Ah, that would definitely contribute to instant clouds. Awesome.
So here you go, everyone else look away, bc me and YungLearner seem to be a very similar type of caaraaaazy 
well put despite the length! Now I know why you tagged me at the end, just my style lol Totally with you bud, let me know if this helps, I will try to explain how it "works" and compare that with some other touch points (also its actually more than 10 owners now too btw, and way more have used it as Krazy said 
):
Sorry man, posted that before ibsaw you're post, then tried tonedit but it was too long!
So in essence, there is a stainless steel heater with a fairly massive surface area (this is part of where the patent comes in) which uses mica as an insulator (first it was glass in alpha units, but that proved too much of a heat sink for low temps, more reliant on heat soaking to really get going unless maxed out). Part of what happened in that 3 month delay to perfect said heater, is the other part of the heater patent, it is now constructed in a specific way or shape to better vortex airflow through the heater and in turn through the herbs, providing a much more even extraction (the beta heaters could get away without any stirring too, but the production heaters can do this much more consistently). I do not have my Grasshopper yet, but I know it is supposed to have its own vortex airpath allowing hit air to swirl through the load as well.
Anyway this large steel mass will climb in temp 0-500F in seconds when the trigger is pressed, it can actually keep climbing as it is an open loop device, but it will start to plateau, climbing at a slower rate than it did at the start, much like the Firefly as detailed in its little graph that it comes with. This is also similar to how the Thermovapes would heat when the batteries make contact, and the way Milaana works direct off the battery as well. Where Zion is different, is its computer chip and potentiometer which allow for voltage regulation similar to a log with a vvps, however here the best way to think about it is that the knob adjusts the rate the heater climbs in temp. It also sets a limit for the plateau, so if you are at 25% it is extremely difficult to combust, but not necessarily impossible if you push it by holding the trigger for an excessive amount of time (at that level would probably be over a minute, and no longer than 30sec is advised in the manual). The way it climbs in temp allows the heater to keep up with any draw really, it does not need to recover temp like a log or Evo after a hit, but like Evo it really doesn't seem possible to outdraw it during a hit.
The way you load and draw is glass stems much like a log, used UD basket style or E-Nano adjust-a-bowl style, but they use an 18mm US joint GonG connection instead of glass to steel (or glass in a HIbrid) so they sit in securely. When the trigger is pressed, you will be drawing from the glass straw, air will enter the hole in the wood at the bottom and travel right through the steel mass heater (which may or may not be sheethed in glass, unsure on final design there) in some sort of vortex, through the steel heater screen at the bottom of the 18mm female bowl, and then the herb loaded in the stem. To produce optimal smooth tasty cloudy vapor, it helps to start slow and build turbulence (like a Daisy and its carb) through the load as the heater is climbing in temp and then increase your draw speed along with the heater, letting go of the button as you feel the vapor in your throat (or even seeing it in the long glass tube) and continuing to draw to pull residual heat and clear the hit. Used in this manner it is very pure convection, and as such the first hit can be more tasty wispy before becoming a fog machine, but this also depends on where the knob is set of course, along with inhalation and herbal variables. It doesn't have a fan or precise temp control, so it is still very manual pure convection despite the regulation (Milaana is even more manual)
When hits are taken back to back, the steel mass becomes more heat soaked so temp rises more quickly at the same dial setting. This is why many do a quick preheat of 5sec at max temp to get things going before lowering the dial down low (or wherever they want it) and then beginning their session. Of course it can be used on demand at any %, but you may need to draw slower at first or even preheat a few seconds without drawing depending where you are on the knob. The knob also works very well for temp stepping, though some level of that can be controlled with a user's draw and the trigger as well. With back to back hits, particularly at a high %, there can be some slight conduction to the glass chamber, similar to the Evo you described, even in the Firefly and logs sometimes. This can also help prevent the need to stir, and allow the Zion the vape pretty much any herb not matter how poor the quality. For me it could actually reveal a strain with poor taste and/or effects, it always seemed to produce solid vapor regardless, but it made me more of a snob for quality as well (Firefly and Evo can do this as well, but I find the Zion more effective at it personally, have not tried an Herbalizer, but Elevape is also very good at this, just has more quirks otherwise).
