Discontinued Zion vaporizer

[flotntoke]

And what a rant it was.

I appreciate that you maintain a sense of humor along with your frustration. That's a good quality to have.

As usual, constructive criticism posted in a respectful way is always welcome. Going forward let's please aim to keep this thread more civil than some others have gotten during frustrating setbacks. As tough as it can be it's better than devolving into constant fighting.

Will do. Apologize to FC for taking it as far as I have. I know I'm right at the line - if not over it - humor or not. Glad I edited back much of the venom in drafts of all above before hitting Post Reply.

Going to plan B. Ranting for myself in a draft somewhere and not putting so much in here.

Sometimes frustration can be one wicked mofo! Thanks for understanding.

 

[Cl4ud3]

Will do. Apologize to FC for taking it as far as I have. I know I'm right at the line - if not over it - humor or not. Glad I edited back much of the venom in drafts of all above before hitting Post Reply.

Going to plan B. Ranting for myself in a draft somewhere and not putting so much in here.

Sometimes frustration can be one wicked mofo! Thanks for understanding.

I think a lot of the problem here are people jumping to conclusions or reading more into whats been written. I feel bad for those waiting since '15 but following on IG I've seen loads of Zion progress the last few months. I will wait for mine as it will fit a spot for me and it will be nice to have one, especially with how rare they are. I know some units have gone out recently at least so it's better than evoke right ?

I just couldn't get the great results from the MVT that I can from the Mi, I think its the 14mm and the slightly less power but heh they are both good units.

 

[flotntoke]

I think a lot of the problem here are people jumping to conclusions or reading more into whats been written. I feel bad for those waiting since '15 but following on IG I've seen loads of Zion progress the last few months. I will wait for mine as it will fit a spot for me and it will be nice to have one, especially with how rare they are. I know some units have gone out recently at least so it's better than evoke right ?

I just couldn't get the great results from the MVT that I can from the Mi, I think its the 14mm and the slightly less power but heh they are both good units.

Eh, maybe. Wouldn't say I'm jumping to conclusions (or are others here) as much as taking a good bit to put worries at bay only to find cause for more worry with every update as things get pushed back, and deadlines from previous updates pass with no new ones mentioned.

FWIW, I just came to the conclusion to stay onboard and not request my refund after reading the latest blog post (week ago?). This took a good bit of pondering, and a few discussions with others here and friends IRL. Within a day or so (hours?), the latest "2017 Plan" was posted on the RBT website. If I had seen that before I came to my conclusion to stay in, my decision may have been different. Timing is, what timing is, and nothing to be done about that by RBT or me. But, certainly adds a whole new level of frustration to hem and haw that much to come to a conclusion, only to be hit in the face with further "updates" that make me feel like maybe I made the wrong decision. Not expecting anyone else to really get this (as think I'm the longest in now without a Zion), but it sure ain't pleasant!

I've also seen loads of Zion progress on IG. This, in conjunction with the last update (recently posted "2017 Plan"), is the main source of my worries now. Maybe I'm reading more into what has been written, as you say, but I get concerned when I see things listed in that plan starting sometime in the future, when we've already seen many of the things listed in the update completed on IG. I also think those of us who have been following updates closely since we got in line a couple years ago, have a bit of a different perspective on them. For me, the more updates I see anymore, the more concern they cause because they are either the same things I've seen for a couple years (with little or no movement towards fulfilling orders), or worse. I do (or should say I would) appreciate updates of substance. Maybe just my personal take while I'm reading, but don't think we've seen much of that in these last few - and what we have seen of substance isn't really good news. All of that before we even get into how it feels to see more pictures of un-assembled components and updates - both of which take time to do. Hope you can excuse my natural knee jerk reaction to both at this stage. That being - wondering how many Zions could have been assembled in the time it took to do all of that.

Different vapes for different folks, ya know. And, nothing wrong with that. I do like my Mi's (and have a brand new, never used one from some time ago stashed away), but have been enjoying my MVT much more. Could just be that it vapes more how I like it. But honestly hard to say, because I've got that 23 month in thing with RBT here on the Zion, and that definitely harshes my buzz while hitting on the Mi. Usually not too bad when I get her going and finish that first load. But, somewhere around loading the second one I start to get that icky feeling that makes me want to hide it from myself until I at least have some idea of when this madness will come to an end. Sometimes the vape can put rough thoughts out of your mind. Hell, this is part of the reason I vape as much as I do! But sometimes, getting a few good hits in you can start the wheels upstairs a turning, and not in a good direction while I'm holding my Mi and still waiting for some sort of worthwhile info here.

 

[cybrguy]

Clearly (at least clear to me) if Zion had gotten out to the public earlier it would have owned this space. Frankly, this space didn't really even exist before Zion. But the delay in finishing Zion and getting it into more peoples hands (than the beta team) has allowed competitors and new designs to come up behind her and broaden the space into a category, and a competitive one because it checks so many boxes. That and the unfortunate personality conflicts that came along with delays led many to look elsewhere, and when elsewhere had devices, many abandoned Zion and Ryan.

