Not sure how you expect to collect data that isn't anecdotal from people on a forum about whether or not heavy use contributes to failure or not.
Would not every bit of information we get in that regard be anecdotal?
Abso-freakin'-lutely excellent advice @Roth !!!Pop the extra fine screen that goes into the bottom of the bowl into your cooling unit. Will keep your CU much cleaner.
Abso-freakin'-lutely excellent advice @Roth !!!
My Mighty thanks you for it!
With vaporizers, cleanliness is better than godliness!
Thanks to ALL for your advice about getting or not getting a Crafty as backup for my Mighty.
Just now placed my Ariza Air order ... I'll be watching my mailbox in a few days!
I'm anxious to make the Air vs Mighty comparison, and will be certain to post my observations.
Me TOO!I have the air and love it but was wondering how the Mighty compares to it. Cant wait to your follow up
Hey guys - asked a similar question on the Pax 2 thread so apologies for anyone who's read both - I'm trying to narrow down deciding between buying the Crafty and the Pax 2... It will be the only vape I own (at least for now) although I've had a MFLB, SSV and Pax 1 in the past.
If you could only have one vape to use which would you choose out of those two? For me, it would be mostly used at home, but also out and about sometimes. Fairly regular user (once daily at least).
The thing is I'm very keen on taste and efficiency (which I've read the Crafty is better for) but also on reliability and battery (which it seems the Pax 2 is much better for). Every time I think I've decided which to get, I change my mind again!
Really need to buy either one soon though as I've been vape-less for a year now and am really tired of combusting... Any help would be much appreciated!
The difference is Frandemarco has some sort of agenda against S&B. All he does is trash them and the Crafty, and make hyperbolic statements.
Reliability issues are fair to bring up, but that's not exactly what Fran's doing.
I'd suspect a large portion of the issues arising are from long sessions and back to back bowls causing the Crafty to overheat.
That's an awful lot of typing for somebody that is neither opinionated nor biased!You know, this thread is really starting to bum me out with respect to how some people discuss the reliability issue
@Roth, In the one post, you're saying "reliability issues are fair to bring up." In another, you're happy to once again repeat the myth that a $300+ product fails repeatedly because of abuse (and also cite other forum members to show your position has support), saying:
Those of us talking about this issue are not insane people who buy $300 products to treat them like garbage and break them. Those of us who spent a lot of money have *every right* as consumers to get frustrated at Storz & Bickel. This does not make us "out to trash them." I absolutely will warn *anyone* off of buying a Crafty until I have one that actually works reliably, as advertised, for at least 6 months. I will not tell anyone to enter into this gamble, and then suggest that they pay even MORE money to get off this merry-go-round of warranty nonsense so they can get the Mighty, because it's apparently the device they "should have bought," according to Monday Morning Quarterbacks of FC.
I have had three Craftys in 6 months. Not a one has made it beyond 45 hours of use (yet -- the third is on hour 5). When it works? It's phenomenal. But can I rely on it? Nope. I have to spend more money on more vapes, so I can rely on them when it fails. If someone needs to look at reliability issues from people who actually own the device, just look at the rest of the thread. Maybe do a content analysis of all the thread posts. Plug it into a statistical model if you like. Your socks will likely be knocked way far off.
I'm pretty sure everyone would come back with conclusions that:
1. One of the most common topics on the forum is failure/reliability. This is a no-brainer, regardless of what a new user says.
2. If we need harder evidence and better testimony than frandemarco's heresay that the Crafty has reliability issues? Feel free to dig into a ton of my posts in this thread, including discussions of declining heat-up times, intermittent functionality loss, etc. I've had 3 Craftys since *June.* We haven't made it through 6 months of device ownership, and there are a number of other people like me with similar experiences. I've also documented poor customer services experiences with S & B that have thankfully gotten better, but have been utterly ridiculous at times.
3. While SOME users say they had back to back sessions, MANY (including me) did not use the device in the capacity that @Roth and lots of "I'm a Crafty OG user with a 2.04 firmware, and this problem just does not exist" posters suggest (though its notable that over the 250+ pages of the forum, these characters have stopped existing as much....because the device fails! ) But seriously This "oh, its because you used it wrong" stuff is akin to telling iPhone users "Oh, you have no reception because you're holding it wrong." Let's please come off this. No one was satisfied with the answer then that a $600 consumer device needed to be held in a special way to be used as advertised... so why is it that claims in this thread about reliability routinely get dismissed as user error or product abuse? Is it because our community thinks that vaping reliably means making a $1000 investment in multiple devices? Sig lines full of vapes are real interesting - but I want to spend money on something that works reliably, rather than 12 devices to brag about.
