The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

t-dub

Vapor Sloth
And Assange can go to hell.
Getting under your skin Silat?

I will say this. Julian's last big release failed to impress me, except for Podesta's e-mails on the Clinton Foundation which, when combined with tax records, are a total home run showing the Clintons pocketed hundreds of millions of dollars while pretending to help poor and disadvantaged people ravaged by earthquakes and hurricanes.

What Assange is saying now, that this dump could get HRC arrested, well that is a big statement. If he can't back it up, it will seriously damage and probably completely eliminate his credibility. I know he hates H, and I'm very wary of him sensationalizing things just to promote his brand and/or hurt his enemies, while exposing verbatim content which is enlightening.
 
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Tranquility

Well-Known Member
As the republican party 'seemingly' implodes they are making their best effort to destroy our nation as they slowly fall apart. The opposition party has been literally demonized (as in satan talk) and the current Republican leadership have made it clear they will not work with Hillary Clinton from day one of her administration. They have made it a religious issue not to work with democrats on anything, ever, period. Why are they willing to do these things? It is as if the Republicans want a totalitarian theocracy. It's almost as if deep down inside many of them possess yearnings for an apocalyptic type ending.
While not the parties, review the comments in this thread from members mentioning the other party. (Wasn't there a prior post that literally called Trump Satan in this thread?) I seem to recall one calling the other side all asshats.

As to a religious issue, I'm not sure I disagree. However, let us look to the quasi-religious leftism on the other side as well. What happens when a person wanders outside their dogma?

That's the problem. We've divided ourselves among core beliefs and each has a dogma attached. Not all of us, but an overwhelming majority. You know what the rules are. How are we going to work together to solve the "problems" when our core beliefs want different paths?

Affordable Care Act? We can argue all day about the other's *real* plan, but it will be that one side wants to shift to market-based and the other wants single payer. How do we work together on that? Where is the middle?

Abortion? Heck, let's call it life itself. Cloning, genetic manipulation, end-of-life issues (including health care rationing) are going to have many issues come up. I suspect there will be core disagreements between the dogmas. How do we come to agreement?

I'm not sure why one side's dogma is more important than the other's.

It is impossible for our nation to even function if one side is always knee-jerk against the other. Willing to call them satan worshippers, queers, and baby killers. It is clear that this nation destroying obstructionist strategy is engineered only by the decadent republican party. We already went through 8 years of pure republican obstructionism and the only people it ultimately hurt was the middle and lower classes. It is beyond frustrating republicans are so willing to hurt the American people by refusing to work with the democrats to get anything done regardless of how important.
A quote often used to describe the different sides is (I think it was Krauthammer.), "Conservatives think liberals are stupid. Liberals think conservatives are evil." I think there is far more vitriol from the opposite side than you believe. Did you see the video of the crowd and the homeless woman who was purportedly protecting Trump's star on the Walk of Fame? ( https://www.rt.com/usa/364631-crowd-attacks-homeless-trump/ ) I know anecdotes don't prove anything, but look at the news articles you see where you surf. Do you find an imbalance in any way between the actors?

I might claim the middle and lower classes have been hurt because of the fiscal policies of the last two administrations. I have no idea why the "middle and lower classes" don't know they're paying for the debt. The problem is it is more hidden in the mix than the amount of taxes taken at filing time. I could go on into extreme detail and fervor, but ain't nobody got time for that. Then we could go back and forth and we would probably end up proving the quote above to be true.

There are going to be SOME things that will get done. Immigration reform is one. Both sides want things the other side understands and generally agrees with. Some want the high-level worker immigration increased while others need laborers for specific tasks. Everyone knows there are millions here illegally and we have to do something. There's a deal in there even with the counter-interests of different parts of each side. To go on more might require some input on what "important" thing needs to be addressed that is not.

I am not a democrat or republican but the republican's are the real asshats of American Politics and that is more than obvious. I admit I have a hard time accepting why everyone doesn't see it my way.
I'm not sure there is a huge divide between that and being knee-jerk against the other.
 