I have stayed on and remain on the Zion train simply because Zion is far and away the best vape I have used, and it turned out to be pretty much exactly what was promised in those early days of this thread. It is exactly what I was looking for and asked for. And that is my beta Zion which is missing some of the features and improvements in the release version.

I have not yet tried some of Zion's competitors that have been developed since, and they may very well be able to compete, some may even have advantages, but I am very satisfied with the Zion tech and have felt little need to continue looking for that genre of device even though I continue to look at other genres.. Zion stopped my VAS for that kind of device.

I will patiently remain in queue until mine arrives. I am very confident that it eventually will, tho I wouldn't even hazard a guess as to when as none of my previous guesses have panned out very well...

While the delays have been painful and I completely understand peoples frustration, I have no reason to believe that Ryan isn't doing everything he can to get these devices in peoples hands without having to go to the poor house himself. That may make me a "fan boy" in the eyes of some, but I can live with that.

 

[stickstones]

Maybe I'm reading more into what has been written, as you say, but I get concerned when I see things listed in that plan starting sometime in the future, when we've already seen many of the things listed in the update completed on IG.

I think Zions are being built in batches, so maybe you're seeing pics of one batch, and then business plans addressing the same thing, but for a later batch?

 

[flotntoke]

I think Zions are being built in batches, so maybe you're seeing pics of one batch, and then business plans addressing the same thing, but for a later batch?

Yeah, I hear you and have been trying to keep that in consideration. But, certainly don't want to do the math on all of the pieces we've seen pictures posted of and how many completed units have been released into the wild since. My rough estimate says it doesn't add up too well like that - but truthfully don't even want to know for sure. I've got a feeling there may be more grief in that equation than I feel like adding to the current frustration. Could certainly be wrong - but would rather just go with somewhat blissful ignorance on this part for the time being.

 

[Cl4ud3]

Yeah, I hear you and have been trying to keep that in consideration. But, certainly don't want to do the math on all of the pieces we've seen pictures posted of and how many completed units have been released into the wild since. My rough estimate says it doesn't add up too well like that - but truthfully don't even want to know for sure. I've got a feeling there may be more grief in that equation than I feel like adding to the current frustration. Could certainly be wrong - but would rather just go with somewhat blissful ignorance on this part for the time being.

I've seen progress on a few batches of 10, maybe he hasn't sent them out yet and we're within his original time frame ? I'm spit balling here trying to see the positive side, but I've paid for mine and it will turn up sometime, it's money I've allocated as already spent and I don't have disposable cash.

I can't say if it is worth jumping off the train or not, it might be going slow enough now that jumping seems great but it might pick up speed at any time . . . everyone has to decide if it's worth waiting for or if you can get a similar/better unit. For me at least I don't care about the wait, these things won't be mass produced and the technology of the devices speak for themselves.

 

[Mr. Whitewall]

I wanted to wait for a bit to give a review as unbiased as possible. That explains its length as well since it a bit of a long story I'm afraid. Sorry for the massive post in advance.
Another problem is that it will sound very similar to previous reviews...But I guess that is a good thing since it will prove the point this little beast is a real work of art. Both aesthetically and functionally.

I received it 3 weeks ago along with another Mi which I had ordered for a friend. Long story (as) short (as possible) my original Milaana was lost in the mail for months, then (thank God) returned to RBT. He made up for it like I would have NEVER expected: Our Mi's were upgraded at NO cost to a BEAUTIFUL cherry V3 with green joint and a WONDERFUL spalted V3 with black joint (in replacement of the now defunct TOD project which I had also purchased 2 years ago). On top of what I had been ALREADY promised, which was of course also delivered (i.e: the almighty Bubble Stem! (Pics to come hopefully) AND another real badass heady MP on top of that, so 'cool' is an understatement here!). Due to the previous experience, and to the fact that I didn't have the original PayPal receipt any longer, as 2 years had gone by, I asked if it was possible to have 2 separate shipments, and guess what? RBT came through AGAIN by sending 2 separate boxes by Priority International so they got across to the EU in less than a week! I did have to pay 43E in taxes, but I miraculously wasn't required to go to the Customs office!

Inside the boxes were extra everything, although I previously renounced to some accesories in the (cool as fuck, btw) Mi package which my friend did actually get in full, plus another clear tube and an upgraded 2-bay Nitecore charger that I had previously purchased as well and ceded to him in exchange for the small 1-battery charger he got. There were also 2 4-battery cases and 2 double battery ones.

Regarding function, flavor is nothing short of amazing. You can really tell there's been a few pre-burnoffs done (as with all of the Zis). It is just herb and very neutral hot air, the signature is VERY nice. First hits really bring up a fresh minty taste in my herbs that is just delicious.
It never really tastes like burnt popcorn either! Even if the ABV is completely dark.

Vapor density is there from the second-third hit (depending on tamp,etc) sometimes even first, and it grabs you by the nuts. Still very flavorful, load looks olive green if that.
Fourth hit, body is warm, that little heater is pumping those 40-50W without a hitch.
There is also a very nice woody smell, once its warm, coming from the inside of the drilled holes for stem and stir pick. You can notice only by using the short stem though, at least in my case, but this isn't a bad thing at all, just the smell from nice untreated wood. Although new units are getting a fully smooth sanding finish plus 3-coat waxing apparently (that alone would make it worth the extra wait imo ).
Turn knob up almost to 80%, cash it in 3 more hits, pushing the button for one second or two, then inhaling shortly for 2more seconds. Load ends up very even.
Signature is very strong, even though vapor is pretty smooth. It grows on you by the day, after a week I took increasing affection to the little thing, no wonder beta testers actuallly named theirs!

