Discontinued Thermovape Cera

[OF]

People can shop for the batteries that work with Cera because this is the information they need to buy the correct batteries.

Agreed. I think I'm following what you're saying but still don't think you are paying attention to what I am? Please go re read post 3176 (top of this page):

"How do I know that these are safe to use? Or if other batteries I look at in the future will be safe?"

That is what I'm responding to. Your saying 'buy XXX' doesn't cover that, right? The emphasis above is mine, of course. Which is why I said 'the safest way....'. You're answering a question he never really asked, right?

OF

Edit: Perhaps I'm still not clear enough? I like the Amazon deal, I bought 8 (two sets) for personal stash. But IMO it doesn't make good advice for the future, which was what the OP was looking for I believe. OF

 

[Haywood]

For right now, while you can still get them, the CGR18650CH is a better choice for the Cera line than the NCR18650PD. Even if it weren't available for 1/4 the price. It has lower internal resistance (which means it doesn't get as hot in use), it uses a more stable and safer chemical composition, and over the voltage range that the Cera will function, it supplies just as much power (mAh's) as the "higher rated" NCR18650PD. Where the NCR18650PD excels is if you're powering something that works below 3.2V. In that case, you can get a little more use per charge from the NCR18650PD; not a lot, but another 10%-15%. The Cera, which doesn't use any type of electronics, doesn't do well below 3.2V.

That said, I agree with both OF and stema, even though they seem to be disagreeing with each other. If you're knowledgeable about batteries, and even slightly cost conscious, getting FOUR CGR18650CHs for $26 compared to ONE NCR18650PD for $25 is a no brainer. At the same time, if you're not sure about which battery is suitable for a given device, you can't go wrong by following the manufacturers recommendation. Either battery will work well with the Cera.

Just out of curiosity, is TET supplying an Orb protected NCR18650PD or an Orb unprotected NCR18650PD?

 

[Breathemetal]

Oh damn, a mini?
Well guess im waiting longer now to enter the TV world

 

[ShipDit]

This may sound stupid,but are Cera batteries a standard size? I'm betting battery tech. will continue to evolve very fast. I'm betting the batteries 2 years from now will be astonishing. So is Ceras battery size common enough to keep up with all that future goodness? While we're on the subject of batteries, will we be able to choose batteries based on the performance parameters we prefer? Like a battery that heats quickly but doesnt last long,or one that takes a bit longer to heat but lasts longer. Sorry for the rookie Q's, but and tech.and I have a hard time understanding each other.
Their was talk a while back about laser engraving...is that a service individuals could use? How common are companies that are equipped with the proper tools and would do one-at-a-time pieces?
Now for a long shot; I want a Cera for LL use only,and I like my vapor pretty warm,like about 10 degrees before combustion. If there are temp variations what would it take to get one of the hotter ones?

Custom tuned Ceras'. I'd cut a check tonight if only such a thing existed.

 

[aj0125]

In the end I'm sure the OP will do just fine.

I want to thank both OF and steama for all of the information. I am a complete battery novice, the only reason I went with the Amazon batteries was because many on this forum endorsed them, otherwise I would have paid 4x-ish the price from Thermovape (nothing against TET). My primary concern for the original post was, and still is: the future. Years down the line what will I buy to power Cera? AS OF said, going with the batteries the device makers sell is always a great choice. But I wanted to know what makes a battery OK to use in the Cera beside the 18650 part? Or is this too complicated of a question to explain to a novice (that would be totally understandable)? Thanks again to everyone for the great input and entertaining debates that make this forum such a joy to be a part of.

 

[SameOldTim]

This may sound stupid,but are Cera batteries a standard size? I'm betting battery tech. will continue to evolve very fast. I'm betting the batteries 2 years from now will be astonishing. So is Ceras battery size common enough to keep up with all that future goodness? While we're on the subject of batteries, will we be able to choose batteries based on the performance parameters we prefer? Like a battery that heats quickly but doesnt last long,or one that takes a bit longer to heat but lasts longer. Sorry for the rookie Q's, but and tech.and I have a hard time understanding each other.
Their was talk a while back about laser engraving...is that a service individuals could use? How common are companies that are equipped with the proper tools and would do one-at-a-time pieces?
Now for a long shot; I want a Cera for LL use only,and I like my vapor pretty warm,like about 10 degrees before combustion. If there are temp variations what would it take to get one of the hotter ones?

