translate best to lung sacks, and only relatively recent, last year or so, I learned the alternative name alveoli)

    I've also tried hot water once, and I also found it to be very smooth(I tried it when I was sick and had a sore throat), but the big negative I found was that the excessive condensation hindered my view of the vapor iin the bong, and so it was hard to notice if I was still getting a hit or if it was done. (the extra smoothness also played a role in that)
    lwien likes this.
  22. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,098
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    Yeah, that's the one downside. Kinda gotta judge by feel and being that it is soo fucking smooth, it's really easy to take a HUGE hit............more than you really wanted to take lol.
  23. Egzoset

    Egzoset Vaporist v2.0

    Messages:
    2,270
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    That's not what i've experienced recently. I had an excellent view, on the contrary, in addition i was controlling the amount of moisture which was being added to my cannabic vapour. I found it made a difference but i'm only 1 person while there's a multitude of physionomies...

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