Need to keep on playing with screeen orientation and grind.
Lots of fun in sight even though I'm not really a fan of stirring; I only have another vape that requires stirring and that is the Nano, I'm pretty pleased with the performance of both regarding extraction and vapor sig so that counters the need to stir. It is also related to breath intensity, screen orientation and cleanliness as other members have explained in ealrier posts. I haven't quite nailed it yet but I'm getting closer. I guess I'll do as with the Nano, get different stems for an assortment of each 'mode'. I also mark each position so I can return to them later, only done 2 so far, but strangely enough they follow one after the other, meaning I may only need 3 settings: hot, hotter and the rest EDIT: now that I've had more time to play with it, I'd say it has 11 positions, just like the Nano! I found out just by marking my favorite temp, then playing above and below that. Surprisingly, it fits! If you start from the lowest vapor temp (3 o'clock)... I also found it needs less stirring if you do deeper inhalations (but not too fast) at 60-80% power on the dial.

I find myself microdosing a lot with it as well! Even though its not really in my habits. Not because I don't like it, but because I couldn't conceive such small loads for my needs! Until the Zion that is; I started microdosing for its unique flavor signature, but the effects are very noticeable and pleasant, even with so little. I take two hits on 3 o'clock for the most AMAZING taste, bump it to 6 for even MORE amazing taste for another 2-3 hits, if I press a bit longer on the 3rd hit I get tons of vapor, and suddenly worry about combustion...to see the load have a dark green color...
I bump it even more for 3 more hits at 9 and the its all cashed. Even color of herb. Load is approximately the size of the screen plus 1mm, grind is medium fine and slightly 'pinky tamped'.

Aesthetically, this thing is SEXY. I have rarely seen such attention to detail and good craftmanship, was expecting it to be like a Magic Flight quality (hey, no offense there it's a very nice wood and a good finish, but this is on another level I'd say. The space is exactly the same between the door and the body, or the body and the cap is about 1/4 of a mm. This is very precise and, honestly is pretty rare for any item these days.
Weight feels right, not too heavy not too light, have had a busted wrist for a few days and it doesn't bother me to hold it. Been worse to type this massive slab It's also very stable, so pet-friendly?
The wood itself is very nice too! Smells nice and is pretty sturdy. Smooth finish no rough edges, I can't stop passing my fingers over its curves!
The contrast between the different parts is very nice as well.

Battery life is pretty impressive. I always think they're dead, and still rate at 3.9V.

Only downside? there was some trouble with the magnet coming off but Ryan was able to spot it during QC and fix it, another detail right there of the care he's taken here, it did delay it a bit, but again, this is artisan work.
Only thing I'd add is a tiny o-ring so the stir tool doesn't fall off every time you load the stem onto the vape.
EDIT: another magnet has come off. Will fix it asap, no biggie. I was thinking about it the other day and realised how expensive those things are! Apparently neodymium is a strategic resource (it all comes from China and there was a massive scare some years ago because they, just as the Russians did with Titanium earlier, menaced to close the exports because of commercial and political disagreements and it sent the world on another economical dowturn) decent magnets are hard to come by... If I recall, Ryan sourced only the very best materials, and yes, the very very best magnets too, therefore they tend to work too well sometimes...

In the end, I not only made a fantastic purchase (or 3) as I was expecting all along, but also Ryan really did something selfless and for that I really am grateful and very happy to have gained a new friend along the way as well, which is wort a million vapes (good ones or really, really good ones, in this case).

Yes of course I did think of cancelling my order in anger at times, there were a few ups and downs but it just didn't feel right; I was part of this for better or for worse. In my case, I even fear he did lose more than he gained overall, but customer came first; I even asked twice if I had to pay anything extra for the upgrade, but received no reply or extra PayPal invoices, I just got a full upgrade for my troubles in the end ...
If I'm correct, he's PAYING priority express (international) shipping for all its early preoders at least. Not to mention that there's no classes yet, only V1 (and 'waxed' ''V1.1s'', ok) so we're all getting the full production model, not a cheaper pre-order version.

It was never about money (I was free to cancel anytime) I was just very hopeful in the(se) project(s) and that they'd bring something new and fresh to the vape world, but also from an artisan point of view: I really believe in what the small guys have to bring to it and prefer to back them with my money over more established companies. Not hating on anybody, I still am open to buy any good product out there, but pound for pound smaller guys seem a better choice. Not only Ryan, also many others which have contributed to make this market as exciting as it can be, with such ingenuity, innovation and great ideas all across the world.

TLDR: Do yourself a favor & go pester RBT to make some more Zis! You really need one of those. You won't regret it, NO MATTER what, been there: after all, having my MI lost by postal services made me miss the Mi train, since Zi production had to take over, and was green with jealousy watching all your fancy Mis for months on end until my unit could be sent back!

