Discontinued VRIPtech Heating Wand

Right on Ataxian a mentor of mine was always fond of saying: "pursue an ordered strategy." Echos in my head day and night...

Vapventure sorry about the hassle only thing I can think of is a bad connection of one of the leads to the board or the element itself which includes both the heating and the thermocouple --- if you're sure its not a bad outlet that just needs to be reset or something than hit us up at info@vriptech.com if you haven't and I'll just have the shop send you a brand new heater since it was a new unit and we'll take that one back, fix it and put it in the demo fleet. Sorry about the hassle again! We test them and if they glow it's usually all good, but every once in awhile you'll get one that slips through and then just doesn't last hence the warranty. Good to hear you got the tech dialed right away though without problem --- I know it sucks waiting that much more now we'll get you dialed back in ASAP though!

Thanks mate that's really nice of you. Great to see you guys care so much about your customers.

I've ordered it from verdampftnochmal and already contacted them about it, but since it's already evening in Germany they probably won't read the mail until tomorrow.

Strange this is, i got it heating up again now, so the electronics didn't fail completely, but there must be a loose connection somewhere.
The red LED is supposed to light constantly when the VHW is heating up, right?
Because mine is sometimes flickering or going off even when the device is not fully heated up.
Especially when i turn the dial the red LED goes on and off, independent of the temperature of the device. For example i turn it down a bit, the LED goes off. I turn it further down and it blinks again.

The majority of my pulls where very rewarding so far and the experience is great. When i got this all worked out i'm gonna post some pictures and write some more about it.

And thanks a lot for your quick response!

vapventure said:

The red LED is supposed to light constantly when the VHW is heating up, right?
Because mine is sometimes flickering or going off even when the device is not fully heated up.
Especially when i turn the dial the red LED goes on and off, independent of the temperature of the device. For example i turn it down a bit, the LED goes off. I turn it further down and it blinks again.

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Normal light operation is as follows(IME): When the light is active, heating is occurring, when the light is off, cooling is occurring. Flickering means the VRIP is maintaining it's temperature. Now, with the peculiar behavior of your VRIP, these standards may not apply.

Forgot you where in EU Vapventure we'll get you sorted regardless for sure. Maybe verdampftnochal can swap the heater and we'll send them a replacement. Let me know how goes with them and let them know we'll sort it either way --- we can send the heater straight to you or to them if they can get you a replacement quicker and don't mind swapping off of a complete unit assuming they still have one in stock. The strange behavior would lead me to guess that it is the thermocouple not working right for some reason which could be a bad lead connection or simply a bad thermocouple. The red light should be solid when pre-heating and then will cycle at different rates depending upon the ambient temp, pull rates and potentiometer adjustments you make. It's important that the outlet is well grounded for best temp control --- so just be sure your outlet is well grounded as that is the only other thing that could explain peculiar behavior like you've described from my experience.

shadowvape, We have a problem. As you know ive been waiting for my wand to get to me since I sent it in for a replacement heating element. It arrived today. The " electrical smart guy" apparently wasn't smart enough to know how to install the dial properly...its completely backwards ...I sent you an email with photos..

I'm honestly pretty pissed off this happened...I'm tempted to buy a whole new vaporizer now, which I don't have the money for but at this rate vrip is slow to ship and put my wand back together wrong so it's looking like a legit option. Am I going to have to send the wand back now and wait another 2 weeks? ridiculous...I know its not your fault personally shadow but still, please understand where I'm coming from.

Mod note: When possible, please avoid making back-to-back posts in a thread. Use the Edit feature located at the bottom of your posts. Posts merged.

Shabang I think we already got you sorted by email, but just in case to be clear the temp dial just pulls straight out and then can be reinserted properly aligned (it's a hex key fitting coming out of the bottom of the dial that goes into the hex key fitting of the potentiometer on the board) --- the tech was surely in a hurry and didn't position it properly aligned with the analogue temp indicator to have the widest swath of red indicating fully open and full temp it sounds like so my apologies!!! I usually just put the dial in and then turn it wide open (clockwise) and then pull it back out to just reinsert properly aligned if it wasn't already (1 in 6 chance right?). Sorry about the lag too Shabang I let the tech have it for lagging on a few repairs the last couple of weeks and then got the full story which was a sad one I promise. He's a good guy just was having some personal challenges with his day job and family last few weeks. He's been on it ever since though calling every day to check in and even just asked for more stickers to put in with the repairs when sending back out.