Custom tuned Ceras'. I'd cut a check tonight if only such a thing existed.

We chose to go with the 18650 because of its availability and the many applications its used. For instance it is the same one used in the Tesla Model S and the new Chevy Volt. Mind you there are thousands of them in each cars battery packs, but its the base Cell used. Also Most lap top battery packs use a combination of 18650's.

I dont think they are going anywhere anytime soon, just better Chemistry!

I want to thank both OF and steama for all of the information. I am a complete battery novice, the only reason I went with the Amazon batteries was because many on this forum endorsed them, otherwise I would have paid 4x-ish the price from Thermovape (nothing against TET). My primary concern for the original post was, and still is: the future. Years down the line what will I buy to power Cera? AS OF said, going with the batteries the device makers sell is always a great choice. But I wanted to know what makes a battery OK to use in the Cera beside the 18650 part? Or is this too complicated of a question to explain to a novice (that would be totally understandable)? Thanks again to everyone for the great input and entertaining debates that make this forum such a joy to be a part of.

Well there are a few Characteristics of batteries you have to first understand. The most important ones for our application are:

• Voltage
• Mah
• C Rating

The Voltage is like the size of an engine, it gives you your actual performance level, you need 3.7V for the Cera Cores. Lower Voltage will make it run cooler, a higher voltage will make it run hotter. (there are 3.2V LiFePo4's, less vapor but lots of flavor, still testing them out).
The Mah is like the fuel take, it tells you how long it will last before it drops below a functional voltage. The higher the Mah the longer your battery lasts.
The C Rating is like... Your Fuel pump! It determines how much power can actualy flow to the core. The higher the C rating the higher the power core you can use. (I believe each "C" is 1X the Mah, so a 2900Mah that can discharge at 10A has a rating of 3.4C) *please correct me if im wrong here*
Cheers,
Tim

 

[aj0125]

Well there are a few Characteristics of batteries you have to first understand. The most important ones for our application are:

• Voltage
• Mah
• C Rating

The Voltage is like the size of an engine, it gives you your actual performance level, you need 3.7V for the Cera Cores. Lower Voltage will make it run cooler, a higher voltage will make it run hotter. (there are 3.2V LiFePo4's, less vapor but lots of flavor, still testing them out).

The Mah is like the fuel take, it tells you how long it will last before it drops below a functional voltage. The higher the Mah the longer your battery lasts.
The C Rating is like... Your Fuel pump! It determines how much power can actualy flow to the core. The higher the C rating the higher the power core you can use. (I believe each "C" is 1X the Mah, so a 2900Mah that can discharge at 10A has a rating of 3.4C) *please correct me if im wrong here*
Cheers,
Tim

Tim, Thank you for the quick and to the point information. Is the C rating something that is usually listed in the specs or is it something the user usually has to do the math on? Thanks again for the info, I am looking forward to receiving my Cera soon, keep up the good work.

 

[darkrom]

Sent my cera back today. Hope to see it soon. Already missing the vapor quality from that thing.

 

[SameOldTim]

Tim, Thank you for the quick and to the point information. Is the C rating something that is usually listed in the specs or is it something the user usually has to do the math on? Thanks again for the info, I am looking forward to receiving my Cera soon, keep up the good work.

Typically they will list the C rating or they will say the "Drain Capacity" like ours says "10 Amps"

Sent my cera back today. Hope to see it soon. Already missing the vapor quality from that thing.

Yours should be in the first batch of the new welded connection!
Tim

 

[coffinoff]

Oh damn, a mini?
Well guess im waiting longer now to enter the TV world

I have a feeling the mini is going to be awesome and I thought about just waiting for that as well but now that I have a Cera, I have no regrets about getting in early. Hell, I'll probably just end up getting both. Absolute worst case, I resell whichever one I like the least.

