stickstones
Vapor concierge
SM, can you elaborate on this? How long is the window for improvements to be made? I'll bet this hasn't been determined yet, but what's your feel?stonemonkey55 said:
Discontinued VRIPtech Heating Wand
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My "feel" on this, and I haven't really discussed this with Mark in depth but design wise, we are pretty much set but one area that we want to improve is heater failure.
I think that if you ask anyone that has been a Vriptech customer in the past is that they/we are very fair with the way we handle customer issues. Being that pretty much everything he sells is glass based, he replaces all broken shipments and anything that failed under "normal" use (meaning you didn't drop it, or applied to much force when pushing down the VHW into the VCB)
Don't mean this to sound corny but Mark really does this for the love of the culture. After a couple of weeks working with him, I gave him my plan for increasing revenue for Vriptech and making it scale and grow. He thanked me for my efforts but said that he would rather keep it low key where we would still know most, if not all, of our customers on a first hand basis and keep more of a family feel, than a corporate feel.
Obviously we still need to turn some sort of profit considering the time and effort put in, but profit is definitely not the only driver. Being able to share this vapor experience with others is also very rewarding. Every positive (and even the negative) experience that I read brings a lot of joy to me and is an awesome break from my daily grind. So long answer to a simple question, but to summarize in a nutshell, if there is any major upgrade to the technology of the VHW, we will take care of all the early adopters, no specified amount of time, but basically we do what we can to produce win/win situations.
I think that if you ask anyone that has been a Vriptech customer in the past is that they/we are very fair with the way we handle customer issues. Being that pretty much everything he sells is glass based, he replaces all broken shipments and anything that failed under "normal" use (meaning you didn't drop it, or applied to much force when pushing down the VHW into the VCB)
Don't mean this to sound corny but Mark really does this for the love of the culture. After a couple of weeks working with him, I gave him my plan for increasing revenue for Vriptech and making it scale and grow. He thanked me for my efforts but said that he would rather keep it low key where we would still know most, if not all, of our customers on a first hand basis and keep more of a family feel, than a corporate feel.
Obviously we still need to turn some sort of profit considering the time and effort put in, but profit is definitely not the only driver. Being able to share this vapor experience with others is also very rewarding. Every positive (and even the negative) experience that I read brings a lot of joy to me and is an awesome break from my daily grind. So long answer to a simple question, but to summarize in a nutshell, if there is any major upgrade to the technology of the VHW, we will take care of all the early adopters, no specified amount of time, but basically we do what we can to produce win/win situations.
Progress
'Socratic Existentialist, MD'
Some initial problems are to be expected (hopefully less so over time). It seems funny to me that most of the 5 out of the 100 who have had problems wound up posting their problems here on FC.
Also, I agree that it is important/beneficial to conduct sufficient testing prior to releasing a product and prior to shipping each tool.
I agree and mentioned the same thing about the ergonomics of the wand (more subtly alluding o the soldering iron similarities)
Sounds like a cool feature, but not sure about practicality/feasibility issues (plus additional potential for issues with moving parts). It does seem that many (some?) have had issues (complaints about not getting hot enough, etc.) which are likely to stem (IMO) from how close the tip of the VHW gets to the herb chamber due to silicone placement, etc (plenty of heat IME).
IMO/E, Vrip Tech has a reputation of being fair and striving to provide quality customer service (although I am sure that you could still find someone somewhere with some complaint).
SM, are you officially part of the Vrip Tech team ("they/we are very fair...") or still just volunteering your assistance pro-bono(r
) for personal reasons (just curious...)? Insight from consumers (IMO) is definitely important to the development of technology
(please keep sharing).I hope that any initial issues with the VHW get ironed out, as it (IMO) has a great potential to contribute something novel and valuable to the aromatherapy, vaporization, and phyto-inhalation field.
Well the vapor Gods must have been pleased; I got my stuff on Friday, only 7 business days to Ontario. So after a weekend of debauchery I can finally share some quick (first) impressions on this thing sm5's had us drooling over since Halloween. 
The whole all-glass-experience was a big factor for me and taking the first icy hit brought back the memory of hitting my first all glass bong as a kid. Kind of a special feeling... I'm sure many of you can relate. Something about removing everything from the equation except glass and your herb, and maybe some ice. Verrrrry tasty!
