Volcano Hybrid

[8alex8]

I'm so disapointed.

I've long been thinking about buying a volcano. I was hesitating because it was for use only with bag. So the Hybrid Volcano cames out, it was the best of both worlds.

After watching the reviews and everything, I was ready to buy one this week, until I found this forum, just in time, and saw the plastic burning issue. I think they should seriously communicate something quick, here's why :

- Health issues
- They are already loosing sales. I don't have statistic in front of me, but in my case, they lost a sale and I don't think I'm alone. Vapeshops are probably already thinking about not recommanding this product.
- Quality control reputation : Making sure no plastic melt or get too hot is a health, safety and disgusting concern. It should be the top first priority to be sure nothing melt or burn during quality control. This one was also highly predictable. Be honest, how many of you have tought plastic could get too hot and melt but then just convinced themself that it has been tested and everything should be ok? And, if they missed that part, how can I trust them on minor issues such as display or bluetooth failing? That may sound extrem, but at 700 $USD, the trust I had with the reputation of the original volcano, that have a 10+ years lifespan was a big selling point ! At least, what conviced me to pay such a high price.

I hope Storz and Bickel will make a statement as soon as possible telling us there is no health issue at all and that the chamber will be upgraded soon. This statement should be public. Otherwise, I may never buy anything from them.

 

[WakeVape&Bake]

I'm so disapointed.

I've long been thinking about buying a volcano. I was hesitating because it was for use only with bag. So the Hybrid Volcano cames out, it was the best of both worlds.

After watching the reviews and everything, I was ready to buy one this week, until I found this forum, just in time, and saw the plastic burning issue. I think they should seriously communicate something quick, here's why :

- Health issues
- They are already loosing sales. I don't have statistic in front of me, but in my case, they lost a sale and I don't think I'm alone. Vapeshops are probably already thinking about not recommanding this product.
- Quality control reputation : Making sure no plastic melt or get too hot is a health, safety and disgusting concern. It should be the top first priority to be sure nothing melt or burn during quality control. This one was also highly predictable. Be honest, how many of you have tought plastic could get too hot and melt but then just convinced themself that it has been tested and everything should be ok? And, if they missed that part, how can I trust them on minor issues such as display or bluetooth failing? That may sound extrem, but at 700 $USD, the trust I had with the reputation of the original volcano, that have a 10+ years lifespan was a big selling point ! At least, what conviced me to pay such a high price.

I hope Storz and Bickel will make a statement as soon as possible telling us there is no health issue at all and that the chamber will be upgraded soon. This statement should be public. Otherwise, I may never buy anything from them.

thing is, there are two issues going on: melting chambers and aluminium residue on the rings. they just updated the guidelines about possible health issues when not cleaning the ring everytime. i can´t see them going "ah well guys, no worries, all fine!" they would not have updated the guidelines on a freaking x-mas day if they themselves have no worries.

the ring on the Hybrid is also aluminium, even if there will be a new chamber i can imagine that you still have to wipe the ring on the Hybrid before every use. i don´t see them producing a new Hybrid with a stainless steel or titan ring.

so yeah, there are two issues, they haven´t said anything about those melting chambers at all and they are just sending replacements at the moment when someone mails them about it.

i could see them doing a statement in maybe 14-30 days, now we are between the years and i can´t imagine that they want to begin 2020 with an official statement. "Happy new year to all customers and btw: we have a big issue on our hands with the Hybrid"

in short: this will take some time till there is a statement and it will take even longer till a possibly revised chamber.

 

[david8613]

It's just crazy how these big companies can release something that has the possibility of affecting our health in such a negative way, most will not know the affects right away, medical problems might not be known until many years later. Look at what happened to all those people trying to help on that tragic day of 9/11. They were Inhaling all kinds of bad stuff and many died many years later. Look at Boeing having those problems with that 737 max plane and all those people died, they had the nerve to keep building and flying that death trap and then say nothing was wrong. Storz-bickel should stop selling this product NOW, pull from store shelves NOW, and tell everyone not to use it NOW until further notice. Do some dam testing on that wierd residue NOW, and test any fumes from the melting plastic to see whats in it NOW, and finally redesign the chamber period, and replace all of them asap and add a some store credit to all hybrid consumers for all this hassle. I'm so freaking sore about all this because I sold my perfectly working volcano classic and plenty that I thought I would never part with because they worked so well, I was happy. Biggest regret of 2019 for me, seriously. Sorry for venting so much but dam this situation really sucks. The hybrid was supposed to be the Bentley of desktops, this is a big bucks machine, its supposed to be top of the line, at this point it's not, I am extremely disappointed.