 

[OF]

Gentle Friends,

I'm kinda stoked right now. Based on a plan hatched last night, I just got back from the local hardware store to get a slightly different spring (different store) than I used for the Fred Flintstone PA the other day. This one:
http://www.centuryspring.com/Store/item_detail.php?StockNumber=313]

The local store (True Value) carries them as "C-756" packaged in pairs for four bucks. It's a 3.5 inch fairly mild spring that fits inside Cera and will pass our old friend the AW IMR14500:



That's 6 dimes taped together to make them easier to handle and the cap from a Doob Tube (also items most have handy hopefully?). For those catching on to where this is going......yes, it works great! You might have to adjust the number of dimes to fine tune for yours. But when you assemble it more or less as shown (the hollow of the cap covers the spring on the tail cap converting it to a threaded plug) it comes tight just before the end (about 'a dime's worth to keep the measures topical). This pushes the top of the 14500 up into contact with the center pin on the oil cart, the minus end of the battery connects through the top dime and up the spring to the screw plate lighting the core without using the switch or copper strap! It's lower in capacity of course, so it won't run as long as with the 18650 but it makes lots of lovely vapor in what could otherwise be a dead Cera.....

I'd guess 10 to maybe 15 minutes of run time depending on which AW IMR you've got and your exact core. Plenty for a LL bowl or two, and LOTS and LOTS of EO use. On par with what I'm getting using a thread adapter on at TV Ultra supply using those same AW batteries.

It even gives you a 'latching switch' of sorts in the process. You turn it on and off by screwing and unscrewing the end cap.

The spring could be cut back an inch or so to make it a little easier to assemble but it only needs about 3 pounds of pressure to mate the treads so it works fine as is. IMO this (or a similar) spring is really cheap insurance if you have 14500s and Doob Tubes around.....and can scare up the sixty cents of course?

Not a permanent solution, of course, but it will keep the sessions going while you plan things out.....

OF

 

[SameOldTim]

Gentle Friends,

I'm kinda stoked right now. Based on a plan hatched last night, I just got back from the local hardware store to get a slightly different spring (different store) than I used for the Fred Flintstone PA the other day. This one:
http://www.centuryspring.com/Store/item_detail.php?StockNumber=313]

The local store (True Value) carries them as "C-756" packaged in pairs for four bucks. It's a 3.5 inch fairly mild spring that fits inside Cera and will pass our old friend the AW IMR14500:



That's 6 dimes taped together to make them easier to handle and the cap from a Doob Tube (also items most have handy hopefully?). For those catching on to where this is going......yes, it works great! You might have to adjust the number of dimes to fine tune for yours. But when you assemble it more or less as shown (the hollow of the cap covers the spring on the tail cap converting it to a threaded plug) it comes tight just before the end (about 'a dime's worth to keep the measures topical). This pushes the top of the 14500 up into contact with the center pin on the oil cart, the minus end of the battery connects through the top dime and up the spring to the screw plate lighting the core without using the switch or copper strap! It's lower in capacity of course, so it won't run as long as with the 18650 but it makes lots of lovely vapor in what could otherwise be a dead Cera.....

I'd guess 10 to maybe 15 minutes of run time depending on which AW IMR you've got and your exact core. Plenty for a LL bowl or two, and LOTS and LOTS of EO use. On par with what I'm getting using a thread adapter on at TV Ultra supply using those same AW batteries.

It even gives you a 'latching switch' of sorts in the process. You turn it on and off by screwing and unscrewing the end cap.

The spring could be cut back an inch or so to make it a little easier to assemble but it only needs about 3 pounds of pressure to mate the treads so it works fine as is. IMO this (or a similar) spring is really cheap insurance if you have 14500s and Doob Tubes around.....and can scare up the sixty cents of course?

Not a permanent solution, of course, but it will keep the sessions going while you plan things out.....

OF

This could be a great way for those questioning if their Cera is not functioning right to test if its the Strap. Very nice indeed!

