the different high of concentrates vs flowers

so I just recently posted a great session I had with the mighty. Vaping bud gives me a very blurry, warm body high where all my stress and pain subside. When I vape concentrates, my high makes memore energetic and focused, fearless as well.

What is your experience with concentrates vs flowers? How does it affect you? High temp vaping vs low temp vaping?

I think it has more to do with the strain of concentrate, just like bud. I've only had two types of wax, and while one is very sativa-like, the other is more indica-like.

stickstones said:

I think it has more to do with the strain of concentrate, just like bud. I've only had two types of wax, and while one is very sativa-like, the other is more indica-like.

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Thanks sticks for throwing up a reply on this thread. Unlike others, I find myself using concentrates in the morning instead of my flowers. It seems most ppl like to start off with a functional high, like PPN with his Herbalaire, using less quantity of flowers at lower temps.

With the higher THC of concentrates, I would have expected the concentrates to give me more sedation, zone out, couch-lock feeling. Instead, I use my omicron lite and concentrates to start off my day. Use the minivap and mighty for more sedation. I am a huge fan of indicas and mostly choose og kush, for both flowers and concentrates.

Has anyone experienced a more energetic high with concentrate use?

My yellow wax gives me the best head buzz I've had in years...intense and long lasting but not debilitating in the least. At first I thought it might be that way with all concentrates since it was my first dab hit ever, but the browner stuff I got later is sleepier. Although it is still more heady than some flowers I have. Are you thinking this might be the norm for concentrates? I would have a hard time believing that just because it is so popular and not everyone wants that effect, but I don't have the experience to know.

mixchu69 said:

With the higher THC of concentrates, I would have expected the concentrates to give me more sedation, zone out, couch-lock feeling.

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Actually, I believe the reverse is true. A high CBD ratio would give you that couch-like feeling whereas a high THC ratio would be more of a head high, eh?

Hey sticks, I'm a newbie to vaporizing and using concentrates. I always combusted before, but fell in love with vaporizing once I got the pax. Now I'm reading FC threads everyday. I am not sure what the norm is for concentrates, but I always thought of it as flowers on steroids.


Lwien
Hmmm. Never thought about the cbd part of the equation.

To be honest they both get me to where I want to be. Sure there are differences but I think some ppl overrate the difference between for example sativa & indica. People always say concentrate is energetic but it still knocks me out. However I still do like to mix it up and do notice a subtle difference. Where as one method I would build a tolerance too I feel fresh mixing it up.

lwien said:

Actually, I believe the reverse is true. A high CBD ratio would give you that couch-like feeling whereas a high THC ratio would be more of a head high, eh?

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I believe that you meant CBN (Cannabinol), the primary product of THC degradation which is slightly psychoactive, rather than CBD (Cannabidiol), which is not psychoactive?

stickstones said:

I think it has more to do with the strain of concentrate, just like bud. I've only had two types of wax, and while one is very sativa-like, the other is more indica-like.

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There is a stark difference in the highs between flowers and concentrates. Let me go through a few as well as the reasons.

First of all - your traditional solvent based extractions (butane/iso/ethanol/etc) will not remove water soluble terps. You are losing this aspect of the flavour as well as high. Remember, many other terpenoids apart from cannabinoids (yes, cannabinoids are a kind of terpenoid!) have psychoactive effects and contribute to the entourage effect. This is one reason you will get a different high.

Furthermore, we seem to think that we don't subject plant material to at least partial thermal decomposition when we vape buds. I'm not saying this is necessarily causing carcinogenic results, but I am saying the plant material is likely to be giving extra couchlock. Note that extracts with a lot of plant material in them also tend to give a more couchlock type high. I have myself dabbed a reasonable sized dab of just plant wax I pulled out of one of my oils once. The wax was white, barely tasted of the original herb and gave a slight somnolence that I recognized very quickly! This somnolence is not there with my plant material free oils.