Visually the wand is pretty cool looking, I tried to take some pictures to show what's going on with the glass heater covers; pretty intricate stuff. Functionally it seems fairly solid considering the outer cover is held on by a single screw. That said, there is some movement on that pivot and I found myself holding the wand by bottom of the glass to avoid it.
One of the things I was concerned about was an airtight seal between all the parts. I found it achievable, but maybe not as easy/consistent as it could be.
I really like the lab style shape of the pro water tool... makes me feel like I'm a scientist doing important research. The ice catch is certainly different and seems to work well. Very minor niggles side it seems like a solid piece and a good deal for the money. My only real concern is the non standard GonG joint; for a large diameter downstem it seems a bit short (see pic beside standard 14mm) for stability/long term durability. There seems to be a little wiggle room. Performance wise though it's pretty kick ass!
Back to the VHW. I've always been a supporter of vaping at the lower temp ranges and keeping the vapor as fresh as possible. So far though, I'm disappointed at how light the vapor I'm capable of getting is. I can hit a bowl forever at max and it never gets much more than lightly browned-- much lighter than PD remains. I've tried all kinds of different draw speeds, water levels, temps, herb, etc. That's not to say I wasn't extremely Vripped?, again, light vapor is more potent than people think. But let's just say, if I was to place an entry in CD's skim milk shot competition it would be pretty embarrassing.
Admittedly I'm still basically a noob with this thing, so I'm not ruling out user error, but I never had a problem with the VG or SSV or PD, which all require a little je ne sais quoi. And hitting a bong should be pretty damn easy no? In fact, for the last part of the weekend I was using the PD with the beaker and milking some really thick clouds in there no problem.
Maybe my wand just isn't getting hot enough. It sounds like there has been some variance from wand to wand, and of course this is to be expected with a "beta" product. Plugging it in from a cold start the element glows orange for about 20 seconds before dimming while the led does some sequence of flashes. Would be cool to hear more about what kind of controller the wand has.
Anyway... pics!
The whole all-glass-experience was a big factor for me and taking the first icy hit brought back the memory of hitting my first all glass bong as a kid. Kind of a special feeling... I'm sure many of you can relate. Something about removing everything from the equation except glass and your herb, and maybe some ice. Verrrrry tasty!
Visually the wand is pretty cool looking, I tried to take some pictures to show what's going on with the glass heater covers; pretty intricate stuff. Functionally it seems fairly solid considering the outer cover is held on by a single screw. That said, there is some movement on that pivot and I found myself holding the wand by bottom of the glass to avoid it.
One of the things I was concerned about was an airtight seal between all the parts. I found it achievable, but maybe not as easy/consistent as it could be.
I really like the lab style shape of the pro water tool... makes me feel like I'm a scientist doing important research. The ice catch is certainly different and seems to work well. Very minor niggles side it seems like a solid piece and a good deal for the money. My only real concern is the non standard GonG joint; for a large diameter downstem it seems a bit short (see pic beside standard 14mm) for stability/long term durability. There seems to be a little wiggle room. Performance wise though it's pretty kick ass!
Back to the VHW. I've always been a supporter of vaping at the lower temp ranges and keeping the vapor as fresh as possible. So far though, I'm disappointed at how light the vapor I'm capable of getting is. I can hit a bowl forever at max and it never gets much more than lightly browned-- much lighter than PD remains. I've tried all kinds of different draw speeds, water levels, temps, herb, etc. That's not to say I wasn't extremely Vripped?, again, light vapor is more potent than people think. But let's just say, if I was to place an entry in CD's skim milk shot competition it would be pretty embarrassing.
Admittedly I'm still basically a noob with this thing, so I'm not ruling out user error, but I never had a problem with the VG or SSV or PD, which all require a little je ne sais quoi. And hitting a bong should be pretty damn easy no? In fact, for the last part of the weekend I was using the PD with the beaker and milking some really thick clouds in there no problem.
Maybe my wand just isn't getting hot enough. It sounds like there has been some variance from wand to wand, and of course this is to be expected with a "beta" product. Plugging it in from a cold start the element glows orange for about 20 seconds before dimming while the led does some sequence of flashes. Would be cool to hear more about what kind of controller the wand has.