This is why I like to describe Zion as the MFLSV. It's simple style and on demand nature, coupled with the voltage control knob and pure convection power from a large heater and strong power source. For me it outperformed the LSV in speed and control, plus even extraction now with that vortex in the production heater, ofcourse it is far more portable as well, nowhere near as stealth as the MFLB, but worlds more powerful than that obviously. Similar to Evo it somehow excels with hydratubes, and can milk up a bong or bubbler easily, but I also use it dry mostly as that is the goal for any portable. That is also how Zion and Milaana were designed to be used, and they do it exceedingly well.
Manual convection vapes aren't for everybody (clearly neither is pre ordering), but in my experience they often provide the greatest reward, getting you as close to combustion as possible at any temperature. Even a low temp hit in Zion or Daisy can provide a more full bodied signature than a similar hit from an automatic vape like Evo in my opinion (one shared by a few friends who used Triihouse to fuckcombustion themselves). There are ofcourse pros and cons to each, and that is part of why many of us have such vast collections, but when it comes down to it, vapes like Daisy/Lily and Zion/Milaana are exactly what I think vaping should be, judging purely on performance, the end result of each hit or session, whatever you wish to get out of it... But the competition is getting fierce and I still have more to try of course!
over&out
![:\](/i/s/hmm.gif "Hmm :\")
and so I am able to patiently wait for my Milaana.
Sorry man, posted that before i saw you're post, then tried to edit but it was too long!
So in essence, there is a stainless steel heater with a fairly massive surface area (this is part of where the patent comes in) which uses mica as an insulator (first it was glass in alpha units, but that proved too much of a heat sink for low temps, more reliant on heat soaking to really get going unless maxed out). Part of what happened in that 3 month delay to perfect said heater, is the other part of the heater patent, it is now constructed in a specific way or shape to better vortex airflow through the heater and in turn through the herbs, providing a much more even extraction (the beta heaters could get away without any stirring too, but the production heaters can do this much more consistently). I do not have my Grasshopper yet, but I know it is supposed to have its own vortex airpath allowing hot air to swirl through the load as well (I think its heater is two cones)
Anyway this large steel mass will climb in temp 0-500F in seconds when the trigger is pressed, it can actually keep climbing as it is an open loop device, but it will start to plateau, climbing at a slower rate than it did at the start, much like the Firefly as detailed in its little graph that it comes with. This is also similar to how the Thermovapes would heat when the batteries make contact, and the way Milaana works direct off the battery as well. Where Zion is different, is its computer chip and potentiometer which allow for voltage regulation similar to a log with a vvps, however here the best way to think about it is that the knob adjusts the rate the heater climbs in temp. It also sets a limit for the plateau, so if you are at 25% it is extremely difficult to combust, but not necessarily impossible if you push it by holding the trigger for an excessive amount of time (at that level would probably be over a minute, and no longer than 30sec is advised in the manual). The way it climbs in temp allows the heater to keep up with any draw really, it does not need to recover temp like a log or Evo after a hit, but like Evo it really doesn't seem possible to outdraw it during a hit.