Of course, a full melt dry sift extraction will be the tastiest, fullest high with the least possible filler. It will bring along the water soluble terps that solvent extractions miss. If I could get this in enough quantity, this is predominately what I would medicate with. Sadly, buds of the quality that lends to this kind of extraction are not at all easy to find in this part of the world!

stickstones said:

My yellow wax gives me the best head buzz I've had in years...intense and long lasting but not debilitating in the least. At first I thought it might be that way with all concentrates since it was my first dab hit ever, but the browner stuff I got later is sleepier. Although it is still more heady than some flowers I have. Are you thinking this might be the norm for concentrates? I would have a hard time believing that just because it is so popular and not everyone wants that effect, but I don't have the experience to know.

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You are experiencing what I explained above my friend. Browner oil typically means more plant material than light, clear oil, but less plant material than raw buds of course, giving a high that falls somewhere in-between.

Don't buy the bullshit about 'CBD is dark, THC is light'. It isn't true. Look at Omega Labs' pics of clear yellow-ish orange CBD nectar for a prima facie refutation of this frequently trotted out view. I believe this is a sales ploy used by extract artists to sell their plantier oils

lwien said:

Actually, I believe the reverse is true. A high CBD ratio would give you that couch-like feeling whereas a high THC ratio would be more of a head high, eh?

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Let's abandon the CBD/THC false dichotomy. We know there are plenty of other cannabinoids/terps so why are these comparisons all brought back down to THC vs CBD???

Besides, pure CBD is not known to cause sleepiness. In fact, early research with animal subjects suggests that it promotes wakefulness (see for example: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0014579306008155)! My OL CBD oil causes sleepiness due to large amounts of plant material coz I got the cheaper oil made from trim and extracted with ethanol. I have confirmed this with the man who extracted himself.

mixchu69 said:

Hey sticks, I'm a newbie to vaporizing and using concentrates. I always combusted before, but fell in love with vaporizing once I got the pax. Now I'm reading FC threads everyday. I am not sure what the norm is for concentrates, but I always thought of it as flowers on steroids.

Lwien
Hmmm. Never thought about the cbd part of the equation.

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Not quite, the most accurate way I can describe solvent based extracts is to say that you take most of the active chemicals out of the raw buds and leave as much of the filler (plant wax, solid plant particulates, chlorophyll and any other non terp chemicals) as possible. However, as I pointed out above, these concentrates do also lose some of their water soluble terps in the extraction process (the solvents we use just won't pick up this stuff effectively!).

The difference between a pristine, plant material free extract and the raw buds is similar to the difference between raw Willow leaves and Aspirin. The former is the crude, natural source of the active (aspirin) with plenty of inactive content (plant material and more), the latter is an extract of the desired active which is processed to the desired purity.

@herbivore21 dropping knowledge like I like it...thank you! Are all your posts like that? Where's the follow button...

With my tolerance the diff isnt much, one is stronger, but i get faded either way... the "stimulating" sativa or oil doesnt make you tweak, it gets you faded. Unless it doesnt have thc, then its really just sleepy.

stickstones said:

@herbivore21 dropping knowledge like I like it...thank you! Are all your posts like that? Where's the follow button...

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lol cheers brother! My other posts probably have varying levels of written expression, depending on how vaked I was at the time of writing lol

By the way, here is what a pristine, plant material free, dewaxed, sub-micron filtered (medical quality filtration to remove bacteria, mold and even those tiny mold spores) absolute shatter looks like. The strain is blue cheese

That's pretty! Does the more pure stuff allow you to use less of it, as in is it more efficient?

Holy shit @herbivore21 That looks amazing! I have never dabbed but dammit I feel like I know more about how it's made and how to consume it than my one friend who dabs quite often I love the verbose knowledge on this site!

stickstones said:

That's pretty! Does the more pure stuff allow you to use less of it, as in is it more efficient?

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Absolutely! And very well deduced

Ratchett: Bro you gotta get on board the shatter train! It is a new experience, like trying weed for the first time again!