These are works of art IMO, just got to be a little patient, mine is #60 (...Or not! Don't wanna be taking sides, feel free to cancel and grab your pitchfork at any moment. Just tying to give you longing Zionites some hope.

 

[TeeJay1952]

RBT Technology
Them that have one understand!

( I feel like one of Thomas Edison's neighbors)

 

[KeroZen]

I get tons of vapor, and suddenly worry about combustion...to see the load have a dark green color...

This = Zion in a nutshell for me.

Good review man! Glad you love it too.

 

[delloy]

@Mr. Whitewall Can you let us know when was your preorder date? Any other members receiving Zions please also post your order date. It will give me and hopefully others more of an indication than any of RBTs updates as to when it might be happening, as all his info just seems pointless reading, it explains nothing and does nothing to alleviate peoples frustrations in fact it probably makes them worse.

Much appreciated

 

[elykpeace]

Everytime I see a new post on this thread I sing this song in my head

 

[vapen00b]

@Mr. Whitewall Can you let us know when was your preorder date? Any other members receiving Zions please also post your order date. It will give me and hopefully others more of an indication than any of RBTs updates as to when it might be happening, as all his info just seems pointless reading, it explains nothing and does nothing to alleviate peoples frustrations in fact it probably makes them worse.

Much appreciated

Not that I think it would get the Zi's out any sooner nor give peace of mind for the waiting crowd, but here'd be the place to go:
http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/zion-shipping.19521/page-17


@Mr. Whitewall Thanks for the write up.

Still hoping many of us will stay in line to experience for themselves... It's not easy and totally understand the frustration, been there done that -1 month. But guys, if you don't need that money right now or being a medical with urgent need for a vaporizer to be bought with that money, try to use something different until then and please try to relax. It won't make your whole life easier nor more pleasant, if you're being disbalanced by the waiting for a thing like a vaporizer.
If that patience is not manageable, it sure is healthier to cancel and get a refund than to vent multiple times and spread that bad energy all over this place. Embrace life in the meantime and live to the fullest (minus a Zion. But it will come )


Looking forward to hearing further reports, the sooner, the better. But we're a patient bunch I guess..?

 

[flotntoke]

@Mr. Whitewall Can you let us know when was your preorder date? Any other members receiving Zions please also post your order date. It will give me and hopefully others more of an indication than any of RBTs updates as to when it might be happening, as all his info just seems pointless reading, it explains nothing and does nothing to alleviate peoples frustrations in fact it probably makes them worse.

Much appreciated

Would be great if this was relevant, but Zions aren't going out in order of pre-orders received. This is the biggest reason why my frustration is at this level over the past week - and the cause of the bitterness in my posts over the past couple pages. I wasn't exactly happy, but not too fired up about the situation until it became apparent that this was the case. Even with that, I wasn't griping too much (tho questioning a bit more in early May) in hopes I'd be receiving mine this month. Whatever.... Another month/6 weeks at that point wasn't too big of a deal - in spite of RBT's poor responses about the situation. Latest updates changing the June '17/Q2 17 completion and sending of the next batch back to "who the fuck knows when" are the straw that broke the camel's back for me. All my posts are out there (same as anyone else), and until last Friday they were all supportive, upbeat and encouraging others to stop bitching and wait - same as many have posed to me recently.

I'll let others answer on their own as to when they placed orders if they like, but it's not too hard to figure out many of them by searching this thread. FWIW, my order was placed on 7/16/15. I already know that at least a couple that were sent in last batch (about a month ago) weren't ordered until August '15. Again, maybe I'm just becoming a mean old prick, but after waiting so long, I think this would rile damned near anyone. Most people probably a lot more than it did me until it was announced the wait was going to be more than until this month - probably putting me outside a full 2 years since I ordered and paid. Not the fault of any who've received their Zion, and no grief from me towards them.

@Mr. Whitewall - Thanks for the great review! Love the encouragement of how well your experience has been. Think it gives us all hope - and definitely does for me. One thing you may want to note is that according to other reports here, your #60 doesn't necessarily mean your Zion was the 60th produced. From a few different posts, I believe the numbers are only a way for RBT to keep track of which components go to which Zions. And who knows? It may correspond to Zions started and include those that were never finished or scrapped for whatever reason.

@vapen00b Thanks for the words of encouragement. Got plenty of other vapes to keep me busy - and even made it through a few sessions with Mi last night to keep hopes up on a Zion soon. Very enjoyable in spite of the frustration. As I hope is apparent in my reply to delloy above, patience is only part of the problem for me (and hopefully not others). To be passed over and have a promised delivery date of right about now moved back to no idea of when is a whole different type of frustration.

 

[KeroZen]

I think Ryan should switch to half part magnets, half part ferromagnetic steel. Attraction would be much lowered.

They are going to get loose anyways, the proof being: even giant e-cig manufacturers with huge factories plus entire teams of engineers and designers, can't get it right (magnets on my Joyetech evic VTC mini had to be reglued several times already)

As for the "wrong resistance" part of the update... well... I can't even understand how such trivial errors could happen in the first place. I mean, if it's the one I'm thinking about, you got to get it spot on precise, meaning you have to measure several out of your parts tape and pick the closest match (those components are worth cents at most, he could afford to pick the best out of 100 and bin the rest if needed)

How is it possible that completely out of specs and anemic units were shipped? Everything should be calibrated, measured, double-checked... before being assembled and after! It's beyond me... but I bugged Ryan so much in the past that I'm no longer in the loop, being too much of a PITA for him.