The way you load and draw is glass stems much like a log, used UD basket style or E-Nano adjust-a-bowl style, but they use an 18mm US joint GonG connection instead of glass to steel (or glass in a HIbrid) so they sit in securely. When the trigger is pressed, you will be drawing from the glass straw, air will enter the hole in the wood at the bottom and travel right through the steel mass heater (which may or may not be sheethed in glass, unsure on final design there) in some sort of vortex, through the steel heater screen at the bottom of the 18mm female bowl, and then the herb loaded in the stem. To produce optimal smooth tasty cloudy vapor, it helps to start slow and build turbulence (like a Daisy and its carb) through the load as the heater is climbing in temp and then increase your draw speed along with the heater, letting go of the button as you feel the vapor in your throat (or even seeing it in the long glass tube) and continuing to draw to pull residual heat and clear the hit. Used in this manner it is very pure convection, and as such the first hit can be more tasty wispy before becoming a fog machine, but this also depends on where the knob is set of course, along with inhalation and herbal variables. It doesn't have a fan or precise temp control, so it is still very manual pure convection despite the regulation (Milaana is even more manual)
When hits are taken back to back, the steel mass becomes more heat soaked so temp rises more quickly at the same dial setting. This is why many do a quick preheat of 5sec at max temp to get things going before lowering the dial down low (or wherever they want it) and then beginning their session. Of course it can be used on demand at any %, but you may need to draw slower at first or even preheat a few seconds without drawing depending where you are on the knob. The knob also works very well for temp stepping, though some level of that can be controlled with a user's draw and the trigger as well. With back to back hits, particularly at a high %, there can be some slight conduction to the glass chamber, similar to the Evo you described, even in the Firefly and logs sometimes. This can also help prevent the need to stir, and allow the Zion the vape pretty much any herb not matter how poor the quality. For me it could actually reveal a strain with poor taste and/or effects, it always seemed to produce solid vapor regardless, but it made me more of a snob for quality as well (Firefly and Evo can do this as well, but I find the Zion more effective at it personally, have not tried an Herbalizer, but Elevape is also very good at this, just has more quirks otherwise).
This is why I like to describe Zion as the MFLSV. It's simple style of off the shelf parts with wood and on demand nature, along with the power control knob and wide open airflow, plus pure convection power from a large heater and strong power source. For me it outperformed the LSV in speed and control, plus even extraction now with that vortex in the production heater, ofcourse it is far more portable as well, nowhere near as stealth as the MFLB, but worlds more powerful than that obviously. Similar to Evo it somehow excels with hydratubes, and can milk up a bong or bubbler easily, but I also use it dry mostly as that is the goal for any portable. That is also how Zion and Milaana were designed to be used, and they do it exceedingly well.
Manual convection vapes aren't for everybody (clearly neither is pre ordering), but in my experience they often provide the greatest reward, getting you as close to combustion as possible at any temperature. Even a low temp hit in Zion or Daisy can provide a more full bodied signature than a similar hit from an automatic vape like Evo in my opinion (one shared by a few friends who used Triihouse to fuckcombustion themselves). There are ofcourse pros and cons to each, and that is part of why many of us have such vast collections, but when it comes down to it, vapes like Daisy/Lily and Zion/Milaana are exactly what I think vaping should be, judging purely on performance, the end result of each hit or session, whatever you wish to get out of it... But the competition is getting fierce and I still have more to try of course! This tech has been the closest thing to a vas cure for me, but as most of us know there is probably no cure
yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes
THANK you. I really was going nuts over here trying to piece together all the different bits of info I had learned from this thread to understand the Zion. If there's a Best Of thread, then I nominate this because for once I finally understand why everyone's head is spinning about this vaporizer. It's interesting, because even though you call it an MFLSV it sounds remarkably better than either of those vaporizers, neither of which I have had much patience for. It's also interesting to me that you find ease of dry hits to be the standard, because what excites me most about the Zion is easily inversion on my water pipes. I don't use an of my vapes dry unless I have to--I find that a low diffusion perc offers a ton in smoothness and size and ease of hit while taking away very little flavor. While it is technically manual, the Zion sounds very idiot proof in actual operation which is a big benefit to me. I like to tinker around a little bit, but for the most part I just want fat rips through a bubbler, as tasty as possible.