On a super positive note we just had some good feedback from the folks at honeycomb glass screens today and we'll have the first protos of the Vrip specific versions of their glass screens by the end of the week --- these will be the ones that can be retrofitted into the existing Vrip bowls and we'll hopefully have them available for purchase in a matter of weeks. I'll post something up here with some pics as soon as we check them. We've played with their off the shelf screens as many of our customers use already and besides loving that they are American made functional glass at it's best we love how they even out the heating relative to a stainless screen (the glass has more thermal mass) so you don't even have to stir if you pack on the looser side and you'll get even extraction all the way through. The only thing we didn't like was the sizing that tended to be a bit smaller than ideal and would often flip over when stirring if you weren't REAL CAREFUL. So with the custom sized ones we should be able to improve on the stirring consideration and still get the benefit of ALL GLASS HEATING, EXTRACTION AND VAPOR ROUTE SURFACES --- yeeeeha! Who else can make that claim legit???

Still waiting on the Vrip-specific honeycomb screens to put to the test (someone has to be the Vrip test dummy!) supposed to be here Tues now, but they have shipped!!! Last night I was playing with one of the smaller stock sized ones that sits all the way in the bottom of the bowl and got the great idea of dropping some 3mm glass beads on there so that I could get more beads in the bowl than I do if putting on top of a stainless screen located higher up on top of the o-ring groove as I usually do --- figured the extra thermal mass and extra surface area of the beads could only lead to better concentrate extractions.....ahhh yeah....it's still hitting if anyone is interested!!! Casey Jones scissor never tasted so good and it always tastes GREAT.... Insane efficiency and much easier to clean than the stainless screen when super goo-ed up I'm sure. Not sure if it's just the extra thermal mass and surface area of having more beads in there than I usually use or the extra thermal mass of the glass screen as the floor of the bowl instead of a stainless screen so you've got melting and releasing taking place at the bottom instead of soaking into (and clogging) the stainless screen, but the difference is signficant! As where (are) the effects....

Alright folks we at Vrip are sooooooooo stoked to present the two glass screen options we're going to be offering as a result of our collaboration with Blazing Blue Glass, makers of the original Honeycomb Glass Screens that many of you adapted anyway. The two options are sized for two different positions in the current bowls (a third version will be available if required when the next gen Vrip bowls go into production --- the smaller one of the two we have spec'd now might just be perfect). Check the upper screen position (larger diameter) that sits right on top of the o-ring groove for shallower packed faster extractions that you seriously don't even need to stir if you pack it loose to medium thanks to the thermal mass created by the glass screen. Check the lower screen position (smaller diameter) that sits between the o-ring groove and the orifice to the down stem for those that NEED to have absolutely HUGE inhalations to by fully satisfied and like to have a couple of stirs and re-primes/pulls in there before re-packing.

The major benefit to these custom sized glass screens for the Vrip bowls over the standard sizing versions available at many shops (in the States anyway) is that they are less likely to flip over or move around when you stir you're goods. The lower one absolutely locks in there with a little seasoning (read: Golden Goo Residue or what we affectionately refer to as GGR), while the upper one sticks OK when seasoned, but is more likely to fall out when dumping the LC --- no worries though it's about a one second deal to drop it back into position, and the fact that both are removable makes cleaning a cinch. As far as performance goes you'll notice you can either run a slightly lower temp and/or pull a tad faster at the same temp setting as the thermal mass of the glass screen quickly gathers some nice pure non-off gassing or polarity changing heat and legitimately improves the rate of extraction and the depth of the extraction without stirring. Also, as I've already posted by running some 3mm glass beads on top of either glass screens you can get various concentrates to spread out on the surface area of the glass beads and the glass screen below and...well yeah....ridiculous inhalations in terms of size and concentration (and of course FLAVOR) ensue without the same rate of clogging of the screen that was the case with stainless or titanium.




Did someone say "All Glass"? That is "All" glass right? Airflow, Heating, Extraction, and Delivery Surfaces --- All Glass! All VRIP....

Love the true, 100% all-glass path! Even if the mass of a little stainless screen is so slight (also "downstream" of the herb in the vapor-path), I'd still prefer to have 100% glass.