The spring, i think, from the looks of it i think its a TP dispenser spring. I could be wrong, it happens

Tim

 

[Breathemetal]

So with the eo core... Lets say i load half a gram in there, heat up and take a few puffs...then dont hit it again for a day, does anything bad happen to the wax? Or am i just overly medicated right now and now thinking? Hahaha

 

[SameOldTim]

So with the eo core... Lets say i load half a gram in there, heat up and take a few puffs...then dont hit it again for a day, does anything bad happen to the wax? Or am i just overly medicated right now and now thinking? Hahaha

Nothing bad will happen to it, nothing more than if you were to leave it in a jar next to your Cera. One could argue that the heating and cooling of it could deteriorate the taste... But i don't see it and have i havn't noticed any flavor differences.

Tim

 

[ShipDit]

Wow man,that's...(insert favorite ass-kissing term here)! I knew you were doing something,but damn!
I think both Shelby and Tesla would be proud.

 

[darkrom]

Thrilled to hear mine will be one of the new welded designs worth the wait. I'll understand if it doesn't make it by 4/20 haha. Worth the upgrade.

 

[Silver420Surfer]

Happy Monday Everyone!

P.S. OF that is pretty sweet! Gets me thinking about a shorty body maybe in the future.

Me too! I'm already there waiting for you with my $$$, TCT.

 

[toros23]

I am so confused, I thought the Ti's were the ones getting the welded strap, thought there was a different fix for SS.

 

[OF]

But I wanted to know what makes a battery OK to use in the Cera beside the 18650 part? Or is this too complicated of a question to explain to a novice (that would be totally understandable)? Thanks again to everyone for the great input and entertaining debates that make this forum such a joy to be a part of.

OK, let's have a lash. What's OK and what's 'the best' are of course two different things. Usually guys want to buy the best even at a few bucks more (not four times....) if it's not a routine buy.

The rub is we want power, lots and lots of power. More than most 18650s (say like used in laptops) can deal with. That's what the 2C bit is, the industry doesn't make it easy so we can tell each other 4 or 5 Amps.....they have to put it in code. So, the first thing we need is the ability to put out that five Amps we might need without tripping a protective circuit or overheating trying. This favors the (lower capacity) different chemistry battery we're discussing since it doesn't need a protective circuit and can deliver the goods.

It doesn't end there, however, because we also want it to do so for minutes on end, meaning the battery can't self heat a lot (which also seals power from the load of course). This depends on another specification, Internal Resistance, which is almost never reveled. This is OK, they'd no doubt fib anyway? This is what TV tests for basically. So, while other batteries might be more attractive from a mAh or "C" value, the top choice has to be found by test basically. Haywood has an excellent web site that gives some insight here, but trying to make heads and tails out of it can make your head swim.

A way to get a 'leg up' on this is to follow the killer flashlight guys, they too want lots of steam. In fact the 17670 we love from T1 started life in Surefire and other flashlights.

Given a guy will only buy maybe one or two a year paying 'too much' from TV might not be a bad idea? If you've been following it, and battery tech is changing fast, in part from electric cars....seriously, you might be able to make an informed choice, but honestly I'm guided by TVs test and ratings. I bought 8 spares (even though I've got 4 all ready) based on that. They're not about to recommend anything less than the best IMO.

Best wishes, you're sure to enjoy your Cera no matter where the electrons come from....and go back to when you're done with them......

This could be a great way for those questioning if their Cera is not functioning right to test if its the Strap. Very nice indeed!

The spring, i think, from the looks of it i think its a TP dispenser spring. I could be wrong, it happens

Thanks, Tim, considering the source high praise indeed. That's exactly what 'got the juices flowing' after nobody liked my 'shunt around it on the outside' idea......take it inside! The PA use brought it together. I'm not quite sure what a "TP dispenser spring" is but if it's what I think it is....... The 'trick' is you need a spring just under 3/4 inch OD since the strap takes up some room. This one was listed as "23/32 X 3 1/2 inch" with .041 wire.....just about ideal. I like happy endings.

