Dynavap VapCap

[Winegums]

Following up on this, I tried leaving a very small bit of room between the M's cap and tip (i.e., not fully inserting the tip into the cap) to see if it was the lack of notches, but that didn't make a noticeable difference.

Leads me to believe it's that smaller inner diameter of the M tip, which leaves about half as much space around the condenser as the Ti tip.

Can you try both side by side without the cap to see how much difference there is in drag? That way you can isolate whether it is indeed the diameter of the opening or it's the fitment of the cap and tip. I suspect that a lack of ports at the lip that the Ti has is the main cause of the restriction. The lip of the M tip is flat as well as the cap so there's not much room for air to get by.

I'm betting that the reduced diameter mostly for strength since the O-ring grooves and cooling fins create stress points in the steel. Ti doesn't have issues with stress risers at corners and notches so it can be made thinner. Also consider that the strength of the Ti is greater in general compared to 316L. We might not notice a difference in the final product but the extra strength would be important during machining.

 

[stardustsailor]

Also consider that the strength of the Ti is greater in general compared to 316L. We might not notice a difference in the final product but the extra strength would be important during machining.

Tensile Strength of Surgical Steel 316L is greater than of Titanium Grade 2
( 485 MegaPascal minimum versus 410MPa maximum, respectively ) .

Hardness of 316L is also greater than Titanium Grade 2
( 95 max @ Rockwell scale vs 80, respectively).

Sources: http://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=2382
http://asm.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MTU020

Still, 316L alloy is by far more easy to machine than grade 2 Titanium alloy ,
because titanium G2 is prone to chipping while machining and because of it's flammable nature needs
special coolants .Titanium also has the tendency to destroy cutting ,drilling and other machining tools.
More :http://www.supraalloys.com/technical2.php

Awkwardly enough those two metal alloys,have almost the same -quite low- thermal conductivity ,
(that being around 16,3 ~ 16,4 W/mK°) AND specific heat capacity -around 500 J/kgC°-.
thus,their thermal behaviour should be almost the same .

Cheers.

 

[Andreaerdna]

I've already asked George about the reason why the friction method (with o-rings) was
used over the screwing method (threads ) ,to connect the tip and the body/stem of the VC.

And his answer left no room for further questions.

Threading the wooden stems/bodies is something that won't work .
A threaded titanium tip will eventually destroy the threads of a wooden stem/body.

But....

Now with M model maybe-just maybe- things are different .

So,just throwing an idea here...

If the M tip was threaded to screw together with the M body ?
Then only one o-ring will be needed there (for no air/vapour leaks ) .

And what if the condenser was also threaded at the "mouthpiece" end?
The body also then has to have threads at the mp end( and a smaller diameter hole,of course ).
In that way the condenser will attach to the body at the mp section ,and the rest
(middle section & non-threaded end )
will remain "floating".
O-rings at the condenser are not needed ,now !

Once the body-condenser combo will attach to the tip,the non-threaded end
of the condenser will then "stabilise" inside the tip.

Furthermore,if the threaded part of the condenser has two notches on it's top ,
then the depth of insertion (of the non-threaded end) into the tip ,can be
adjusted via a small flat screwdriver ,inserted at the "mp" end of the body.

Thus allowing for an adjustable cool air -hot vapour ratio.

Usually the devil is in the
Please forgive me for my "arrogance" and try not to misunderstand me ..
I'm just falling in love with a tiny piece of metal.

heat transfert is a issue with a threaded connection. Multiples o rings act like insulator (quite well)

With wood on the other side (low heat conduction) it could work unless high temp char and consume wood

Edit: thank you @PAVANYD restless and helpfull!

 

[snackmaster]

Can you try both side by side without the cap to see how much difference there is in drag? That way you can isolate whether it is indeed the diameter of the opening or it's the fitment of the cap and tip. I suspect that a lack of ports at the lip that the Ti has is the main cause of the restriction. The lip of the M tip is flat as well as the cap so there's not much room for air to get by.