Questions: Approx diameter of the 7 holes in the glass-screen imaged? Are you getting much herb pass-thru with hand-grind? Any potential option(s) for differing hole diameter screens? I think I'd like to see how one with more, but smaller, holes would perform (just a guess, can't wait to try this!).

Lastly, can you speak to the adverse effects of metal on vapor? I realize it is conductive and a "heat-accumulator", which can present thermal issues. Those being both control & type (conductive, if herb is in contact with surface, and radiant both contributing to the convective, which would otherwise be so dominant to largely make the other sources negligible). It seems that some of the newer vapes (here in this forum) "feature" metal in their design, e.g. as a bowl/pod or even as an entire package (heating element, surfaces, etc.,). These metal-containing/centric designs seem to produce "big, thick, white/milk" rips, but I wouldn't want to use them around a smoke-detector (sure look like combustion via other means imho). Of course I can achieve that with all glass, like the VHW, as well... just get it too hot. Anways - the other, perhaps esoteric, consideration is if & how does the metal react with the vapor? I had read or heard somewhere there were polarity/charge issues. I can't seem to find the reference articles that piqued my curiosity atm but recall it was on a principle akin to how ionic air filters work; negative charge (ions & metal surface) attracting the + charged airborne particles. I wouldn't guess any ions are generated (but could be?) in a metal vape but are the metal surfaces themselves carrying any significant charge?

Apologies if a bit too philosophical for this late in the evening. I blame the VHW & Blackberry Lime!

Cheers,
Nebu

ataxian said:

Thanks.
I'll just face the clear side my way.

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You could remove the sticker as well.

Great questions and feedback Nebu. The holes on the larger screen are 2.5-2.75mm and the holes on the smaller screen are 2.0-2.25mm approximately. The way these screens are made is a bit of a "proprietary" mystery and I can tell you as someone who has been in the glass business for awhile that making these things to such tight tolerances is a real special skill-set. We've made various glass screen prototypes in house and have a different method and process for making ones that are, in fact, as you've postulated might be good made with smaller holes and more of them. The problem is our shop is so slammed just keeping up with Vrip and HiSi business and other product development we've prioritized getting into production (namely glass on glass VHW to VCBS interface and glass on glass VCBS on the Vrip side of the shop) that I know it will be awhile out before we can get these into production and know from the prototyping that there are going to be some serious scaling challenges. I also know from using the honeycomb screens that they work great except the sizing could be better spec'd for the Vrip bowls so after a handful of customers prodded me to do so I finally got around to touching base with the company and was stoked to confirm it's all American glass and American manufacturing --- and even more stoked to find out they where down for making some special sizes for us. We'll pay a bit more to get those special sizes relative to just going for it at one of their dealers and picking from the range of sizing, but I can tell you it's worth it to have the benefit of all glass without a screen that flips over as soon as you stir your bowl.

I use a Santa Cruz Shredder grinder and like a fairly fine hand grind --- I've noticed that you can get a little carcass slipping through not so much from the holes letting it through although with a real fine grind that could happen, but from when you dump the load carcass from the bowl and then put the screen back in. It seems that when it goes back in whatever load carcass residues along the side that didn't dump out will often get pushed below the screen and then sucked into the down stem on the next round. This can obviously be avoided by simply being extra careful to clean out the bowl real well between packing them, but I have noticed it can happen with these and this could be considered a downside for sure....not as simple as the stainless screen just sticking in there. But performance wise these things really kick ass because they represent just the perfect amount of thermal mass to even out the heat of the bowl with the heat of the convective hot air flow going through it which simply put makes for better extractions that start a little quicker and don't require as much finesse as with the stainless screens to get that dead center perfect Vrip.

There is some great research by a well known Aromatherapist named Franchome regarding polarity of essential oils and the different molecules contained thereof . He was able to determine that the polarity of present molecules defined the types of effects/benefits of a particular essential oil. The cliff notes version is that there are both positive and negative charged molecules present that in combination (think aromatic symphony) create the complex aromatic notes we all know and love. These include terpenes (mono,di, tri, sequi), alcohols, aldehydes, ketones, and oxides --- because some of them are positively charged and some are negatively charged it would only make sense that the polarity of the surfaces of at least the extraction chamber, if not the polarity of the convective airflow itself (a function of the heating element material) and the polarity of the delivery vessel is going to change the expression of the whole complex of aromatic compounds by the time the vapor gets inhaled. Besides the surfaces I believe there is a field effect as well whereas the polarity of the surfaces create a local field polarity that is different than say the ambient air flow polarity of the room.

