Discontinued Zion vaporizer

[delloy]

Im getting a bit fed up about it to be honest, the lack of info is atrocious. RBT you'd think would at least keep people informed on a regular basis. Surely this cant be doing the company name any good at all, customer service is the worst Ive ever known from a new company. Problem is I so want this thing it makes it that much more infuriating!

 

[slatihe]

Yeah.... An update would be grate.

Have to say, while I usually hate "big" vapes... It's pretty sweet how it is it's own self contained kit. Just grab it and go!

Can honestly say I'm really looking forward to the dimmer switch, would realy cut down on the number of "guest combustion events"... It's a real drag, always having to stop and clean everything.
Don't really need a volt-meter my self... Honestly the light would probably dive me bat crap crazy. Thinking Mighty here, like dang I've used it as flashlight before. So yes please, I'd love a Zion. Id's like a Mighty Milaana style.

What are guys disappointed in specially the hopper? Been using it instead of the milaana a lot lately, mostly because guests can't create any more combustion events... But also it's super convenient. Batteries charge up in flash (externally). Super easy to load... hits like a log, one back end (other one isn't quite right).

Just don't like how restricted it is, how easy the clip scratches the body, and it can be a real pain to unload some times. Would also vape better with shorter chamber, but it works very well IME

It isn't really supposed to be a desk top replacement nor group session vape any way.

. Zion here yet?

 

[Shit Snacks]

I think those of us who haven't used the Zion believe that regulation will also regulate temperature - however, I don't think that's the case. Regulating voltage means the heater heats up slower but is still capable of getting well into combustion territory?

It would be cool if the knob could control max temp and it's just my opinion but that would make it more of a "flagship" product. Obviously it would require a lot more electronics -> more chance for breakage

Yeah I mean it kinda can, there are spots on the dial where combustion is essentially impossible, it can work for a sort of temp control, but yeah it's not, it's voltage power control, but it does work quite well

@slatihe guests seem to detest Hopper body heat and vapor harshness. Yeah with Milaana some people don't het enough and others scorch, it can take practice. I had other vapes that were better for these situations, but I sold them bc i didn't enjoy them as much myself, and group use opportunities were few and far between. Milaana can be great with one or two other people, but it depends the people

As I understand it this really has been on full pause, transparency would just be no progress bc of lack of time/funds or whatever... Still worth the wait imo but yeah who likes waiting

 

[ZC]

It's really more of a difference between regulation and no regulation. It isnt temp control, it's voltage control. So each hit is more predictable on the zion than the MI.

Because as your batteries deplete your voltage stays the same. Unlike the mi where the more hits you take the more time you have to press the button to keep the same temps.

Imo a manual vape doesn't need and shouldnt have temp control, because then it isnt actually manual. If you want to set a specific temp there are other vapes for that. If you want very flexible on the fly manual control the RBT vapes are perfect.

 

[KeroZen]

Imo a manual vape doesn't need and shouldnt have temp control

I beg to differ here. I think both are compatible (cf FF2) We could have a trigger coupled with a temperature limiter, this way no matter how long you press the trigger and how fast or slow you draw, you'd get hot air delivered at the right temperature with absolutely zero risk of combusting.

But Ryan isn't interested in that, it's not KISS compatible, so we won't see it in the Zion anytime soon.

 

[ZC]

I dunno, that doesn't sound like a manual vape to me. You have to go in and change settings to get a different temp instead of changing the temp yourself with technique. Nothing manual about it.

Granted I haven't tried one myself but that explanation doesn't sound manual at all.

 

[grokit]

I just want the zion that I paid for, that others have been so satisfied with no more no less

 

[little maggie]

I just want the zion that I paid for, that others have been so satisfied with no more no less

How long are you willing to wait? Ever think of getting a refund?

 

[ragnorokk]

Been using my Zion over the GH dry. GH milks a bubbler nicely, but I only really tried for funsies -- I'm more likely to use portable vapes dry, and Zion kills in standard mode. I never got my WT method down for the Zion because I just can't bring myself to care -- like my Daisy, it's just that good dry.

 

[slatihe]

Yes the hopper is very nich. It's intended to be ran though water.

The milaana is almost a desktop replacement. Problem is, IME, it's just real pain to teach newbs. They always combust. The Zion would solve this by giving them some "training" wheels to learn on.