Anyway... pics!
Progress - I'm still working pro-bono but I feel like I get compensated fairly with emails from happy customers and being first in line to play with Mark's new toys. As Vriptech tries to re-grow and if the workload consistently increases then we will cross that bridge at that time, but for the time being, its still fun and all the feedback (positive and negative) has been a great learning experience.
Vtac - A few people have complained about heater temperature and Mark is doing his best to address this. I have included a pic below of three different strains that have been vaped at max temperature for a total of 4-6 pulls. I took this ABV and ran it through my heat gun to see at what temperature would the ABV begin producing vapor again. I was in the 550 range before I began seeing vapor released again. Your particular unit defintely does not seem like it is getting hot enough because at max setting, the herbs should be pretty much dead after 5 pulls or so. The simple remedy to most of these whispy vapor inquiries have been due to short heat up times. If you are still getting whispy vapors after a solid 10 minute heat up time, we will have to swap out your unit.
Vtac - A few people have complained about heater temperature and Mark is doing his best to address this. I have included a pic below of three different strains that have been vaped at max temperature for a total of 4-6 pulls. I took this ABV and ran it through my heat gun to see at what temperature would the ABV begin producing vapor again. I was in the 550 range before I began seeing vapor released again. Your particular unit defintely does not seem like it is getting hot enough because at max setting, the herbs should be pretty much dead after 5 pulls or so. The simple remedy to most of these whispy vapor inquiries have been due to short heat up times. If you are still getting whispy vapors after a solid 10 minute heat up time, we will have to swap out your unit.
Thanks Vtact , yes as you said , the gong is not standard LOL ... this is a good old trick to be sure that people wont use other bowl . I was also scare about the the to low temp of the wand ,cause with that type of vap , I would like to get like 2-3 fat rip (like smokking out of a bong) and get all the herb vap . I dont understand why vap maker dont make it to get an optimal vaporization at the half of the dimmer , this way if you preffer higher temp you can (as for hash or extract ) btw the bong look pretty nice !
All good points CD, I am having a meeting with Mark to address these issues. Can someone point me in the direction of an article that shows the different temps that cannabanoids are released and at what point are more toxic vapors released? At max temp on the VHW, it is roughly the equivalent of a Steinel heat gun around 550 degrees, sounds like Vtac's unit is well below that.
Also, on the non standard GG joint length, it was not designed to be a proprietary design as other 18.8 gg joints will fit in there. Most glass blowers purchase 18.8 gg joints and weld them on but blower that makes the VRIP pieces actually makes his own joints. The reason he makes them shorter is so that when the gg lower bowls are introduced, it will be easier to carb it and less "sticky" to the waterpipe.
fine !! if I can give you a good advice , dont look at the heater direct temp. , look at the heat release by the wand once it is pre-heat , cause I think this is the probleme with a lot of unit .If the wand combust at the max temp ,this is not a problem ,it can be really help full with solid hash cause the mass does'nt react to heat the same way that the herb do .
Here's an article with the temps www.montananorml.org/docs/McPartland-Russo-JCANT-2001.pdf
Hazy - thank you! That is very useful!
One last thing - spoke with Mark this morning. He was wondering how much herb you guys have been packing into the lower bowl? He recommends filling it at least 3/4 full, I just load mine up to the rim. Let me know if this helps resolve any issues.
The Vriptech aftersell service is right here at your service. Not sure if I'm doing the best job, but I'm trying my best!
One last thing - spoke with Mark this morning. He was wondering how much herb you guys have been packing into the lower bowl? He recommends filling it at least 3/4 full, I just load mine up to the rim. Let me know if this helps resolve any issues.
The Vriptech aftersell service is right here at your service. Not sure if I'm doing the best job, but I'm trying my best!