If you don't mind me asking (because sometimes the questions never cease with me!), is it as simple as ranking the different types of concentrate for potency, or is there too much overlap. In other words, a 'regs<mids<chronic' classification for concentrates like 'wax<shatter<etc.'

Is there a generally accepted ranking like that to share? Or should I just ask you to point me to the right concentrates thread already here on fc? I'm a relative noob with concentrates but am coming around quickly and I'm sure all my questions have been answered on here somewhere...

stickstones said:

If you don't mind me asking (because sometimes the questions never cease with me!), is it as simple as ranking the different types of concentrate for potency, or is there too much overlap. In other words, a 'regs<mids<chronic' classification for concentrates like 'wax<shatter<etc.'

Is there a generally accepted ranking like that to share? Or should I just ask you to point me to the right concentrates thread already here on fc? I'm a relative noob with concentrates but am coming around quickly and I'm sure all my questions have been answered on here somewhere...

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There is no "dankest" form. I have donated in the $90 range where there were numerous forms such as shatter, nectar, & pollen. Some of these even look the same lol. But I have read and heard ppl say shatter is the best, and in many cases I would agree. There are times when I find a different form that is just as good or better then the top shatters. You can't go wrong with a clear shatter... though it may shatter into shards when you break it off with your dabber lol.

stickstones said:

If you don't mind me asking (because sometimes the questions never cease with me!), is it as simple as ranking the different types of concentrate for potency, or is there too much overlap. In other words, a 'regs<mids<chronic' classification for concentrates like 'wax<shatter<etc.'

Is there a generally accepted ranking like that to share? Or should I just ask you to point me to the right concentrates thread already here on fc? I'm a relative noob with concentrates but am coming around quickly and I'm sure all my questions have been answered on here somewhere...

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I won't presume to know what is generally accepted, but man - we're stoners. The consensus of the stoned (or even sober) masses does not equal accurate information That's why I'm only interested in the scientific, empirical information on the topic.

I will say that if you have got only actives in your conventional solvent based concentrate, it is gonna be either absolute shatter, or if decarboxilated, some point in between this and a runny but clear nectar/oil consistency. Expect various hues between almost clear pale yellow, amber, red and variations on these colours (depends on strain/terp profile and other factors - ie: ethanol seems to give a red tinge to concentrates).

IME, wax necessarily contains plant waxes. That is the only way I know of to get an actual wax consistency (even stuff with residual solvents is not so much wax as it is some kind of grease type consistency which is a bastard to get off your oil slicks). I have dabbed pure plant wax as was mentioned earlier. It is hot, harsh and wax concentrates always make me feel congested as fuck (however dabbing any inactives will likely contribute to congestion). IMO you don't want that in your dabs if you can avoid it. Still, it isn't like poison like gluten or something [/South Park].

Clear but Green/black/super dark brown concentrates generally are a visit from our friend chlorophyll, but I cannot rule out some other possibilities contributing dark brown hues as well.

Anything runny and slick that sticks to oil slicks and seems to just spread across the oil slick as you try to scoop it on a dabber is almost definitely full of residual solvent.

Opaque concentrates contain a lot more inactives which can include but are not necessarily limited to; solid particulate plant material, high plant wax content and high levels of chlorophyll IME. Avoid this stuff if you are interested in the highest purity of medicine possible like me.

Hope these pointers help!


Of course, a very high purity (high up in the 90th percentile of glandular resin heads) dry sift extract will look like dry, white-ish to amber coloured crystals.

herbivore21 said:

I won't presume to know what is generally accepted, but man - we're stoners. The consensus of the stoned (or even sober) masses does not equal accurate information That's why I'm only interested in the scientific, empirical information on the topic.

I will say that if you have got only actives in your conventional solvent based concentrate, it is gonna be either absolute shatter, or if decarboxilated, some point in between this and a runny but clear nectar/oil consistency. Expect various hues between almost clear pale yellow, amber, red and variations on these colours (depends on strain/terp profile and other factors - ie: ethanol seems to give a red tinge to concentrates).