I dunno. Maybe I am just venting today, because this forum is amazingly useful, and full of great tips and help. When I think of how patently screwed up most interaction of forums and the Internet is today, it's disappointing. FC is like the one forum I participate in at this point where the interactions are actually meaningful and respectful... so I don't get why some folks in this thread seem happy to just *negate* the perspective of those who have repeatedly illustrated problems with reliability, despite all the obvious evidence to the contrary.
I dunno, maybe those of us who keep making these posts aren't looking out for the well-being of the community and are just out to "trash Storz & Bickel," and maybe some of you are actually people sitting in Germany or Oakland at a Storz & Bickel computer, dismissing our claims. Or maybe I should just go back to vaping in silence, and not care if some nice folks I've met here get burned on their purchase.
(RANT OFF)
You know, this thread is really starting to bum me out with respect to how some people discuss the reliability issue
Those of us talking about this issue are not insane people who buy $300 products to treat them like garbage and break them. Those of us who spent a lot of money have *every right* as consumers to get frustrated at Storz & Bickel. This does not make us "out to trash them."
(RANT OFF)
People who own the unit and have experience with it would still fall under the category of anecdotal. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, you just said you didn't want any.In many ways you're right, of course, and I thought about that before posting. But there may be degrees here. First, referring to a friend's experience is clearly anecdotal; I'm more interested in the experiences of those who own and understand the Crafty. Second, I wonder at what point a collection of "anecdotal" stories begins to take shape as reliable evidence. We all know that the FC crowd may not always be an accurate sample of all users, but I would say that significant patterns that emerge here (such as complaints about battery life) do, at a certain point, tip over into something beyond anecdotal. That is, there are enough informed forum members that, collectively, their experiences are meaningful. Otherwise there's nothing to be learned out here!
You know, this thread is really starting to bum me out with respect to how some people discuss the reliability issue
@Roth, In the one post, you're saying "reliability issues are fair to bring up." In another, you're happy to once again repeat the myth that a $300+ product fails repeatedly because of abuse (and also cite other forum members to show your position has support), saying:
Those of us talking about this issue are not insane people who buy $300 products to treat them like garbage and break them. Those of us who spent a lot of money have *every right* as consumers to get frustrated at Storz & Bickel. This does not make us "out to trash them." I absolutely will warn *anyone* off of buying a Crafty until I have one that actually works reliably, as advertised, for at least 6 months. I will not tell anyone to enter into this gamble, and then suggest that they pay even MORE money to get off this merry-go-round of warranty nonsense so they can get the Mighty, because it's apparently the device they "should have bought," according to Monday Morning Quarterbacks of FC.
I have had three Craftys in 6 months. Not a one has made it beyond 45 hours of use (yet -- the third is on hour 5). When it works? It's phenomenal. But can I rely on it? Nope. I have to spend more money on more vapes, so I can rely on them when it fails. If someone needs to look at reliability issues from people who actually own the device, just look at the rest of the thread. Maybe do a content analysis of all the thread posts. Plug it into a statistical model if you like. Your socks will likely be knocked way far off.
I'm pretty sure everyone would come back with conclusions that:
1. One of the most common topics on the forum is failure/reliability. This is a no-brainer, regardless of what a new user says.
2. If we need harder evidence and better testimony than frandemarco's heresay that the Crafty has reliability issues? Feel free to dig into a ton of my posts in this thread, including discussions of declining heat-up times, intermittent functionality loss, etc. I've had 3 Craftys since *June.* We haven't made it through 6 months of device ownership, and there are a number of other people like me with similar experiences. I've also documented poor customer services experiences with S & B that have thankfully gotten better, but have been utterly ridiculous at times.
3. While SOME users say they had back to back sessions, MANY (including me) did not use the device in the capacity that @Roth and lots of "I'm a Crafty OG user with a 2.04 firmware, and this problem just does not exist" posters suggest (though its notable that over the 250+ pages of the forum, these characters have stopped existing as much....because the device fails! ) But seriously This "oh, its because you used it wrong" stuff is akin to telling iPhone users "Oh, you have no reception because you're holding it wrong." Let's please come off this. No one was satisfied with the answer then that a $600 consumer device needed to be held in a special way to be used as advertised... so why is it that claims in this thread about reliability routinely get dismissed as user error or product abuse? Is it because our community thinks that vaping reliably means making a $1000 investment in multiple devices? Sig lines full of vapes are real interesting - but I want to spend money on something that works reliably, rather than 12 devices to brag about.