As for the out of order shipping, I think the Soup Nazi reads how many times you complained and for every time you did, you were put back right at the end of the queue!

 

[delloy]

@flotntoke Are they not going out in order of date for pre orders? If not that really is a bit of a pisstake! How can Ryan even think it is right to hand out Zions to people further down the queue when me and others have now been waiting nigh on 2 years. This might be the final straw that breaks the camels back! Utterly ridiculous way to treat your earliest supporters!

Apologies if this is too strong, but it will be my last comment on this thread. Its too frustrating

 

[flotntoke]

.... As for the out of order shipping, I think the Soup Nazi reads how many times you complained and for every time you did, you were put back right at the end of the queue!

Enjoyed the rest of your post too, but only felt the need to reply to this last bit. I'd expect nothing less (or is that "more", here?) from Ryan. But, this is what irks me damned near as much as anything! I don't think I complained once until I was passed over - and almost all of that until the last 5 days was through email with Ryan AFTER units ordered after mine were shipped. Quite the contrary, actually. Other than my last 9 or 10 posts in this thread (of 45 or so total), I've been one of the ones who was carrying the RBT flag and defending him and this F'd up mess as much as anyone. I was even more than fair and understanding - still defending him after I was passed over, with promise of me being in next batch that was scheduled to be shipping by end of this month at latest. My reward?
Yeah... I know, .

But, even the fucking Soup Nazi had a reason - as small/ridiculous as it may have been - for "No soup for you!" Eh, maybe Ryan just doesn't like my screen name, avatar or email service. Whatever..... I think it was just luck of the draw. I'm not the only one around here that's familiar with how well he handles such things and I figure he's only going to be hitting it at 90% at best (and yes, that's VERY fucking optimistic). Somebody has to fall into the 10% that aren't handled well, and seems like that's where I landed. Probably just karma for how harsh I've been to gripers while defending him here in the past. Gotta love that irony, huh?

No doubts I'm losing favor with him now. I'm familiar with the whiny "stop picking on me" bit. But at this point, I feel I've earned the right to say what I have here (interest payment?), and hope some of this may get him working on Zions so he doesn't have to endure anymore. Doubtful, I know, but WTF else can I do than go out and trash him everywhere - putting his business, and my Zion (and everyone elses), in further jeopardy than he already has on his own?

@flotntoke Are they not going out in order of date for pre orders? If not that really is a bit of a pisstake! How can Ryan even think it is right to hand out Zions to people further down the queue when me and others have now been waiting nigh on 2 years. And he's hoping people will buy into his latest... haha are they truly mad! I for sure will never again cross his palm with silver regardless of what it is or how well it SUPPOSEDLY functions. This might be the final straw that breaks the camels back! Utterly ridiculous way to treat your earliest supporters! Wrong just plain wrong! @RastaBuddhaTao

NO, they are not going out in the order or pre-orders!!!! At least mine hasn't. Why the hell do you think I'm so FUCKING PISSED OFF all of the sudden? Hung in and defended him and this bullshit for 20 some months. Even continued to defend him AFTER I was passed over with promise I'd have mine by end of this month.
Now? Sorry, but this sums up my sentiments pretty well -

And really, in spite of my posts here for the past few days, I'm not even quite on the warpath. Still trying to be as understanding as I can while keeping my venting, rants and grievances here. Some of it is impatience as my actual 2 year date is probably coming a lot sooner than my Zion. But, that is by far the lesser part of my frustration here.

 

[Cl4ud3]

Do you know units are going out in the wrong order ? or is this speculation that's now being taken as fact and causing all the negativity ? The person who posted the review said he had ordered 2 years ago. So your all before that or are there others who have Zions now who were not original pre-orders ?

If so then I can fully understand why your pissed and it would be best to give Ryan a phone call before escalating this more here.

 

[flotntoke]

Do you know units are going out in the wrong order ? or is this speculation that's now being taken as fact and causing all the negativity ? The person who posted the review said he had ordered 2 years ago. So your all before that or are there others who have Zions now who were not original pre-orders ?

If so then I can fully understand why your pissed and it would be best to give Ryan a phone call before escalating this more here.

DUDE... I've said it in damned near every post for 5 days now. I haven't called, but as you may know if you've tried, communications with Ryan are often worthless and frustrating - with not much more than him blaming you for shit he has fucked up, and calling you out for trashing him all over the internet while you were one of his biggest defenders. YMMV, but this is the gist of my interaction with him.

Thanks for understanding why I'm pissed, but you probably don't even fully get that if you're suggesting I call Ryan and discuss.