IME, wax necessarily contains plant waxes. That is the only way I know of to get an actual wax consistency (even stuff with residual solvents is not so much wax as it is some kind of grease type consistency which is a bastard to get off your oil slicks). I have dabbed pure plant wax as was mentioned earlier. It is hot, harsh and wax concentrates always make me feel congested as fuck (however dabbing any inactives will likely contribute to congestion). IMO you don't want that in your dabs if you can avoid it. Still, it isn't like poison like gluten or something [/South Park].

Clear but Green/black/super dark brown concentrates generally are a visit from our friend chlorophyll, but I cannot rule out some other possibilities contributing dark brown hues as well.

Anything runny and slick that sticks to oil slicks and seems to just spread across the oil slick as you try to scoop it on a dabber is almost definitely full of residual solvent.

Hope these pointers help!

Non see-through concentrates contain a lot more inactives which can include but are not necessarily limited to; solid particulate plant material, high plant wax content and high levels of chlorophyll IME.

Of course, a very high purity (high up in the 90th percentile of glandular resin heads) dry sift extract will look like dry, white-ish to amber coloured crystals.

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I'd agree wax is waxy like plant waxes. And dark is usually lower quality except in the cases I've seen of super high quality concetrates made from purple flower... purple concentrate pretty much lol.

LiLRUBYDOLL said:

I'd agree wax is waxy like plant waxes. And dark is usually lower quality except in the cases I've seen of super high quality concetrates made from purple flower... purple concentrate pretty much lol.

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I will say that the concentrates I have made from purple flowers have never come out purple! However, I have not by any means used all such strains so cannot rule out this possibility! I'd love to see purple oil!!!! That sounds pretty!

herbivore21 said:

I will say that the concentrates I have made from purple flowers have never come out purple! However, I have not by any means used all such strains so cannot rule out this possibility! I'd love to see purple oil!!!! That sounds pretty!

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Check out rumpelstiltskin extracts!! Their instagram page should have some pics of their purple concentrates.

Wow. Learned a lot about concentrates. Herbivore21, I am going to have to pick your brain when I buy concentrates. I go in the dispensary and just believe what the budtender states. I always wonder if he is selling me items that are not selling. I got another tip from a FC member that concentrates at dispensaries are overpriced and can find delivery services that offer great quality (of course still need to show ID and doctors rec)

I personally like the taste of shatters, but harder to work with (sticky, so I like to pop it in the freezer for 10 mins). But I bet there are waxes, crumble, butter that is just as good. These i find much easier to use when I am in the car or out. I use a glass dabber, pick up a piece, and pulse it into my kiss carts.

I found one at a dispensary that was like honey, but lighter in color. They said nobleman made them famous. I love the taste but impossible to work with. Can someone give me tips on maximizing honey like concentrates without it getting messy. I think I waste a 1/4 of the product because it is hard to use.

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My yellow wax gives me the best head buzz I've had in years...intense and long lasting but not debilitating in the least. At first I thought it might be that way with all concentrates since it was my first dab hit ever, but the browner stuff I got later is sleepier. Although it is still more heady than some flowers I have. Are you thinking this might be the norm for concentrates? I would have a hard time believing that just because it is so popular and not everyone wants that effect, but I don't have the experience to know.


Yea, I do not have the experience that other FC members have. When I go into the concentrate threads, a lot of the vocabulary is foreign to me. Maybe it's time to read "for newbs section."

mixchu69 said:

Wow. Learned a lot about concentrates. Herbivore21, I am going to have to pick your brain when I buy concentrates. I go in the dispensary and just believe what the budtender states. I always wonder if he is selling me items that are not selling. I got another tip from a FC member that concentrates at dispensaries are overpriced and can find delivery services that offer great quality (of course still need to show ID and doctors rec)

I personally like the taste of shatters, but harder to work with (sticky, so I like to pop it in the freezer for 10 mins). But I bet there are waxes, crumble, butter that is just as good. These i find much easier to use when I am in the car or out. I use a glass dabber, pick up a piece, and pulse it into my kiss carts.