To be honest, that explanation makes me think that this whole Zion/Milaana confusion could have been avoided if the Zion was priced higher. Top of the line products can suffer in sales when they aren't priced as such, which is kind of a bizarre facet of economic supply and demand theory. It sounds like the kind of thing I would save up 300$ for, and even though I'm not patient enough for a pre-order I'll probably become such a fan once it becomes available through retailers that people will be bashing me on Reddit as well.
Thanks again, really a service to the community. Peace & Love, I'll stop writing essays now. As always, it's been real
(but look at these walls of text, did I not fucking earn it?! )
As the Zion progressed, as you should know, the heater increased in size until a perfect size to air ratio was formed. I believe the air hole is positioned to cause turbulence like the GH has. Thru trial and error, progressing to the Mica Insulation, proved to be a huge leap for vapor signature quality.
Somehow I missed that there was another page of posts before I replied, so I hadn't seen the detailed reply from @Shit Snacks. Nice summary of what has been posted earlier!
You said you've read the entire thread. All of your questions here and in your previous post have been answered in this thread, most of them by me. Many of them have been answered multiple times by several of the beta testers. Perhaps all you need to do is refresh your memory.
I disagree here. I believe the Zion is one of the easiest to master. There is a lot of power but it is easily controlled. It is not easy to reach combustion even with the power knob set to full. The heating curve rises sharply in the first few seconds and then levels off, rising much more slowly. The power knob determines where the curve bends, indirectly controlling the temperature. Because the heating curve flattens significantly, even a novice can pick up on changes in the vapour stream that signal combustion is near.
Edit:
You said you've read the entire thread. All of your questions here and in your previous post have been answered in this thread, most of them by me. Many of them have been answered multiple times by several of the beta testers. Perhaps all you need to do is refresh your memory.
I disagree here. I believe the Zion is one of the easiest to master. There is a lot of power but it is easily controlled. It is not easy to reach combustion even with the power knob set to full. The heating curve rises sharply in the first few seconds and then levels off, rising much more slowly. The power knob determines where the curve bends, indirectly controlling the temperature. Because the heating curve flattens significantly, even a novice can pick up on changes in the vapour stream that signal combustion is near.
Edit:
Few are questioning the vape itself, we're aware of the potential. Most are just upset at how "slow" (subjective) it's progressing.
Sorry man, posted that before i saw you're post, then tried to edit but it was too long!
So in essence, there is a stainless steel heater with a fairly massive surface area (this is part of where the patent comes in) which uses mica as an insulator (first it was glass in alpha units, but that proved too much of a heat sink for low temps, more reliant on heat soaking to really get going unless maxed out). Part of what happened in that 3 month delay to perfect said heater, is the other part of the heater patent, it is now constructed in a specific way or shape to better vortex airflow through the heater and in turn through the herbs, providing a much more even extraction (the beta heaters could get away without any stirring too, but the production heaters can do this much more consistently). I do not have my Grasshopper yet, but I know it is supposed to have its own vortex airpath allowing hot air to swirl through the load as well (I think its heater is two cones)
Anyway this large steel mass will climb in temp 0-500F in seconds when the trigger is pressed, it can actually keep climbing as it is an open loop device, but it will start to plateau, climbing at a slower rate than it did at the start, much like the Firefly as detailed in its little graph that it comes with. This is also similar to how the Thermovapes would heat when the batteries make contact, and the way Milaana works direct off the battery as well. Where Zion is different, is its computer chip and potentiometer which allow for voltage regulation similar to a log with a vvps, however here the best way to think about it is that the knob adjusts the rate the heater climbs in temp. It also sets a limit for the plateau, so if you are at 25% it is extremely difficult to combust, but not necessarily impossible if you push it by holding the trigger for an excessive amount of time (at that level would probably be over a minute, and no longer than 30sec is advised in the manual). The way it climbs in temp allows the heater to keep up with any draw really, it does not need to recover temp like a log or Evo after a hit, but like Evo it really doesn't seem possible to outdraw it during a hit.