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CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
This is too crazy. Another reason not to allow Trump near the Oval Office. First he suggests that women be punished for abortions and then retracts that comment a few hours later. We really don't know what would happen in a Trump presidency. I don't want this thread to turn into an abortion thread.
Just some food for thought. Thinking about all the stupid stuff Trump has said and thinking about what a Trump presidency would look like. Also the stopping and frisking folks if they look suspicious is pure rediculious and unconstitutional. A Trump administration wants to stand in front of the rights of people of color.

With all the recent Comey's statements regarding the Anthony Weiner computer. I am so pissed at all the reckless behavior on both sides.
:2c:

This info is from July 2016.
Mike Pence has signed a law that would have forced women to hold funerals for fetuses, even, in some cases, after a miscarriage.

Wait, what? That can’t possibly be true, can it?

Well, the answer i is mostly right, Pence did sign a law that requires fetuses to be “cremated or interred,” so it would be accurate to say that the law requires funerary services for any aborted or miscarried fetus “irrespective of gestational age or duration of pregnancy.”

But the law also states that the health care facility that has “possession” of the fetus is responsible for the burial or cremation, and the parents are only liable for costs associated with the burial or cremation if they choose a location and method other than what the facility normally uses. Also, the law says that fetuses younger than 20 weeks can be cremated in bunches, and the law also specifies that you don’t have to name your miscarried or aborted fetus. They’re not monsters, after all.

Edit
I do worry that the rights for my daughter, nieces and granddaughters to be able to have a legal abortion someday will be taken away. The right for a woman to choose to have a baby or not should be their choice. I've never had to agonize over having to have an abortion but have known friends that have. It's not a decision that is easily made.

@OldNewbie it looks like Trumps your guy.

Comey needs to keep his mouth shut unless he had real info to give the American people. On CNN and Bill Maher folks were saying that a hundred FBI agents needs to read through the emails. In 72 hours and have information to give the citizens. Comey did not handle this very well IMO - very reckless and so obvious. We are right in the middle of an election - people are actively voting by mail.

@yogoshio Seriously!! I'm not discussing abortion anymore. Make an abortion thread if you are brave enough. It will get shut down, I'm pretty sure. Too hot of a topic and a personal one if you are a woman.
 
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grokit

well-worn member
55401472.jpg


:myday:
 

pakalolo

Toolbag v1.1 (candidate)
Staff member
I just deleted 16 comments concerning abortion. Some of them could easily have earned a warning point for breaking our Be Nice rule. Please restrict your comments to the candidates in the Presidential campaign and avoid commenting on the personality, credibility, or posting style of other members. If you cannot make your post without expressing anger towards the person to whom you are responding, then do not post. There will be no more lenience.
 

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
The FBI isn't supposed to comment about something that would effect the outcome of an a election 60 days out, let alone a presidential election. This is tampering with the outcome of an election. So what if Trump wins because of innuendo? This isn't fair to the American people.

Fuck you to Bill Clinton for talking to Loretta Lynch on the tarmac. Oh wrong thread!:bang:

FBI - Tell folks what this is all about or shut the hell up. Now some people are thinking Anthony Weiner could have struck a deal with the Feds because he may be looking at some serious time. The American people can't get a do over at this time with our choice as president.

Anthony Weiner is a creep and we are finding out possibly a pedophile too. I hope they throw the book at him if he's guilty.
 
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Silat

When the Facts Change, I Change My Mind.
Getting under your skin Silat?

I will say this. Julian's last big release failed to impress me, except for Podesta's e-mails on the Clinton Foundation which, when combined with tax records, are a total home run showing the Clintons pocketed hundreds of millions of dollars while pretending to help poor and disadvantaged people ravaged by earthquakes and hurricanes.

What Assange is saying now, that this dump could get HRC arrested, well that is a big statement. If he can't back it up, it will seriously damage and probably completely eliminate his credibility. I know he hates H, and I'm very wary of him sensationalizing things just to promote his brand and/or hurt his enemies, while exposing verbatim content which is enlightening.