I found one at a dispensary that was like honey, but lighter in color. They said nobleman made them famous. I love the taste but impossible to work with. Can someone give me tips on maximizing honey like concentrates without it getting messy. I think I waste a 1/4 of the product because it is hard to use.

↑
My yellow wax gives me the best head buzz I've had in years...intense and long lasting but not debilitating in the least. At first I thought it might be that way with all concentrates since it was my first dab hit ever, but the browner stuff I got later is sleepier. Although it is still more heady than some flowers I have. Are you thinking this might be the norm for concentrates? I would have a hard time believing that just because it is so popular and not everyone wants that effect, but I don't have the experience to know.


Yea, I do not have the experience that other FC members have. When I go into the concentrate threads, a lot of the vocabulary is foreign to me. Maybe it's time to read "for newbs section."

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Ay bro shatter shouldn't be all sticky unless the weather is hot, maybe slightly. And for dabbers I would suggest getting a highly educated titanium flat head dabber so you can really pick them up. Also I would strongly suggest the oil slick containers because they concentrate won't stick to anything but your dabber (it works with all concentrates).

I also worry that sometimes they may try to sell stuff that isn't selling but I always get the most expensive and look at it, so if I get something bad it would be my fault. As for concentrates don't go with anything with a lot of bubbles... indication is hasn't been purged or whatever too well. But yeah if I had a sheet or parchment paper or plastic container and a glass dabber with a big head (idk if yours does), then I would probably be wasting product.

Shatter that isn't too hard is the easiest too work with. Kind of break a piece off with my dabber and roll it up into a ball.

And as for delivery services being cheaper... I wouldn't say so! Just do your research on weedmaps. Delivery to me sucks you got to look all shady outside, wait, and you don't getta see what your getting because they aren't going to bring a lot for you to look at. I get just as good prices at dispensary.

LiLRUBYDOLL said:

Ay bro shatter shouldn't be all sticky unless the weather is hot, maybe slightly. And for dabbers I would suggest getting a highly educated titanium flat head dabber so you can really pick them up. Also I would strongly suggest the oil slick containers because they concentrate won't stick to anything but your dabber (it works with all concentrates).

I also worry that sometimes they may try to sell stuff that isn't selling but I always get the most expensive and look at it, so if I get something bad it would be my fault. As for concentrates don't go with anything with a lot of bubbles... indication is hasn't been purged or whatever too well. But yeah if I had a sheet or parchment paper or plastic container and a glass dabber with a big head (idk if yours does), then I would probably be wasting product.

Shatter that isn't too hard is the easiest too work with. Kind of break a piece off with my dabber and roll it up into a ball.

And as for delivery services being cheaper... I wouldn't say so! Just do your research on weedmaps. Delivery to me sucks you got to look all shady outside, wait, and you don't getta see what your getting because they aren't going to bring a lot for you to look at. I get just as good prices at dispensary.

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I do got a big glass dabber. The reason why I chose glass was that I can pulse it into my kiss ceramic. I heard if you use ti,and make contact with the ti coils, it could cause the cart to fail. With the glass, I rub it over the dark ceramic while pulsing.

I definitely need to buy a different dabber. The one I use is the carb cap for my daisy Quartz nail. I do use oil slick, used to use no goo, but have heard some negative things about the material in no goo. Have you tried glass concentrate storage. I like the idea that I can heat the glass to get those last few drops.

Anybody have a link to a small dabber to work with honey like material?

herbivore21 said:

Absolutely! And very well deduced

Ratchett: Bro you gotta get on board the shatter train! It is a new experience, like trying weed for the first time again!

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To hell with the train! I'm buying a plane ticket!