While yes lowering the voltage supplied to the heating element isn't exactly the same as temperature control, it does perform that function... It lowers the entire curve. Will lower the heats ceiling (where the curve levels out and becomes very straight) and also decreases the rate at which the element heats up too that ceiling.... So yes decreasing a haters supplied power does reduce temp... But no it's not exactly temp control, nor regulation, nor does it come with temp display. And none of that is actually needed nor functionally important at all, or the cloud xhail evo, non digital volcano, enano, etc would all be considered junk instead of iconic... No?

Hopper obviously doesn't have that problem, but also obviously can't Zion. neither... It's grate for what it's intended though, now if my second one would just heat up as hot as the first one! Any way, the only point to the hopper drop was simply to point out it DOES Have temp regulation and will never combust on my guests as just can't quite get that hot.

The Milaana can also be putting out much hotter vape with the short stem IMO... So I would assume Zion could as well... Problem solved with longer stem, wooden stem, or bent stem, w.e. Grasshopper can be solved with a piece silicone whip tubing...I'm sure aftermarket mouthpieces will come out too.

So yeah... What ever. They are very different... Just have the same almost instant on convection feature. Wasn't really trying to go too deep into comparisons here. Sorry.



Really really want that Zion. Just waiting on it and TOD. Thinking TOD was scrapped...

 

[upriver]

Yep been about a year now since I pre-ordered. Still hanging tight, though the lack of updates and reports of poor customer service really are a bummer. This thread had such a positive vibe early on and now it is bit of a downer. My main motivation at this point is to keep the project funded; hopefully if enough people remain on board the Zion will finally emerge. A flood of refunds is just going to inhibit or cancel the thing. Can any of you in touch with RBT please express the good-natured intention of desire for updates? Even "Sorry guys, I won't be able to even think about this for 6 months" would be soooooo much better than the radio silence. I've loaned this stranger two hundred bucks for a year and have nothing to show for it. A sentence here or there about what is going on would go a long way towards feeling good about it all.

 

[Shit Snacks]

Yes the hopper is very nich. It's intended to be ran though water.

The milaana is almost a desktop replacement. Problem is, IME, it's just real pain to teach newbs. They always combust. The Zion would solve this by giving them some "training" wheels to learn on.

While yes lowering the voltage supplied to the heating element isn't exactly the same as temperature control, it does perform that function... It lowers the entire curve. Will lower the heats ceiling (where the curve levels out and becomes very straight) and also decreases the rate at which the element heats up too that ceiling.... So yes decreasing a haters supplied power does reduce temp... But no it's not exactly temp control, nor regulation, nor does it come with temp display. And none of that is actually needed nor functionally important at all, or the cloud xhail evo, non digital volcano, enano, etc would all be considered junk instead of iconic... No?

Hopper obviously doesn't have that problem, but also obviously can't Zion. neither... It's grate for what it's intended though, now if my second one would just heat up as hot as the first one! Any way, the only point to the hopper drop was simply to point out it DOES Have temp regulation and will never combust on my guests as just can't quite get that hot.

The Milaana can also be putting out much hotter vape with the short stem IMO... So I would assume Zion could as well... Problem solved with longer stem, wooden stem, or bent stem, w.e. Grasshopper can be solved with a piece silicone whip tubing...I'm sure aftermarket mouthpieces will come out too.

So yeah... What ever. They are very different... Just have the same almost instant on convection feature. Wasn't really trying to go too deep into comparisons here. Sorry.



Really really want that Zion. Just waiting on it and TOD. Thinking TOD was scrapped...

Yeah I mean, I find Milaana to be worlds smoother vapor than grasshopper, but it can depend on technique. With Zion, the power control definitely keeps things smoother, low on the dial you don't even feel the vapor sometimes bit exhale a massive cloud. So yeah in this way you will be happy, someday...

Yep been about a year now since I pre-ordered. Still hanging tight, though the lack of updates and reports of poor customer service really are a bummer. This thread had such a positive vibe early on and now it is bit of a downer. My main motivation at this point is to keep the project funded; hopefully if enough people remain on board the Zion will finally emerge. A flood of refunds is just going to inhibit or cancel the thing. Can any of you in touch with RBT please express the good-natured intention of desire for updates? Even "Sorry guys, I won't be able to even think about this for 6 months" would be soooooo much better than the radio silence. I've loaned this stranger two hundred bucks for a year and have nothing to show for it. A sentence here or there about what is going on would go a long way towards feeling good about it all.