 

[ChooChooCharlie]

I have a different opinion

The two metal conduction ring surfaces in question touch when in use

Air follows default pathway of least resistance. Don't think flow can gather any particulates found on ring surface

I don't believe either fumes or dust will enter air path

However, if any retaining tabs are missing, the lower chamber will no longer be level, and will not make a good seal with upper

I'm no engineer. Just looked at how it fits together and thought about flow, but I may be mistaken

 

[david8613]

Nah, what happens when you open the chamber? Those particles will eventually fall into your herb, if you don't clean each time as advised by S&B, not good. I dont want to breath any melting plastic either, wether through vapor path or outside of unit. This is a very crappy situation. Until storz-bickel makes a very direct public statement that there is absolutley no health risk or danger what so ever to my lungs, i will not use mine. That metal dust and melting plastic is a health hazard in my opinion and will not be fixed with out a full redesign. I could expect this from some cheap chinese junk throw away vape, but not with the hybrid this is unacceptable! The hybrid is supposed to be the top of the line desktop vaporizer.

 

[ensabbahnur]

The demonizing statement comes from everyone jumping all over SnBs nuts, demanding they do ridiculous things in an unreasonable time frame, claiming they address only a small portion of their customers and excluding others.

Example was given of Boeing (i know it was for a different reason), lives were lost, a lot of them, and look how long it took for any actual, material reaction from Boeing, or the governments of the world, or the FAA....etc etc. Car manufacturers have had serious, SERIOUS issues that have necessitated various recalls over the years, yet how active are they in tracking owners down? Again, in some cases lives are at immediate stake in these examples, so I wouldn't really expect instant reaction from SnB on this, and thats not really a knock against them IMO. Should they address is? Obviously and absolutely, but the horse is definitely dead for the moment.

Whatever is going on in that posted Reddit pic, is OBVIOUSLY beyond the scope of what we are talking about here, there is simply NO WAY that person was using their unit as directed and all of the sudden he opened his chamber and saw THAT.....no F**king way. It appears as though he's trying to vape pills or something. Always take weird pics from the internet with a grain of salt, pics from Reddit or anything with Chan in its name should get 2 grains.

Also regarding SnB doing medical devices, from what I've always seen the medical devices have always been a totally separate monkey from the regular devices. Im not even going to begin to convince anyone of the differences between the devices but the only thing Id put money on is an "extended" "certification" (2 separate uses of air quotes there) process and perhaps some different materials, which would be weird due to them being the exact same price for a while......point being, unless your device says "medical" on the actual device, I wouldn't hang my hat on regular devices being medical to the point of extra liability.

After reading further into TUV, and what I already know about UL and CE, thinking that an item with a "certification" is inherently safer then one without it, is not really advisable. A company stating that breathing metal particles and melting plastic is 100% safe and healthy, also probably something to really consider before believing.

Im in no way a an apologist or shill for SnB nor am I saying there isn't SOMETHING going on, I have ALWAYS felt their prices and the way they market their devices has always been ridiculous......even if your ~$600 Volcano lasts 10+ years, you still have 10+ years of consumables required for its function......and the marketing shenanigans are touched on in the above paragraph about the medical "certification". Im typically very vocal about criticizing mediocrity in actions or products but I think SnB has earned a bit of time to respond, but I understand if people would rather have the echo chamber of escalating opinions of what should be done about it.

Im hopping out of this thread until SnB actually do something one way or another as I don't feel there is anything to be gained, whatsoever, until they do.