1. Condensers in:
a. Caps off w/ carbs open or closed: No meaningful difference
b. Caps on w/ carbs open: Ti has better airflow
c. Caps on w/ carbs closed: M has slightly better airflow

2. Condensers out:
a. Caps off w/ carbs open or closed: No meaningful difference
b. Caps on w/ carbs open: No meaningful difference
c. Caps on w/ carbs closed: M has slightly better airflow

This is all subjective, but 1b v 2b points to space between tips and condensers as main cause of restriction, and 1c & 2c makes me think airflow between the cap and tip has more to do with groove size than lip ports.

I'm betting that the reduced diameter mostly for strength since the O-ring grooves and cooling fins create stress points in the steel. Ti doesn't have issues with stress risers at corners and notches so it can be made thinner. Also consider that the strength of the Ti is greater in general compared to 316L. We might not notice a difference in the final product but the extra strength would be important during machining.

Did not know this. Interesting!

 

[Squiby]

Yeah well I never got an email, checked spam too

I wonder if the Dynavap email was sent only to previous customers who created an account and password as an optional part of the checkout process?

Since the newsletter subscription option is open to anyone who signs up, they would not have been able to specifically target past customers for the special offers through this avenue.

If you do not have an account on the Dynavap website, this may be why you did not recieve the email.

 

[stardustsailor]

heat transfert is a issue with a threaded connection. Multiples o rings act like insulator (quite well)

With wood on the other side (low heat conduction) it could work unless high temp char and consume wood

Please,allow me to disagree with you .
If the tip and body were made i.e. out of an aluminium alloy -even if it was tempered -
then yes,heat transfer would have been an issue ,
because of the high thermal conductivity of Al alloys generally ,that being around 150-200 W/mK.
More than 10 times the thermal conductivity of 316L and /or Ti G2 .

A 316L / Ti G2 body /stem could become hot enough though,
after prolonged use without some cool down intervals,
due to high heat capacity of those two metal alloys.
Aluminium gets hot easily ,but cools down as easy as well .
316L / Ti G2 alloys need a lot of energy (heat) to become as hot ,
but they need a certain period of time to cool down.

Yes,silicone o-rings act as an insulator ( BTW ,Isopropyl alcohol doesn't affect silicone in any way, at all ) ,
but they are quite sensitive to mechanical abuse and stress.

Since the M is/will be oftenly dismantled for cleaning ,the o-rings have an expiry date
that, to my humble opinion,doesn't quite keep up with the durability of the rest of the parts involved.
The less silicone or any other polymer involved in a vaporizer ,the better.
For quite a few reasons beyond durability ,maybe.

But in order to be fair ,which vaporizer really ,doesn't need frequent replacement of screens and o-rings ?

...

Well...
Allow me to trust that the M has all the potentional to be the first ever !

 

[Andreaerdna]

Please,allow me to disagree with you .
If the tip and body were made i.e. out of an aluminium alloy -even if it was tempered -
then yes,heat transfer would have been an issue ,
because of the high thermal conductivity of Al alloys generally ,that being around 150-200 W/mK.
More than 10 times the thermal conductivity of 316L and /or Ti G2 .

A 316L / Ti G2 body /stem could become hot enough though,
after prolonged use without some cool down intervals,
due to high heat capacity of those two metal alloys.
Aluminium gets hot easily ,but cools down as easy as well .
316L / Ti G2 alloys need a lot of energy (heat) to become as hot ,
but they need a certain period of time to cool down.

Yes,silicone o-rings act as an insulator ( BTW ,Isopropyl alcohol doesn't affect silicone in any way, at all ) ,
but they are quite sensitive to mechanical abuse and stress.

Since the M is/will be oftenly dismantled for cleaning the silico,the o-rings have an expiry date,
that, to my humble opinion,doesn't quite keep up with the durability of the rest of the parts involved.
The less silicone or any other polymer involved in a vaporizer ,the better.
For quite a few reasons beyond durability ,maybe.

But in order to be fair ,which vaporizer really ,doesn't need frequent replacement of screens and o-rings ?

...

Well...
Allow me to trust that the M has all the potentional to be the first ever !

We agree we disagree

I have home made stem out of solid gr2 ti tubing (almost 1mm thick)
It get quite hot fast, when I replaced O-rings with some hemp fiber, the stem (while longer than stdard) was nearly too hot to handle. Hence I went back to oring, hence me believe that a threaded connection (actual heat conduction between metal tip and body/stem) would be too hot to handle

And IIRC @VapCap stated O-ring solution was necessary to keep heat in the tip, but it is a more than year old memory soooo

 

[ClearBlueLou]

I wonder if the Dynavap email was sent only to previous customers who created an account and password as an optional part of the checkout process?