YES, I know shipping is out of order without a doubt. If you use the amazing FC Search function (at the top right of this page, same as every other on FC) you can search by member name in just this thread. Many of us (me included) post when we purchase. You can see this post from me here, on 7/16/15. Don't want to call anyone out who ordered after me as I've got no beef or grief with them, but not hard to do the same for anyone who has recently said they received their Zi. Think at last count I was up to 4 or 5 who ordered after me, at least 1 (and I think 2 or more) almost a month after I ordered (going by their "just made my order" post in this thread). Could be more. I started checking after the first couple people posted here about receiving Zi's and have avoided going back and adding it up in an effort to not bring myself even more frustration.

I also discussed this with Ryan in several emails soon after last batch went out. He admitted openly that orders placed after mine went out in that batch. His response, in short, was too fucking bad. There aren't anymore. I think part of this is related to him not even having me on his fucking list and not sending me the initial email asking to go complete the form on the RBT page. We had already cleared that up (with him blaming the issue on PayPal) a week or two before he even sent confirmation emails to those he did ship Zi's to in that batch. He then put the blame on me for not replying to the email he sent asking people to complete the form, even though I never received that email. I had read about it here soon after it going out, and took 2 emails from me to even get a response from him about this. But, it was all cleared up then - or so I was told. If you go back and look at my posts about this here, you'll see I mentioned it and was cautious and concerned, but not calling him out. After I started seeing others reporting receiving their Zi's, I went and checked as I describe above. This is when he admitted those went out ahead of mine - which he blamed on me, saying I never completed the online form (which I had), then saying I chose the wrong glass color on the online form (how he came up with that at the same time telling me I hadn't filled out the form, I'll never know!). There is a bit more to all of this, but think this is sufficient to get a feel for the interaction involved. I'm not here to give a statement on just how fucked up this is, only trying to let people know what Ryan can be like when he fucks up and you dare ask about it.

Of note, I DID NOT come on here and trash him then. I even sniped a few people in RBT's favor who came on bitching after all of this, with the promise from him - and in the current updates - that I'd have my Zion by the end of this month. Not pretty, and left me concerned, but whatever. That's a much better place than I'd been for the previous 22 months. Then, as also mentioned many times in my posts above, latest updates left us with absolutely no idea of when the next Zion will ship. And, truth be told, I'm not even sure mine would be the first after all of the bullshit - but long before I started dumping shit here last Friday.

I mean... c'mon man! I can be a prick (am sure most who have read my last several posts here can see that clearly), but why the fuck would anyone think I was on-board and defending Ryan for literally almost 2 years - and then just flip like this into being the biggest PITA griper on the thread? I got fucked - probably not intentionally, because I know from past 2 years the dude can fuck some shit up. In email - not here - when I discussed it with Ryan, all blame was put on me (or PayPal or whatever) and none of the fault was his. Sorry? YEAH RIGHT, from my interaction he seems to have more trouble with the word than the Fonz! "Your fault, TFB, don't have anymore, yours in next batch, stop picking on me" and a few other similar things were all I received - along with a promise that my ZI would be in the next batch - June/Q217.

TLDR..... Yes... Zions have definitely been shipped out of pre-order order - at least mine has. Ryan blamed this on me several times, in several ways, but promised mine would be going out in next batch - this month. I wasn't happy, but didn't get into it much here until this latest update that nixed anything going out this month - and gives no indication when the next Zion may be on its way out the door.

 

[Other Side]

DUDE... I've said it in damned near every post for 5 days now. I haven't called, but as you may know if you've tried, communications with Ryan are often worthless and frustrating - with not much more than him blaming you for shit he has fucked up, and calling you out for trashing him all over the internet while you were one of his biggest defenders. YMMV, but this is the gist of my interaction with him.

Thanks for understanding why I'm pissed, but you probably don't even fully get that if you're suggesting I call Ryan and discuss.

YES, I know shipping is out of order without a doubt. If you use the amazing FC Search function (at the top right of this page, same as every other on FC) you can search by member name in just this thread. Many of us (me included) post when we purchase. You can see this post from me here, on 7/16/15. Don't want to call anyone out who ordered after me as I've got no beef or grief with them, but not hard to do the same for anyone who has recently said they received their Zi. Think at last count I was up to 4 or 5 who ordered after me, at least 1 (and I think 2 or more) almost a month after I ordered (going by their "just made my order" post in this thread). Could be more. I started checking after the first couple people posted here about receiving Zi's and have avoided going back and adding it up in an effort to not bring myself even more frustration.

I also discussed this with Ryan in several emails soon after last batch went out. He admitted openly that orders placed after mine went out in that batch. His response, in short, was too fucking bad. There aren't anymore. I think part of this is related to him not even having me on his fucking list and not sending me the initial email asking to go complete the form on the RBT page. We had already cleared that up (with him blaming the issue on PayPal) a week or two before he even sent confirmation emails to those he did ship Zi's to in that batch. He then put the blame on me for not replying to the email he sent asking people to complete the form, even though I never received that email. I had read about it here soon after it going out, and took 2 emails from me to even get a response from him about this. But, it was all cleared up then - or so I was told. If you go back and look at my posts about this here, you'll see I mentioned it and was cautious and concerned, but not calling him out. After I started seeing others reporting receiving their Zi's, I went and checked as I describe above. This is when he admitted those went out ahead of mine - which he blamed on me, saying I never completed the online form (which I had), then saying I chose the wrong glass color on the online form (how he came up with that at the same time telling me I hadn't filled out the form, I'll never know!). There is a bit more to all of this, but think this is sufficient to get a feel for the interaction involved. I'm not here to give a statement on just how fucked up this is, only trying to let people know what Ryan can be like when he fucks up and you dare ask about it.