I know this goes without saying but this might help you get thicker vapors. Instead of pushing the VHW as deep into the VCB as possible, position the silicone in a manner where it goes into the lip on the upper intake and makes the tightest seal possible. To do this, you might give up a little distance from the tip of the VHW to the lower bowl but I think the airtight seal pays dividends
I did this just now and took some rips at about 2/3 power and got very visible vapors . I'm also keeping the VHW mated to the VCB (not removing and carbing after every hit) continously while I take inhales. I'm not sure if these tips will help but I figure if you want to mimic the vapor I was getting, might as well follow my routine. Another thing to keep in mind is the lighting in the room, look for areas where the sun shines through and you can see the dust particles in the air or just blow into a light.
I did this just now and took some rips at about 2/3 power and got very visible vapors . I'm also keeping the VHW mated to the VCB (not removing and carbing after every hit) continously while I take inhales. I'm not sure if these tips will help but I figure if you want to mimic the vapor I was getting, might as well follow my routine. Another thing to keep in mind is the lighting in the room, look for areas where the sun shines through and you can see the dust particles in the air or just blow into a light.
SpiralArchitect
? & beyond
Glad it arrived vtac! That was pretty 'early', no? 
Last few times I used the VHW I just used the lower bowlpiece and mated the VHW to it. Operating at a little bit over half on the dial gave me perfect vapor, and cranking it up to max put it in the 'near combustion range'. I really think the only flaw of this vaporizer is the intake. That curve adds too much distance from the heating element from the herbs, in effect, too much air in the heat/air ratio hitting the herbs, this is why isn't not making those thick, thick hits some of us are wanting.
For example, the distance from the heating element to the herbs on my VW is a few centimeters, where it is almost a full inch on the VHW. I can literally milk my bong pure white on a medium-high setting... no 'smoky taste', no combustion....
I've made my sentiments aware to sm55 and if you're reading this now, I'll respond to your email later today. Thanks for keeping in such good contact with us all and taking our 
I think this is a good vaporizer, in fact, I could say it's great, but a few minor changes/adaptions could make it fucking awesome.
I know Mark, and others, are all for the 'low heat' when vaporizing (it probably is the most health conscious, efficient and 'beneficial' way to vape) , but I think the biggest appeal this vaporizer has is to bong users, obviously, and frankly, the last thing those people want is wispy vapor -- give them customer the choice between creating a mild mist or a fuck-me-up-fog -- after all, isn't vaporizing about personal preference?
CD does make a good point about hash though, it does react differently than the herb. I think giving the user more control and options in their temperature range would ultimately increase users enjoyment, as well as allowing personal experimentation (who doesn't love that? ).
(if you notice any typos, I was in a rush, will come back and edit later)
Have you tried varying your draw speed? //edit, doh, haha, duh It's almost counter-intuitive with this vaporizer.... (a steady draw produces the best vapor for me, but I agree, it is rather wispy, or light).vtac said:
Even full to the brim (overflowing) I still can't whitewall my bong.sm55 said:
Last few times I used the VHW I just used the lower bowlpiece and mated the VHW to it. Operating at a little bit over half on the dial gave me perfect vapor, and cranking it up to max put it in the 'near combustion range'. I really think the only flaw of this vaporizer is the intake. That curve adds too much distance from the heating element from the herbs, in effect, too much air in the heat/air ratio hitting the herbs, this is why isn't not making those thick, thick hits some of us are wanting.
For example, the distance from the heating element to the herbs on my VW is a few centimeters, where it is almost a full inch on the VHW. I can literally milk my bong pure white on a medium-high setting... no 'smoky taste', no combustion....I've made my sentiments aware to sm55 and if you're reading this now, I'll respond to your email later today.
Thanks for keeping in such good contact with us all and taking our I think this is a good vaporizer, in fact, I could say it's great, but a few minor changes/adaptions could make it fucking awesome. I know Mark, and others, are all for the 'low heat' when vaporizing (it probably is the most health conscious, efficient and 'beneficial' way to vape) , but I think the biggest appeal this vaporizer has is to bong users, obviously, and frankly, the last thing those people want is wispy vapor -- give them customer the choice between creating a mild mist or a fuck-me-up-fog -- after all, isn't vaporizing about personal preference?
CD does make a good point about hash though, it does react differently than the herb. I think giving the user more control and options in their temperature range would ultimately increase users enjoyment, as well as allowing personal experimentation (who doesn't love that?