A refund just means you won't get a Zion, at that price anyway, and may wait even longer if you do still want it. It simply means less will be made I think. I agree it's a shame, but that's what his silence indicates, what you said, no progress and no time to do so yet. Unfortunately that is just the way it is now, the more interactive style bit him back too many times I suppose and ruined it for everyone else. I still say it's worth waiting for, however log that turns out to be, at the early pre order pricing even moreso, but I recommended those other vapes above as a distraction bc who knows how long we still have to wait anymore

 

[cybrguy]

It would be cool if the knob could control max temp and it's just my opinion but that would make it more of a "flagship" product. Obviously it would require a lot more electronics -> more chance for breakage

In effect this is what it already does. Unless I am looking for some flavor hits, I just have Venus set at a power level that gives me good clouds with no chance of combustion. At that setting I can finish a bowl (of just under .1g) in about 4 big (long) hits.

 

[ragnorokk]

Yes the hopper is very nich. It's intended to be ran though water.

The milaana is almost a desktop replacement. Problem is, IME, it's just real pain to teach newbs. They always combust. The Zion would solve this by giving them some "training" wheels to learn on.

While yes lowering the voltage supplied to the heating element isn't exactly the same as temperature control, it does perform that function... It lowers the entire curve. Will lower the heats ceiling (where the curve levels out and becomes very straight) and also decreases the rate at which the element heats up too that ceiling.... So yes decreasing a haters supplied power does reduce temp... But no it's not exactly temp control, nor regulation, nor does it come with temp display. And none of that is actually needed nor functionally important at all, or the cloud xhail evo, non digital volcano, enano, etc would all be considered junk instead of iconic... No?

Hopper obviously doesn't have that problem, but also obviously can't Zion. neither... It's grate for what it's intended though, now if my second one would just heat up as hot as the first one! Any way, the only point to the hopper drop was simply to point out it DOES Have temp regulation and will never combust on my guests as just can't quite get that hot.

The Milaana can also be putting out much hotter vape with the short stem IMO... So I would assume Zion could as well... Problem solved with longer stem, wooden stem, or bent stem, w.e. Grasshopper can be solved with a piece silicone whip tubing...I'm sure aftermarket mouthpieces will come out too.

So yeah... What ever. They are very different... Just have the same almost instant on convection feature. Wasn't really trying to go too deep into comparisons here. Sorry.



Really really want that Zion. Just waiting on it and TOD. Thinking TOD was scrapped...

Fwiw, I have found the Zion's standard stem to be a good compromise between immediate feedback and vapor cooling.

I definitely have seen my room mate torch a load in my Zion, so I guess there can be more learning curve than I personally experienced.

 

[cybrguy]

Oh no doubt, it is certainly possible to combust in Zion. It is just easier to make sure you never do. If you couldn't combust it would be useless for concentrates and way less able to ring the last goodness from your product. It is also possible that over time Zion may lose some oomph, and that extra range may be useful.

I have described this before but Zion has about 230º of turn in its power knob, and my standard setting is about 160º to 170º. At that setting I can ring most of the goodness out of most strains without any fear of combustion. That leaves me with another 60º or so of additional power if I need it.

(These are radial degrees, not temperature)

 

[aphidii]

Well it's been a very long and interesting journey but I'm out. Requested a refund today, will likely put the money into a FW4 when they launch instead.

Hopefully Zion gets going at some point, it would still be a perfect vape for me but I really can't wait no longer.

Peace all!

 

[hweezi]

... Why not ask for a Mi and some change, you'd still get it for $129*.

I really doubt the FW4 will be able to out produce the Milaana.

You wouldn't have to wait that's for sure.

 

[cannabis.pro]

... Why not ask for a Mi and some change, you'd still get it for $129*.

I really doubt the FW4 will be able to out produce the Milaana.

You wouldn't have to wait that's for sure.

+1

 

[IAmKrazy2]

I would have to agree, that after buying the FW3 i doubt the FW4 eill outproduce the Mi.

 

[Edric al-Fali]

Without getting too far off topic, this is my experience with both the FW3 and the Milaana. If you need a vape now, why not get the Milaana.

With regards to the FW vs Milaana, your bowl size is the dominating factor. The Milaana is too big for what is a normal batch in the Firewood; the hot air just passes it by. Ideally filled/packed, I can get equal vapor from both of them, but the Milaana is definitely going to last longer because of the bowl size. It feels more efficient overall.

Quality begins to suffer with the Firewood when I have too much in it, where quality begins to suffer in the Milaana if I use too little.