I saw no proof of that assertion that the Clintons pocketed foundation money and did not help.
In fact the foundation has an A rating with over 80 cents of every dollar going to those in need.

And no you are not getting under my skin.

I think that you making that comment shows that it is you that has thin skin.
 
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Silat

When the Facts Change, I Change My Mind.
I do not see your point.
If you are trying to say the Red Cross is not perfect then I agree. But on the whole they are and have done great things.
The Clinton foundation is only bad in the eyes of the reich wing.
12% overhead.
$2 cost to raise $100.
They are as good as a foundation gets.
https://www.charitywatch.org/ratings-and-metrics/bill-hillary-chelsea-clinton-foundation/478
 

grokit

well-worn member
I do not see your point.
If you are trying to say the Red Cross is not perfect then I agree. But on the whole they are and have done great things.
The Clinton foundation is only bad in the eyes of the reich wing.
12% overhead.
$2 cost to raise $100.
They are as good as a foundation gets.
https://www.charitywatch.org/ratings-and-metrics/bill-hillary-chelsea-clinton-foundation/478
The international red cross is great, the american red cross has been corrupted (by..?)

All of these charitywatch ratings are based on self-reported financial information :suspicious:

Neither charity is perfect, and charitywatch obviously isn't either.
In fact they remind me of the corrupt financial ratings firms.
They're currently giving the american red cross an "A-".

From the nyt earlier this year:

High Hopes for Hillary Clinton, Then Disappointment in Haiti
Fewer than half the jobs promised at the industrial park, built after 366 farmers were evicted from their lands, have materialized. Many millions of dollars earmarked for relief efforts have yet to be spent. Mrs. Clinton’s brother Tony Rodham has turned up in business ventures on the island, setting off speculation about insider deals.
“A vote for Hillary Clinton means further corruption, further death and destruction for our people,” said Dahoud Andre, a radio show host in New York who has helped organize protests against the Clintons. “It means more Haitians leaving Haiti and not being able to live in our country.”
And now, Michel Martelly, a president whom Mrs. Clinton helped get elected, has turned out to be another in a long line of troubling leaders.
Tony Jeanthenor, 55, a member of the Miami-based Haitian human rights group Veye-Yo as well as Lavalas Family, a Haitian political party, said he was voting for Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont because of the senator’s distaste for involvement in other countries’ affairs.
“Nothing good for Haiti can come out of Hillary because of her past behavior,” Mr. Jeanthenor said.

The haitians have told both organizations to sod off :disgust:

:myday:
 
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CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
OK I hope something real terrible comes out about Trump. I'm sure there has to be some major skeletons in his closet that needs to be uncovered and talked about.

I hope Trump really over plays his hand over the next ten days and says some really inappropriate stuff. Something that will blow him out of the water. The democrats have to have something up their sleeve. So sick of hearing the lock her up chanting that I've turned the TV off.

The republicans will be out for blood. They will take their chance and play it to the hilt.
Anthony Weiner is the gift that keeps on giving.

By the way the United Red Cross is a major charity that I donate to yearly. @grokit you're killing me with all your reality checks.
Sometimes its easier wearing rose colored glasses.

Everybody was sure feeling down on Bill Maher last night regarding the FBI news. It felt good getting a little political humor. How will SNL handle this FBI stuff - I hope they do a good job with it. They usually have pretty good instincts.

Edit
@grokit I think @GetLeft was just joking and didn't use a period to end the previous sentence. I don't think he meant it as a insult. I thought it was a compliment.

You guys on this forum really do give us something to think about and that is a good thing. Even though we don't always agree. Some very smart minds in motion.
 