At the end of the day the most sophisticated sensor I have access to is my own sense of taste and I know that all glass heating, vapor path and extraction chamber surfaces makes for better tasting extractions and inhalations. Zero doubt in my mind and I challenge anyone to demonstrate a vaporizer with an alumina ceramic or metal heating element or extraction chamber that is capable of extracting and delivering Vrip-like flavor. It's simply impossible even though the physical structure could be identical (sequential venturi design) because of the polarity challenge, i.e. how do we thermally extract both positive and negatively charged molecules and deliver them in the same profile as they exist in the raw herb or concentrate. I think it is fair to say that terpenes and the other flavor molecules in the herbs we're vaporizing are subject to the same laws of physics (general as well as the more esoteric) as everything else in this world. And in the caes of polarity affecting vapor extractions specifically I believe they are even more sensitive because you're not talking just molecules you're talking volatile molecules in a temporary thermally induced gas phase.

Now I might be a little more OCD than some of you all but what I like to do is pop the o-ring off of my bowl and drop it and the glass screens into a baby food bottle of five times distilled vodka at the end of the day. Then the next morning I simply grab the bowl and fish out the screens with a dental pic and then rinse in hot water before shaking them off for usage. If you are consistent in this practice you'll always have a real clean bowl and screen and the aromatics of your extractions and deliveries will be accurate.

ShadowVape said:

I use a Santa Cruz Shredder grinder and like a fairly fine hand grind our extractions and deliveries will be accurate.

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I grind with a SPACE CASE because that is what the SMOKE SHOP sold me when I first got my MM License. I use this for my BENDER attachment {PERSEI} & stems for my SOLO.
The only plug-in device is my VAPOLUTION that doesn't require grinding of the FLOWERS.

Do you think that this method of not grinding and a smaller heating path contribute to the FLAVOR profile obtain?

Of the WAND type devices being offered today I like your design the best so far

Right on Ataxian I've got a couple of the Space Case grinders too and they work great --- I really like that they offer a medical grade coating that other grinder companies do not and they simply work well. I went to the Santa Cruz Shredder because they are a local company I want to support and they are producing an excellent product that takes into consideration the manufacturing process,(i.e. machining aluminum which produces dust/shavings) and fully clean their grinders with an ultrasonic cleaning process just like the FDA requires for medical devices using machined metal surfaces . Additionally, they've got a cool kick back texture along the inside of the outer diameter that catches less groud herb than I found to be the case with the Space Case pattern. With super sticky high oil content herbs I think you're always going to have some grinds left behind that you need to shake and/or poke out, but I found the SC shredder to hold less and need less post grind clean out to get all the goods into my tray even with super sticky slightly fresh herbs. I absolutely think that not grinding and a smaller heating path (relative to what you're packing to extract from anyway) will affect the rate of extraction which, in turn, will affect the flavor profile obtained. For sure I've found that well ground herb conveys better extractions simply due to surface area considerations.

When I started developing vaporization "tools" as we refer to them at VripTech in the context of our modular system meant to adapt any waterpipe or bubbler it was way back in the mid 1990's and I had been studying all kinds of alternative medicine including medical aromatherapy. It was the research and teachings of the Aromatherapy pioneers (old and new) that cemented my resolve that the flavor molecules in synergy with the "actives" where what it was all about. How else can you explain that the same party of "actives" can create such different effects --- just by having slightly different levels of each? I'm not feeling that explanation as complete and am confident it's a synergistic effect where the flavor molecules (themselves often shown to be active and medicinal) are affecting the expression of the "actives" and, vice versa. And since we know that the flavor molecules will vaporize at a lower temp than other "actives" we know that the only way to get a real "full spectrum" vapor including the flavor and the actives in the same inhalations would be to extract and deliver fast from a small sample amount (relative to the convective flow and the lung capacity anyway --- some can pack bigger and still get it all in I know) with the least amount of exposure to ambient air post extraction to minimize dilution and oxidation for greatest satisfaction and results. This is the trick IMHO to attaining the highest levels of vapor quality and satisfaction. I've seen in the industry that the bulk of the devices tend to deliver flavor before actives without as much overlap into fuller spectrum vapor as we can get with a properly used Vrip system. In other words, by the time the vapor is really thickening up with the actives the flavor is turning to burnt popcorn because the flavor molecules where already inhaled. The upside to these models could be durability and ease of use though so it's a consumer choice as to where their priorities and expectations best fit. There are exceptions of course, but then you get to the higher-end devices and you still have the flow form physcis (a straight bore extraction chamber will NOT work as good as a venturi inducing extraction chamber) and the material polarity issues and the question of just how full and accurate of a spectrum can you extract and deliver in the same inhalations. For some people a cloud of vapor inhaled and exhaled is a cloud of vapor inhaled and exhaled and they are good....thankfully for Vrip there are many qualitarian minded folks out there and for them (and for us) we'll keep pushing the vapor quality envelope anyway we can and pursue perfection in the subtleties of a ritual already known and loved by many. And we'll do it in glass.