).(if you notice any typos, I was in a rush, will come back and edit later)
KeepCalm
Reindeer, reindeer, reindeer
Hey guys, FWIW I can get very thick vapors with my homemade SSV/Hakko heat wand. It seems this thing just isn't getting hot enough.
This is vapor from a .15 bowl, and my ABV is never darker than a light yellow-brown:
Also, I hope I'm not hurting anyone's feelings, but I think the VHW bowl interface is overdesigned. Look at how simple mine is, and it works great. I think the bowl needs a serious redesign with simplicity in mind. Here's another pic from my thread:
I hope this is taken as helpful and not criticism.
This is vapor from a .15 bowl, and my ABV is never darker than a light yellow-brown:
Also, I hope I'm not hurting anyone's feelings, but I think the VHW bowl interface is overdesigned. Look at how simple mine is, and it works great. I think the bowl needs a serious redesign with simplicity in mind. Here's another pic from my thread:
I hope this is taken as helpful and not criticism.
SpiralArchitect
? & beyond
Agreed, KC. And yes, that is helpful.
I think the vaporizer gets plenty hot however. The added air volume in the 'heating chamber' is created from the distance from the element to the herbs, this is what isn't giving us those thick rips.
I had actually sent this to sm55 in an email about what would be, in my eyes, an optimal 2 piece bowl design (the advantages of 2 piece ; easy loading, cleaning and screen changing). Not to mention modular pieces reduces the risk of breaking your bowl and being out of commission (order extra tops)... figure some of ya'll might like to see... notice the GONG version, hehe.
And just to be fair, I really hope people aren't getting the wrong impression from the VHW:
Thick hits are achievable with a big bowl, patience and good technique. We all gotta remember this is, in essence, the 'beta' release of the vaporizer. I think it's great Mark got these out now to a variety of vaporists to get input on finalizing the product.
Hennessy1414
Terrorist
cool guys thanks for all the input! 
Progress
'Socratic Existentialist, MD'
Busy day yesterday, but just got a chance to read a few comments about VHW problems. I feel it has a STEEP learning curve due to all of the factors the user has control over (which could optimize the individuals experience or inhibit it). However, I also feel that, when used 'correctly' (many ways to use it 'correctly' do exist IMO/E) the VHW functions VERY well as is (that it not to say that I believe that there are no alterations to the design that could make the VHW...better?...more user friendly?...more durable?...more comfortable/ergonomic?... ). I have some potential insights for those experiencing problems (and agree with SM that a problem may be that the seal of the VHW/silicone sleeve and the VCB isn't tight enough when the sleeve it slides up the VHW (via pressure of the hand pushing the VHW into the VCB) enough to have the glass touch (preventing a good seal with the silicone). I also agree that leaving the wand on the VCB allows hot air to build in the (fairly open-ended) body of the VHW, enhancing its performance significantly (maybe glue a tall large shot glass to a plate--for stability--and place the VHW in the shotglass with the silicone sealed to build/retain hot air if desired). I wish that I could just give general pointers that would help everyone use their VHWs 'best', however, (IMO) definitions of 'best' and variables for user error with the VHW are too diverse and unknown to even begin (hopefully the fucker-chat, VHW-performance-problem support groups should help provide struggling owners with an opportunity to share tips that may enhance the performance of the VHW. The meeting times of the fucker-chat, VHW-performance-problem support group and its participants has yet to be determined (feel free to check in the combustion 'fucker-chat' room for details )
Hope this helps .