But if you go into a public restroom and find the TP roll on the floor and spindle parts but no spring, look for a furtive vapist.....

I love science.

OF

 

[SameOldTim]

I am so confused, I thought the Ti's were the ones getting the welded strap, thought there was a different fix for SS.

Our Current SS assembly procedure is good to go, the Ti is where we were forced to look for another method. And now since the Ti method is working well we will just be welding everything in the future. That way its one method for all variants. Makes Life easier in production

Tim

 

[odogg]

I've had my cera eo for about a month and wow, she is a beauty. Can't wait for cera mini so it'll be more pocket friendly.. I wonder what battery cera mini might use??

 

[toros23]

Our Current SS assembly procedure is good to go, the Ti is where we were forced to look for another method. And now since the Ti method is working well we will just be welding everything in the future. That way its one method for all variants. Makes Life easier in production

Tim

Hey Tim - Can I wait and have mine welded? I think my SS is supposed to be coming back today but would rather wait for the new goodness if that is a possibility.

 

[OF]

Hey Tim - Can I wait and have mine welded? I think my SS is supposed to be coming back today but would rather wait for the new goodness if that is a possibility.

I'm not Tim, but I don't intend to have my SS unit (an original Beta unit, rebuilt a few times already) reworked as long as it's doing well (which most are as I understand it). Done right the soldering should be just as secure as welding on SS models (perhaps even more so). You don't find a lot of welded connections in your Iphone....but lots and lots of soldering. The Material Science is well worked out here, it's Ti that's the wild card. What is an issue is the extra assembly and test time needed. Basically each end of the strap has to be tinned as well as the spots they're going to connect to, everything has to be carefully aligned, flux added and soldered together (two places) adding fill solder as needed. Then the connections are tested for integrity since the soldering is a 'hand operation'. Welding is a 'stack it up, stick it in, push the button' deal.....once you sort the details out. Welding SS units would make them cheaper and easier to make, but I'm not sure more reliable in the end. Time will tell, of course.

As long as Cera is making that lovely vapor, it's my friend and I'm keeping it right here thank you very much. And I can get 'while you wait' service......

OF

 

[toros23]

I'm not Tim, but I don't intend to have my SS unit (an original Beta unit, rebuilt a few times already) reworked as long as it's doing well (which most are as I understand it).Done right the soldering should be just as secure as welding on SS models (perhaps even more so). You don't find a lot of welded connections in your Iphone....but lots and lots of soldering. The Material Science is well worked out here, it's Ti that's the wild card. What is an issue is the extra assembly and test time needed. Basically each end of the strap has to be tinned as well as the spots they're going to connect to, everything has to be carefully aligned, flux added and soldered together (two places) adding fill solder as needed. Then the connections are tested for integrity since the soldering is a 'hand operation'. Welding is a 'stack it up, stick it in, push the button' deal.....once you sort the details out. Welding SS units would make them cheaper and easier to make, but I'm not sure more reliable in the end. Time will tell, of course.

As long as Cera is making that lovely vapor, it's my friend and I'm keeping it right here thank you very much. And I can get 'while you wait' service......

OF

I agree that only time will tell, probably a good idea to follow your suggestion and not to be proactive here. Not so sure about the iPhone/Cera solder comparison, an iPhone doesn't get anywhere near as hot as a Cera with LL cart. Maybe I missed the point, which has been known to happen more times than I'd like to admit..

 

[OF]

I agree that only time will tell, probably a good idea to follow your suggestion and not to be proactive here. Not so sure about the iPhone/Cera solder comparison, an iPhone doesn't get anywhere near as hot as a Cera with LL cart. Maybe I missed the point, which has been known to happen more times than I'd like to admit..

No big deal. The point was soft soldering the materials involved is known reliable. In a fun way it all has to do with grains in the metals and the interfaces between them. Solder and weld connections happen at grain boundaries. In an even more fun way, molten solder can actually have improved electrical performance in some cases, useful if you're not also counting on it for mechanical properties (like holding stuff together).

OTOH, attaching stuff to Ti is far from routine.

As long as TV stays in business, I ain't scared.

OF