Of note, I DID NOT come on here and trash him then. I even sniped a few people in RBT's favor who came on bitching after all of this, with the promise from him - and in the current updates - that I'd have my Zion by the end of this month. Not pretty, and left me concerned, but whatever. That's a much better place than I'd been for the previous 22 months. Then, as also mentioned many times in my posts above, latest updates left us with absolutely no idea of when the next Zion will ship. And, truth be told, I'm not even sure mine would be the first after all of the bullshit - but long before I started dumping shit here last Friday.

I mean... c'mon man! I can be a prick (am sure most who have read my last several posts here can see that clearly), but why the fuck would anyone think I was on-board and defending Ryan for literally almost 2 years - and then just flip like this into being the biggest PITA griper on the thread? I got fucked - probably not intentionally, because I know from past 2 years the dude can fuck some shit up. In email - not here - when I discussed it with Ryan, all blame was put on me (or PayPal or whatever) and none of the fault was his. Sorry? YEAH RIGHT, from my interaction he seems to have more trouble with the word than the Fonz! "Your fault, TFB, don't have anymore, yours in next batch, stop picking on me" and a few other similar things were all I received - along with a promise that my ZI would be in the next batch - June/Q217.

TLDR..... Yes... Zions have definitely been shipped out of pre-order order - at least mine has. Ryan blamed this on me several times, in several ways, but promised mine would be going out in next batch - this month. I wasn't happy, but didn't get into it much here until this latest update that nixed anything going out this month - and gives no indication when the next Zion may be on its way out the door.

Please PM me your information. I will contact Ryan and talk to him about what happened and to rectify this situation on the next batch (since you seem not to want to). This way you can move on and we can stop with the novel rants.
I have said it before and I'll say it again. Ryan has to own a lot of this and people here will never I know everything wrapped up in this but at this point it's getting ridiculous to write post after post about the same thing. If you don't want some help to resolve this I know a refund is an option.

 

[Cl4ud3]

DUDE... I've said it in damned near every post for 5 days now. I haven't called, but as you may know if you've tried, communications with Ryan are often worthless and frustrating - with not much more than him blaming you for shit he has fucked up, and calling you out for trashing him all over the internet while you were one of his biggest defenders. YMMV, but this is the gist of my interaction with him.

Thanks for understanding why I'm pissed, but you probably don't even fully get that if you're suggesting I call Ryan and discuss.

YES, I know shipping is out of order without a doubt. If you use the amazing FC Search function (at the top right of this page, same as every other on FC) you can search by member name in just this thread. Many of us (me included) post when we purchase. You can see this post from me here, on 7/16/15. Don't want to call anyone out who ordered after me as I've got no beef or grief with them, but not hard to do the same for anyone who has recently said they received their Zi. Think at last count I was up to 4 or 5 who ordered after me, at least 1 (and I think 2 or more) almost a month after I ordered (going by their "just made my order" post in this thread). Could be more. I started checking after the first couple people posted here about receiving Zi's and have avoided going back and adding it up in an effort to not bring myself even more frustration.

I also discussed this with Ryan in several emails soon after last batch went out. He admitted openly that orders placed after mine went out in that batch. His response, in short, was too fucking bad. There aren't anymore. I think part of this is related to him not even having me on his fucking list and not sending me the initial email asking to go complete the form on the RBT page. We had already cleared that up (with him blaming the issue on PayPal) a week or two before he even sent confirmation emails to those he did ship Zi's to in that batch. He then put the blame on me for not replying to the email he sent asking people to complete the form, even though I never received that email. I had read about it here soon after it going out, and took 2 emails from me to even get a response from him about this. But, it was all cleared up then - or so I was told. If you go back and look at my posts about this here, you'll see I mentioned it and was cautious and concerned, but not calling him out. After I started seeing others reporting receiving their Zi's, I went and checked as I describe above. This is when he admitted those went out ahead of mine - which he blamed on me, saying I never completed the online form (which I had), then saying I chose the wrong glass color on the online form (how he came up with that at the same time telling me I hadn't filled out the form, I'll never know!). There is a bit more to all of this, but think this is sufficient to get a feel for the interaction involved. I'm not here to give a statement on just how fucked up this is, only trying to let people know what Ryan can be like when he fucks up and you dare ask about it.

Of note, I DID NOT come on here and trash him then. I even sniped a few people in RBT's favor who came on bitching after all of this, with the promise from him - and in the current updates - that I'd have my Zion by the end of this month. Not pretty, and left me concerned, but whatever. That's a much better place than I'd been for the previous 22 months. Then, as also mentioned many times in my posts above, latest updates left us with absolutely no idea of when the next Zion will ship. And, truth be told, I'm not even sure mine would be the first after all of the bullshit - but long before I started dumping shit here last Friday.