Since the newsletter subscription option is open to anyone who signs up, they would not have been able to specifically target past customers for the special offers through this avenue.

If you do not have an account on the Dynavap website, this may be why you did not recieve the email.

I expect you're right: and you remind me that there was a weekly deal email that was supposedly going out - which I signed up for before I got my Omni.

Never did get one ' those deal mails until now, I guess.

==

On the ISO / durability / wearing front, it's almost unfair to count any of the pieces as 'moving parts', despite the lego-nature of the things: there is simply no reason at all to remove the screens except to move them, or or to remove the o-rings unless they fail. Except for friction, there is no source of wear (ok, the internal stress of the metal thru repeated heat cycles, but..).

Best I can tell, as long as reasonable care, caution and patience are applied, and things are at least minimally lubricated, your o-rings and screen and caps should last for years. Care is simple, quick and requires no field-stripping.

Especially with the advent of the M, which I find even more appealing then my Omni: these characteristics make the little beast practically eternal...which will probably end up w/ GeorgeCo. selling millions of these as they become must-have pocket tools for any head.

 

[Winegums]

Tensile Strength of Surgical Steel 316L is greater than of Titanium Grade 2
( 485 MegaPascal minimum versus 410MPa maximum, respectively ) .

Hardness of 316L is also greater than Titanium Grade 2
( 95 max @ Rockwell scale vs 80, respectively).

Sources: http://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=2382
http://asm.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MTU020

Still, 316L alloy is by far more easy to machine than grade 2 Titanium alloy ,
because titanium G2 is prone to chipping while machining and because of it's flammable nature needs
special coolants .Titanium also has the tendency to destroy cutting ,drilling and other machining tools.
More :http://www.supraalloys.com/technical2.php

Awkwardly enough those two metal alloys,have almost the same -quite low- thermal conductivity ,
(that being around 16,3 ~ 16,4 W/mK°) AND specific heat capacity -around 500 J/kgC°-.
thus,their thermal behaviour should be almost the same .

Cheers.

Ah, I was thinking of Grade 5 Ti. Thanks for the correction, though I can't find any info saying what grade of material the Ti tips are actually made from?

I've machined some Ti and it's not fun. Highly recommend not doing it as your first lathing project.

 

[snackmaster]

Please,allow me to disagree with you .
If the tip and body were made i.e. out of an aluminium alloy -even if it was tempered -
then yes,heat transfer would have been an issue ,
because of the high thermal conductivity of Al alloys generally ,that being around 150-200 W/mK.
More than 10 times the thermal conductivity of 316L and /or Ti G2 .

A 316L / Ti G2 body /stem could become hot enough though,
after prolonged use without some cool down intervals,
due to high heat capacity of those two metal alloys.
Aluminium gets hot easily ,but cools down as easy as well .
316L / Ti G2 alloys need a lot of energy (heat) to become as hot ,
but they need a certain period of time to cool down.

Yes,silicone o-rings act as an insulator ( BTW ,Isopropyl alcohol doesn't affect silicone in any way, at all ) ,
but they are quite sensitive to mechanical abuse and stress.

Since the M is/will be oftenly dismantled for cleaning the silico,the o-rings have an expiry date,
that, to my humble opinion,doesn't quite keep up with the durability of the rest of the parts involved.
The less silicone or any other polymer involved in a vaporizer ,the better.
For quite a few reasons beyond durability ,maybe.

But in order to be fair ,which vaporizer really ,doesn't need frequent replacement of screens and o-rings ?

...

Well...
Allow me to trust that the M has all the potentional to be the first ever !

Totally see your points about threading being more durable and minimizing silicone, but it also requires a fair amount of precision machining that I imagine would drive up costs and bump the M out of the $50 range.