Toke it easy (but if you do not have a tight seal, that may not work )
edit: SV, IMO/E the Herbo and the VHW can both give off thick clouds of tasty vapor if used 'correctly'. The difference IMO/E is that the herbo is much easier to use (especially out of the box) while the VHW has much more manual control (a camera analogy may help some)
The meeting times of the fucker-chat, VHW-performance-problem support group and its participants has yet to be determined (feel free to check in the combustion 'fucker-chat' room for details )Hope this helps
.Toke it easy (but if you do not have a tight seal, that may not work
)edit: SV, IMO/E the Herbo and the VHW can both give off thick clouds of tasty vapor if used 'correctly'. The difference IMO/E is that the herbo is much easier to use (especially out of the box) while the VHW has much more manual control (a camera analogy may help some)
Hey guys, Mark and I had a meeting of the minds yesterday and we are going to see what we can do to effectively raise the temperature of the VHW. With that said, he asked that I relay a message to you guys as well. While there is no "right" way to vaporize, we feel that there is a "right" way to vaporize in the healthiest manner. The Vriptech system was originally made strictly for Mark and his athlete friends, so obviously, his personal experience has always been vaping at temps around 390 where we could enjoy the medicine and not get any of the "bad stuff". I believe Benzine is released at temperatures just slightly higher than 390 and against a Steinel heat gun, the VHW produces comparable vapor and AVB at about 565 degrees farenheit. At 390, I would say it takes you anywhere from 12-15 hits to thoroughly extract the majority of vapor from a bowl, it sounds like most people on this forum want to get the same extraction in less than 4 hits.
On a side note, with pretty much everyone agreeing that the SSV is a better whip than the Extreme, now I wonder if its because the Extreme had a limiter on the high end of their temperature controller or if the SSV really was that much more "efficient" - as a previous owner of both, my hunch is the former...
This experience has opened up my eyes to another community of vaporists. Thus far, IME, the vaporists that I have met have all been extremely low temperature vaporists. I thought the higher temp vaping was for those that didn't know how to work a vaporizer or those that were just trying to mimic smoking as closely as possible. Now I understand that there are plenty of people here that understand the benefits of vaping at temperatures that are optimized for your health, but at the same time, this same group doesn't mind vaping at higher temperatures. In Marks own words, "The best vaporizer is the one that you actually use" and if raising the effective temp on the VHW is what it takes, then we will look into those alternatives.
Thanks again for your patience and your feedback, it is all very valuable. I'm not saying that high temp vaping is "wrong" but if you grew up with analog vapes, it would be hard for you to get an idea of how 390 degree vapor looks like versus 540 degree vapor. I understand that the heat coming out of the heatgun, versus the heat that actually touches passes through your herb are different numbers (same reason why Arizer moved their heat sensor so many times) but it still gives you a strong understanding of "this is how vapor looks like at ___ degrees" versus just being left on your own with an analog dial to tune in the best vapor for your liking. With all that said, as much as Vriptech would like to keep pushing people towards "healthy, low temp vaping", we also understand that people have different tendencies and high temp vaping is still better than combustion.
SA - thanks for those drawings and stay tuned
On a side note, with pretty much everyone agreeing that the SSV is a better whip than the Extreme, now I wonder if its because the Extreme had a limiter on the high end of their temperature controller or if the SSV really was that much more "efficient" - as a previous owner of both, my hunch is the former...
This experience has opened up my eyes to another community of vaporists. Thus far, IME, the vaporists that I have met have all been extremely low temperature vaporists. I thought the higher temp vaping was for those that didn't know how to work a vaporizer or those that were just trying to mimic smoking as closely as possible. Now I understand that there are plenty of people here that understand the benefits of vaping at temperatures that are optimized for your health, but at the same time, this same group doesn't mind vaping at higher temperatures. In Marks own words, "The best vaporizer is the one that you actually use" and if raising the effective temp on the VHW is what it takes, then we will look into those alternatives.
Thanks again for your patience and your feedback, it is all very valuable. I'm not saying that high temp vaping is "wrong" but if you grew up with analog vapes, it would be hard for you to get an idea of how 390 degree vapor looks like versus 540 degree vapor. I understand that the heat coming out of the heatgun, versus the heat that actually touches passes through your herb are different numbers (same reason why Arizer moved their heat sensor so many times) but it still gives you a strong understanding of "this is how vapor looks like at ___ degrees" versus just being left on your own with an analog dial to tune in the best vapor for your liking. With all that said, as much as Vriptech would like to keep pushing people towards "healthy, low temp vaping", we also understand that people have different tendencies and high temp vaping is still better than combustion.
SA - thanks for those drawings and stay tuned
KeepCalm
Reindeer, reindeer, reindeer
I judge by my ABV, and I wouldn't consider myself a "high temperature" vapor user by any means. My ABV is mostly yellowish with some green. That said, any adjustable temperature vaporizer should be pushing combustion at the higher range of adjustment. Helps when using solids, etc.
max
Out to lunch
I can't say I agree with your assumption, as far as "most people on this forum". Quite a few of us on the forum primarily use a vape, the PD, that doesn't even get up to 390. I think if you rephrased it to say 'most people on this thread', you may still get an argument, but at least you'd be in the ballpark.