ShadowVape said:

~snip~
At the end of the day the most sophisticated sensor I have access to is my own sense of taste and I know that all glass heating, vapor path and extraction chamber surfaces makes for better tasting extractions and inhalations.

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Yes I. Thank you kindly for the reply!

It stands to reason hot metal would have at least some effect on the zeta potential, etc.,.. Also, inhalation of metal ions is a legitimate health concern. One would needs some serious gas-chromatography/mass-spectrometry equipment to measure/verify any of this. Until then, I'm with you on the empirical analysis. One low-tech test could be to measure the "reclaim" (vapor condensate). Guessing it is directly proportional to the amount of metal. The thermal conductivity issues alone are enough to turn me off to metals, but I also always try to error on the side of caution, or purity, in this case. Nothing more inert/non-reactive than glass imho. That is why I pack all my cannabis in glass exclusively as well. My storage motto (if I had a motto, lol) being: "the only plastic that should come near your buds is a credit card!' Keep it simple & pure for the delivery tech too. The only metal that should come near your vapor should be coming out of your speakers!

I love that group's name! Animals as Leaders --- what would the world be like? One thing for sure is plants wouldn't be outlawed because the food they could be used to make would be overly nutritious for too low of a cost or the medicines they contain are overly adaptable (also, for too low of a cost)! Nice beats Nebu the messages are in the flow (think phase) transitions!

100% agreed the empirical research isn't as simple or straight forward as it first may seem (and it definitely has not been conducted to the extent it could/should be for a myriad of reasons mostly political) which is why we ultimately have to go with our guts by way of our own senses and common sense (I'll resist making another comment here that could be misinterpreted). We are after all creating a hybrid gas phase that consists of liquids and waxes and volatile oils in a "vaporized" or "volatilized" state that can be inhaled and is both more friendly to the tracheo-bronchial tree and more concentrated than smoke from combustion. So Fuck Combustion...do we have Fuck Combustion T-shirts yet?

Over the years I've overheard a fair amount of terminology based dispute and have always tried to steer clear and just focus on the obvious vapor experience and process variables everyone can measure: i.e. did it turn white and take a few to dissipate or have a bluish tone and dissipate rather quickly, did it thicken up and still feel smooth or was it harsh, did you taste flavor first and then less flavor when it started to thicken up or was there flavor in the thick stuff, what did the load carcass (ABV) look like --- was it still greenish, evenly yellowed, lightly browned, or dark browned (or ugghhhh black), was it even or hot spotted, etc??? These simple considerations convey a great deal about the quality of both the material being loaded and/or the device's capabilities and often the user's ritualistic tendencies. With what we know about the substances we're looking to inhale, the ultimate form we want to inhale them in, and the materials considerations in mind it simply comes down to there are no better materials than glass, quartz, and a few select ceramics (non-alumina/metallic) to "error on the side of caution." Out of these three materials glass is the most cost effective and IMHO looks and feels the nicest too.