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GetLeft

Well-Known Member
I know @grokit has some vapor and mirrors up his sleeve to distract us :tup: but folks the reason we don't see nate silver around this election cylce like we did in past election cycles is because no one will watch the sillyass drama we've been fussing over if they put him on their shows. Today's reality update:

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/?ex_cid=rrpromo

And here's their click for the Senate race:

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/senate/?ex_cid=2016-forecast

Heck, even PA is looking like bluish in its Senate race. Now if that doesn't put a smiley face on you :| I don't know what will.
 

grokit

well-worn member
I know @grokit has some vapor and mirrors up his sleeve to distract us :tup: but folks the reason we don't see nate silver around this election cylce like we did in past election cycles is because no one will watch the sillyass drama we've been fussing over if they put him on their shows. Today's reality update:
What does nate silver have to do with me, and what have I posted that you think isn't real?

I really don't understand wtf you're calling me out about.

:myday:
 

GetLeft

Well-Known Member
I really don't understand wtf you're calling me out about.

Sorry! No harm intended. Didn't realize I was calling you out. Gotta do something about that. Should be something I realize I'm doing, no?

I simply think that silver's research makes it pretty clear who's going to win, just like it's done in other not-so-close elections.

I don't see the donald scare. Old school white facist/conservativism exists indeed but is on its way out (we all gotta die sometime) and it's not coming back 'cause there's a slew of upcoming generations who have a history of being persecuted and marginalized and they will be the ones who make america great again, once the crazy old white males kick the proverbial bucket.

The real scare, and we all know it, is how many of the young white facist/conservatives will go all anarchy on us when they recognize for sure that they have no hope for the retro-future fantasy that their dads told them that their dads lived in. They could really fuck things up.
 

gangababa

Well-Known Member
Well, I may have missed it, but I do not see anyone posting the newest truth about the email kerfuffle.
I am not posting links to what is too easy to find.

The FBI has not seen the emails.
The FBI does not have a warrant to look at the emails.
The FBI is not re-opening anything.
The FBI, knowing nothing of the emails, can't have the goods on anyone.
There is no smouldering , only snickering, snatching and snookering.

Stop being snookered by snickering Republican shit snatching!
 

grokit

well-worn member
:hmm:
Is James Comey an Irresponsible, Partisan Hack?
Or Was He Just Doing His Job?


28-james-comey.w710.h473.jpg


On Friday, James Comey announced that the FBI had discovered new emails that are pertinent to the bureau’s investigation of Hillary Clinton’s conduct as secretary of State, but which are not, necessarily, significant, in the context of that investigation.

Which is to say, 11 days before America counts its ballots — and many days after early voting in the 2016 election began — the director of the FBI has publicly suggested that he has evidence which may implicate the Democratic nominee in some sort of crime, but also, ya know, maybe not at all. Oh, and he “cannot predict how long it will take” for him to figure that out, one way or the other.

But early reports suggest that there won’t be an answer until after Election Day. And that the emails were not sent from a device owned by Clinton, but rather, from the sexting obsessed, estranged husband of one of her top aides.

Also, Comey is a Republican.

Add these ingredients together and you have a recipe for red-hot liberal outrage.

Feinstein says it is "appalling" that FBI broke tradition of using caution near election day to avoid influencing the result: pic.twitter.com/AvatQlRktp
— Abby D. Phillip (@abbydphillip) October 28, 2016

Statement from Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta goes after Comey – hard pic.twitter.com/bu9HHInCUs
— Jennifer Epstein (@jeneps) October 28, 2016

And, in fact, Comey’s announcement was so bizarre, it even outraged members of the political party which ostensibly stands to benefit from it.
I don't trust this FBI thing. It feels like an attempt to distract from something larger and then at the last moment declare it nothing.
— Bill Mitchell (@mitchellvii) October 28, 2016

Why is FBI doing this just 11 days before the election?
— JohnCornyn (@JohnCornyn) October 28, 2016
The most likely answer to Cornyn’s question, as of this writing, appears to be this: The FBI’s separate investigation into Anthony Weiner’s sexts with an underaged girl yielded new emails involving his wife, Clinton aide Huma Abedin, that had some potential relevance to the FBI’s prior investigation of Clinton.

Once this discovery was made, Comey may have had no choice but to inform Congress. Per Newsweek:

The truth is Comey didn’t have a choice. Because the new information followed his sworn testimony about the case, Comey was obligated by Department of Justice rules to keep the relevant committees apprised.