I dunno. Maybe I am just venting today, because this forum is amazingly useful, and full of great tips and help. When I think of how patently screwed up most interaction of forums and the Internet is today, it's disappointing. FC is like the one forum I participate in at this point where the interactions are actually meaningful and respectful... so I don't get why some folks in this thread seem happy to just *negate* the perspective of those who have repeatedly illustrated problems with reliability, despite all the obvious evidence to the contrary.
I dunno, maybe those of us who keep making these posts aren't looking out for the well-being of the community and are just out to "trash Storz & Bickel," and maybe some of you are actually people sitting in Germany or Oakland at a Storz & Bickel computer, dismissing our claims. Or maybe I should just go back to vaping in silence, and not care if some nice folks I've met here get burned on their purchase.
(RANT OFF)
I don't think you'll regret starting with the pax 2, but I'm confident you'll end up with VAS and start building your vape collection. Plus it's fun switching up and rotating vapes.Seems like the Crafty may be a bit of luxury vape, and perhaps not best suited to being the only vape in the arsenal?
Having read both threads a fair bit now, I think I'm leaning towards getting the pax 2... Hopefully won't regret it!
You my friend deserve a reward. Samething ive been saying the whole time. To many users " acting like females" get uptight because of there precious crafty is not reliable period.I was starting to think these people was getting paid by them. Lol
I don't have much skin in this game since I don't own a Crafty, though I'm leaning toward getting one. I should also say that I haven't read every post in this thread, and so my response may admittedly be off base. But I am fascinated by how we structure argument, and I'd like to respond here.
First, most of what I'm seeing in this thread is thoughtful and community-oriented. Disagreement seems fine to me, and I can't see that this thread is at all like some of the mean-spirited nonsense I see in other forums. Skeletor, your post is well written and sincere, and I for one wouldn't want you to go back to vaping in silence.
But I do think you're mischaracterizing today's exchange. I asked a simple question: does heavy use contribute to problems with this unit? grokit responded by saying that back to back use may contribute to overheating, and that "solder points inside the unit may be the weakness." He did not say that people were misusing their Craftys, and in fact identified what may be seen as a design flaw. Roth then agreed that, in his opinion, back to back bowls might be causing overheating. Again, he did not even imply that owners were mistreating their Craftys. I think he was saying that, as a light user, I would not run as high a risk with overheating, battery failure, etc. Roth criticized *one poster* as being biased against S&B. But, at least in today's exchange, he hardly criticized those owners who are frustrated with their units and with the company.
I have read much but not all of this thread and haven't found any pattern of trying to silence those understandably disappointed Crafty owners who, like you, have gone through multiple units. Perhaps I'm missing it, which is very possible. (And I should say that grokit and Roth hardly need me to defend their posts--they are both senior to me out here.) But, again, I'm fascinated in the logic of argument, and today's exchange seemed civil and, to me, helpful. And, to repeat, I sincerely hope that you don't silence yourself.
Hey, thanks for the compliment, but could you not talk smack on women by suggesting that because people are uptight they are "acting like females?"
Females are fantastic, sir. I hope I act like one often.
What if FC had sub-threads specifically for troubleshooting/customer service issues? That way, those of us who are trying to share info and strategize about making sure we attain proper warranty support etc. can do so, without making a muckfest of the threads? I can appreciate that listening to some of us gripe perpetually might be frustrating, and I'm willing to do it somewhere better if there's a place for it.
Blows the Solo and Pax out of the water.
Thanks grokit and Roth--that's exactly the answer I was hoping for.
Not so fast buddy , a friend of mind used the crafty maybe a handful of times within three months before it died on him. Got another one and it didnt quite heat up like it was suppose to. IMO get an arizer more reliable no matter how much or little you use it
After you get your new toy, I'd love to hear your Mighty/Air comparison.
I'm anxious to make the Air vs Mighty comparison, and will be certain to post my observations.
I have the air and love it but was wondering how the Mighty compares to it. Cant wait to your follow up
Hey, thanks for the compliment, but could you not talk smack on women by suggesting that because people are uptight they are "acting like females?"
While I agree with your point, please do not tell other members how to post. If a post is breaking the rules, report it and do not respond. If you feel a response is absolutely necessary, use a PM; otherwizse, ignore it and move. Comments like this often lead to flames. Thanks for your cooperation.
@headdoctor, you've been around long enough to know how the forum is moderated. Therefore you should know that public commentary about thread moderation is not allowed.Was Frandemarco's insulting comment acceptable? Apparently it was. If so, then it seems entirely appropriate to me that he should be called on it, and not just in a pm.
You assume incorrectly. But don't push your luck.(I assume that I will now be censored.)