Also having used both designs, my opinion is that the SSV gets the edge simply because you get a higher vapor to air ratio with it. Although I do sometimes use the SSV at higher temps, there's a noticeable difference in the high temp vapor-it's much harsher. The high temp vapor also becomes very thick, and I think that may be what you're saying, as far as seeing thick vapor in the glass.
A lot of people consider 390 to be high temp. In the study that shows Benzene at 392, it states "Significant amounts of benzene began to appear at temperatures of 200 C. (392 F)", while 365 provides a full dose of THC, "while completely eliminating three measured toxins", one of which is Benzene. I'd have to assume that Benzene and its associated toxins actually start kicking in just above 365, increasing to "significant amounts" at 392. You're not going to go from clean at 390, to "significant amounts" just two degrees higher. If someone wants really 'clean' vapor, they would try to stay much closer to 365 than 390. As for 540 degree vapor, I understand you're not referring to that number as actual vaping temp, but I have a problem with the term "540 degree vapor", since that number is bound to stick in someone's head and end up getting passed on as a true vaping temp. My big complaint with Arizer is the temp display issue, made even worse by moving the sensor twice. He did the vaping community no favors as far as understanding true vaping temps.
Hey Stonemonkey, so are you saying what a heatgun can do at 390,the vhw has to hit 540 degrees but like stated below its not the actual temp unlike the heatgun. But what are the vhw settings from lowest on the dial, to middle, to all the way up? Has anyone measured with a candy thermometer or infrared?
My apologies, I could always rephrase better. I merely meant that I see a preference of taking less tokes than more tokes to extract the goodness out of the herbs. I'm not here to accuse or generalize how people vape, I'm just here to see if my definition of "thick, tasty vapors" is the same as other people's definitions.
Exactly, I think because the Extreme has a limit on its high temp, the whispier vapor that was produced was not as attractive as the thicker vapor from the SSV. If its because teh SSV is more efficient, I'd like to try and figure out why, hot air at the same temp passed through the same amount of herb should net the same amount of vapors right? Everything in the Extreme seemed fairly airtight where no vapor could dissipate before reaching your lungs which is why I think the lack of thick vapor was due more in part to the heat limiter that the Extreme has in place than the SSV being more efficient at vapor extraction.
Totally agreed with you here. My point wasn't so much to argue at what point toxins are released in vaping, but moreso, what temp are we even vaping at currently? I do not own a candy thermometer nor an infrared light so the best way I could compare and contrast was to use my Steinel heat gun for comparisons. I don't think this is the "best" way for testing, but I do think its gives you some baseline of where you begin. When I used the heat gun, I usually vaped at 360-370, and when I wanted something thicker, maybe high 300's/low 400's. While the PD itself doesn't get above 390, the ABV from it looks very similar to the AVB from the heat gun at 575+ degrees. I chalked this up to the PD invoking both convenction and conduction priniples for vaping.
I'm not here to try and cause confusion with my 540 temp remark ( apologize if I have), but I have been scratching my head trying to figure out why people are getting whispy vapors out of their VHWs. Doing the side by side test with the Steinel heat gun was my best way to try and compare apples to apples. What I was doing was taking AVB from my VHW and PD and running it through a heat gun to see when visible vapors would start appearing. The AVB from the VHW at max setting began showing vapors at about 550 and the AVB from the PD began showing vapors in the high 500's. The AVB from my VHW at 2/3 setting, began showing vapor at about 490. While I'm not saying this is an accurate way to measure the heat, it did give me some numbers to play with.
If anyone has a better (but still economical way) to measure temp where the shredded herbs are located, I'm down to do more testing. Anyhow, as I stated earlier, I'm not here to say anyone's way of doing this is the wrong way, I'm just tyring to better understand what our customers like in order to keep them happy, even if it goes against the way I personally vape. Its all a great learning experience and I'm happy to see that most people have been patient as these kinks are worked out