I mean... c'mon man! I can be a prick (am sure most who have read my last several posts here can see that clearly), but why the fuck would anyone think I was on-board and defending Ryan for literally almost 2 years - and then just flip like this into being the biggest PITA griper on the thread? I got fucked - probably not intentionally, because I know from past 2 years the dude can fuck some shit up. In email - not here - when I discussed it with Ryan, all blame was put on me (or PayPal or whatever) and none of the fault was his. Sorry? YEAH RIGHT, from my interaction he seems to have more trouble with the word than the Fonz! "Your fault, TFB, don't have anymore, yours in next batch, stop picking on me" and a few other similar things were all I received - along with a promise that my ZI would be in the next batch - June/Q217.

TLDR..... Yes... Zions have definitely been shipped out of pre-order order - at least mine has. Ryan blamed this on me several times, in several ways, but promised mine would be going out in next batch - this month. I wasn't happy, but didn't get into it much here until this latest update that nixed anything going out this month - and gives no indication when the next Zion may be on its way out the door.

I can understand why your pissed off, you paid for something and with all the shit you still don't have it where others have. I never got an email either and filled the form out after seeing it in the thread here, that's obviously one of the issues with why your not holding a Zi now. Not a perfect system by any means this whole process but nothing we can say will change that.

I have had interaction with Ryan and I know how things can go wrong on his end, I was able to just leave things with him and it worked out. You have had contact with him and your in the next batch so I guess you at least know your getting one in the next few months.

All you can do now is try and chill, you know how good the products are even with the negativity you feel, it's not that far down the tracks and with 2 years waiting it would be a shame to fall off at the last stage.

 

[flotntoke]

Please PM me your information. I will contact Ryan and talk to him about what happened and to rectify this situation on the next batch (since you seem not to want to). This way you can move on and we can stop with the novel rants.
I have said it before and I'll say it again. Ryan has to own a lot of this and people here will never I know everything wrapped up in this but at this point it's getting ridiculous to write post after post about the same thing. If you don't want some help to resolve this I know a refund is an option.

Will do. And, thanks for the assistance.

FWIW, I believe I'm already in the next batch. Sure as hell hope so with all I've reported above (and more I haven't even included). My concern is when that batch is shipping, as the last promised date - this month - has now been moved to ???? again.

Sorry for the novel rants, but since the other day think they have been in reply to questions asked directly of me or specifically to what I've posted. Also sorry for posting same thing repeatedly, but think all repeats were also responses to direct questions asked.

What I may not have made perfectly clear (though I thought I did), is that as bad as this situation has been - and continues - I was fine and still defending Ryan/RBT even after I was passed over due to his inability or lack of concern to keep things straight on his end, as long as my Zion was coming this month as promised. Don't think I've mentioned it, but honestly would be fine if he (or anyone) could say you'll have your Zion by end of July - or whenever - with any confidence. Truly hope you stepping in on my behalf will provide that answer, because I feel that after this latest go round (and me emailing him last with no response), that I (and all of us) should have some idea of when that might be. And, if not everyone, at least those of us who purchased with an advertised ship date of Oct '15.

Thank you! I'll try to just sit back in this thread until I receive a much anticipated response. Or, will at least keep any responses to a few lines.

I... You have had contact with him and your in the next batch so I guess you at least know your getting one in the next few months...

Why would you say this? You know something we don't? Or, by next few months do you mean somewhere between 2 and 20?

 

[TeeJay1952]

Fuck Days of Our Lives this is much better.

 

[flotntoke]

One last bit of facts before I try to slink back into obscurity here and wait to see what happens...

Finally went and checked out orders and shipping based on the thread. If what was reported here by RBT was correct, 10 units went out first week of May. Of the 7 searchable order/receipt dates reported here in the thread, all 7 look to be ordered in August 2015 (8/2 - 8/15 near as I can tell). All 7 at least 2 weeks after my order date of 7/16/15 (a couple much closer to a month later). Not real happy about that - but again was OK with waiting another month/6weeks after almost 2 years. Now waiting who the fuck knows how much longer, again? Not so much. Suspect the other 3 that were shipped in May were ordered around same time. IIRC, I was probably very near the top of the list when last beta/earliest production units went out in early '16 (pretty sure last of those ordered May/June '15).

Trying to keep this sage advice and similar from others in mind for time being:

All you can do now is try and chill, you know how good the products are even with the negativity you feel, it's not that far down the tracks and with 2 years waiting it would be a shame to fall off at the last stage.

flot'n out of here other than to read for now.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Just wanted to remind everybody reading and posting in the thread that we do have a "be nice" rule. While nobody has broken it yet, it feels like we're starting to get close to it, and others may interpret posts as being worse than they are and then it snowballs. I don't want another... how do I word this... "Grasshopper vaporizer having three threads altogether with the first two getting locked because we went through this shipping delay and getting passed over bullshit and we spent a lot of money and waited a lot longer than we were told we would have to wait" incident. Y'all remember how that ended up going... I'm not defending any posters or the company, I'm just saying waiting 20+ months, getting told you'll have something "by the end of this week/month/year" and not seeing it happen, public refunds, getting skipped a bunch of times, etc... it's understandable that people are upset, but I don't want anybody getting real upset about it and then getting warning points or whatever :/ Thanks.