Under oath Comey had stated that the bureau had completed its review. Once he learned that there were new emails that required examination, Comey had to notify Congress that he had to amend his testimony because it was no longer true.

Comey’s letter to congressional committee chairs doesn’t say his agents have discovered new witnesses or documents suggesting a criminal act occurred. Rather, he only suggests that evidence that has not yet been examined needs to be reviewed because it is relevant to the case.
Had Comey sat on this information until after the election, it could have undermined his credibility and that of his agency (even more than revealing the information now has). Or so goes the argument for the defense.

If Comey’s timing is justifiable, what about the wording of his update?

Read the letter FBI Director James Comey sent to 8 congressional committee chairmen regarding Clinton's emails https://t.co/XnuvdkXPJr pic.twitter.com/JCw9mBx9vL
— CNN (@CNN) October 28, 2016

Unlike Newsweek, the FBI director did not take pains to spell out what his announcement did and did not constitute. Considering the lengths Comey went to when explaining his decision not to indict Clinton last summer — publicly declaring that his decision not to bring criminal charges did not mean that the presidential candidate hadn’t been “extremely careless” in handling classified information — it does seem like he could have written a clearer, more general public-friendly version of his notification to Congress.

:myday:
 
grokit,
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Silat

When the Facts Change, I Change My Mind.
The international red cross is great, the american red cross has been corrupted (by..?)

All of these charitywatch ratings are based on self-reported financial information :suspicious:

Neither charity is perfect, and charitywatch obviously isn't either.
In fact they remind me of the corrupt financial ratings firms.
They're currently giving the american red cross an "A-".

From the nyt earlier this year:

High Hopes for Hillary Clinton, Then Disappointment in Haiti
Fewer than half the jobs promised at the industrial park, built after 366 farmers were evicted from their lands, have materialized. Many millions of dollars earmarked for relief efforts have yet to be spent. Mrs. Clinton’s brother Tony Rodham has turned up in business ventures on the island, setting off speculation about insider deals.
“A vote for Hillary Clinton means further corruption, further death and destruction for our people,” said Dahoud Andre, a radio show host in New York who has helped organize protests against the Clintons. “It means more Haitians leaving Haiti and not being able to live in our country.”
And now, Michel Martelly, a president whom Mrs. Clinton helped get elected, has turned out to be another in a long line of troubling leaders.
Tony Jeanthenor, 55, a member of the Miami-based Haitian human rights group Veye-Yo as well as Lavalas Family, a Haitian political party, said he was voting for Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont because of the senator’s distaste for involvement in other countries’ affairs.
“Nothing good for Haiti can come out of Hillary because of her past behavior,” Mr. Jeanthenor said.

The haitians have told both organizations to sod off :disgust:

:myday:

Try this:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...9/the_truth_about_the_clintons_and_haiti.html
 
Silat,
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Reactions: RUDE BOY

grokit

well-worn member
That's hardly a flattering portrait, although it does sort through some nuance. The clintons are basically colonizing a helpless country, using its natural disaster to create business opportunities for the corporate donors to their foundation. They receive no "direct benefit," just speaking fees and $ connections.

"From her first days as secretary of state, Clinton saw the island republic as a place to “road-test” a central piece of her foreign policy vision of “elevating development alongside diplomacy and defense as core pillars of American power.” Haiti would be a major example of “economic statecraft,” as she called it, where business and government partner to address natural disasters, poverty, and disease, neutralizing threats while generating money and power for the United States—what her husband would call a “win-win-win.”

USAID, ignoring recommendations to hire Haitian contractors, brought in several U.S. firms (and one Mexican firm) to build a housing development. The added cost of flights, hotels, cars, food allowances, living expenses, and “danger pay” ballooned the cost per house from $8,000 to $33,000, investigative reporter Jake Johnston found. Ultimately two of the American contractors were suspended from receiving future government contracts. “Out of ignorance, there was much arrogance”.