 

[WakeVape&Bake]

It's just crazy how these big companies can release something that has the possibility of affecting our health in such a negative way, most will not know the affects right away, medical problems might not be known until many years later. Look at what happened to all those people trying to help on that tragic day of 9/11. They were Inhaling all kinds of bad stuff and many died many years later. Look at Boeing having those problems with that 737 max plane and all those people died, they had the nerve to keep building and flying that death trap and then say nothing was wrong. Storz-bickel should stop selling this product NOW, pull from store shelves NOW, and tell everyone not to use it NOW until further notice. Do some dam testing on that wierd residue NOW, and test any fumes from the melting plastic to see whats in it NOW, and finally redesign the chamber period, and replace all of them asap and add a some store credit to all hybrid consumers for all this hassle. I'm so freaking sore about all this because I sold my perfectly working volcano classic and plenty that I thought I would never part with because they worked so well, I was happy. Biggest regret of 2019 for me, seriously. Sorry for venting so much but dam this situation really sucks. The hybrid was supposed to be the Bentley of desktops, this is a big bucks machine, its supposed to be top of the line, at this point it's not, I am extremely disappointed.

well, i would be fine if they provide the option to get the 600 bucks back, plain and easy.

like:
"we will be doing a recall program and everyone who is concerned can return the Hybrid to us and get their money back. if not you will get a redesigned chamber for free as soon as we have them manufactured and proved to be safe. sorry for the inconvenience, we fucked it up. "

that would be simple, easy and customer oriented. they should be easily able to swallow the costs and i would argue quite a few users wouldn´t want to return the device at all.

and reddit, yeah, reddit is a joke, now they are all celebrating their Arizer EQs as if this was some kind of safe device. just lol...there are a lot of people commenting on the issue...people who were never going to get a Hybrid and babbling nonsense about their other plastic vapes.

 

[elmomuzz]

Vaping is harm reduction. It’s not safe. Like filters in cigarettes or light cigarettes.

Vaping is still a vice that is bad for you. Rationalize that all you’d like.

 

[Pablopicasso]

This is what Storz&Bickel answered me by mail:
Dear Paolo,



Thank you for notifying us of your observations regarding wear of the metal on metal union at the filling chamber for the new Volcano HYBRID.



As we have only received a handful of customer complaints regarding this issue so far, we are investigating whether the problem is most prominent with certain production lots of HYBRIDs. We are currently tracking the lots in question, in order that we might investigate the matter fully, and as such we would kindly ask you to send us your VOLCANO HYBRID which you reported to have the issue so that we can analyze it.



As an immediate measure, we have prepared special handling and cleaning instructions for the VOLCANO HYBRID which you will find attached, and which will be added to the documentation sent out with every new unit. This information will also be made available on our website. By cleaning the Filling Chamber and the top of the heating element before every use, the chance of any dust, dirt or debris entering the output vapor should be minimized. Additionally, we have noted in these cleaning instructions, as well as in an update to our Instructions for Use (page 77), that the filling chamber should not be over-tightened when attaching it to the HYBRID, which could damage the device and introduce health risks to the user.



Furthermore, design changes to the Filling Chamber have already been initiated with R&D prototypes being tested later this week. There will be a notification as soon as a new version of the Filling Chamber is available.



If you need further service, we would ask you to set up a customer account under the following link:

https://www.storz-bickel.com


Please choose your country first before creating an account.

Once your account has been verified, you can register your device under "My Devices" and initiate a repair request.

Please contact us if you got further questions.



We hope this information is of assistance to you.



Kind regards,





Vertrieb / Sales



Any comment by my side it will be no useful and will send my volcano in.
I do this just for info and help and hope to everyone to vape safe...... peace
Just for info I'm in Spain.

EDIT:

My reply:

Good Morning

Vetrieb

First I would like to thank you for the quick response.
I believe in S&B product and I can understand that thinks in life some time get get hard and some mistake can be done.
Said that I will send you my Volcano asap just let me know best option to do so.
At the moment I'm posting at fuckcombustionb forum the content of this mail just for help with info and not giving any personal opinion because my luck of nolege of the facts so I prefer just to be informative and helpful.(there is peaple really worried about their health)
Wish to you and S&B all the best and to be back stronger than before.

Kind regards

Paolo

 

[WakeVape&Bake]

Vaping is harm reduction. It’s not safe. Like filters in cigarettes or light cigarettes.