The way you load and draw is glass stems much like a log, used UD basket style or E-Nano adjust-a-bowl style, but they use an 18mm US joint GonG connection instead of glass to steel (or glass in a HIbrid) so they sit in securely. When the trigger is pressed, you will be drawing from the glass straw, air will enter the hole in the wood at the bottom and travel right through the steel mass heater (which may or may not be sheethed in glass, unsure on final design there) in some sort of vortex, through the steel heater screen at the bottom of the 18mm female bowl, and then the herb loaded in the stem. To produce optimal smooth tasty cloudy vapor, it helps to start slow and build turbulence (like a Daisy and its carb) through the load as the heater is climbing in temp and then increase your draw speed along with the heater, letting go of the button as you feel the vapor in your throat (or even seeing it in the long glass tube) and continuing to draw to pull residual heat and clear the hit. Used in this manner it is very pure convection, and as such the first hit can be more tasty wispy before becoming a fog machine, but this also depends on where the knob is set of course, along with inhalation and herbal variables. It doesn't have a fan or precise temp control, so it is still very manual pure convection despite the regulation (Milaana is even more manual)
When hits are taken back to back, the steel mass becomes more heat soaked so temp rises more quickly at the same dial setting. This is why many do a quick preheat of 5sec at max temp to get things going before lowering the dial down low (or wherever they want it) and then beginning their session. Of course it can be used on demand at any %, but you may need to draw slower at first or even preheat a few seconds without drawing depending where you are on the knob. The knob also works very well for temp stepping, though some level of that can be controlled with a user's draw and the trigger as well. With back to back hits, particularly at a high %, there can be some slight conduction to the glass chamber, similar to the Evo you described, even in the Firefly and logs sometimes. This can also help prevent the need to stir, and allow the Zion the vape pretty much any herb not matter how poor the quality. For me it could actually reveal a strain with poor taste and/or effects, it always seemed to produce solid vapor regardless, but it made me more of a snob for quality as well (Firefly and Evo can do this as well, but I find the Zion more effective at it personally, have not tried an Herbalizer, but Elevape is also very good at this, just has more quirks otherwise).
This is why I like to describe Zion as the MFLSV. It's simple style of off the shelf parts with wood and on demand nature, along with the power control knob and wide open airflow, plus pure convection power from a large heater and strong power source. For me it outperformed the LSV in speed and control, plus even extraction now with that vortex in the production heater, ofcourse it is far more portable as well, nowhere near as stealth as the MFLB, but worlds more powerful than that obviously. Similar to Evo it somehow excels with hydratubes, and can milk up a bong or bubbler easily, but I also use it dry mostly as that is the goal for any portable. That is also how Zion and Milaana were designed to be used, and they do it exceedingly well.
Manual convection vapes aren't for everybody (clearly neither is pre ordering), but in my experience they often provide the greatest reward, getting you as close to combustion as possible at any temperature. Even a low temp hit in Zion or Daisy can provide a more full bodied signature than a similar hit from an automatic vape like Evo in my opinion (one shared by a few friends who used Triihouse to fuckcombustion themselves). There are ofcourse pros and cons to each, and that is part of why many of us have such vast collections, but when it comes down to it, vapes like Daisy/Lily and Zion/Milaana are exactly what I think vaping should be, judging purely on performance, the end result of each hit or session, whatever you wish to get out of it... But the competition is getting fierce and I still have more to try of course! This tech has been the closest thing to a vas cure for me, but as most of us know there is probably no cure
Possible customers aren't even able to order currently.
Negative, captain..
Interesting. Maybe RBT might consider testing the demand for the Zion with a 420 sale price on the Zion? Say, allow the retailers a sufficient margin (or other incentive) to drop the price by $42.00 (420) and see how that impacts demand, as well as word of mouth advertising on Zion performance.
Just a thought...
.
Voltage control does sound cooler than dimmer. I think the end result is the same, a fraction of the power is going to the heater. One of us is saying tomato
Are there smarts to prevent the voltage from going too low to protect the batteries?