 

[stardustsailor]

We agree we disagree

I have home made stem out of solid gr2 ti tubing (almost 1mm thick)
It get quite hot fast, when I replaced O-rings with some hemp fiber, the stem (while longer than stdard) was nearly too hot to handle. Hence I went back to oring, hence me believe that a threaded connection (actual heat conduction between metal tip and body/stem) would be too hot to handle

And IIRC @VapCap stated O-ring solution was necessary to keep heat in the tip, but it is a more than year old memory soooo

If it's been tested already and it doesn't work ,then we (especially me ) can forget about the whole thing.
Many times in theory things do seem to work.But reality has other plans for a design.
As a designer I have taken that lesson ,quite a few times.
Thank you for your valuable input.

Totally see your points about threading being more durable and minimizing silicone, but it also requires a fair amount of precision machining that I imagine would drive up costs and bump the M out of the $50 range.

You're probably right about that !
Did not give a thought about the (extra) machining costs...



Well,it was a nice dream ,while it lasted ...

 

[cybrguy]

What is the practical difference between the Ti and Steel CCDs? Are the former more durable? Can the steel ones be used in a Ti tip, and vice versa? Do they have the same cutouts and therefore airflow? This has been asked before but I have never seen the answer. Sorry if I just missed it.

OK, while I hate to interrupt your workflow, @PAVANYD , I really would like an answer on this before I place my next order, now that I have both SS and Ti tips. I would ask in email but I don't think I am the only one who wants to know.

 

[Winegums]

OK, while I hate to interrupt your workflow, @PAVANYD , I really would like an answer on this before I place my next order, now that I have both SS and Ti tips. I would ask in email but I don't think I am the only one who wants to know.

I've found that the Ti CCD don't have any practical advantage over the SS CCD. If anything the SS CCD is easier for me to install, it's less prone to bending, and it costs less.

I've had a lot of problems with my Ti CCDs not fitting properly. They're either too loose and falling out, or so tight that they require a lot of force which bends them in odd ways when I try to install them. I've given up trying to get them into my grooves and have ordered a pack of replacement SS screens out of frustration. They're not worth it in my experience.

This is the new design of Ti screens that I'm referring to, I've never used the original Ti design.

 

[stardustsailor]

I've found that the Ti CCD don't have any practical advantage over the SS CCD. If anything the SS CCD is easier for me to install, it's less prone to bending, and it costs less.

I've had a lot of problems with my Ti CCDs not fitting properly. They're either too loose and falling out, or so tight that they require a lot of force which bends them in odd ways when I try to install them. I've given up trying to get them into my grooves and have ordered a pack of replacement SS screens out of frustration. They're not worth it in my experience.

This is the new design of Ti screens that I'm referring to, I've never used the original Ti design.

As I have not tried any of the two kinds of the CCD ,I can not express any opinion.
But I can imagine that the coeff of thermal expansion should make a difference ,regarding the CCDs
( 316L expands almost double than Ti G2 ) .
Although I'm not quite sure if that difference is noticeable.

Winegums,I 'm hard guessing that Ti Grade 2 is used for the tip (as for the rest titanium parts) ,
simply because it's the most common Ti alloy used and quite easy to be found in rods,tubes,bars,plates,etc of a vast dimension range,while the rest of Ti alloys are quite rare ,unearthly expensive and difficult to
obtain as they are reserved mainly for the aerospace & military industry.

 

[exime]

I just got my M! I'm already confused lol!

#1 says "Remove cap and fill tip with material of choice by pushing the tip into the material and twisting."

Don't I just take the cap off and put material inside? What's with all the verbiage about pushing and twisting? There's a picture with an X and a check mark saying twist it and I still don't understand what they are trying to tell me.

 

[DarkSm0ke]

I wonder if the Dynavap email was sent only to previous customers who created an account and password as an optional part of the checkout process?

Since the newsletter subscription option is open to anyone who signs up, they would not have been able to specifically target past customers for the special offers through this avenue.

If you do not have an account on the Dynavap website, this may be why you did not recieve the email.

Err yeah I did make an account when I placed my first order back in January. And uh I just did a search and found the e-mails from Dynavap regarding the limited "M" sale. So yeah this is all on me. I don't know how I missed BOTH. I have to own this one

On a side note got contacted by Dynavap and looks like they are going to make everything all good. What are the chances of a company having a great product and backing it up with great Customer Service? America needs more companies like Dynavap. No designed here, made over there crap. Made in the good old U S of A baby

 

[Winegums]

As I have not tried any of the two kinds of the CCD ,I can not express any opinion.
But I can imagine that the coeff of thermal expansion should make a difference ,regarding the CCDs
( 316L expands almost double than Ti G2 ) .
Although I'm not quite sure if that difference is noticeable.