Vaping is still a vice that is bad for you. Rationalize that all you’d like.

has nothing to do with the problems on hand but thanks for the input...melting chambers and/or metal dust are not common in other vaporizers. this has nothing to do that vaping is still bad for anyone...

there are surely safer materials than PEEK plastic

 

[elmomuzz]

I bet these issues are more common then you think with other popular vaporizers. You just have to look hard enough.

 

[david8613]

has nothing to do with the problems on hand but thanks for the input...melting chambers and/or metal dust are not common in other vaporizers. this has nothing to do that vaping is still bad for anyone...

there are surely safer materials than PEEK plastic

I agree 10000% this should not be happening, not from a company like storz-bickel who charge top dollar and claims to be medical safe. This issue with melting plastic has been around since the hybrid was released and they are only subtly talking about it now. They need to publically make a statement and also tell all of us here on FC what's going on, what they are going to do about it.

 

[elmomuzz]

It shouldn’t be happening and it’s being dealt with. Hopefully fast. No need to demonize a fine company like s&b.

 

[david8613]

Not demonizing, they have been too quiet about these problems, snuck in a change to manual in an email to puff it up with out a public statement is not cool. I just check the storz-bickel website I dont see anything addressing this with a warning to the public.

 

[Sensory Leaf]

The issue seems so widespread aswell, that I wonder what research and development was conducted on the hybrid.
And to your argument of issues being present in other vapes; most other vapes, don't command the premium cost. I don't mind paying top shelf money, but I expect a top shelf device

 

[Vaporooni]

has nothing to do with the problems on hand but thanks for the input...melting chambers and/or metal dust are not common in other vaporizers. this has nothing to do that vaping is still bad for anyone...

there are surely safer materials than PEEK plastic

No wonder the highest temp PEEK can handle is 338f (170c) . I fixed that problem by using the old EZ valve from my Classic Volcano. Now the orange housing stays cool. And the black upper housing stays even cooler. Also makes for a tighter seal on the metal chamber. You might need metal tongs to remove the bowl. I just leave the metal bowl on there the hole session at 350f to start. Also make sure the Hybrid is fully heated up before placing the herb filled bowl on there. This will keep the pump from spewing herb every where.

You can also keep the the plastic housing screwed together the whole time now. One less step of unscrewing the valve. The clouds are fuller and more robust. This is because the the herb chamber can be heat soaked, And not heat up the orange housing. With this method, I'm not scratching my heat ring.

 

[Apparition87]

I just got a giant ad on Facebook for the Volcano hybrid from december 24th lol.. They still are trying to push and sell this piece of shit as we speak! I am going to seriously look into legal action today.

 

[WakeVape&Bake]

It shouldn’t be happening and it’s being dealt with. Hopefully fast. No need to demonize a fine company like s&b.

this fine company dropped the ball big time on their newest iteration of an established product though. there is no demonizing but there is also no denying about the fact that this should have come up in R & D and before the release of the device, not when it is in the hands of the customer.

i don´t see that it is being dealt with other than updating some guidelines silently and not telling the users, it was the vape sellers telling this to the users and Troy from 420vapezone who made a public video about the mail he was getting from a reseller. there was nothing from S & B at all so far.

as i said, make a recall, give people the money back. that is how you gain trust now for example and not through people effectively having a 600bucks paperweight sitting in there homes without any infos when/if they can expect a solution. maybe they will do nothing at all and just want people wiping their aluminium rings everytime they are using it.

and if it is common in other devices or not as well is really irrelevant in this case.

 

[elmomuzz]

That video is 2 days old over Christmas. I really think you guys overreact. Give them time to respond.

 

[snamuh]

The issue seems so widespread aswell, that I wonder what research and development was conducted on the hybrid.
And to your argument of issues being present in other vapes; most other vapes, don't command the premium cost. I don't mind paying top shelf money, but I expect a top shelf device

This. I bought my hybrid out of blind faith like others have said. Its the "best" vape from the "best" company.

A lot of people get burnt by vaporizer companies. I got burnt by ff2. I opened the vape and was like wtf.... they said they did RnD. The thing clogs after 2 hits and the battery can't get through a single bowl after a month.

I feel like we are at a time where entrepreneurs are now able to enter the business with no care or knowledge. If we want real vapes we need to design them. Its just like Vape Critic was saying in his hybrid vid. Literally it shouldn't be hard. Crackheads have been making vape forever. A cleaned out $2 Lightbulb might be safer than my 700$ volcano.