Clinton’s trip to Haiti in 2011 represents the softer end of a long tradition of U.S. invasions, coups, and usurpations: Panama in 1903 to Iran, 1953; Guatemala, 1954, to Congo, 1961; Vietnam, 1963, to Chile, 1973, to Iraq 2003, and on and on."


:myday:
 
grokit,

Tranquility

Well-Known Member
The game is obvious. They have Huma Abedin's device and the FBI is seeing if there is anything that will implicate Hillary Clinton to the mishandling of classified information or anything illegal. This has absolutely zero to do with Anthony Weiner's perversions - that's just talk. So the FBI is taking another serious shot at Hillary. I hope they miss once again but it's a strange world we live in my friends.

I am sickened as to how divided the nation is. This has really become a nightmare for America.

edit: weirdly, I have read it may indeed have something to do with the Weiner boy - can things get any more strange than this election cycle?

:shrug:
I think the FBI legitimately was investigating an allegation Weiner (The Fredo of the Democratic Family.) had long term internet communications with a 15 year old in another state. (I don't know the specific allegations. The cool kids seem to say "sexting".) As part of the investigation, they interviewed Weiner and he allegedly gave consent to search the devices. The FBI seized the devices and started a search when they found what most are reporting as emails to a certain account Huma Albedin used at home. Something in what they saw gave the investigators cause to think that area of the hard drive/file system/whatever may have something to do with the prior investigation related to Hillary's e-mail.

I have read the FBI, out of an abundance of caution, stopped the search of the area related to the Albedin account and are going to determine the next steps upon review. Usually, they would get a search warrant. It protects the evidence from the search in any prosecution from being excluded from a claim the search exceed the scope of the consent granted. In other words, they get the warrant to prevent the claim that Anthony did not have the actual or "apparent" authority to authorize a search on the account.
 

grokit

well-worn member
46% to 45%
Clinton's lead over Trump in the latest Washington Post-ABC News Tracking Poll.

34%
of voters say the FBI's announcement Friday that it may review additional emails from Clinton's time as secretary of state makes them less likely to vote for her.

68%
of voters who say that are Republicans or Republican-leaning independents :o

46% and 38%
of voters who say Clinton and Trump, respectively, has a stronger moral character.

Thirteen percent say neither candidate possesses this trait.

I am in the 13% group, I like all three independents better than the two frontrunners for potus.

:sherlock: This guy knows exactly how I feel about our "choices".

:myday:
 

His_Highness

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
I'm not tracking to the popular vote. I'm tracking to the electoral college. Last I looked HRC had pretty insurmountable lead on the electoral count but I'm going to wait till midway through the coming week before I start looking at the electoral's again. I want to give the new FBI announcement some time to bake in.

Somebody else said it before in this thread it but it bares repeating......can you imagine the shit storm that will erupt if Trump wins the popular vote and HRC wins the electoral?!?!? Buy up some butane, charge all your battery operated vapes/batteries on Nov. 7th!
 

grokit

well-worn member
Somebody else said it before in this thread it but it bares repeating......can you imagine the shit storm that will erupt if Trump wins the popular vote and HRC wins the electoral?!?!?
That would be me, that's still my prediction :|

:brow: Another prediction, which I predict will be 100% accurate:

:disgust: No matter who wins this %*&@# election,
we're gonna have a serial groper (back?) in the white house.


bct2.jpg

(edited to "tone it down")


:myday:
 
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cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Somebody else said it before in this thread it but it bares repeating......can you imagine the shit storm that will erupt if Trump wins the popular vote and HRC wins the electoral?!?!? Buy up some butane, charge all your battery operated vapes/batteries on Nov. 7th!
No offense, but I find that a seriously laughable concern. If there are any believers, the betting window is back open...

On another topic, it is looking like Comey clearly violated the Hatch Act, and will likely have diffuculty keeping his job. That is too bad, as he is something of a hero to me for refusing to let Gonzales coerce Ashcroft into approving illegal activity when he was very ill in a hospital bed during the Bush administration...
 
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