I don't think thermal expansion would cause the issues I'm having with the CCDs.

Winegums,I 'm hard guessing that Ti Grade 2 is used for the tip (as for the rest titanium parts) ,
simply because it's the most common Ti alloy used and quite easy to be found in rods,tubes,bars,plates,etc of a vast dimension range,while the rest of Ti alloys are quite rare ,unearthly expensive and difficult to
obtain as they are reserved mainly for the aerospace & military industry.

Grade 5 is actually quite common, it's also called Ti6Al4V.

 

[Hogni]

I just got my M! I'm already confused lol!

#1 says "Remove cap and fill tip with material of choice by pushing the tip into the material and twisting."

Don't I just take the cap off and put material inside? What's with all the verbiage about pushing and twisting? There's a picture with an X and a check mark saying twist it and I still don't understand what they are trying to tell me.

It's just their advice for - easy - loading the chamber. Do so as you like it.

 

[Winegums]

I just got my M! I'm already confused lol!

#1 says "Remove cap and fill tip with material of choice by pushing the tip into the material and twisting."

Don't I just take the cap off and put material inside? What's with all the verbiage about pushing and twisting? There's a picture with an X and a check mark saying twist it and I still don't understand what they are trying to tell me.

If you have a hemp filter installed you can use your vapcap like a vacuum and suck up the weed from your container. It's great for loading the vapcap with kief.

 

[exime]

It's just their advice for - easy - loading the chamber. Do so as you like it.

Okay cool just didn't want to break it on the first use xD

If you have a hemp filter installed you can use your vapcap like a vacuum and suck up the weed from your container. It's great for loading the vapcap with kief.

Well I always have kief so that sounds kind of nice to have.

 

[DarkSm0ke]

Just ordered an "M" for my little sister's birthday... extra screens, extra o-rings... I will let her pick out what Dynastash she wants after she gets the "M" dialed in!

 

[snackmaster]

I just got my M! I'm already confused lol!

#1 says "Remove cap and fill tip with material of choice by pushing the tip into the material and twisting."

Don't I just take the cap off and put material inside? What's with all the verbiage about pushing and twisting? There's a picture with an X and a check mark saying twist it and I still don't understand what they are trying to tell me.

Pushing the tip into the material and twisting works well when loading from a dynastash, but otherwise I use the vacuum method @Winegums mentioned (minus the hemp fiber). That picture goes with the heating instructions on #2.

 

[exime]

Pushing the tip into the material and twisting works well when loading from a dynastash, but otherwise I use the vacuum method @Winegums mentioned (minus the hemp fiber). That picture goes with the heating instructions on #2.

Ohh I get it now thanks.

 

[Alexis]

Greetings and warm wishes all vapcappers!

Just a few Q's- this talk about the airflow restriction differences between M tip and Ti tips has got my ears up. My brain is slow to make sense of anything right now.
To me, better airflow is preferable. I am doing my best to recruit and convert several friends to vaping and purchase an M in the 4/20 sale this month.

I am telling them all it will be better than sliced bread. So I dont want "M" (them) to be unhappy with a restricted draw. Maybe the comparisons are being made to the newest,,4th gen Ti tips?
Which have the best airflow.

What do any new M owners think? Do you find the M to have noticeable draw restriction? Compared to the Ti? The OG? Or is it simply not an issue at all?

Also, does anybody know how long the 4/20 sale will last? It's 20th April right?
Just for 1 day? I will hope to order for several friends, so I need to have their money ready in my bank.

Im presuming the M may be discounted to $40 again,,if anyone has any ideas about this in advance?
We need some idea what to expect if it is a one day sale only.
Thank you for any response.

 

[cybrguy]

If you have a hemp filter installed you can use your vapcap like a vacuum and suck up the weed from your container. It's great for loading the vapcap with kief.

As long as you don't grind powdery the suck fill method is just fine without a hemp filter, at least for me. I do that with my glass stems for other devices too.