People put way to much trust in companies (and gov.) these days. we can make a vape people. Lets just all build one.

This isn't demonizing anyone. Demonizing is what society did to stoners for 50 years that were just trying live and be happy. We told kids they were "lazy stoners" and led them down the path of thinking that about themselves.

 

[8alex8]

That video is 2 days old over Christmas. I really think you guys overreact. Give them time to respond.

I don't think it's overreacting. It's Christmas time, so a lot of people may think about buying a volcano at this time of the year, and they all should know about the plastic melting and aluminum dust cleaning issue. Most reviewer tell about how reliable the first Volcano was as a selling point for paying more for this. If Toyota lauched a new toyota corolla model and rust after 6 month, I would for sure concider buying another brand, since their main distinction, at least in people perception, that they last longer and have lest trouble than any other brand would be just gone.

This also doesn't sound like some random deffective units. It sounds like a design issue that affect all unit at some point.

That being said, it's just my personal opinion. I still think about buying it, because I still believe it could be an awesome device, but I will wait some time to see how things evolve in the next couple days or weeks.

 

[Apparition87]

Just got an email from herbalizestore.ca

I don't think this is enough I am still demanding a refund

Hi Mark

Thank you so much for the feedback.

We have been informed about this issue and decided to stop selling the Hybrid until S&B comes with a real solution.
( at the moment they have only updated their manual and instructions )

We will let all out Hybrid customers know how this issue will be resolved.

We are hoping S&B will replace the bad part asap and have the new part sent out for free to all customers.


We will let you know as soon as S&B has replied.

Expect a solution by early 2020.
If you have any questions please let me know



Kind Regards

Linda Mellow

Customer Support

 

[oddjobold]

S&B rip.

 

[silverharbinger]

Whatever is going on in that posted Reddit pic, is OBVIOUSLY beyond the scope of what we are talking about here, there is simply NO WAY that person was using their unit as directed and all of the sudden he opened his chamber and saw THAT.....no F**king way. It appears as though he's trying to vape pills or something. Always take weird pics from the internet with a grain of salt, pics from Reddit or anything with Chan in its name should get 2 grains.

If it's the same picture I'm thinking of I agree. You would think that if they charred one housing that badly they would try to adjust how they used the device going forward in order to avoid that, but they then managed to burn their replacement chambers up to a similar degree (AT LEAST) two more times. I couldn't say for sure that the image is crap, but it isn't uncommon to find people who are willing to stage all kinds of things because you can generate attention and ultimately make money doing that thanks to how social media works. The model provides an incentive to be dishonest, or do whatever else it takes to stand out, and that's a rabbit hole I'm going to leave at that.

Just to provide another weekly update my plastic housings are not showing any more signs of melting and minor charring since I started taking the metal chambers out of the plastic housing pretty much immediately after using it. I also did some checking on the heating element ring in the hybrid, and looked for metal dust on the chamber seat. If there was any metal dust there I couldn't find it, but I also clean the hybrid thoroughly with a strong vacuum nozzle about once a week, and clean the chambers regularly.

I don't know if that has anything to do with it, but since the first check, and checking periodically afterwards, the dampened cotton swab is coming back so clean that I am letting the swab dry out, and re-using it.

 

[WakeVape&Bake]

That video is 2 days old over Christmas. I really think you guys overreact. Give them time to respond.

people were sending them emails since the end of November because of the melting chambers, this new issue is entirely separate. they even linked the melting chambers to user error instead of taking this seriously. (besides that it is mindboggling that this device has a whip function and simultaneously it is stated to "not leave the chamber on the device for too long". it is contradictory in itself)

they themselves "responded" with some silently updated security guidelines on x-mas regarding this metal dust stuff- which is different from the melting chambers. there is absolutely no reason to give them the benefit of the doubt at this point.

not everyone frequents this forum, reddit or 420 vapezone on youtube and as a result they are left in the dark about any issues there might be. S & B should have sent emails to everyone who bought a Hybrid and not some vape stores/resellers. but it is good that there are stores caring that much about their customers, otherwise there would have been nothing regarding the updated guidelines over x-mas at all.