The Milaana mouthpiece and bowl have never gotten too hot to touch and I think has only gotten as hot as the hottest part of the wood. The Firewood capsule gets very very hot, you can burn yourself easily and isn't as easy to stir or replace because it is a hot capsule.

Because it is a capsule, the Firewood is less likely to tip or spill and can rest on its side. In fact, my biggest complaint about the Milaana is the round bottom combined with the top heavy/loose sitting stem. I already broke the glass seat around the heater. I need to send it in for repairs.

 

[Shit Snacks]

Without getting too far off topic, this is my experience with both the FW3 and the Milaana. If you need a vape now, why not get the Milaana.

With regards to the FW vs Milaana, your bowl size is the dominating factor. The Milaana is too big for what is a normal batch in the Firewood; the hot air just passes it by. Ideally filled/packed, can get equal vapor from both of them, but the Milaana is definitely going to last longer because of the bowl size. It feels more efficient overall.

Quality begins to suffer with the Firewood when I have too much in it, where quality begins to suffer in the Milaana if I use too little.

The Milaana mouthpiece and bowl have never gotten too hot to touch and I think has only gotten as hot as the hottest part of the wood. The Firewood capsule gets very very hot, you can burn yourself easily and isn't as easy to stir or replace because it is a hot capsule.

The firewood is less likely to tip or spill, however. In fact, my biggest complaint about the Milaana is the round bottom combined with the top heavy/loose sitting stem. I already broke the glass seat around the heater. I need to send it in for repairs.

How tiny must the FW bowl be? I can throw a tiny amount in a Mi stem basket style, just enough to cover the screen, and it works perfectly fine. May need to hold trigger a bit longer than typical but it seems to work well with any amount in my experience.

But yeah lol this is so off topic, yet it's the Zion thread so who cares, I started it before

 

[Edric al-Fali]

Since the Milaana bowl is the same as the Zion, it seems reasonably on topic.

It's a pretty small bowl. Maybe 10 mm wide and 20 mm deep inside (it's in my car so I can't measure it). A medium pack in a FW is enough to cover the screen in the Milaana and Zion. Don't get me wrong, a large pack in a FW is a medium one in the Milaana.
The width of the Milaana and Zion stem is wide and I end up getting mostly hot air. Enough to cover the screen gets me a good pack, but your "one hitters" are out of the question.
For me the experience is similar to the difference between a one hitter to a regular bowl.

 

[aphidii]

... Why not ask for a Mi and some change, you'd still get it for $129*.

I really doubt the FW4 will be able to out produce the Milaana.

You wouldn't have to wait that's for sure.

I thought long and hard about it, it mostly comes down to the temp control for me. I was really looking forward to a set and mostly forget on the Zion.

The strength of the heater isn't as big a concern to me as I have found the grasshopper heater is plenty strong enough for my use/tolerance or if I want a big rip through water.

I'm a super lazy vaper and while my Lotus is amazing I feel now like I just want something to hold my hand especially when I'm utterly blitzed. And having an instant heat sipper like the fw I think will be nice.

Still keen on Zion, but for the future

 

[Shit Snacks]

Since the Milaana bowl is the same as the Zion, it seems reasonably on topic.

It's a pretty small bowl. Maybe 10 mm wide and 20 mm deep inside (it's in my car so I can't measure it). A medium pack in a FW is enough to cover the screen in the Milaana and Zion. Don't get me wrong, a large pack in a FW is a medium one in the Milaana.
The width of the Milaana and Zion stem is wide and I end up getting mostly hot air. Enough to cover the screen gets me a good pack, but your "one hitters" are out of the question.
For me the experience is similar to the difference between a one hitter to a regular bowl.

Yeah they're not true one hitters, need bubbler to do that. You are talking basket screen too? Bowls definitely wider stock style, to make sure now air gets by the herb it may be best to tamp more for an especially tiny load. It makes sense though since UD and HI use narrower bowls that are definitely smaller than Mi/Zion too, I guess FW is more like that though it's a capsule...

But yeah Mi bowl and Zi bowl is fair to compare, I just meant since we're also comparing to FW, and the fact its not even really Zion, makes it especially off topic. But no worries not playing police, as I said, anything goes here, like the old upcoming GH thread of yor

 

[ZC]

I never do small loads without a 14mm reducer or without my wood/glass stem from Alan. Much, much more efficient with a smaller diameter stem and screen to match the smaller amount of material.