I like to be able to see the wisps of vapor lifting in the bowl as I preheat tellimg me it's good to start pulling and the vapor milking blue as I prime the tube so I can time my exhale/pause and get to the largest full density primary pulls --- glass is absolutely the best for this out of the safest material options. So combined with the fact that it's the most cost effective (at least at the type of production levels most vaporizer companies work at) it's the no brainer (again IMHO I understand some people and glass just don't get along). And with glass there is a long standing position of purity, class and sophistication in the culture that the Vrip model aims to preserve rather than move on from....there are so many insanely cool funtional glass options out there with interesting and unique individuals and/or groups behind them that are really putting alot of energy into the inhalation experience ---- YOUR INHALATION EXPERIENCE ---- virtually all of which are compatible with the Vrip model by way of standardized fittings. I just can't see how there could be a better way to complement them than with what we have now and coming soon in the Vrip "tool" box much of which has been spurred from the community feedback and prodding so please keep the great ideas and the blue vapors flowing....hell even if you like the white vapors keep them flowing too especially if they help the great ideas flow just do your throat a favor and suck on a little raw honey and lemon before bed heh?

ShadowVape said:

100% agreed the empirical research isn't as simple or straight forward as it first may seem (and it definitely has not been conducted to the extent it could/should be for a myriad of reasons mostly political) which is why we ultimately have to go with our guts by way of our own senses and common sense (I'll resist making another comment here that could be misinterpreted). We are after all creating a hybrid gas phase that consists of liquids and waxes and volatile oils in a "vaporized" or "volatilized" state that can be inhaled and is both more friendly to the tracheo-bronchial tree and more concentrated than smoke from combustion. So Fuck Combustion...do we have Fuck Combustion T-shirts yet?

I just can't see how there could be a better way to complement them than with what we have now and coming soon in the Vrip "tool" box much of which has been spurred from the community feedback and prodding so please keep the great ideas and the blue vapors flowing....hell even if you like the white vapors keep them flowing too especially if they help the great ideas flow just do your throat a favor and suck on a little raw honey and lemon before bed heh?

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Why not have some FLAVOR with the Effect?

Wasn't it Mary Poppins who sang, "A Tea Spoon of Sugar makes the Medicine go down"?

i would sport a fuck combustion shirt .. hell yeah. i think i'm gonna get one soon.. or make a ghetto iron on one. haha. that is a cool idea. never crossed my mind.

Buildozer said:

i would sport a fuck combustion shirt .. hell yeah. i think i'm gonna get one soon.. or make a ghetto iron on one. haha. that is a cool idea. never crossed my mind.

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Hell yeah! I've been thinking of it for a bit now too. I still get my Marlboro coupons and give them to friends who still smoke. They had a design your pocket ashtray that I use for abv at poker games as well as a design your own stainless steel pint cup, which I store a bit of vape related equipment. Anyways, I created ones with Mountains and FC on the front, pretty sweet free items just b/c they think I use their crappy product. Great conversation starter b/c a lot of people have asked what the FC stands for so depending on who asks they are either informed about the greatest website ever or told it's for Fried Chicken...

What up FC.com when are the T-shirts coming!!!

Heads up to everyone the first production run of Vrip-specific glass screens where just completed and just shipped. We haven't gotten them priced and on the website yet, but will do so ASAP after receiving them (probably Fri after the holiday). We have been thoroughly testing the prototypes though and are in love with them! A bonafied performance improvement building upon what already worked extremely well. We have also figured out that we can stack a couple of the larger ones partially off-setting the holes and have a really nice concentrate plate just below the top of the bowl! Stay posted we'll get the link up soon.

ShadowVape said:

Heads up to everyone the first production run of Vrip-specific glass screens where just completed and just shipped.

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This is long awaited news!

All Glass Path plus a Glass Screen!

TASTY!

Hey Mark come comment in the Vapor Path Resistance thread!

Hi, this vape is not really easy to find in Europe, I have a Cloud, how is the vapor quality and quantity compare to VXC?the glass screen is it already available?
A true all glass airpath seems to me really good

PPN said:

Hi, this vape is not really easy to find in Europe, I have a Cloud, how is the vapor quality and quantity compare to VXC?the glass screen is it already available?
A true all glass airpath seems to me really good

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http://vriptech.mivamerchant.net/Me...e_Code=VR&Product_Code=VHWE&Category_Code=VHW

Can you order it on line?
They come with a EURO Plug.
Perfect for water path.

PPN said:

Hi, this vape is not really easy to find in Europe, I have a Cloud, how is the vapor quality and quantity compare to VXC?the glass screen is it already available?
A true all glass airpath seems to me really good

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not true. they have a distributor in spain and one in germany (verdampfnochmal.de)!